Official TROS Spoilers discussion

@MaddieDove I'm amazed that JJ represents Hollywood stereotype so well. He is so nice, so kind and so positive, so good in networking. So amazing on the surface. And so cynical, dysfunctional and talentless when it comes to actually doing his work, when it comes to real actions and decisions which he always promotes with such sincere spirit.

From disgusting baiting for black fans in TFA promo to baiting Kelly's fans with smile on his face while knowing that he completely sidelined her - for everything somehow there is always reason why JJ is not personally responsible. For years and years he makes actors and marketing cynically lie and it gets always forgotten somehow!

Somehow... Palpatine has returned!

TROS wasn't really kind to TFA or even the OT, let alone the EU. Combined with the new quotes describing things that really don't match with the actual movie, let alone having even internal consistency, it struck me mostly as tone-deaf and unaware, and JJ and certain others are rather tactless in interviews. Still don't know why they thought the TLJ whiners represented most of the audience, wonder what they think of the even less enthusiastic response to TROS. Like they live in such a weird little bubble they don't even realize what they're doing or how they come off while they do it.

They've also disrespected George Lucas. After the grilling he got because of the PT, he sold his company believing they could do better.
Unfortunately, they wanted the Star Wars universe, but not the Skywalker saga.

The prequels big fail was the script - but their plotlines were superb. George gave us a Shakespearian tragedy built around the failings of a religious sect that made the mistake of being complacent, while adhering to a stale, restrictive culture.
Thanks to Lawrence Kasdan, the first in the sequel trilogy was a fresh and exciting start to a promising trilogy. It introduced three terrific characters in Finn, Rey and Kylo - who should have been the REAL trio.

Rian Johnson took these foundations and built possibly the most cerebral, thought provoking SW film ever. He followed on from Lucas's vision of the Jedi becoming too rigid in their dogma while truly exploring the theatre of war by showing the 'heroes'as being willing to compromise their ethics and the villains as human? He took Poe, Daisy and Finn and expanded them, while truly developing Kylo into an unforgettable anti hero. He gave Mark Hamill the opportunity to act his life out as Luke, a man who had matured from an idealistic youth into a battle fatigued man who had realised what Lucas hinted at in the PT. - the Jedi needed to develop, to accept our faults as well as our good points, but most of all to recognise that the only way forwards was by combining both sides of the Force, accepting that without darkness there can be no light.

TROS ruined everything. It completely regressed it's characters. It ignored Lucas's own message about the Jedi's terrible failures. But most of all, it turned Lucas's original saga of hope into a dreary depressing slice of tiresome political correctness. Rey didn't save the day because of what she could do, but because of her gender. This is not a positive message for young girls, and neither is the one that claims real women should spend their lives as solitary virgins because they don't need men'. Or love. Or family.
Most of all they completely erased the last of SWs first family. And to add insult to injury made their heroine a descendant of their worst enemy.
Disney wanted SW. But not the Skywalker family.
They thought they could do better.
They were wrong.

I don't think they had Rey succeed at everything because of her gender, but because she's a Palpatine in some entirely nonsensical yet also entirely unexplained and shoehorned manner, therefore everything is justified. It's usually TLJ I see get accused of being politically correct. Also they had her do whatever it was that Luke did, regardless of differences in context or character. Same for Ben dying, they did it without much thought it seems, it was the thing that happened before so it's the thing that happens now. Hard to believe it's really that simple, but yeah.

Disney's #1 priority is making money, so a sole purpose of inflicting pain on the audience doesn't track. But they had no idea what people wanted (even if I'm not sure how that's possible), so pain was the end result anyway.

IMO Rey as a character on paper is absolute product of sexism and gender-based essentialism. Rey - and the characters people usually call Mary Sue - was born out of compensation for lack of diverse complicated "focus" female characters. Due to limited representation in the past which could have created solid cultural background for nuanced and interesting characters, writers (including fanfiction) were creating all-powerful female characters that will get it all.

Those writers (of all genders) are fighting their inner sexism, sexist traditions in real world and biodeternism that shaped female characters templates in the audience's mind. As a result of this 3D mind battle, they create characters they believe will be the answer to all those prejudices. Instead of a character that can represent a real human and resonate through failures and weaknesses, they are giving birth to caricatures.

This happens to male characters too, of course, just as there are simply more diverse legendary male characters with hundreds years of history and impact on worldwide culture, people react to female Mary Sues stronger.

