Discussion: Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in TLJ

This thread is specifically for spoilers relating to our favourite character in TLJ.

In an abundance of caution, I’ll just leave this here.


According to the referenced article, Kylo has all his limbs, hands, fingers...and they cite a tweet from Pablo.

PalmettoBlue wrote:In an abundance of caution, I’ll just leave this here.


According to the referenced article, Kylo has all his limbs, hands, fingers...and they cite a tweet from Pablo.

@PalmettoBlue

Phew! That's one curse of the Skywalkers that he broke then.

nite0wl29 wrote:

PalmettoBlue wrote:In an abundance of caution, I’ll just leave this here.


According to the referenced article, Kylo has all his limbs, hands, fingers...and they cite a tweet from Pablo.

@PalmettoBlue

Phew! That's one curse of the Skywalkers that he broke then.

@nite0wl29

So far, yes!

nite0wl29 wrote:

PalmettoBlue wrote:In an abundance of caution, I’ll just leave this here.


According to the referenced article, Kylo has all his limbs, hands, fingers...and they cite a tweet from Pablo.

@PalmettoBlue

Phew! That's one curse of the Skywalkers that he broke then.

@nite0wl29

Well, he's already had his face cut open....
Speaking of which, here's a very good pic from Empire courtesy of eyesofmist:
http://reyloeyesofmist.tumblr.com/page/2
It's pretty deep, isn't it?

Interview by Star Wars.com about Kylo's arc in TLJ

http://reb-ren.tumblr.com/post/168431921885/equalix-each-day-that-passes-we-become-more

Is it new or did have we already seen it before?

panki wrote:This thread is specifically for spoilers relating to our favourite character in TLJ.

@panki

Thank you for creating this thread!

There's a leak that Rey's parents are scavengers on Jakku who sold her to Unkar Plutt.  

Sounds about right.  

With all her hopes/dreams shattered, it makes perfect sense for her to find herself on unsteady ground as to who she should trust.
Why wouldn't she then be more inclined to empathize with Ben Solo, who also feels like he was discarded?

OK, so I had a little time thinking about Kylo/Ben in TLJ.

I have to see it at least a second time to really grasp everything- but overall I'm a bit torn...

I do feel compassion for him, because he was abandoned and betrayed by his family and targeted by a dark evil predator since his childhood.

On the other hand... does this really justify his action at the end of VIII? A lot of people have a bad childhood - it's not an excuse for becoming an murderer. And sadly that's what he did to Han and wanted to do with the few people left of the resistance. It had nothing to do with war - it felt for me like kicking someone that already is on the ground. That's why I'm not sure I would be fine with him being redeemed anymore.
I want a happy ending- badly, because I'm a romantic fool... but does he deserves it??? I'm really not sure anymore

For me they overdid it... if he woke up in the throne room declared himself the new Supreme Leader but left the resistance alone- yes, that would have worked for me. He could have said something like "stop the attack, they're of no consequence or irrelevant" - the movie should have ended than- That fight on Crait was too much.

What do you think?

Night Huntress wrote:OK, so I had a little time thinking about Kylo/Ben in TLJ.

I have to see it at least a second time to really grasp everything- but overall I'm a bit torn...

I do feel compassion for him, because he was abandoned and betrayed by his family and targeted by a dark evil predator since his childhood.

On the other hand... does this really justify his action at the end of VIII? A lot of people have a bad childhood - it's not an excuse for becoming an murderer. And sadly that's what he did to Han and wanted to do with the few people left of the resistance. It had nothing to do with war - it felt for me like kicking someone that already is on the ground. That's why I'm not sure I would be fine with him being redeemed anymore.
I want a happy ending- badly, because I'm a romantic fool... but does he deserves it??? I'm really not sure anymore

For me they overdid it... if he woke up in the throne room declared himself the new Supreme Leader but left the resistance alone- yes, that would have worked for me. He could have said something like "stop the attack, they're of no consequence or irrelevant" - the movie should have ended than- That fight on Crait was too much.

