Exploring TROS & The Future of Star Wars...

Neither am I.
I've always believed that there are three types of SW fan:
Those that love it for the Skywalkers - and Solos.
Those that love it for other material, such as the EU and spin offs - believe me, I know fans who are more interested in these than the OT characters.
Those that love it for both.

I'm firmly in category one....don't get me wrong, I liked Mando and Rogue 1, but to me they are the dessert while the Skywalker/Solos are the main course! And sadly, now they've thrown away the main course, I'm not interested in the side dishes.

motherofpearl1 wrote:As so many others have pointed out, the first half of TROS shows Rey receiving a fertility necklace, and looking longingly at children.....it seems so obvious that she wants a family

@motherofpearl1

I’m pretty sure I saw somewhere that JJ explained the scene as Rey longing to be a child herself Which doesn’t surprise me one bit. Let’s face it, we were fooled by TLJ that people in charge actually had a clear plan of Rey growing from a child into an adult, whereas it was really just Rian and JJ had no intent of following that up. To him Rey in TFA is already perfect. Even if you look at the kiss scene in TRoS both Ben and Rey feel like kids compared to their interactions in TLJ where they felt more like a grown man and a grown woman.

Rey wanting a family of her own, as in husband and children, in fact has never been something that any of the ST movies ever articulated. It just goes back to Rey being a vague non-character that anyone can read however they like.

Abrams said that Rey's costume 'regressed' purely because they had to use leftover scenes with Carrie and Daisy....but that is rubbish. They could have had her change her clothes in between scenes or simply CGI a new costume onto her - in Alice in Wonderland Crispin Glover's entire costume was CGI.
It seems that Abrams simply wanted Rey as a 'Peter Pan' clone, the 'girl who never grows up'. Never falls in love, never has a family, always keeps her hair in a 'little girl style'....my brother said after watching TFA that she looked more like a little girl than a woman.

I actually find that both disturbing and distasteful.....but does anyone remember how in an interview before TROS was released someone mentioned the 'Kylo shirtless scene' and Abrams responded with 'we won't get any of THAT in TROS', or words to that effect?

I guess he would explain that by saying it was a 'film for kids'...but ALL of the SW films were meant to be 'for kids'....yet we got:

shirtless Luke in ESB
semi naked Leia in ROTJ
shirtless Anakin in ROTS
Han and Chewie sharing a shower in Solo

Plus, scenes of a woman giving birth in ROTS, numerous death scenes, a man practically being burned alive, and several limbs being cut off.

SW films were meant for kids AND adults, JJ. And believe it or not....little girls grow up.

I’m pretty sure that the “no shirtless Kylo” comment actually came from Daisy. But then she and JJ seemed to be on the same page where Rey is concerned. Remember “it’s a relationship journey, no romance here”?

Wow....now that is something I didn't know.

It's funny (peculiar) but I said before that I think a lot of JJ's problems came from indulging his friends. Poe's survival as a character actually put Finn in his shadow, despite the 'usual suspects' blaming Kylo. John wanted Force sensitive Finn, and it was completely pointless. There was also a rumour he wasn't keen on the Finn/Rose romance, which was why it was scuppered, but that might have just been gossip, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. Daisy and John both wanted to work together on TROS, so the 'Trio' are born.

Regarding Daisy saying that, then all these 'no romance', 'Rey doesn't need a boyfriend' comments ....either someone 'got at' her, or she got a bit carried away with her own character and embraced the TROS Rey who 'needs nothing and no one, as she's perfect.'

If the latter is the case, then I'm genuinely saddened...because she allowed her character to 'regress' and become stagnant rather than develop, and that isn't much of a challenge to an actor.

To be completely fair, “no romance” is my own sarcasm rather than a direct statement from Daisy. If I remember right “relationship journey” was Daisy’s own description for how she viewed Rey and Ben. It’s just such a bland non-committal description it made me roll my eyes so hard.

Sadly, I can't say I blame you there.
I hope I'm wrong...but I wonder if Daisy and John got a bit 'carried away' with their characters; both being young and to a degree inexperienced it might have gone to their heads a bit - but I can't help but think of John's somewhat petulant behaviour post TROS, and compare it to the quiet class Adam, Domhnall and especially Kelly showed both during the promos and after. I still can't believe how they were treated.

