Exploring TROS & The Future of Star Wars...

I would like to see young Luke show about his Jedi Temple.

How I wish I could share your enthusiasm, but post TROS I no longer want to watch ANYTHING connected to SW.
I know a lot of people love spin offs like Mando and Rebels, but to me the Skywalkers and Solos WERE SW. And now they are all gone.

I was cool with the fate of the OT - it wasn't something that I would have chosen, I would have let them live a bit longer, but at least they DID live, and while Ben was alive there was always future grandchildren.
But they chose to sacrifice Ben and replace him with the horrible self righteous girl Rey has become. And to put the final nail in the coffin - made her Sheev Palpatine's granddaughter.
They couldn't have picked a worse ending.
Any 'prequel' series now is forever tainted for this former fan. I know exactly how the story ends. Han dies trying to save Ben. Leia dies trying to reach Ben. Luke dies so Ben doesn't have the blood of another family member on his hands....
And instead of living on, instead of fathering kids that ensure Han, Leia and Luke live on....Ben Solo dies saving the last Palpatine.

Lord, I know I'm ranting but almost two years later I still can't get over how awful the ending of the Skywalker saga is. Even more so now I think of Harrison saying he wanted Han's death to be 'meaningful.'

Meaningful so his only child could feed his life force into that horrible little girl.

And as for Finn/Rey in a series....count me out big time. Can't stand either of them, and if JB gets his wish to 'lay the pipe' with Rey purely because he's played the race card, it will be the icing on the poison cake.

motherofpearl1 wrote:How I wish I could share your enthusiasm, but post TROS I no longer want to watch ANYTHING connected to SW.

@motherofpearl1

I totally agree.  TROS pretty much killed my interest in Star Wars.  Part of me keeps hoping that somehow they'll fix things and bring Ben back.  But I know there's probably less than a .0000000001% chance of that happening.  I can't stop ranting about it.  I was also okay with the fate of the OT, although it would not have been my preference for them, either.  But that was when I thought that Ben would be redeemed and continue the Skywalker line with Rey.  That would have been a hopeful ending, and it would have made Han, Leia, and Luke's sacrifices worth it.  But as things stand now, what happened to them was just really depressing.  What horrible, horrible ending to one of the most beloved sagas ever.  I still can believe they did that.  Do they even realize what they did?  Do they even care at all?  It doesn't seem like it.  I guess they just don't get it.

I never really considered the "happy ever after with Rey" ending as a big possibility myself. For me it was going to be redemtion through death or my preference which was him living and trying to make things right after all that wrong he did before. I was almost 100% sure that he will die after redemption once they anounced that JJ will make ep. 9. The guy can't do anything new, only rehash old movies. I just tought that his death would be emotional like Vader's. Instead we got a scene for laugh. Rey sucked his life with that kiss.

None of the scenes in TROS which should have been emotional and moving were, apart from the Han/Kylo scene which was the only part I actually cried at. Ben's death was so quickly glossed over, in the need to showcase Palpwalker's reunion with her dreary groupies and a quick rush to that binary sunset ending and Mary and Joseph of Tattooine smiling like two fembots at their succubus replacement for their real heir.

The scene where Lando arrives 'at the last moment', the 'I am ALL the Jedi....watch me ROARRR' moment...lord it was so corny it was embarrassing. I was sitting in the cinema cringing at it. The entire film was a sick joke.

Geralt_Riv wrote:I never really considered the "happy ever after with Rey" ending as a big possibility myself. For me it was going to be redemtion through death or my preference which was him living and trying to make things right after all that wrong he did before. I was almost 100% sure that he will die after redemption once they anounced that JJ will make ep. 9. The guy can't do anything new, only rehash old movies. I just tought that his death would be emotional like Vader's. Instead we got a scene for laugh. Rey sucked his life with that kiss.

@Geralt_Riv

I could have accepted Ben dying if the movie had given us a good story and showed that he and Rey loved each other and had at least some quality time together instead of just a kiss and then him falling back dead.  I actually would have liked for them to have gone off and gotten secretly married or something, or at the very least to have spent enough time together for Rey to get pregnant, and I don't mean with a Force baby.  It still would have been incredibly sad if he had died, and I would have been devastated, but epic romances don't always end happily, and at least the OT three's sacrifices would not have been in vain.

I saw Ben going into exile to spend his some years atoning for what he did, Rey telling everyone 'Kylo Ren is dead' and at the end joining Ben - as Ben Solo was born again.

