The Rise of Skywalker: Professional Reviews

@special_cases

*Blinks at numbers*

Now explain it to me like I'm five. (It says verified ratings in the 6000s... are you saying they aren't all legit ratings?)

@nickandnora RT ratings are now very tricky after they made changes in algorithm to prevent review bombing by negative scores. Their algorithm is less truthful than Metacritic because positive unverified reviews still can affect the final viewers score. It analyzes it from two angles "User decided that it's worth a watch" and "User decided that it isn't worth a watch". If someone decides to affect early audience reviews by positive scores, it's still possible, you just need tons of positive unverified reviews. The RT algoritm was changed to prevent only negative review bombing. That's why audience review is different from Metacritic. Right now only 20% of RT reviews are verified.

It's too early to say that TROS is the most liked by the audience movie of ST and PT. It will need 200k reviews to be reliable. Unlike critics score that won't change. But of course headlines already made, the audience love it and critics hate it! I don't believe that audience will hate it, no, but it won't be recieved better than whole PT, LOL.

The third screenshot is reviews for Knives Out , as an example, where are all reviews are 8000 and verified are 6000. So 80% at least were verified even if they still can be fake. It case of TROS only 20% of reviews are verified and unverified positive reviews still can affect the final score.

Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker is unadulterated fan service: https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/movies/new-movies/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-is-unadulterated-fan-service/news-story/33947a2a984414a2984035fd8caca54c

You want nostalgia? You got it. You want a black-and-white world view? You got it. Let there be no moral ambiguity in the universe. Or in any galaxy far, far away.

If you wanted something a little more nuanced, a little more visually spectacular, or even something that didn’t rely on so many deus ex machina moments you’ll lose count, then you’re sure to be disappointed.

Everything happens very quickly in this war against the no-longer-dead Emperor Palpatine (Ian McDiarmid) and his vision for a fascistic Final Order. Yes, even the name Final Order has about the same level of subtlety you’ll find elsewhere in this movie – and in case you don’t make the link, later on you’ll see Storm Troopers literally round people up.

Unfairly maligned character Rose Tico (Kelly Marie Tran) has also been sidelined, appearing in only a smattering of scenes, an unnecessary capitulation to rowdy fans.

The performances though are better than the movie they’re in, especially from Ridley and Adam Driver as Kylo Ren. They’re physically and emotionally demanding roles and both actors pulled it off, doing what they can. Just watch them twirl those lightsabers around, it’s mighty impressive.

Abrams said you couldn’t make a movie just for the fans, but that’s exactly what he’s done.

One fundamental mistake undermines Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Spoilery review): https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/movies/one-fundamental-mistake-undermines-star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker/news-story/500f22c4f9fecdd29ce189de314aa08d

The film is so bloated, so overblown, so stuffed with subplots and macguffins and blatant attempts at fan service that it suffocates its own story.

At its core, the entire Star Wars sequel trilogy is really about two people – Rey and Ben Solo. The other characters are peripheral.

Both are tortured souls, struggling desperately to come to terms with who they are. And despite being on opposite sides of the war, each ultimately helps the other conquer their internal demons.

That story is fascinating, and it shines through superbly in Rise of Skywalker’s quieter scenes, the standout being Ben’s imagined conversation with the father he murdered.

Adam Driver and Daisy Ridley both deliver amazing, visceral, emotional performances.

But there are so few of those scenes, and they pass so quickly. We never have any time to dwell on the great character moments, or even properly digest them, because the film immediately races off to yet another loud, generic action sequence.

On the other side, the Resistance – which couldn’t muster a single ally to help it at the end of The Last Jedi – suddenly manages to rustle up a humungous fleet, dwarfing anything we’ve seen from the good guys before, in about half an hour.

The rough outline is something like this. Having lost the Battle of Endor, Palpatine retreated into unknown space, allowing his Empire to crumble. Then he quietly oversaw the creation of the First Order. For some reason, he also created Snoke to head the organisation, and sent him to reconquer the galaxy.

