Rogue One - Spoilers Allowed

i'm not great at articulating these things sometimes so i'm reading and watching reviews, like the ones people leave here ... andi'm having stuckmann explain to me why i didn't connect with this, sort of anyway.

he makes a point of saying that star wars being so abjectly special means it's measured by a higher standard than other movies, and that the characters aren't really telling you anything new from when we meet them to where we leave them. both of which i agree with.

and yeah @cienaree lyra going back to pretty much surely be killed is a total copout and really lazy writing in a film that had a lot of lazy writing IMHO. it makes her look utterly stupid and it's foreshadowing the suicide mission or something XD

Sylvia Snow wrote:So, Vader's castle have a name, it's called "the Dark Monolith" and it was built above a natural Sith Cave that holds its own dangerous secrets

It is described as Darth's own personal hideaway, and is 'an obsidian tower on an inhospitable world' .The Emperor actually demands that Vader live in such an unforgiving nightmare of a place to help fuel his rage and anger. Darth Vader has an assistant on Mustafar named Vanee, who watches over the Dark Lord whenever he meditates in his rejuvenation chamber. The home is said to be a 'stark, modern structure built over an ancient castle full of dark secrets wrote:

@Sylvia Snow

Where did you get this?

Darth_Awakened wrote:

Sylvia Snow wrote:So, Vader's castle have a name, it's called "the Dark Monolith" and it was built above a natural Sith Cave that holds its own dangerous secrets

It is described as Darth's own personal hideaway, and is 'an obsidian tower on an inhospitable world' .The Emperor actually demands that Vader live in such an unforgiving nightmare of a place to help fuel his rage and anger. Darth Vader has an assistant on Mustafar named Vanee, who watches over the Dark Lord whenever he meditates in his rejuvenation chamber. The home is said to be a 'stark, modern structure built over an ancient castle full of dark secrets wrote:

@Sylvia Snow

Where did you get this?

@Darth_Awakened

http://movieweb.com/rogue-one-darth-vader-castle-mustafar-secrets-details/

Sylvia Snow wrote:

Darth_Awakened wrote:

Sylvia Snow wrote:So, Vader's castle have a name, it's called "the Dark Monolith" and it was built above a natural Sith Cave that holds its own dangerous secrets

@Sylvia Snow

Thanks,

Despite mowieweb being a click-bait site - They are claiming that they used The visual guide, written by Pablo, as a source for some of it. The name for example.

Where did you get this?

@Darth_Awakened

http://movieweb.com/rogue-one-darth-vader-castle-mustafar-secrets-details/

@Sylvia Snow

They used Pablo's visual guide for R1 as a source for part of it, as it seems.

Darth_Awakened wrote:

Sylvia Snow wrote:

Darth_Awakened wrote:

Sylvia Snow wrote:So, Vader's castle have a name, it's called "the Dark Monolith" and it was built above a natural Sith Cave that holds its own dangerous secrets

@Sylvia Snow

Thanks,

Despite mowieweb being a click-bait site - They are claiming that they used The visual guide, written by Pablo, as a source for some of it. The name for example.

Where did you get this?

@Darth_Awakened

http://movieweb.com/rogue-one-darth-vader-castle-mustafar-secrets-details/

@Sylvia Snow

They used Pablo's visual guide for R1 as a source for part of it, as it seems.

@Darth_Awakened

In the German version of the visual guide it is indeed called "dark monolith" and "obsidian tower".It also says, that it was built above an old tower full of dark secrets. The word "Sith" isn't mentioned.

Darth_Awakened wrote:

Sylvia Snow wrote:

Darth_Awakened wrote:

Sylvia Snow wrote:So, Vader's castle have a name, it's called "the Dark Monolith" and it was built above a natural Sith Cave that holds its own dangerous secrets

@Sylvia Snow

Thanks,

Despite mowieweb being a click-bait site - They are claiming that they used The visual guide, written by Pablo, as a source for some of it. The name for example.

Where did you get this?

@Darth_Awakened

http://movieweb.com/rogue-one-darth-vader-castle-mustafar-secrets-details/

@Sylvia Snow

They used Pablo's visual guide for R1 as a source for part of it, as it seems.