What do you think?

@Night Huntress

He let the Resistance go at the end, though...

After being humiliated by his uncle (who absolutely deserved being the target of Ben's anger) in front of his troops, he dropped to his knees and let the Resistance go, rather than shouting outside where the Falcon was and to pursue them or anything. That doesn't scream cold-blooded murderer to me.

Exactly. Kylo has already begun his redemption, he just doesn't realise it.

Honestly, Kylo Ren/Ben Solo really is the only character tptb take lasting risks with and who suffers any real consequences for his decisions. I thought that in TFA and still think it in TLJ. It's like tptb are using Kylo for most of the drama, yet keep him stuck in the loop.

Even in TLJ when other characters made bad decisions, they didn't really suffer any personal consequences. In TLJ Poe was cocky, extremely impulsive and got a ton of people killed, but there were no real consequences for him. In fact, he's going to take over for Leia when he should have been court-martialed. Finn is still pure as snow like he was in TFA, despite his FO past. The end of TLJ made it look like Rey was unscathed with no conflict. Almost as if it were all a brief dalliance.

Night Huntress wrote:OK, so I had a little time thinking about Kylo/Ben in TLJ.

I have to see it at least a second time to really grasp everything- but overall I'm a bit torn...

I do feel compassion for him, because he was abandoned and betrayed by his family and targeted by a dark evil predator since his childhood.

On the other hand... does this really justify his action at the end of VIII? A lot of people have a bad childhood - it's not an excuse for becoming an murderer. And sadly that's what he did to Han and wanted to do with the few people left of the resistance. It had nothing to do with war - it felt for me like kicking someone that already is on the ground. That's why I'm not sure I would be fine with him being redeemed anymore.
I want a happy ending- badly, because I'm a romantic fool... but does he deserves it??? I'm really not sure anymore

For me they overdid it... if he woke up in the throne room declared himself the new Supreme Leader but left the resistance alone- yes, that would have worked for me. He could have said something like "stop the attack, they're of no consequence or irrelevant" - the movie should have ended than- That fight on Crait was too much.

What do you think?

@Night Huntress

To me, there really isn't any justification or excuse for murder/war crimes and I also don't think excuses and justifications are the point of redemption anyway. If there were a way to excuse and justify his bad actions and if he was good enough to deserve redemption, then I don't know why he would even need to be redeemed in the first place. Though I get your worry that as he keeps making really bad choices over and over, it feels less likely he will begin making good ones. Part of me feels the same way, but I also think there is still room in the story for him to change and redeem himself because he is still tormented and he makes a terrible Supreme Leader so far.

jakkusun wrote:

Night Huntress wrote:OK, so I had a little time thinking about Kylo/Ben in TLJ.

I have to see it at least a second time to really grasp everything- but overall I'm a bit torn...

I do feel compassion for him, because he was abandoned and betrayed by his family and targeted by a dark evil predator since his childhood.

On the other hand... does this really justify his action at the end of VIII? A lot of people have a bad childhood - it's not an excuse for becoming an murderer. And sadly that's what he did to Han and wanted to do with the few people left of the resistance. It had nothing to do with war - it felt for me like kicking someone that already is on the ground. That's why I'm not sure I would be fine with him being redeemed anymore.
I want a happy ending- badly, because I'm a romantic fool... but does he deserves it??? I'm really not sure anymore

For me they overdid it... if he woke up in the throne room declared himself the new Supreme Leader but left the resistance alone- yes, that would have worked for me. He could have said something like "stop the attack, they're of no consequence or irrelevant" - the movie should have ended than- That fight on Crait was too much.

What do you think?

@Night Huntress

To me, there really isn't any justification or excuse for murder/war crimes and I also don't think excuses and justifications are the point of redemption anyway. If there were a way to excuse and justify his bad actions and if he was good enough to deserve redemption, then I don't know why he would even need to be redeemed in the first place. Though I get your worry that as he keeps making really bad choices over and over, it feels less likely he will begin making good ones. Part of me feels the same way, but I also think there is still room in the story for him to change and redeem himself because he is still tormented and he makes a terrible Supreme Leader so far.