At the same time, Palpatine was secretly building an even bigger force on Exogol – the Sith fleet – which he called the Final Order. It’s unclear why he needed this entirely separate fleet if he was in control of the First Order the whole time.

I know supervillains love to cook up needlessly complex plans, but at least the ones in Bond films explain their reasoning. This one genuinely makes no sense.

Ultimately, Palpatine himself doesn’t really add much to the film either, beyond covering off some backstory. He just does his usual thing – talk a lot in a sinister tone of voice, then shoot some lightning out of his fingers.

You know how he tried to goad Luke into killing him by saying his friends were dying? It didn’t work for the Emperor last time, but gosh darn it, he’s going to try the exact same strategy all over again.

Another moment involving Luke sticks out even more horribly. Rey goes to throw her lighstaber into the fire, and he appears out of nowhere to catch it.

It’s a clear reference to, and arguably a clear dig at, Luke tossing the saber away at the start of The Last Jedi.

And it is symbolic of a film that seems to go out of its way to repudiate and wind back everything Rian Johnson did.

I know, I know. A lot of fans hated The Last Jedi, and Disney wanted an easy win this time. But at least that film tried to do something interesting and thought-provoking. It drove Star Wars forward, instead of recycling the same tropes we’d been watching for decades.

Every moment spent on fan service – looking back to the past of Star Wars – is a moment only half-spent in the present.

So far Rise of Skywalker is one of the worst reviewed Star Wars films ever. I don’t think that’s fair.

It easily surpasses any of the prequels, with their wooden acting, over-reliance on poor CGI, sudden swings in characterisations and laughably bad dialogue.

This film has superb acting, for a start. Driver and Ridley are the standouts, but the entire supporting cast does a more than serviceable job.

It is also, for the most part, snappily written. The banter works, the jokes land and nothing feels unnatural.

It just doesn’t offer a heck of a lot beyond that.

Cowgirlsamurai wrote:From The Ringer

@Cowgirlsamurai

The title of the article is priceless: "‘The Rise of Skywalker’ Didn’t Kill the Past—the Past Killed It".

Rey's revelation in 'Rise of Skywalker' changes Star Wars for the worse by Chris Taylor

There's also a somewhat confused subplot about Finn and his Force sensitivity, which could be a ham-fisted attempt to mollify Rey Nobody fans. See, one of your other favorite characters actually came from nothing and is strong with the Force! Except he isn't all that clear about it, and just keeps getting "feelings."

And of course Rey ultimately rejects her Imperial name and all the usual Palpatine guff about "destiny;" she goes so far as to give herself a chosen family name, Skywalker, at the very end of the saga. But, well, even that decision still aligns her with the concept of a Force-based aristocracy.

Personally, I find myself aligned with several Lucasfilm employees I spoke with at the Rise of Skywalker premiere, the ones who confessed that they'd been upset by Rey Palpatine for months.

https://mashable.com/article/rise-skywalker-rey-family-star-wars/

special_cases wrote:Rey's revelation in 'Rise of Skywalker' changes Star Wars for the worse by Chris Taylor

There's also a somewhat confused subplot about Finn and his Force sensitivity, which could be a ham-fisted attempt to mollify Rey Nobody fans. See, one of your other favorite characters actually came from nothing and is strong with the Force! Except he isn't all that clear about it, and just keeps getting "feelings."

And of course Rey ultimately rejects her Imperial name and all the usual Palpatine guff about "destiny;" she goes so far as to give herself a chosen family name, Skywalker, at the very end of the saga. But, well, even that decision still aligns her with the concept of a Force-based aristocracy.

Personally, I find myself aligned with several Lucasfilm employees I spoke with at the Rise of Skywalker premiere, the ones who confessed that they'd been upset by Rey Palpatine for months.

https://mashable.com/article/rise-skywalker-rey-family-star-wars/

@special_cases

Huh.