The most telling thing is the way Riddley was trembling about her character being representation for young girls. This sentiment is all over the place behind Rey. If you write a character with dominating thought about rare chance of representation which everybody calls "an event", could this character be less than perfect? That's how decent heroic character becomes so symbolic that it's impossible to care about him/her on personal level.

I mean, All Powerful Rey Nobody Palpatine Skywalker Who Did Everything Skywalker Couldn't Do, Killed Her Powerful As Devil Relative in Truest Jedi Glory, Became Adoptive Daughter Of Popular Characters While Being 23, Got Her Lover-Enemy to Give His life For Her and Replaced All Skywalkers. She Is So Good And Perfect That She Even Doesn't Need To Mourn Her Soulmate.

I thought she was doing fairly well until TROS, which really did reduce her to not much appealing, though I agree all concerned were hyperaware of the role model for little girls angle. When Birds of Prey came out I saw a comment about how it would be great if every female-led blockbuster wasn't this huge life-or-death scenario for representation. Captain Marvel, SW, every one of these has to prove it can make all the money, get all the best reviews, and all the positive fan response or it's deemed a failure for the entire gender (same thing happens to representation of any marginalized group), and therefore women can't star in big movies. It's like a curse.

special_cases wrote:IMO Rey as a character on paper is absolute product of sexism and gender-based essentialism. Rey - and the characters people usually call Mary Sue - was born out of compensation for lack of diverse complicated "focus" female characters. Due to limited representation in the past which could have created solid cultural background for nuanced and interesting characters, writers (including fanfiction) were creating all-powerful female characters that will get it all.

Those writers (of all genders) are fighting their inner sexism, sexist traditions in real world and biodeternism that shaped female characters templates in the audience's mind. As a result of this 3D mind battle, they create characters they believe will be the answer to all those prejudices. Instead of a character that can represent a real human and resonate through failures and weaknesses, they are giving birth to caricatures.

This happens to male characters too, of course, just as there are simply more diverse legendary male characters with hundreds years of history and impact on worldwide culture, people react to female Mary Sues stronger.

The most telling thing is the way Riddley was trembling about her character being representation for young girls. This sentiment is all over the place behind Rey. If you write a character with dominating thought about rare chance of representation which everybody calls "an event", could this character be less than perfect? That's how decent heroic character becomes so symbolic that it's impossible to care about him/her on personal level.

I mean, All Powerful Rey Nobody Palpatine Skywalker Who Did Everything Skywalker Couldn't Do, Killed Her Powerful As Devil Relative in Truest Jedi Glory, Became Adoptive Daughter Of Popular Characters While Being 23, Got Her Lover-Enemy to Give His life For Her and Replaced All Skywalkers. She Is So Good And Perfect That She Even Doesn't Need To Mourn Her Soulmate.

@special_cases

All of this!

I think this happens to characters whom either their creators burden with being a positive role model (which is really an euphemism for unattainable superhuman perfection) or audience has such expectation of the character because he or she is an ideal representation of them and writers are afraid to mess up with perfect image. Hero Worship Syndrome. Among male characters, I'd say that T'Challa/Black Panther fell victim to this in his own movie. he was always righteous, never wrong, if he faced a setback, it was only because someone betrayed him but not because he wasn't farsighted enough to anticipate betrayal even if the traitor spelled out to him what would happen should he fail, things basically just happened for him to react, etc. Therefore, all the interesting characterization was transferred to secondary characters especially the villain (Eric/N'Jadaka/Killmonder) because audience didn't have such expectation of that character so the writer had freedom to go interesting places. he also ended up the character most movie goers identified with. In Rey's case, all interesting writing happened with Kylo because there was no expectation that he should be perfect. I'd say Finn and Poe also suffered because of "positive representation>>>> characterization" that, in the end, wasn't even that positive. The reason for all this is insecurity. A confident writer will take the risk and create an actual character which is what Wonder Woman team did. Despite expectations for WW to be a caricature twitter feminist icon (no romance, all men bad, strongest/smartest/best etc), the character ended up very human and relatable without above mentioned "strong woman" cliches that are ruining female characters. So yes, it can be done but it requires confident film-makers who see that good characterization = good representation.