@jakkusun

Okay....think of this. I am convinced Kylo sees the Resistance as terrorists. Remember his speech about 'murderers traitors,and thieves' from TFA? This in no way justifies mass slaughter, but to him he was erasing insurgents. And the people who had stolen Rey from him. Also...remember Poe's attempt to blow up the star destroyer at the beginning? It would have cost a lot of lives, including his own people. Add to that Kylo' s very wounded mind and you see it in a different light.

I wanted to make a comment about it before but I had to calm down a bit because I didn't want go on a rant anymore with what happened to him. So, I gathered my thoughts on him and his arc.

This movie if anything made understand Kylo much more, same goes for every other fan. He's no saint [we know and he knows it... his word to Rey: I am a monster are telling] and never tried to be one - his self´hating issues let be the example. He hates himself but in ihs own mind he has to do it. He can act like a jerk, on the verge of really pushing it but as one of the few very honest. Many times to his detriment. This movie made me realize and I think that was the point that Kylo is not only flawed, sympathetic but deeply wounded character that nobody can understand, not even Rey. Only Ben Solo can bring himself back, only Ben Solo knows who he is. This is the big and striking difference from Vader and I think it makes his redemption all the more powerful. It will come from him, not someone else.

It was really hilarious, pathetic to see him throw that tantrum on the Crait, but the only person he thought he knew turned on him in his own mind. Yeah, he was jealous, screwed up tactics but what would you do? He's been abused all his life by Snoke, has to live up to the greatness of Darth Vader, Han Solo, Leia Organa and Luke Skywalker. Quite a list of people to follow as for reputation goes. But we realized that our heroes might not always been so heroic when it mattered in the most important moments in their personal lives. Back to his rage on the Crait. His own family gave up on him, Luke for a second tought about killing Ben, Han was probably someone he wished he understood Ben more and couldn't. Ben as FS child can be only understand by another FS, FS users sees things differently. Kylo lost literally everything in this movie and while he gained a power. This is will never satisfy him evause he craves for for love, family and friends he can't have.

About Rey's role. She had a reason for rejecting him, so did he for his views... not like Rey made an effort to at least check up on him when he killed his abusive father figure. Imo she took it as he wants power abut his face was shaken a bit by what he did. For Rey it was always someone else ... save my friends at the Crait and before that Ben Solo can be turned and help us win the war. Logical right? It was but from a certain point of view, her motivations were equally as selfish, as were his. Then came the worst part for him, when he made his plea to her, she seemed like she will think about it but only it was a tactic to get the lightsaber. I don'tif this was to mirror Benand Luke scene from the temple. Kylo took it as a bertrayl.

This movie showed us Kylo, Ben and what his conflict is. He made the right choices and yet he paid the biggest price for these choices. Nobody will mention how Poe got tons of people killed, how Rey has no conflict and just forgot things and back to her perfect herself, how Leia and Luke failed and how Finn's FO background doesn't matter. Nicely said @Kessel. It's just they are the good guys and Kylo is on the other side. I hope, he makes the right calls in Episode IX and his arc won't get shifted aside but I fear it might happen. We shall see.

To summarize it all, I think the main point of this movies was Kylo's and Ben's point of view and we were supposed to feel what he felt at the Crait. Bertrayed in his own mind, sorrow, sad, miserable, depressed but still somewhat with a glimmer of hope. Even if it seems pretty bleak for him and us, he is the last of the Skywalkers, his story will continue.

One last words and remember Snoke's line to Kylo. You have your father's heart and we know that Han had the biggest heart in the Galaxy, combine that with Rey's Ben is the Galaxy's only hope.

DarthRen wrote:I wanted to make a comment about it before but I had to calm down a bit because I didn't want go on a rant anymore with what happened to him. So, I gathered my thoughts on him and his arc.