I kind of thought in the back of my head that something must have happened to make Pablo go into hiding, but I can't necessarily attribute that to the film at this point. But it might be connected, who knows.

special_cases wrote:

Personally, I find myself aligned with several Lucasfilm employees I spoke with at the Rise of Skywalker premiere, the ones who confessed that they'd been upset by Rey Palpatine for months.

@special_cases

Wow!!! There's something juicy here...

Atenais wrote:

special_cases wrote:

Personally, I find myself aligned with several Lucasfilm employees I spoke with at the Rise of Skywalker premiere, the ones who confessed that they'd been upset by Rey Palpatine for months.

@special_cases

Wow!!! There's something juicy here...

@Atenais



Uhh I was waiting for this kind of stuff  

special_cases wrote:Rey's revelation in 'Rise of Skywalker' changes Star Wars for the worse by Chris Taylor

There's also a somewhat confused subplot about Finn and his Force sensitivity, which could be a ham-fisted attempt to mollify Rey Nobody fans. See, one of your other favorite characters actually came from nothing and is strong with the Force! Except he isn't all that clear about it, and just keeps getting "feelings."

And of course Rey ultimately rejects her Imperial name and all the usual Palpatine guff about "destiny;" she goes so far as to give herself a chosen family name, Skywalker, at the very end of the saga. But, well, even that decision still aligns her with the concept of a Force-based aristocracy.

Personally, I find myself aligned with several Lucasfilm employees I spoke with at the Rise of Skywalker premiere, the ones who confessed that they'd been upset by Rey Palpatine for months.

https://mashable.com/article/rise-skywalker-rey-family-star-wars/

@special_cases

I wonder how JJ will answer this question, because he blatantly said the force isn't about a bloodline. He's just another dumb fanboy at the end. Stupid.

cherrylipstick wrote:

Atenais wrote:

special_cases wrote:

Personally, I find myself aligned with several Lucasfilm employees I spoke with at the Rise of Skywalker premiere, the ones who confessed that they'd been upset by Rey Palpatine for months.

@special_cases

Wow!!! There's something juicy here...

@Atenais



Uhh I was waiting for this kind of stuff  

@cherrylipstick
I think this (well, not just this, TROS in general) is absolutely why Pablo Hidalgo put his Twitter on followers-only/private. He had no problem at all fielding questions for both TFA and TLJ, but it truly felt as though he didn't want to have to deal with the onslaught of comments he knew he would get regarding TROS. It's no secret he has been open about disliking TFA, and I think TROS is everything wrong with TFA multiplied tenfold. Lots of confusing elements, moves too fast for any breathing room and includes certain choices I think Pablo just truly did not want to defend or discuss after working very hard with Rian on TLJ, like Rey Palpatine.

It feels as though the story group took a back seat on this film to begin with. I cannot feel their influence as much as I could feel it in TLJ with Rian insisting that he would call up Pablo all the time to discuss maintaining continuity and incorporating lore. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that there was an enormous about of studio meddling/influence injected into this film when Trevorrow was cast out.

I really do hope someone asks JJ about how does Rey Palpatine fit with the anyone can be a hero, it's not necessary to have a special last name theme that was pushed in the movies and interviews for years now .But I'm not holding my breath that he gets asked any difficult questions that aren't pre approved fluff. And yeah I agree with that review that force sensitive Finn is partly about keeping that theme so they can say look we have a nobody that's force sensitive. Except Rey being a nobody was a big deal because she's the main jedi character on level with Luke and Anakin and so far all of them have been from special origins either famous powerful relative or literally magical force conception. They just gave more strength to the idea that to force is dynastic.

I totally believe a lot of people at LF, especially story group members weren't happy about this obvious retcon. I remember after TLJ the story group members on twitter were very vocal about defending Rey Nobody and they seemed pretty sick of the parantage theories. So to see that retconed and in the dumbest, most convoluted way that barely even makes an impact as far as twists go must have been annoying.