The fact is, JJ did not plan for Ben's survival - that was why he had him kill Han. My brother said recently that it would have been far better if Han had died saving Ben, but I honestly think the plan all along was to erase the 'bloodline' and replace them with the Palpwalker. Not that I for one moment think they intended all along to make her Sheev's descendant.

Then there's Alan Dean Foster claiming he wanted Finn/Rey and DLF stopped him. Whether he's telling the truth or what, there are quite a few Finn fans who are very angry that Rey kissed Kylo; and apparently John Boyega mentioned himself that he liked the idea of Finn being with Rey as endgame. Rose/Finn was scuppered and there isn't any mention of Finn/Jannah. It doesn't make things any easier that the wokesters are constantly insisting that it was 'morally wrong' to have Rey fall in love with Kylo after he 'kidnapped and assaulted her.' These individuals, I'd like to point out, also think Wuthering Heights glorifies the abuse of women and that Han's pursuit of Leia was 'stalking'.

The only director I think who truly wanted Reylo was Rian and I'm absolutely convinced that he was ordered to make them 'break up' at the end because Trevorrow wanted Poe/Rey. I don't have a clue whether they intended all along for Rey to end up alone on Tattooine, but I'm pretty sure if they ever do give her a love interest it'll be Finn. Some months back he was all over the official SW website after appearing at a #blm rally, and Disney seem anxious to prove to the rest of the world they aren't racist - they are currently claiming that future projects will be primarily featuring female and POC characters, and a Finn/Rey romance would be the perfect opportunity to showcase this.

The sad fact is, reylo could have been the greatest love story in the SWU. But they tossed it to satisfy the slavering fanatics who think an edgy fantasy romance is on a par with toxic, abusive relationships in real life. I'm particularly disgusted at the reylo haters who insist that Finn/Rey was trashed by Rian so he could go with a 'traditional white couple.'
They forget Kelly Tran and how she was treated, or how their golden boy dismissed her once TROS was over and the NDAs no longed governed what he wanted to say.

And if there is one thing my sojourn on the forum I can't mention has taught me...it's how truly toxic Star Wars fans can be. If you so much as dare to mention Leia and Han were wanting in the parenting department you unleash the wrath of hell! To certain people Han and Leia are angels who can do no wrong, they gave Ben a wonderful childhood and Leia putting the restoration of the Republic first is absolutely right because it taught her son that he wasn't the centre of the universe and that did him good.
Neither Harrison or Carrie, parents in real life, were insulted by the insinuation that they weren't perfect parents. Fact is, you apparently aren't allowed to like and sympathise with Kylo/Ben at all. If you do, it makes you racist, sexist and an apologist for toxic masculinity.

Your personality and decency as a human being is judged by your feelings for a fictional character. I have come to the sad fact that after forty two years I'm no longer welcome in the SW fandom. Well, that's fine, because I no longer want to be associated with them either.

I also need to ask anyone....has anybody on this forum gone on other forums...I have, several, and they seem to have a universal hatred of Kylo. Is it just them, or is he universally hated apart from here? Because I'm starting to find it pretty depressing.

From a new Collider interview with JJ:








I'm still confused about all those earlier interviews about their general plans and collaborations for the ST, but either way, I still honestly don't think they even needed a hard plan, just not to give in to the worst impulses of the fanbase, executives, and creatives. Truly, the bar was not that high, but they ultimately couldn't clear it.

I absolutely want nothing to do with the SW fandom apart from Kylo fans these days.

I'm sick of:
Rey/Kylo was a 'toxic relationship', and an insult to women who have survived spousal abuse ( funny as the only time Kylo raised a hand in anger to Rey was when he threw her into a tree, and she was attempting to shoot him at the time.)
Reylo is racist, it should have been Finn/Rey, anyone who likes Kylo is trying to shove John Boyega out of his rightful role of leading man.
Kylo is a whining little brat who had WONDERFUL parents, anyone who thinks otherwise is DEMONISING the OT.
Leia can do no wrong; of course she should train Rey, she is MUCH MORE worthy; leaving Ben alone ALL THE TIME is only right and good - a woman needs to put her career first, it does the child good that he/she is not the centre of her universe, to think other is appalling sexism.

Ultimately SW has been 'got at' by the self righteous, the sanctimonious and the professionally outraged. And I don't want to have anything to do with it any more. I'm sorry, I've loved it for years but the reactions of so many people to 'reylo' has left me feeling deeply disheartened. There's no such thing as edgy, sexy romance allowed these days 'in case it upsets anyone.'