SW_Heroine_Journey wrote:Disappointing words from Co-Producer Michelle Rejwan, and I will not be surprised if KK agrees.  Wish I could celebrate them at LF, yet if this is their attitude/outlook, I hope Jon F & Dave F are in leadership roles soon (they get it - about Campbell, myth and fairy tales a lot more)

https://twitter.com/alderaanbraids/status/1238684264662626304

White Woke Feminism is really the worst.. sigh

@SW_Heroine_Journey

She was grinning while talking about "how it was a tragedy that they literally wasted Adam and the potential of having him/Ben for a long term yada yada" like a parrot that repeated what people taught it, her body language didn't give me any good sign. I heard that KK is grooming her to be the next president of LFL after KK is gone, it's like an absolute monarchy sith, d*mn. Is it that hard for them put people with talent like Deborah Chow or Patty Jenkins in charge of SW films?

I heard that KK is grooming her to be the next president of LFL after KK is gone

I hope this is not true. I had hope for better SW times in the future.

californiagirl wrote:I thought she was doing fairly well until TROS, which really did reduce her to not much appealing, though I agree all concerned were hyperaware of the role model for little girls angle. When Birds of Prey came out I saw a comment about how it would be great if every female-led blockbuster wasn't this huge life-or-death scenario for representation. Captain Marvel, SW, every one of these has to prove it can make all the money, get all the best reviews, and all the positive fan response or it's deemed a failure for the entire gender (same thing happens to representation of any marginalized group), and therefore women can't star in big movies. It's like a curse.

@californiagirl

I think Rey was doing well for a lot of us until TROS because a lot of us were willing to cut some slack for creators. We knew that this is a tough job because of SW popularity. But the main condition behind cutting some slack was a faith in creators' good intentions. I close my eyes on some mischaracterizations in TLJ because I can understand RJ's thought process, why he sacrificed X,  focused on Y and ignored Z. I can understand what he was trying to do on thematical level and I can forgive some mess in execution (the same goes to George). I've never had a good faith in JJ because I knew that best parts of TFA came from Kasdan, actors and George's ideas that JJ imitated. The only great thing JJ did in TFA was Real Trio's intro -- so trailer stuff JJ usually makes instead of making a film.

What we wasn't sure of is that JJ's intention was always to make his female protagonist a Luuke, without even understanding on basic level what made Luke a compelling protagonist and his story inspiring. Young naive man trying to save his father and losing him after that in bittersweet manner is something that millions of people can relate on personal level. Young naive woman killing her grandfather in cold blood and then losing her soulmate without need to mourn him or even remember him is something that only psychopaths and AI can relate to. Nothing matters in Rey's story because, unlike in Luke's story, part of audience doesn't even believe that Rey is a Palpatina or that Rey had a soulmate.

I want my first female protagonist to be a carbon copy of the popular male protagonist. How progressive.

I'm going back to the 80s and 90s here, but two of the best female characters I've seen on film are Ellen Ripley in Aliens and Sarah Connor in the Terminator franchise, but I was horrified at what they did in Dark Fate.

Neither of them were saints. And both had love interests, tragically for Sarah, but it was pretty obvious Michael Biehn's character was being set up as a possible love interest for Ripley, until they blew it with Alien 3.

I've recently watched a Gothic thriller on Netflix called the Frankenstein Chronicles. Sean Bean, who stars, was terrific, but for me the show stealer was Richie Campbell, who played a fellow detective. Richie's black. But that wasn't the extent of his character. He was flawed,heroic, bitter brave, and tragic , and he was great.
You can't just shove female and people of colour into a movie, and expect people to immediately warm to them because they're diverse. You have to write great characters for them. Finn had so much potential, but JJ threw away what should have been his story and gave it to Jannah. Then Poe got most of the scenes other than Rey in TROS and Finn was relegated to running around shouting"Rey!"
for most of the film.. John Boyega might moan about Rian, but he can blame JJ for losing most of his screen time to Poe. And frankly, Finn just didn't have any sexual chemistry with Rey - Kylo did.

I can't help but think that George Lucas intended Luke to be the main character in the OT but he never cut Harrison's scenes in the films to push Luke, as Abrams did with Rey and Kylo. Han Solo had his own story arc, and even when Harrison wanted him killed off, George refused. In contrast Terrio and Abrams shoved the best character aside to make way for the Trio, which was a big mistake. Mark, Carrie and Harrison were lightning in a bottle - their chemistry was exceptional. Trying to emulate that with TROS was a huge mistake. Rian cleverly avoided this in TLJ by giving them each their day in the sun. Despite Daisy wanting more screen time with her friends, if it's to be believed, Finn, Rey, and Poe worked better when they were separated.

