Predictions for Episode 9

SoloSideCousin wrote:So this post could probably fit in a lot of threads, but since we didn't see any implications of this decision in TLJ, maybe we will see them in IX?

Okay, so remember when Rian supposedly had Claudia Grey include the Napkin Bombing part in Bloodline? In the end I think we just thought a random Twilek server did it because she was probably with the FO. (I need to reread that part). But what if that was a red herring?

Bloodline made a big deal about how no one handwrote anymore, except on places like Ryloth. So it was easy to look at the Twilek.

But now we know that Ben Solo writes too with his calligraphy. Also, we know that it took a long time for the news of the Temple meltdown to get out to the outside galaxy.  Then add in how young Ben looked and how JJ wanted to make a KoR movie ...and suddenly it becomes possible that Ben had broken away from Luke quite a while before the Vader reveal.

So I am wondering, would the circumstances actually make it possible that Ben was warning his mother in Bloodline?

This whole line of thought was inspired by this interesting Reddit discussion.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsspeculation/comments/7sb0sp/ben_solo_saved_his_mom_in_bloodline_novel_and_its/

SoloSideCousin wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

SoloSideCousin wrote:So this post could probably fit in a lot of threads, but since we didn't see any implications of this decision in TLJ, maybe we will see them in IX?

Okay, so remember when Rian supposedly had Claudia Grey include the Napkin Bombing part in Bloodline? In the end I think we just thought a random Twilek server did it because she was probably with the FO. (I need to reread that part). But what if that was a red herring?

Bloodline made a big deal about how no one handwrote anymore, except on places like Ryloth. So it was easy to look at the Twilek.

But now we know that Ben Solo writes too with his calligraphy. Also, we know that it took a long time for the news of the Temple meltdown to get out to the outside galaxy. Then add in how young Ben looked and how JJ wanted to make a KoR movie ...and suddenly it becomes possible that Ben had broken away from Luke quite a while before the Vader reveal.

So I am wondering, would the circumstances actually make it possible that Ben was warning his mother in Bloodline?

This whole line of thought was inspired by this interesting Reddit discussion.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsspeculation/comments/7sb0sp/ben_solo_saved_his_mom_in_bloodline_novel_and_its/

@SoloSideCousin

Given the build-up that we got for Bloodline and how it was supposed to have multiple ties to things in TLJ, I did find it odd that not really anything beyond the overt "bloodline" symbolism/references made it into TLJ.

It's been a while since I read Bloodline, but I thought it was pretty clear that the twilek sent the napkin warning? (I could be wrong and just inferred things.) I also thought that the whole bombing incident was basically a warning/shot-across-the-bow from the FO, rather than actually intending to kill anyone?

Granted, the whole "napkin incident" does seem like a random thing for Rian to have requested if it doesn't tie in anywhere else in the ST.

@ISeeAnIsland

I was just like you. Until I read this post, I was like, "yeah, the Twilek did it." But how with the calligraphy, something we didn't know until TLJ, I wonder if the Bloodline text offers any wiggle room. I will have to re-read it ... because if this were to turn out to be Ben, that's maybe two incidents where he tried to warn his mother, adding in the mysterious datacard from TFA that Pablo wouldn't talk about.

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

Lily Snape wrote:

Night Huntress wrote:

Lily Snape wrote:
I think she will end up saving him too, but here’s the issue: how could they make it so that it’s completely clear that Kylo isn’t just going to be rescued by Rey and then go right back to being Renperor?  You know the argument going on right now that he just used her to make his assassination of Snoke possible —he couldn’t have killed off all 9 guards if he had done it alone.  I think they have to make it clear that he doesn’t want the power, he just wants the girl.  But I’m not sure how they could do that other than having him willingly give up his Force sensitivity in some sort of Plagueis-inspired effort to save her life—again, reverse Anakin: saving the woman he loves instead of killing her, and turning away from the Dark side instead of toward it in order to do so.

@Lily Snape

I agree- and I don't want them making Ben even more of a victim or male version of a "damsel in distress".
He was beaten and humiliated enough for my taste and I hope in IX he finally shines and shows how truly awesome he can be.
We saw already a taste of it in TLJ when he killed Snoke with a few clever flicks of his fingers- so I hope in IX he does something really bad*** - something that saves not only Rey (he saved her in VIII don't need to repeat that) but the people she cares about. Because I think with that he could truly win her heart.