This movie if anything made understand Kylo much more, same goes for every other fan. He's no saint [we know and he knows it... his word to Rey: I am a monster are telling] and never tried to be one - his self´hating issues let be the example. He hates himself but in ihs own mind he has to do it. He can act like a jerk, on the verge of really pushing it but as one of the few very honest. Many times to his detriment. This movie made me realize and I think that was the point that Kylo is not only flawed, sympathetic but deeply wounded character that nobody can understand, not even Rey. Only Ben Solo can bring himself back, only Ben Solo knows who he is. This is the big and striking difference from Vader and I think it makes his redemption all the more powerful. It will come from him, not someone else.

It was really hilarious, pathetic to see him throw that tantrum on the Crait, but the only person he thought he knew turned on him in his own mind. Yeah, he was jealous, screwed up tactics but what would you do? He's been abused all his life by Snoke, has to live up to the greatness of Darth Vader, Han Solo, Leia Organa and Luke Skywalker. Quite a list of people to follow as for reputation goes. But we realized that our heroes might not always been so heroic when it mattered in the most important moments in their personal lives. Back to his rage on the Crait. His own family gave up on him, Luke for a second tought about killing Ben, Han was probably someone he wished he understood Ben more and couldn't. Ben as FS child can be only understand by another FS, FS users sees things differently. Kylo lost literally everything in this movie and while he gained a power. This is will never satisfy him evause he craves for for love, family and friends he can't have.

About Rey's role. She had a reason for rejecting him, so did he for his views... not like Rey made an effort to at least check up on him when he killed his abusive father figure. Imo she took it as he wants power abut his face was shaken a bit by what he did. For Rey it was always someone else ... save my friends at the Crait and before that Ben Solo can be turned and help us win the war. Logical right? It was but from a certain point of view, her motivations were equally as selfish, as were his. Then came the worst part for him, when he made his plea to her, she seemed like she will think about it but only it was a tactic to get the lightsaber. I don'tif this was to mirror Benand Luke scene from the temple. Kylo took it as a bertrayl.

This movie showed us Kylo, Ben and what his conflict is. He made the right choices and yet he paid the biggest price for these choices. Nobody will mention how Poe got tons of people killed, how Rey has no conflict and just forgot things and back to her perfect herself, how Leia and Luke failed and how Finn's FO background doesn't matter. Nicely said @Kessel. It's just they are the good guys and Kylo is on the other side. I hope, he makes the right calls in Episode IX and his arc won't get shifted aside but I fear it might happen. We shall see.

To summarize it all, I think the main point of this movies was Kylo's and Ben's point of view and we were supposed to feel what he felt at the Crait. Bertrayed in his own mind, sorrow, sad, miserable, depressed but still somewhat with a glimmer of hope. Even if it seems pretty bleak for him and us, he is the last of the Skywalkers, his story will continue.

One last words and remember Snoke's line to Kylo. You have your father's heart and we know that Han had the biggest heart in the Galaxy, combine that with Rey's Ben is the Galaxy's only hope.

@DarthRen

Beautifully put.

Redemption is a total go in IX, no doubts there.

I personally find Renperor cathartic AF. "I bet you are!" Was exactly what I thought too. Didn't blame him one bit for wanting to blow everyone and everything to hell. Dude finally finds a beautiful, vulnerable, healthy connection with a woman who understands him and gets jilted. Of course he'd react that way. And he does face the consequences of the Renperor meltdown when Rey closes the door on him. He knows he effed up and looks so sad to lose her. I empathize with Ben.

MeadowofAshes wrote:Redemption is a total go in IX, no doubts there.

I personally find Renperor cathartic AF. "I bet you are!" Was exactly what I thought too. Didn't blame him one bit for wanting to blow everyone and everything to hell. Dude finally finds a beautiful, vulnerable, healthy connection with a woman who understands him and gets jilted. Of course he'd react that way. And he does face the consequences of the Renperor meltdown when Rey closes the door on him. He knows he effed up and looks so sad to lose her. I empathize with Ben.