I'm not sure this is relevant, comforting, or otherwise, but there has been once or twice where I did get the sense from either Matt or Pablo that their own personal belief was that Kylo should die at the end of this trilogy, so I'm not sure if *that* is something they have an issue with or if it was predetermined or not. I wish I could cite specific instances, but if anyone else remembers this, feel free to share. But this Rey Palpatine thing seems to be something else entirely. Hmmm.

nickandnora wrote:I'm not sure this is relevant, comforting, or otherwise, but there has been once or twice where I did get the sense from either Matt or Pablo that their own personal belief was that Kylo should die at the end of this trilogy, so I'm not sure if *that* is something they have an issue with or if it was predetermined or not. I wish I could cite specific instances, but if anyone else remembers this, feel free to share. But this Rey Palpatine thing seems to be something else entirely. Hmmm.

@nickandnora

Well, Kylo did die, according to Memory-Han. But I also feel like I saw Pablo or Matt hinting that they thought Kylo should die.

Another thing about the upset Lucasfilm people is that they are supposedly the guardian of GL's legacy/story. And they seemed to dislike this retcon that people who allegedly worship the GL legacy/story love. A weird kind of contradiction/irony.

nickandnora wrote:I'm not sure this is relevant, comforting, or otherwise, but there has been once or twice where I did get the sense from either Matt or Pablo that their own personal belief was that Kylo should die at the end of this trilogy, so I'm not sure if *that* is something they have an issue with or if it was predetermined or not. I wish I could cite specific instances, but if anyone else remembers this, feel free to share. But this Rey Palpatine thing seems to be something else entirely. Hmmm.

@nickandnora
I don't think it has anything to do with Kylo/Ben, personally. Ben's story arc was consistent across all three films (his death is irrelevant in this to me - he goes out like a champion and is totally redeemed), while Rey's is truly a discombobulated mess that allows her to be transformed into putty to be re-moulded for each picture. Of course, TLJ's take is the meaningful one and the narrative a lot of people resonated with, while the final say is a cheap ploy to connect Rey to Palpatine. A lot of choices in this film feel like they were sacrifices to the Palpatine and Sith void. I really wonder who pushed Palpatine - was it actually JJ/Terrio, or was it someone else higher up within Disney?

I'm afraid we'll never get a truly beautiful and nuanced SW film again somehow, but I have my fingers crossed that this movie does (at least) worse than TLJ so they can do a bit of reevaluations going forward.

nickandnora wrote:I'm not sure this is relevant, comforting, or otherwise, but there has been once or twice where I did get the sense from either Matt or Pablo that their own personal belief was that Kylo should die at the end of this trilogy, so I'm not sure if *that* is something they have an issue with or if it was predetermined or not. I wish I could cite specific instances, but if anyone else remembers this, feel free to share. But this Rey Palpatine thing seems to be something else entirely. Hmmm.

@nickandnora

I doubt Matt Martin would hint to that. He likes conflicted characters and antiheroes and I am sure he once said he likes Kylo. Pablo is not a Kylo fan. I don’t think he ever said he should die, but he doesn’t like conflicted characters much. Still, for all his dislike of the character, I don’t think he would influence the director to kill off a character. I rather think as other mentioned that the Story Group was not much involved in TRoS hence all the inconsistencies. I think Matt Martin said he was not involved at all. Can that be?

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

nickandnora wrote:I'm not sure this is relevant, comforting, or otherwise, but there has been once or twice where I did get the sense from either Matt or Pablo that their own personal belief was that Kylo should die at the end of this trilogy, so I'm not sure if *that* is something they have an issue with or if it was predetermined or not. I wish I could cite specific instances, but if anyone else remembers this, feel free to share. But this Rey Palpatine thing seems to be something else entirely. Hmmm.

@nickandnora
I don't think it has anything to do with Kylo/Ben, personally. Ben's story arc was consistent across all three films (his death is irrelevant in this to me - he goes out like a champion and is totally redeemed), while Rey's is truly a discombobulated mess that allows her to be transformed into putty to be re-moulded for each picture. Of course, TLJ's take is the meaningful one and the narrative a lot of people resonated with, while the final say is a cheap ploy to connect Rey to Palpatine. A lot of choices in this film feel like they were sacrifices to the Palpatine and Sith void. I really wonder who pushed Palpatine - was it actually JJ/Terrio, or was it someone else higher up within Disney?