Not gonna watch the Ahsoka show though, I just can't get down with things involving the actor. And boy am I glad that Rangers spinoff of Mando got dunked, even if it was just because the main actress was being an awful person, constantly, very publicly. Reminds me of one of the Black Panther actors being an anti-vaxxer, which has been interfering with filming and reshoots.

As much as people can project onto Rey, she sure as heck wasn't intended to be a Skywalker until TROS reshoots. There was even a quote in the tros art book about it from some years back.

I think they thought making her a Skywalker might console those of us who loved the OT and weren't happy about the entire family being killed off. But I'll never forgive them for what they did with Ben - from cutting Adam's screen time to the atrocious way he was handled in the final arc of the film.
He was top billing after the OT cast, yet his character had no dialogue for the last twenty minutes he was onscreen and was literally thrown in the trash so they could give all the glory to Rey, from killing Palpatine on her own to all the former Jedi rushing to her aid. They couldn't have made it all the more obvious that they wanted the audience to forget Ben Solo and root for Rey if they'd tried.

The entire film was clearly a love fest for Rey, from turning Ben into her opponent for the first half, to acting as if he'd never existed in the last segment. Even Finn played a back seat to her - which I find ironic as Boyega seemed to blame Adam post TROS for his poor use in the film when the focus was on Rey, not on Kylo/Ben.

Ironically it had precisely the opposite effect to what they wanted - Ben fans only love him more, and Rey fans weren't happy with the direction they took her in. In fact, some of her fans - myself included, I'm sorry to say - can't stand her now.

I just remembered that Rogue Squadron, the movie Patty Jenkins is making, is supposed to be post-TROS, thought there's been recent rumors of delaying it to get the script right, or so she can work on Wonder Woman 3, or that it's being shelved indefinitely because of creative differences, who knows what's happening. There's been some drama involving several upcoming MCU productions as well.

Now that's interesting. I wonder if we'll hear any mention of Finn and Rey's activities post TROS?

I mean it's supposed to like a couple centuries post-TROS. Probably so they can avoid ST stuff.

You know, they act as if they are so self satisfied with TROS....yet no mention of Finn, or Rey, or any stuff featuring those two characters. Interesting.

KK says the ST characters will come back. It's very vague and corporate speak here, and could kind of mean anything, but still, I think this is the most official, definitive thing any LF/Disney higher up has said about it. Maybe they saw that the Kylo and Rey merch that various third party companies put out sells well lol. This is from an Empire article today.

californiagirl wrote:KK says the ST characters will come back. It's very vague and corporate speak here, and could kind of mean anything, but still, I think this is the most official, definitive thing any LF/Disney higher up has said about it. Maybe they saw that the Kylo and Rey merch that various third party companies put out sells well lol. This is from an Empire article today.

@californiagirl

It would be great if they fixed things so that Kylo somehow came back and was reunited with Rey.  It wouldn't be hard to do.  After all, if they can just explain Palpatine's return as "somehow, Palpatine's back" then they should be able to bring Kylo back without much of an explanation if they're too lazy to write a decent story.  I just want Reylo reunited one way or another.

My fear is that if they do bring any of the ST characters back, they will just focus on the Trio and we'll be lucky if we get any mention of Kylo/Ben at all.  But I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

I would absolutely LOVE this...but several things give me caution.
'Rey doesn't need a boyfriend'....Daisy sadly didn't seem to want ANY romance in the ST, at least post TLJ and pre TROS. Then there was the comment someone at DLF made - can't remember who - regarding Ben Solo's death. It was something like this - 'it's quick, it's clean, it's over.' (rather like my love for SW).
And finally...all of John Boyega's behaviour on twitter; I suspect if they ever do a 'romance' with Rey it'll be with Finn.

Really hope I'm wrong on this one...forgive me for being so disillusioned.

I've noticed, by the way, that the toxic harpies on the FICM seem to have a particular hatred of TLJ...they dislike how they think Rian 'woobified' Ben.

Yet there were plenty of times he was 'woobified' in TFA.