I also couldn't help but feel slightly sick that a female abuse survivor actually thanked John Boyega on twitter for dissing reylo, when some of his comments were revoltingly misogynistic. Meanwhile, there's a terrific reylo fan on tumblr - I don't know if they are a guy or a gal, but the person is black bisexual - and loves reylo. So he/she wasn't at all offended that 'Kylo replaced Finn as leading man.'

Lord, there's no fun in the world these days.

Rey/Kylo was a toxic relationship but it wasn't Kylo who was the more toxic one. I don't know why he would be into Rey. It feels like after so many years of Snoke's influence he ended up as a guy who is into masochism.

How did Kylo take Finn's position? It was Poe who took position from Finn. He was a character who originally was supposed to die in TFA and ended up as one of the "trio" characters when there was no trio to begin with at the start of the trilogy.

Nobody should put their career over their family. This only leads to divorce and broken families.

I've seen first hand the damage done to kids whose parents put their careers first, and frankly if you're going to do that, it's best you don't have them in the first place.
And yes, Poe did steal Finn's thunder....but Kylo is the one singled out. Because Adam is white. The poster made a point of saying 'Finn's position of 'Black' male lead'. The poster by the way, is white.

The worst thing is I have repeatedly stood up to these dweebs but they repeatedly accuse me of being racist and sexist - and there's little to stop them as one of them is a moderator.
I don't think Boyega's bellyaching post TROS helped much; his revolting comments on twitter were dismissed as 'oh, he's only joking' then back we go to the Kylo criticism - Kylo is 'fictional'. John Boyega wasn't making these comments as Finn, but as himself.

Off topic....apparently DLF have 'cleaned up'the look of TROS and altered a couple of scenes; I suspect DVD sales haven't been very good - they never had to do this with TFA or TLJ.

californiagirl wrote:From a new Collider interview with JJ:








I'm still confused about all those earlier interviews about their general plans and collaborations for the ST, but either way, I still honestly don't think they even needed a hard plan, just not to give in to the worst impulses of the fanbase, executives, and creatives. Truly, the bar was not that high, but they ultimately couldn't clear it.

@californiagirl

Reading these JJ quotes, my reaction is: what a depressing stream of consciousness - JJ is reclining on Freud’s couch doing free association or something..  JJ seems to be realising his imposter syndrome tendencies may be... ummm justified?!
Not wishing to be too harsh but this is not the thoughts of an established director, but of a somewhat beginner.
Maybe it’s just me, but if I didn’t know who the quote was attributed to, I would guess it’s a second year games designer moaning about their game design project getting an F. Gee this is harder than I thought! I need to plan, who knew?! I have to know what story I want to tell?

It’s kinda fundamental ain’t it? But what do I know I’m not a Hollywood blockbuster director.

Erm JJ... if you’ve learned a lesson “a few times now” and it still hasn’t sunk in, then maybe you haven’t actually learned it at all?

Saracene wrote:Erm JJ... if you’ve learned a lesson “a few times now” and it still hasn’t sunk in, then maybe you haven’t actually learned it at all?

@Saracene

Hmmmmm true. I was too kind wasn’t I? He’s sounding like a first year game design student.

He sounds like a Hollywood player spinning mock-humble ingratiating self-deprecating bs. He did the same thing after Star Trek: Into Darkness failed hard and angered the core Star Trek fans. Probably because he’s got a new project coming up lol.

Is it this one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4-3fqAhuQ0

Ummm, the comments are very positive. The movie nobody asked for.
Maybe JJ will "learn" his lesson the umptieth time after this, aka he clearly learned nothing.
I was still somewhat ok with Into Darkness, but after TROS I´m done with JJ´s nonsense.
He ruined SW for me, sth. I loved dearly for almost 40 years. No more JJ for me, no thanks.

unicorn wrote:Ummm, the comments are very positive. The movie nobody asked for.
Maybe JJ will "learn" his lesson the umptieth time after this, aka he clearly learned nothing.
I was still somewhat ok with Into Darkness, but after TROS I´m done with JJ´s nonsense.
He ruined SW for me, sth. I loved dearly for almost 40 years. No more JJ for me, no thanks.

@unicorn

Exactly how I feel - I actually enjoyed Into Darkness, but mostly for Benedict Cumberbatch.
I've noticed how many negative comments are from black posters, they are for the most part angry because they liked Henry Cavill. They also mention Val Zod - he's an original Kryptonian from a parallel universe, and he's black. My brother is a HUGE DC fan and he told me Val Zod is a terrific character. Why aren't they introducing Val instead of making Clark Kent a black man? There's no need.