I'm afraid we'll never get a truly beautiful and nuanced SW film again somehow, but I have my fingers crossed that this movie does (at least) worse than TLJ so they can do a bit of reevaluations going forward.

@FrolickingFizzgig

I want so badly for RJ to do his movies now, if not related to rey and ben, then he can give us a reylo redo with another new couple lol.

SanghaRen wrote:

nickandnora wrote:I'm not sure this is relevant, comforting, or otherwise, but there has been once or twice where I did get the sense from either Matt or Pablo that their own personal belief was that Kylo should die at the end of this trilogy, so I'm not sure if *that* is something they have an issue with or if it was predetermined or not. I wish I could cite specific instances, but if anyone else remembers this, feel free to share. But this Rey Palpatine thing seems to be something else entirely. Hmmm.

@nickandnora

I doubt Matt Martin would hint to that. He likes conflicted characters and antiheroes and I am sure he once said he likes Kylo. Pablo is not a Kylo fan. I don’t think he ever said he should die, but he doesn’t like conflicted characters much. Still, for all his dislike of the character, I don’t think he would influence the director to kill off a character. I rather think as other mentioned that the Story Group was not much involved in TRoS hence all the inconsistencies. I think Matt Martin said he was not involved at all. Can that be?

@SanghaRen

You're right, it was probably Pablo. I'm not saying he would influence a director to kill off a character, I'm saying he might have been hinting that this character was always going to be killed off. Either way, whoever it was might have just been playing Devil's Advocate in response to whatever conversation about redemption was going on at the time.

Matt has said even recently that he did not work on TRoS at all, yes. I wonder what they think of the film all around, not just the parts they are currently rumoured to not like (Rey Palpatine). I assume the sloppy execution has to bother those that are the keeper of canon, surely.

Also did the movie totally retcon Poe's back story from the comics and books? Idk what exactly they changed cause I never read that but I'm seeing people who did say that it's different in the movie. Stuff like that is probably annoying to people who are supposed to deal with keeping things canon across all projects. I remember reading that Pablo wasn't the biggest fan of JJ in the first place since TFA really but idk what's that about exactly and if it's just about the choices in the movie or something else behind the scenes.

OOOOOOHHHHHHHHHH

The Emperor Only Has Groove



FilmCriticHulk

I’m so tired of writing about J.J. Abrams.

But here, at the end of things, especially after a film that really set the stage for character growth, there would be no hiding. Here with Rise of the Skywalker, the answers, the catharsis, the whatever you would want to call it, would need to come to fruition. The problem? Well, the problem is what it’s always been…

Abrams has no idea how to tell a story.

What does the character want? What does the character need to learn instead? How are they going to learn that? How is the character feeling about what is happening right now? Why do those wants clash with other characters and create psychological conflict? How does this create cause and effect in the plot? How does that conflict create more conflict? Or new resolutions that create a different conflict? How does the outcome propel the plot forward in a meaningful way? How does that outcome change the character? How does it all add up to a meaningful psychological journey? What’s the one thing this character could do at the end of the movie that they were unable to do at the beginning? How did this journey make it possible? How does all this characterize a larger, evolving idea and strike at a theme that resonates deeply? How can all of this happen so seamlessly that it is all naturally dramatized through singular, organic actions, rather than didactically explained?

These questions may seem overwhelming and difficult to answer, but they are the backbone of all good writing. Surprise! Writing is hard!

And to fill the void, Abrams relies on the dull hum of manufactured conflict, often throwing diversion after diversion at us. He’ll introduce vague ideas before literally cutting away from them (known as plot-blocking). He’ll pile McGuffin after McGuffin on top of each other (many of which should really be characters to create meaningful conflict). He’ll constantly interrupt events because there’s nowhere the scenes are actually going.