Sparing Finn
His obvious revulsion at the destruction of Hosnia
How he treated Rey...almost kind, especially when you compare it to Poe.
His conflict when it came to killing his father

I also have to chuckle when they keep insisting that the REAL 'conflict' was not between Rey and Kylo....but Finn and Kylo. The ST was full of MacGuffins...and we were supposed to THINK it was between Finn and Kylo.

californiagirl wrote:KK says the ST characters will come back. It's very vague and corporate speak here, and could kind of mean anything, but still, I think this is the most official, definitive thing any LF/Disney higher up has said about it. Maybe they saw that the Kylo and Rey merch that various third party companies put out sells well lol. This is from an Empire article today.

@californiagirl

- they will live on? Really?! Ugh… I’m so over their spin. I can see LFL doing a Poe drug err spice runner series as a teen and having KK say they live on!
To me this vagueness is not a good sign.

Thanks so much for sharing Californiagirl. Even if it doesn’t thrill me lol.

Kyla Ren wrote:

It would be great if they fixed things so that Kylo somehow came back and was reunited with Rey.  It wouldn't be hard to do.  After all, if they can just explain Palpatine's return as "somehow, Palpatine's back" then they should be able to bring Kylo back without much of an explanation if they're too lazy to write a decent story.  I just want Reylo reunited one way or another.

My fear is that if they do bring any of the ST characters back, they will just focus on the Trio and we'll be lucky if we get any mention of Kylo/Ben at all.  But I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

@Kyla Ren

So true, they can bring Ben back if they want.
Yes, they are totally too lazy to write a decent story!
I’m with you. I want Reylo reunited or just forget it! And I probably won’t invest in SW until I see they are back together! I can see this lot teasing Reylo with us (again) only to gaslight us with Forever Nun Rey. Haaa Nunrey. That’s terrible!

Yep your fears re the trio are justified, I can see why you would not trust them! Since TROS I’ve not seen any sign they get how much they screwed up TROS, or that the friendship gang was just… meh.
I guess I’m not going out of my way to see this haaaaa but still, I need something substantial to convince me to ever give this lot the time of day again…

motherofpearl1 wrote:I would absolutely LOVE this...but several things give me caution.
'Rey doesn't need a boyfriend'....Daisy sadly didn't seem to want ANY romance in the ST, at least post TLJ and pre TROS. Then there was the comment someone at DLF made - can't remember who - regarding Ben Solo's death. It was something like this - 'it's quick, it's clean, it's over.' (rather like my love for SW).
And finally...all of John Boyega's behaviour on twitter; I suspect if they ever do a 'romance' with Rey it'll be with Finn.

Really hope I'm wrong on this one...forgive me for being so disillusioned.

I've noticed, by the way, that the toxic harpies on the FICM seem to have a particular hatred of TLJ...they dislike how they think Rian 'woobified' Ben….

@motherofpearl1

I’ve never paid much attention to what Daisy said or wanted, to me she was all over the place.

Nor John… based on the way Finn was treated in TROS alone, it’s clear to me he doesn’t get much say ultimately in his character or the story. Lol. He might like to talk it up but I’m not convinced.

Forgive you for being disillusioned? Nah! It’s totally justified, and there is nothing to forgive :-)

Dealing with the final TROS product is bad enough, I can’t add that forum’s noise to it also or my head’s gonna explode!



So hey how are people finding New Republic stuff? I know nothing about it haaaa..
but when I hear from Reylos it might be worth it, well… I might listen if I can engage with the content for free. Haaaa..

I think if Daisy and John realise they aren't going to get any major film roles soon they will be tempted back. Regarding Adam I wouldn't blame him one bit if he told them where to go.

The problem is, Disney seem to be consumed with 'woke' now...and Reylo is definitely not 'woke'! (why I love it).

As for the FICM...even other forum members avoid it, including non Kylo or reylo fans; it's that toxic. I read for three reasons:
a good laugh
they actually post some good links
to see if any of the few remaining sensible people on it have left yet.