What truly bugs me is LF refuse to accept their mistakes, as shown in their irritating pushing of the Trio in trailers and marketing.

Sorry guys, but showing them down our throats isn't going to endear them to us any more!

The sad part is that I liked Rey because she wasn't Luke, despite the paralells, rather how Kylo has parallels to Vader but is very much not Vader. And they didn't get that. The TLJ tantrum folk were mad that Luke wasn't the way they wanted, and Rey herself wasn't Luke, so they kind of fused them in TROS in response. Thank goodness they both had good actors, I think that will stand the test of time.

But I don't know why people expected a different ending for the video release. That's assuming there was already one made in the first place. Unless the implication is to write one over the holidays, assemble the unenthused cast including a sad Daisy, take Adam away from his awards season parade, film it, edit it, and put it on blu-rays by a March release. Having said that, some people caught from the new doc that Adam was there on the last day of filming, leading some to believe he was filmed on the Resistance base. Interesting idea.

we knew that Adam was there on the last day of filming because his make-up artist leaked it unintentionally together with the bruise/cut/blood/burn make-up kit. No doubt they filmed Ben's death scene. Daisy said that the scene she filme don the last day (which was the same day, Feb 15) was very emotional.

They never confirmed when he filmed his last scene. Only that Daisy wrapped up the last, John wrapped up a day or so earlier and oscar wrapped up earlier than that.

californiagirl wrote:The sad part is that I liked Rey because she wasn't Luke, despite the paralells, rather how Kylo has parallels to Vader but is very much not Vader. And they didn't get that. The TLJ tantrum folk were mad that Luke wasn't the way they wanted, and Rey herself wasn't Luke, so they kind of fused them in TROS in response. Thank goodness they both had good actors, I think that will stand the test of time.

But I don't know why people expected a different ending for the video release. That's assuming there was already one made in the first place. Unless the implication is to write one over the holidays, assemble the unenthused cast including a sad Daisy, take Adam away from his awards season parade, film it, edit it, and put it on blu-rays by a March release. Having said that, some people caught from the new doc that Adam was there on the last day of filming, leading some to believe he was filmed on the Resistance base. Interesting idea.

I think it's because the Ben Solo death scene was so shoddily made. A lot of people rightly pointed out that the actual scene looks 'off', as if it was reversed, and Daisy was not so much laying him down as pulling him up.
Add to that, the frankly unbelievable fact that after that he wasn't mentioned at all. Rey never told Finn and Poe what he did for her. There was no Force ghost, no scene where Luke could have told Rey Ben was with his mother in the Force, and was happy. I've never seen a film handle a major character's death like that. Even Darth Vader had a funeral pyre.
As others, once again, pointed out, Rey cried more for Han than Ben. If there really isn't an alternate ending, and what you see is all they wrote, so to speak, then it makes the creative team look like a bunch of sociopaths. Ben Solo was a major character. Maybe they don't give a sith for the legacy characters, but they know the audience do. Adam had top billing next to Carrie, Harrison and Mark. They've done their damnedest to push Rey as the new Skywalker, but by having her character never mention Ben Solo's sacrifice, and showing her happily sliding down sand dunes with a silly smile on her face five minutes after he fed her his life force does not endear her to viewers. It makes her look like someone who casually accepts his death as her right, because apparently she's more'worthy'.
Add to that Michele smiling as if sharing a joke while describing his fate, and JJ's smirk when saying what happens to him is 'fun'......and I feel like I'm watching a pair of spiteful school bullies who deliberately chose to kill off a much loved character because they liked upsetting people.

Sad that a saga built on hope, and family, should end like this.

OrionStars wrote:

SW_Heroine_Journey wrote:Disappointing words from Co-Producer Michelle Rejwan, and I will not be surprised if KK agrees.  Wish I could celebrate them at LF, yet if this is their attitude/outlook, I hope Jon F & Dave F are in leadership roles soon (they get it - about Campbell, myth and fairy tales a lot more)

https://twitter.com/alderaanbraids/status/1238684264662626304

White Woke Feminism is really the worst.. sigh

@SW_Heroine_Journey

She was grinning while talking about "how it was a tragedy that they literally wasted Adam and the potential of having him/Ben for a long term yada yada" like a parrot that repeated what people taught it, her body language didn't give me any good sign. I heard that KK is grooming her to be the next president of LFL after KK is gone, it's like an absolute monarchy sith, d*mn. Is it that hard for them put people with talent like Deborah Chow or Patty Jenkins in charge of SW films?