Bad guys showing up with guns is a CONSTANT device, rarely culminating in any feeling of power reversal or dynamic, but just more of the constant hum, the loud noise, the mere idea of a threat. Which is precisely why the film can feel so fast, but still never really feel like a chase- It’s only in a rush. All par for the course of what might be the most rushed film I’ve ever seen in my life. To the point that I’m certain the majority of the running time is just characters running as fast as they can from one of side of the screen to the other, as characters literally shout plot details that have nothing to do with anything.

Now you might say, “But Hulk! No one cares about exposition!” But that’s not actually true. A lot of people think exposition is boring, but only bad exposition is boring. Because every film you love doesn’t magically get by with zero exposition, it just knows how to layer explanations in meaningful conflict, subtle cinematic cues, or purposeful transitions. In other words, it knows how to make information feel organic and integral into scenes. And the best know how to make it not feel like information at all. But Abrams doesn’t seem to know how to do it, so he just makes the character yell nonsense as they run real fast.

It’s just another way of hiding the nothing.

Too bad the film’s messages get reduced to a bunch of trite aphorisms that have no real bearing on the deeper character journeys or overall ethos. Particularly the films groan-inducing reveal of Rey’s parentage, which then has the insistence to argue “blood doesn’t matter!” But it actually matters a lot according your own dang movie, what with the force dyads and Palpantines and inherited lightning powers and what not.        

Too bad even that fails. We’re all left to wonder, how did Lando convince the entire galaxy to show up when no one at all showed up last time? What new words of hope did he offer? What actually changed between now and then? Well, we don’t know. They just did cause it’s the end of the trilogy and it feels nice. Like most of Abrams’ work, the film so badly wants to surprise you that it forgets the most important parts of dramatization.

And it’s the kind of stuff that makes me think that Abrams really only knows how to draw direct scenic copy and paste parallels while inverting details for “surprise,” without understanding how it messes with the meaning of them.

Everything is the most surface level comparison or juxtaposition. It’s the reason that instead of being paired with Rose in some kind of completion of their journey, Finn is now paired with Jannah, another former Stormtroooper who is just like him! But they have nothing actually happening between them except for the basic empathy of pointing at each other and going “we’re the same!” Again, part of Abrams not understanding that characters mostly learn lessons from those who are different from them and have something to teach them.

Like the endless rows of starships on starships, Rise of the Skywalker feels “big” by constantly suggesting a scale that moves past the frame, never once filling the space inside it with any kind of composed emotion or relationship of what’s happening on screen. It’s all shoved and cut together, never really adding up. It’s an endless series of juxtapositions, allusions, and references to prior films that all crash endlessly as Abrams sits back hoping against hope that it will “feel” like it makes sense, even if it doesn’t actually make sense. But putting something on screen is just the cinematic form of lip service. Without context to purpose, it’s not part of the story. It’s just an artful staging of relics, like buried lightsabers. A ceremony outside of narrative. Just another diversion from “the nothing” behind it.

And I have no idea if Abrams understands all this or not at this point. So, to be frank, I think I’m done trying to get at the “why” behind it all. This isn't the story of “The Emperor’s New Clothes,” anymore. People have been talking about these problems in his work forever now, as have I. This is isn't about willing to say what hasn’t been said. This about the Emperor themselves.

The is about J.J. Abrams. A person who in real life, may be kindness and generosity incarnate, a person who I wish more than well, but still a person whose cinematic identity is that of one who only moves with charm and surface, a placating instinct for iconography and a seductive kiss before its out the door. This Emperor only has groove.

So I’m not sure I care at this point, either. I’ve written so much about J.J. Abrams. In fact, I think I’ve written more words about him than any other filmmaker. And yet every time I come back to his work, I’ve genuinely tried to engage it optimistically. Every time, I’ve hoped for this film to be the one where it all finally clicks for him.

But unfortunately, it’s also something I care about because I love movies. Because I’ll always care about understanding them. I’ll care about how we engage with them, how we parse them, and how we let them live on in our souls. And in talking about them I’m always hoping to broaden, shape, and explore.