The only ST-related thing I’d be even remotely interested in is the solo (heh) Ben Solo content, without any other ST baggage. Yes including Rey - their chance of telling the Reylo story was in the ST and they’ve blown it. Sadly I don’t really see this content happening when it would pretty much be a loud acknowledgment that the rest of the new ST characters are total failures.

KK’s quote could be corporate speak along the lines of “Rian’s trilogy is still totally happening”.

Saracene wrote:The only ST-related thing I’d be even remotely interested in is the solo (heh) Ben Solo content, without any other ST baggage. Yes including Rey - their chance of telling the Reylo story was in the ST and they’ve blown it. Sadly I don’t really see this content happening when it would pretty much be a loud acknowledgment that the rest of the new ST characters are total failures.

KK’s quote could be corporate speak along the lines of “Rian’s trilogy is still totally happening”.

@Saracene

Have to agree with you there...a lot of reylos I know are preferring to pretend TROS Rey doesn't exist.

Reylo lost its heart and soul for me with TROS. The Rey I liked most, funnily enough, was TFA Rey - she was great in TLJ right up until she reached for that lightsabre on the Supremacy. I think Adam's acting was what did it for me; he put so much heart into that 'please' that I actually cried. I still think, despite TLJ being my favourite all time SW film, that they should have actually had Rey take up his offer - it would have been completely out of the blue, and left some amazing directions they could have gone in with episode nine.

I've been so 'burned' by DLF and TROS that having KK saying the 'sequel characters aren't done yet' only makes me suspect she is referring to Rey and Finn, and possibly Poe. I know Daisy was quoted as saying she 'wished there could have been more Trio' throughout the ST.

Which makes me wonder...did she actually watch her own films?

For me, TRoS simply made it sink in that Rey was always an empty shell of a character starting with TFA, and that the future potential every movie was dangling was just a mirage, because the foundation was faulty to begin with. Everything I really liked about Rey was down to Daisy’s wonderful performance - but a character can’t be saved by a charming performance alone. The rude fanboys were rude and awful, but in the end their gut instinct about Rey in TFA was right, sad to say.

ST’s failure is honestly so fascinating I still can’t let it go even after passing through the stages of disappointment. It should be taught somewhere as a lesson on how to -not- make a follow up to a beloved trilogy (even though there are still parts of the ST I love).

Regarding Daisy's charm, you are right - she carried the character but sadly even that wasn't enough. Finn had potential, but he was written too 'humorous' for a brainwashed child soldier. And Poe...well enough said.
It still could have worked if they'd followed up some of what Rian started - Finn leading a ST rebellion, Kylo struggling to lead while Hux searched for a way to get rid of him, more 'grey' Rey, General Poe being a lot harsher than Leia, and the idea of a future where there we no Jedi or Sith but a new 'order' where there was a balance between light and dark - but they chose a completely different way forward. The fact is, they killed off SW's most memorable character. And he was the most memorable - I could have watched 100 films, read 100 books, about Kylo/Ben.

By the time the ST was finished I had had more than my fill of the Trio. For me, there's nothing left to tell about them. Ben Solo's story meanwhile, was just beginning.

On a lighter note, here's how I viewed the ST:
TFA  
TLJ  
TROS

Apparently Adam is potentially willing to still do franchises/SW.

https://www.unilad.co.uk/featured/adam-driver-reveals-first-thing-he-bought-with-his-actors-paycheck/




I know Daisy said she's fine where it left off but I think she could be convinced, especially after a while.

Thing is...Daisy was the one who went around saying she 'couldn't get behind reylo' and 'Rey doesn't need a boyfriend.

She also stated she'd only come back if the rest of the 'Trio' did.

I have to agree with Saracene that post TROS the only character I really want to see again is Ben Solo....unless they could find room for Rose.

motherofpearl1 wrote:Thing is...Daisy was the one who went around saying she 'couldn't get behind reylo' and 'Rey doesn't need a boyfriend.

She also stated she'd only come back if the rest of the 'Trio' did.

I have to agree with Saracene that post TROS the only character I really want to see again is Ben Solo....unless they could find room for Rose.

@motherofpearl1

No way you will get much of Rose. They are playing it safe now. I could see them doing animated child/teen Ben Solo with Luke. That should be a safe story.