@OrionStars

I wish it wasn't! I'd love to see Patty Jenkins or Deborah Chow as President of LF!

If there is a silver lining, I am beginning to see the realization from the Reylo family that KK is most likely not innocent because of Michelle Rejwan's outlook.  They most likely share the same opinion.  I know it's difficult to acknowledge for many that KK is not an ally...we were wrong, when we thought she was one.  

Ugh, I really hope MR does not receive the leadership opportunity for LF.  Jon F and/or Dave F will be much better. True, they are white guys (I want diversity in leadership, but not at a great cost), yet Jon F/Dave F understand the mythology; they are more qualified.    (It breaks my heart to acknowledge that female leadership does not always equal female gaze.)

motherofpearl1 wrote:
Add to that, the frankly unbelievable fact that after that he wasn't mentioned at all. Rey never told Finn and Poe what he did for her. There was no Force ghost, no scene where Luke could have told Rey Ben was with his mother in the Force, and was happy. I've never seen a film handle a major character's death like that. Even Darth Vader had a funeral pyre.

I think that they just wanted to be over and done with the movie and weren't really thinking how it all comes together. This is the same people who kept Finn trying to tell rey something that never got the payoff. You either remove it all or keep it all. But editing was so bad and amateurish it felt like they made random hatchet cuts.

Filoni might not be great with romance, or sometimes even female characters, but he understands SW and mythology better than almost anyone, and isn't afraid to make things that are strange and experimental, or goofy, or for kids. I don't see him directing a live action film soon, and his Mandalorian episodes were more critiqued than the others, but everything I just said also sounds like George. Except Filoni I don't think would have all the power as GL did, it could be a nice balance between him and others. The only part I dislike about it is that the vengeful fanboy type would see it as a victory to replace KK, with the "women and SJWs ruined SW" thing. Patty Jenkins has WW, and while I would also be down with Deborah Chow, she would likely be deemed too inexperienced. So sad Kiri Hart is gone.

It's nuts to think they didn't realize how beloved Ben Solo was, and I'm sure they have numbers to back it up, but much of TROS seems like it was made in their personal bubble, as opposed to financial or even fan-centered reality. Qui-Gon got a funeral pyre as Vader did, Obi-Wan got a disembodied voice in ANH, and he, Yoda, and Anakin were all ghosts in ROTJ, plus Luke and Leia in TROS. But Ben, nothin'. Even though they acknowledge him as a Skywalker. Nothing tracks.

There might or might not be deleted content, though they've confirmed they never did ghost!Ben, and that the Rey and Ben shot wasn't reversed. It's not hard to see why all the conspiracies fly, the editing and rushed, unfinished nature of the movie makes it look like there was something else. Some of the conversations look like they were stitched together from separate things entirely, the reversed Pasaana shot at the end, and so forth.

I honestly don't believe them when they claim that there were no alternative shots. I don't believe them because I can't accept that it was meant to be so rubbish.

The quality of filming is worse than a low budget B movie. How on earth can so called professionals make such an inept film, especially with the budget they had.
Do they think we are so enamored of the franchise that we'd accept this truly dreadful mess as canon? That this is the best they can do?

They deserve the sack, the lot of them.

Please, people, I'm begging you... Why and when it was decided that Filoni might be a great choice? He had zero personal style, he is an imitator who couldn't develop his own artistic personality in 10 years, and his Ahsoka is the best example of Hero Worship Syndrome... I don't even want talk about romance... I can't imagine Filone pushing or producing or writing a bold, interesting story. Could you?

I never watched his cartoons so I don't know. I only watched that WBW episode and bits and pieces of Mortis I think.

I wouldn't want Filoni directing a full movie in any near future, he's still trying to make his own directed TV episodes work, nor am I sure he's really an executive. But I can see him ascending to some higher level of creative influence in LF, whether we want it or not. He's like the opposite of KK in some ways. I don't see him making some grimdark SW for whiny middle aged fanboys, is what I mean. TROS and it's ilk is not his forte. Like that clip of Freddie Prinz Jr. going off about how Rebels and SW were for kids. And Favreau is too in demand, and has too many interests, to take over LF. He's more of a director/writer anyway.

special_cases wrote:Please, people, I'm begging you... Why and when it was decided that Filoni might be a great choice? He had zero personal style, he is an imitator who couldn't develop his own artistic personality in 10 years, and his Ahsoka is the best example of Hero Worship Syndrome... I don't even want talk about romance... I can't imagine Filone pushing or producing or writing a bold, interesting story. Could you?