@Darth_Awakened

Apparently so, and the while I don't know if this is totally reliable or not. But I think I like the idea that the Vader's castle built on Mustafar not by his choice but the Emperor as some sort of punishment. It's show the dysfunctional relationship between them, how Palpatine only keeping Vader around as long as he still useful and how Vader planning to overthrow the emperor himself, as depicted in some comics

@EchoBase Maybe since it was described as an old castle with dark secrets, people jumped to a conclusion that it have something to do with the Sith

@Irina de France, I think we must be twins separated at birth, because we agree on so many things that it's positively eerie...

imagine me like i haven't seen ANH in centuries and i couldn't recite it and whatnot...

can someone explain to me why the ground personnel, the people who weren't on rogue one, why they all turned out to be ugly old men? i feel like the mission was sort of neatly divided into relatively hot white males on rogue one (the ones who weren't identified by name, i mean) and the old dudes on the ground arguing that it was a suicide mission.

and also, did anyone think that the blind dude couldn't be a jedi because he was blind? like, what is the explanation for his force sensitivity and having received some kind of weapons training but not being a jedi? are the jedi disablist? like, he's good enough to guard the temple but not good enough to be a jedi?

guardienne wrote:and also, did anyone think that the blind dude couldn't be a jedi because he was blind? like, what is the explanation for his force sensitivity and having received some kind of weapons training but not being a jedi? are the jedi disablist? like, he's good enough to guard the temple but not good enough to be a jedi?

@guardienne

I saw Rogue One with my cousin, who has read many of the EU books (which I have not).  I was wondering the same thing, why wasn't Chirrut a Jedi?  My cousin said in the EU there are all kinds of Force users who are not Jedi.  That the Jedi way is a set of religious beliefs that not every Force user embraces.

Sacrebleu wrote:

guardienne wrote:and also, did anyone think that the blind dude couldn't be a jedi because he was blind? like, what is the explanation for his force sensitivity and having received some kind of weapons training but not being a jedi? are the jedi disablist? like, he's good enough to guard the temple but not good enough to be a jedi?

@guardienne

I saw Rogue One with my cousin, who has read many of the EU books (which I have not).  I was wondering the same thing, why wasn't Chirrut a Jedi?  My cousin said in the EU there are all kinds of Force users who are not Jedi.  That the Jedi way is a set of religious beliefs that not every Force user embraces.

@Sacrebleu

I think that they are going to the same thing in the new canon. The expansion of users of the Force, not strictly Jedi and Sith.

As to old guys being in the ground while young in the action - I think it's pretty common thing in the military and war stuff not just in the movies.
It's hard to imagine 60 or so (ugly or not) experienced general being in front rows.

Darth_Awakened wrote:

Sacrebleu wrote:

guardienne wrote:and also, did anyone think that the blind dude couldn't be a jedi because he was blind? like, what is the explanation for his force sensitivity and having received some kind of weapons training but not being a jedi? are the jedi disablist? like, he's good enough to guard the temple but not good enough to be a jedi?

@guardienne

I saw Rogue One with my cousin, who has read many of the EU books (which I have not).  I was wondering the same thing, why wasn't Chirrut a Jedi?  My cousin said in the EU there are all kinds of Force users who are not Jedi.  That the Jedi way is a set of religious beliefs that not every Force user embraces.

@Sacrebleu

I think that they are going to the same thing in the new canon. The expansion of users of the Force, not strictly Jedi and Sith.

@Darth_Awakened

That's my guess, as well.  According to my cousin, TFA and Rogue One have already borrowed heavily from the EU.

I thought they did well with the casting for Jyn. Felicity Jones has that naturally haunting, slightly melancholic look about her.

Like Rey, Jyn’s arc though is unnecessarily muddled (why can’t anyone write a clear simple arc in these new blockbusters??). Ok… so she loses her family and is taken in by Saw, who effectively raises her and makes her a part of the Rebellion. Then he abandons her when she’s 16, and you presume she went, “ok screw this Rebellion for treating me like sith, I’m on my own now”. So then her Rebellion drama should really be about her adoptive father who raised her and then betrayed her… except that instead she gets involved with the Rebellion again because she learns that her real father built in a flaw into the Death Star? Which has absolutely nothing to do with her past disappointment with the Rebellion and Saw? It’s like, there should be drama in there but her past with Saw is in the film merely for plot purposes, so that Jyn can meet with characters A, B and C, and the film acts like this is really the first time Jyn joins the Rebels. BTW, why exactly does Saw decide that he’s tired of running and chooses to die, instead of getting on that ship with everyone else? There seems to be no real reason for him to do so, other than the script demands him to die at that point.

If they wanted to make Jyn’s drama about her father, why not just have her be a member of the Rebellion and believer in the cause, who thinks that her father is a despicable traitor but then finds out that he’s not? It’s like, if Jyn doesn’t really care about the Empire vs Rebellion, why would she care if her father works for the Empire? And if she and the audience know right from the start that Galen is taken by force, there’s no real reversal or punch to the revelation that he actually built in a flaw to sabotage the whole thing.