And if a filmmaker genuinely brings something meaningless at me and does as fast and earnestly and urgently as possible? I’m always going to care.

But sometimes you have to care about it in a way where you understand you are in an irrevocable situation. So barring some Emperor-like resurrection miracles, or some convoluted meta plot-twists that another universe, or even a real, tangible, earnest growth of can be found within that old mystery box- I just have to stop writing about J.J. Abrams.

I feel sad reading this, TBH...

https://www.patreon.com/posts/32504876

I just have no faith in LF, or more specifically I have zero faith that they'll be allowed to tell more artistic storylines in films after what happened with TLJ. I truly think Kathleen Kennedy loved TLJ. I think LF was proud of their accomplishment (the story group sure was - it was clear to me in their comments about the film). I think they were basically tethered and JJ and Terrio were possibly working with a check-list of some kind dictating certain things, re: nostalgia-driven and OT focused, less focus on unpopular characters like Rose, etc. That does not mean most the dumbest ideas didn't come from them. I believe they did.

My only hope is this film makes less money than anticipated, and I just don't know if that's a realistic expectation. It seems as though this film may be pleasing the GA, and if that's what they wanted, then they may just succeed. Or not. It's hard to say.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:I just have no faith in LF, or more specifically I have zero faith that they'll be allowed to tell more artistic storylines in films after what happened with TLJ. I truly think Kathleen Kennedy loved TLJ. I think LF was proud of their accomplishment (the story group sure was - it was clear to me in their comments about the film). I think they were basically tethered and JJ and Terrio were possibly working with a check-list of some kind dictating certain things, re: nostalgia-driven and OT focused, less focus on unpopular characters like Rose, etc. That does not mean most the dumbest ideas didn't come from them. I believe they did.

My only hope is this film makes less money than anticipated, and I just don't know if that's a realistic expectation. It seems as though this film may be pleasing the GA, and if that's what they wanted, then they may just succeed. Or not. It's hard to say.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Yeah I don't think they're gonna do anything like TLJ again, at least not for a long time. Imo they'll want SW movies to be Marvel 2.0,fun and entertaining for audiences but with a formula that makes every movie look the same. It's why they want people like Kevin Feige involved.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:I just have no faith in LF, or more specifically I have zero faith that they'll be allowed to tell more artistic storylines in films after what happened with TLJ. I truly think Kathleen Kennedy loved TLJ. I think LF was proud of their accomplishment (the story group sure was - it was clear to me in their comments about the film). I think they were basically tethered and JJ and Terrio were possibly working with a check-list of some kind dictating certain things, re: nostalgia-driven and OT focused, less focus on unpopular characters like Rose, etc. That does not mean most the dumbest ideas didn't come from them. I believe they did.

My only hope is this film makes less money than anticipated, and I just don't know if that's a realistic expectation. It seems as though this film may be pleasing the GA, and if that's what they wanted, then they may just succeed. Or not. It's hard to say.

@FrolickingFizzgig
I think that's a totally reasonable expectation. Like, I don't want the film where Reylo are in love and kiss to actually tank. But I think they need to take a second look at this kind of mediocre and borderline traumatizing (especially given their messaging regarding Star Wars) storytelling. The last thing I want any fandom to be is a carbon copy of the worst, most hatable factions, but I hope those with energy and eloquence are able to have a legitimate conversation and feel they were heard by someone higher up (I'll probably be long gone in a few weeks max. - the anthology films were basically the end for me - so that's why it has to be others, lol). I didn't even hate the film as a piece of entertainment, but there are some seriously, seriously uniquely problematic messages in this film that I hope someone somewhere realizes, "... what did we DO?" at some point at least.

It would be nice to think that, if the movie underperforms, the people in charge are going to reassess and do something artistic and thoughtful instead. But I wouldn’t hold my breath.

As a random aside re: exposition... having rewatched the LotR trilogy recently, I was so impressed with the way it managed to convey a huge massive amount of exposition in an organic and engaging way.