@special_cases

I like Filoni, maybe ( definitely) not with any romance but I think he tends to "get" Star Wars.

Omg one person on Twitter found old article with JJ comments about Star Wars

“It’s funny how in a weird way sometimes by demystifying a character it takes away from some of the fun that you felt about that character. It takes the mystery out of it. Sometimes a character is more interesting when you don’t know everything about them. Even someone from my generation — and I’m ancient compared to so many of the Star Wars fans that are out there — for me the character of Darth Vader was always so compelling because you were putting together all these thing in your head and making all these assumptions that to get to know Anakin as much as we ultimately did, changes the way you consider Darth Vader. It’s crazy to me that my kids relate to Anakin; which to me is criminal because I grew up believing Vader is a bad guy. I related to Luke and Leia and Han Solo. You don’t relate to Vader! I still think it’s wrong to be on Anakin’s side. So I guess there’s no one character I can point to and say that I want to know more about him or her, it’s just that Star Wars is so vast it would be great to find characters that have that level of emotional intimacy.”

My favorite thing about Star Wars is the ability to tell an incredibly personal, intimate, and emotional story against a backdrop of conflict and battle that’s planetary and massive. What I would love to see is a story about characters that I am desperately entertained by and definitely care about, and keep that story as focused as possible and make more of that than the pyrotechnics of it all which to me is what makes Star Wars so brilliant. If it’s a TV show, that’s terrific. If it’s animated I’m all for it. If it’s a radio show or a video game or an online experience — whatever it is I would love to discover in this vast universe some new characters that make me feel the way that Luke, Leia, and Han Solo did

“Obviously, his fall was inevitable and you learn that from the early films,” Abrams says. “You know it’s going to happen and watching it happen is tragic. What’s fascinating to me is that I grew up in a time when my friends related to Luke and now, my kids relate to Anakin. There is an interesting social comment there — that when I grew up the hero was an optimistic young neophyte who becomes this hero and the new generation’s hero is a strong-willed, ambitious and ultimately vilified protagonist who is misled and, for reasons of ego and heartbreak, literally becomes the very villain that my generation fought against.”

“It was absolutely the first film that struck a cord and that resonates to this day,” Abrams continues. “I think it’s because everyone relates to being stuck in your life and feeling like something extraordinary is just around the corner. To have something scary and tragic happen, like WHAT HAPPENS TO LUKE'S AUNT AND UNCLE [excuse me, WTF???], is such an engaging story that could take place on a farm in the middle of the U.S. and be just as compelling. And the fact that he ends up being the key to preventing this galactic takeover is kind of an amazing wish fulfillment. I think this taps into a universal desire that we all have to find meaning and purpose that is larger than what we ever could have imagined.”

https://www.starwars.com/news/director-j-j-abrams-and-his-lifelong-appreciation-of-star-wars

Why the person who thinks that Prequels are unnecessary, who doesn't understand why their own kids relate to Anakin and who doesn't understand that Star Wars is Anakin\Vader story was given TWO Skywalker movies to make???

You know what makes me laugh (sarcastically)?
JJ said he identified with Luke and Leia. And Han. Yet he killed off Han's son. And if he really had any affection for Leia why did he write her as an abysmal mother who packed her son off to train with Luke yet was quite happy to train Rey?

I honestly would have thought that he had Kylo/Ben murder his father so he'd have an excuse to kill him off at the end of TROS, if it wasn't that it stated unequivocally that Kylo was devasted with guilt to the extent it affected his fighting skills afterwards. But I suspect that was Kasdan. If there is one thing I really find contemptible is he actually thought what they did regarding Ben's fate as 'fun'. He knew full well how popular Ben Solo was with kids, abuse victims, and mentally ill people among others. Yet he thought it was funny to break their hearts at Christmas, of all times.
I'm mentally ill, but fortunately I'm old enough to get over what they did, but even I will never forget or forgive simply because SW meant a lot to me thanks to its association with my childhood. This wasn't just a one off film, like Rogue One. It was the end of a forty two year old saga that originally preached a message of hope. How on earth they can see killing off the last descendant of the heroes is hopeful and satisfying is beyond belief. It's tainted every film in the series.
And I'm actually insulted if they think it's what we women would want. I wanted a strong, sympathetic and most of all relatable heroine. Not a Mary Sue who can only achieve greatness by stealing everything off someone else, including his life.