What I really, really like about Rogue One - and I haven't seen the whole film yet - is it has a cast predominantly of people from ethnic backgrounds and a female leader and it's no big deal. This isn't Star Wars being 'politically correct'- this is a cast of good actors playing great characters and that's what it's all about.This is true equality, which they've already explored with TFA and I love it. No wonder the 'neo Nazis' hate it,because it throws all their vile justifications under a bus!

i have more questions. always more questions.

why on earth were all the dudes in deeply humiliating onesies shot but not mads mikkelsen? and why was he not wearing a onesie? and why on earth did they all seem to come from a generic old dude source? what is up with that.

@saracene i think i was going to ask whether that was really the case as you described or whether i'd missed something. it's soooo muddled.

but really, so, the rebellistance finds out that galen sent a message to their extremists and jyn is the only one who gets the message but really they didn't want the message but instead take out saw anyway, right? so they use jyn as bait to get in? is that what this was? and once jyn gets the message (ha) she is convinced that her father is not a traitor, like everyone has been assuming (have they?) and so she believes him but the council doesn't right? but then once they have got into the maledives archive tower, like, it makes sense to get involved? did i miss a bit where this suddenly made more sense or the council was simply ignored?

like, there is a scene between mon mothma and bail organa i assume this was done there? something about obi-wan?

in retrospect, the time i was seriously taken out of the movie was when lyra decided to carry a blaster all the way to the finish line and then to hold it instead of shooting it. what is up with these people. like, did she think krennic would stop his nefarious plans what with her pointing it at him and him having cover from a bunch of stormtroopers who can't aim for s*** unless you are vaguely stationary apparently. maybe all their target practice is with immovable objects.

So darth Vader has a castle? there's a castle in the KOR backstory when they are hunting for anakins saber

Vader relics would be In said castle. I'm guessing it will it tie in with the tfa?

Has mustafar surface solidified by the time kylo and co go there to fight a clan for a lightsaber?

Saracene wrote:I thought they did well with the casting for Jyn. Felicity Jones has that naturally haunting, slightly melancholic look about her.

Like Rey, Jyn’s arc though is unnecessarily muddled (why can’t anyone write a clear simple arc in these new blockbusters??). Ok… so she loses her family and is taken in by Saw, who effectively raises her and makes her a part of the Rebellion. Then he abandons her when she’s 16, and you presume she went, “ok screw this Rebellion for treating me like sith, I’m on my own now”. So then her Rebellion drama should really be about her adoptive father who raised her and then betrayed her… except that instead she gets involved with the Rebellion again because she learns that her real father built in a flaw into the Death Star? Which has absolutely nothing to do with her past disappointment with the Rebellion and Saw? It’s like, there should be drama in there but her past with Saw is in the film merely for plot purposes, so that Jyn can meet with characters A, B and C, and the film acts like this is really the first time Jyn joins the Rebels. BTW, why exactly does Saw decide that he’s tired of running and chooses to die, instead of getting on that ship with everyone else? There seems to be no real reason for him to do so, other than the script demands him to die at that point.

If they wanted to make Jyn’s drama about her father, why not just have her be a member of the Rebellion and believer in the cause, who thinks that her father is a despicable traitor but then finds out that he’s not? It’s like, if Jyn doesn’t really care about the Empire vs Rebellion, why would she care if her father works for the Empire? And if she and the audience know right from the start that Galen is taken by force, there’s no real reversal or punch to the revelation that he actually built in a flaw to sabotage the whole thing.

@Saracene
The novaliation actually gets into more details about the past history between Jyn and Saw which I agree they should have included because it establishes how Jyn once believed in the Rebellion and viewed her father as a traitor:

''You were the best soldier in my cadre,''Saw hissed.''Not because of your skill,but because you believed.Because you knew our enemy like I did.Because you were willing to die for our case and our army.''
She had believed.Saw was right about that.But that belief hadn't been preserved in the dark cave.It had withered there,dried and cracked and turned to dust.
''The Alliance?'' she said.''The rebels?Whatever you're calling yourself these days?All it's ever brought me is pain.''
Saw's throat worked with effort.His nostrils flared.He didn't reach for the oxygen mask.''You can stand to see Imperial flag reign across the galaxy?''he asked.
Jyn shrugged.
She could have walked away then;turned her back on the shadow of the man she'd known,walked into the desert and called an end to her obligations.
But Saw had hurt her.
''It's not a probelm of you don't look up,''she said.
She had seen Saw Gerrera face disloyalty before.She ahd seen him spill blood over worse offenses than her own,seen him bind and blindfold a would-be deserter and toss him from an airspeeder in front of an Imperial barracks.She knew,too,that he had hidden the worst from her-secret methods of torment and interrogation that he hadn't wished to show a fifteen-year-old girl.
She wanted to hurt him.