An interesting video about Kylo.

@Geralt_Riv
Great video ! However I don’t agree with their viewpoint about Han as it’s obvious from additional book based material that Han was affectionate towards his son . Yes he had issues as a father in that he wasn’t there for him later but the video made it sound a bit like Ben was closer to Leia than Han . Yes they both had the force but didn’t necessarily mean they were closer . I do really like how they go into into kylo’s character and the father figures and how out of control he is compared to vader and I do agree that he probably couldn’t live with himself as Ben solo knowing the things he’s done which is why he selflessly gives up his life for Rey but there’s the crux of the problem. The message it gives out is if you’ve done bad things instead of doing the more complicated thing and working through it to reconcile yourself through a life of service to make amends , you end your life . Which is a horrible message. I get that he loved Rey and saved her but just wish there could have been another way and they had gone down the route of Bucky in Falcon and winter soldier series . Just wish Star Wars was more prepared to go down a different route with its complicated characters rather than give them death all the time .It’s just so tragic  

AhsokaTano wrote:@Geralt_Riv
Great video ! However I don’t agree with their viewpoint about Han as it’s obvious from additional book based material that Han was affectionate towards his son . Yes he had issues as a father in that he wasn’t there for him later but the video made it sound a bit like Ben was closer to Leia than Han . Yes they both had the force but didn’t necessarily mean they were closer . I do really like how they go into into kylo’s character and the father figures and how out of control he is compared to vader and I do agree that he probably couldn’t live with himself as Ben solo knowing the things he’s done which is why he selflessly gives up his life for Rey but there’s the crux of the problem. The message it gives out is if you’ve done bad things instead of doing the more complicated thing and working through it to reconcile yourself through a life of service to make amends , you end your life . Which is a horrible message. I get that he loved Rey and saved her but just wish there could have been another way and they had gone down the route of Bucky in Falcon and winter soldier series . Just wish Star Wars was more prepared to go down a different route with its complicated characters rather than give them death all the time .It’s just so tragic  

@AhsokaTano

You know, that's why I've loved Bucky's arc so much. I remember when some were complaining that the MCU wasn't as deep as Star Wars, but the MCU has had its moments. I don't understand why they handled the end of Ben's arc so poorly.

It’s a big frustration of the ST trilogy that you’ve got all these fascinating Skywalker/Solo family dynamics and drama, but because it concentrates on the boring bland new heroes, we get mere crumbs of Han and Ben, Leia and Ben, etc. and it’s basically down to the actors to sell these relationships the best they can. What a waste.

http://awinegarner.squarespace.com/duel-of-the-fates

Colin Trevorrow's fanfiction as a comic.

@motherofpearl

I avoid forums like the plague but I wander around youtube a lot and it's a totally different story there. Most people (guys and gals) seem to love Kylo and everything Adam brought to the table with him, and are so unsatisfied with the way his character arc ended. Rey and the rest however, are either universally hated or just indifferent. It's been really interesting to see.

KiraRen2015 wrote:@motherofpearl

I avoid forums like the plague but I wander around youtube a lot and it's a totally different story there. Most people (guys and gals) seem to love Kylo and everything Adam brought to the table with him, and are so unsatisfied with the way his character arc ended. Rey and the rest however, are either universally hated or just indifferent. It's been really interesting to see.

@KiraRen2015

Actually, I've been doing the same and you're right.
Regarding 'other forums'.....I've been vindicated, of sorts, because one of the 'Kylo is an abuser' posters said that Caledon Huckley of Titanic 'wasn't as bad' as Kylo and Rey would have been 'far better off with him'.
This is the guy who did this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6AVRZCjpX0

From now on, the lot of 'em don't have a leg to stand on.

@geralt riv
Regarding Duel of the Fates, some of it...and I emphasise SOME of it....actually isn't too bad. Rey truly facing her own darkness, Finn's story arc...are much better than TROS. Poe/Rey and Kylo's appalling treatment spoils it, but honestly I wouldn't care one jot if Kylo had a bad scar if it satisfied the haters and allowed him to live.
I ordered the TROS junior graphic novel waaay back before I saw the film, and after months of being 'put back' I finally got it the other day. I love the artwork and I'm glad as I have the other two...but dear God. I ended up skipping to the Kylo bits before the story is such drivel I couldn't even read it through in a comic!