@MeadowofAshes

Yeah- very sad...he wanted to blow her out of the sky only minutes before

I get what you all saying and I partly agree... like I said I'm a bit torn- I see it again next Tuesday maybe I'll see things differently when experiencing all a second time with less shock.

Who was it that said we’d know who to root for by the end of TLJ? Rian? Do you guys think that ending will have people rooting for Kylo/Ben? Of course we are, but I’m not so sure about everyone else. I see a lot of “Rey rejected romance and the dark side #strongfemalecharacter” stuff that doesn’t seem sympathetic to him at all.

Night Huntress wrote:

MeadowofAshes wrote:Redemption is a total go in IX, no doubts there.

I personally find Renperor cathartic AF. "I bet you are!" Was exactly what I thought too. Didn't blame him one bit for wanting to blow everyone and everything to hell. Dude finally finds a beautiful, vulnerable, healthy connection with a woman who understands him and gets jilted. Of course he'd react that way. And he does face the consequences of the Renperor meltdown when Rey closes the door on him. He knows he effed up and looks so sad to lose her. I empathize with Ben.

@MeadowofAshes

Yeah- very sad...he wanted to blow her out of the sky only minutes before

I get what you all saying and I partly agree... like I said I'm a bit torn- I see it again next Tuesday maybe I'll see things differently when experiencing all a second time with less shock.

@Night Huntress



I honestly think he doesn't know she's on the Falcon. He sees the piece of junk that represents his family and is triggered. His "I'll destroy her" line comes afted he senses her hugging and feeling happy with Finn, and look how that turns out. "Please don't make me sleep on the couch" face.

Kylo killed his mentor for Rey. He tried to obliterate the Resistance but spared the survivors for Rey. He is the Beast to Rey's Beauty. And Beauty discovered she couldn't live without her Beast.

MeadowofAshes wrote:

Night Huntress wrote:

MeadowofAshes wrote:Redemption is a total go in IX, no doubts there.

I personally find Renperor cathartic AF. "I bet you are!" Was exactly what I thought too. Didn't blame him one bit for wanting to blow everyone and everything to hell. Dude finally finds a beautiful, vulnerable, healthy connection with a woman who understands him and gets jilted. Of course he'd react that way. And he does face the consequences of the Renperor meltdown when Rey closes the door on him. He knows he effed up and looks so sad to lose her. I empathize with Ben.

@MeadowofAshes

Yeah- very sad...he wanted to blow her out of the sky only minutes before

I get what you all saying and I partly agree... like I said I'm a bit torn- I see it again next Tuesday maybe I'll see things differently when experiencing all a second time with less shock.

@Night Huntress



I honestly think he doesn't know she's on the Falcon. He sees the piece of junk that represents his family and is triggered. His "I'll destroy her" line comes afted he senses her hugging and feeling happy with Finn, and look how that turns out. "Please don't make me sleep on the couch" face.

@MeadowofAshes

I think he didn't know she was there either.

motherofpearl1 wrote:Kylo killed his mentor for Rey. He tried to obliterate  the Resistance but spared the survivors for Rey. He is the Beast to Rey's Beauty. And Beauty discovered she couldn't live without her Beast.

@motherofpearl1

To hell with the children. Everyone except hardcore antis would be pissed off by that message.

MeadowofAshes wrote:
@Night Huntress



I honestly think he doesn't know she's on the Falcon. He sees the piece of junk that represents his family and is triggered. His "I'll destroy her" line comes afted he senses her hugging and feeling happy with Finn, and look how that turns out. "Please don't make me sleep on the couch" face.

@MeadowofAshes

maybe- but you can't just kill everyone just because you're mad/displeased. That's something he will have to learn... and I'm sad that they didn't evolve his character to this point at the end of the second movie.
Sure he let them go at the end- but that "act of mercy" came a bit too late.

I' do like TLJ but I can't help thinking how they could have done things differently at the end.
For example let him chase after Rey... not to kill her, but to sort things out between them.
Of course she would have escaped - because drama and open ending for IX.