@CienaRee Judging by how much of the trailer footage didn't make it into the movie, I figured that a lot of Jyn's backstory got cut.

In some way, even though the filmmakers tried to do something different with RO, they haven't really budged from "a young protagonist's personal journey" and "parent/child drama" formula of the main series. It's just that it doesn't involve the Skywalkers and the Force.

I don't know if this has already been posted somewhere here already.  But a friend of mine just sent me a link to Kylo's review of Rogue One.  



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUX5q0EUtsM

Sacrebleu wrote:

Darth_Awakened wrote:

Sacrebleu wrote:

guardienne wrote:and also, did anyone think that the blind dude couldn't be a jedi because he was blind? like, what is the explanation for his force sensitivity and having received some kind of weapons training but not being a jedi? are the jedi disablist? like, he's good enough to guard the temple but not good enough to be a jedi?

@guardienne

I saw Rogue One with my cousin, who has read many of the EU books (which I have not).  I was wondering the same thing, why wasn't Chirrut a Jedi?  My cousin said in the EU there are all kinds of Force users who are not Jedi.  That the Jedi way is a set of religious beliefs that not every Force user embraces.

@Sacrebleu

I think that they are going to the same thing in the new canon. The expansion of users of the Force, not strictly Jedi and Sith.

@Darth_Awakened

That's my guess, as well.  According to my cousin, TFA and Rogue One have already borrowed heavily from the EU.

@Sacrebleu

Initially, I also vaguely wondered why Chirrut was never trained as a Jedi because I assumed the Temple of the Whills was affiliated with the Jedi and I don't think his blindness would have prevented him being a Jedi. However, I now think that while the Temple of the Whills and Jedha were important to the Jedi, they weren't necessarily affiliated directly with the Jedi (and had their own training) so it doesn't necessarily mean Chirrut would be found and taken in as a child by the Jedi. Also, apparently not all the Guardians were Force sensitive because Baze was one too, and he wasn't shown to be Force sensitive.

The Jedi recruited Force sensitives as children, but it makes sense that there were many children they never found or recruited. Siths like Palpatine, the Night sisters (except Ventress), etc. were all FS and never recruited to be Jedi.

An interesting articale about all the scenes from the trailers that didn't appear in the movie and how the reshoot might have changed them:
http://theplaylist.net/all-the-deleted-trailer-scenes-in-the-star-wars-rogue-one-suggest-a-substantial-reworked-movie-20161219/#cb-content

It's funny but as this is such an 'intense' movie I'm hoping we'll get a darker feel to Episode VIII- not too dark, I don't want to see Rey,or Finn,or Kylo suffer the same fate as Rogue One squadron - but maybe they won't shy away from some plotlines such as Kylo's possible abuse by Snoke, or the Resistance showing a 'nastier' side to them.
The possible space puffins rumour worries me though....I liked the Ewoks but not so much fluff this time around please!

Actually, I'm kind of worried that considering that TFA was kind of rushed at times and R1 even more so, Rey and Kylo's relationship development (whatever path it takes) might be rushed too. I hope I get proven wrong...

I think it'll be okay - there are three movies after all.

I actually see the story following the same as Beauty and the Beast's relationship:

Hatred - Ep VII
Pity - Ep VIII
Love - Ep IX

Lyra Erso was originally a Jedi? I guess there were hints around this that remained but I'm glad they changed it, even though I wish she hadn't died like she did. http://io9.gizmodo.com/there-was-almost-a-jedi-in-rogue-one-1790442831?rev=1482511260194&utm_campaign=socialflow_io9_twitter&utm_source=io9_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

Mrs Ben Solo wrote:Lyra Erso was originally a Jedi? I guess there were hints around this that remained but I'm glad they changed it, even though I wish she hadn't died like she did. http://io9.gizmodo.com/there-was-almost-a-jedi-in-rogue-one-1790442831?rev=1482511260194&utm_campaign=socialflow_io9_twitter&utm_source=io9_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

@Mrs Ben Solo

I'm also glad they changed Lyra's background. Her being a former Jedi almost seems a bit unimaginative and predictable in retrospect. I'm really enjoying the more expansive view of the Force, Force sensitives and believers we're getting in the ST and R1. Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of the Jedi (and the Sith) too, but I love the greater complexity that comes with different focuses on the Force and what it means.

I agree that Lyra could have played a stronger role in the story. I like how she had faith in the Force though.