Not sure about the force powers- I'm not a fan of him loosing them...rather than he choose to not use them- kind of like Luke on Ahch-To  

The biggest challenge with IX in my opinion is to write a redemption arc where Ben Solo survives and do repentance where he still can somehow have a happy ending with Rey and be at peace with himself.

@Night Huntress

Agreed—they need to have him survive AND have such a convincing redemption arc that people won’t leave the theater thinking, “Yep, but he’s going to go right back to being Renperor.”  I think it kind of can’t be Rey rescuing him because the FO and Hux have attacked him—if he just goes with her and the Resistance because his own side has tried to kill him, then his motivations remain questionable.  In that case, he’s Napoleon on Elba—how long until he escapes and goes back to ruling France again?  I remember people theorizing that in TLJ he would join the good guys when Snoke would cast him aside in favor of Rey, and I remember thinking, “But if he does that, his turn won’t be believable—he will just be changing sides because his own crowd cast him aside.” Same thing if the FO and Hux overthrow or threaten him.

I guess starting Kylo out as good-guy emperor would be one option, but problematic, because it sounds like plenty of planets would prefer to rule themselves.  So, I am guessing it will be more like a choice between the FO and Rey somehow, in which he clearly and openly chooses Rey knowing full well that he will lose his leadership role and the power that goes with it.  Maybe they capture her and he stops her execution as Snoke’s supposed assassin and runs off with her?  And then gives the Resistance the info they need to take down the FO from within.  Just a guess.   I think I’ve used this analogy, but remember the movie Love and Basketball?  The lead characters are friends from childhood who are both gifted basketball players, but in the end she’s playing in something like the WNBA while he cheers from the sidelines with their little girl in his arms, and it’s clear that he’s OK with that.  I think we have to see Kylo finding happiness in a different kind of life than the one he has been plotting and planning for—after realizing how unhappy he is with the life he thought he wanted, as Supreme Leader.

@Lily Snape

I'm REALLY not a fan of the idea of Rey getting captured again, but I really think that what you're proposing here is probably the least convoluted way to set Ben up for a believeable redemption (and one that would fit the Reverse Anidala scenario nicely).

I do think that TLJ was set up for Hux to go for a coup, but in trying to think through how that would work--I agree that that situation would lessen Ben's agency in his redemption. Putting him in a situation where Rey is threatened again, and this time having him choose Rey over the power offered by the FO/his position would both be powerful and show that he learned from his mistakes in TLJ.

Riri wrote:Hello everyone . I'm delighted I found a Reylo positive forum!

I have a couple of thoughts in regards to Ep 9. Firstly, will Rey reform the Jedi order? I mean, in a way, she kind of has to in order for "Reylo" to happen i.e the "no attachment" rule which led to the secrecy of Anakin and Padme's relationship. Also Luke at the beginning of TLJ spoke of the failures and arrogance of Jedi from the old Republic, surely she will reform the code to make it less dogmatic and more in tune with emotions such as fear, love, anger and perhaps she'll realise that she will have to do this with Ben.
2) I was thinking about the lightsaber duels and how Ep9 will definitely need one. Wouldn't it be cool if Ben had a cave-like vision where he had to duel Kylo Ren and in the end he realises that he has to accept the Kylo within him but in balance so not to control him?

Night Huntress wrote:I made screenshots of the pages in Bloodline mentioning the napkin incident...how and why that would play any important role in the movies when something like the Vader reveal didn't? I'm confused.  

Screenshots:

Welcome to the Forum!  Smile Glad you found it. You’ve brought up a good point: Star Wars always has to have, to quote or paraphrase Oscar Isaac when he was saying why he would have enjoyed playing Kylo, “the fights, the beautiful fights.” I wonder who the lightsaber fight(s) will be between in IX? Hmmmm... I mean, they did a great job of having Rey and Kylo on the same side in an epic battle with warriors who DIDN’T use lightsabers in the Throne Room battle, and there was Kylo vs. Luke. In TFA, when Kylo was still the bad guy, albeit conflicted, we had Kylo vs. Finn and Kylo vs. Rey. Although both boy-girl lightsaber fights (TFA and TLJ) are the hottest things I’ve seen in a movie in a long time (I’m a nerd), I’m not sure how they could set up these two to have a passionate, knock-down, drag-out battle to the death against each other at this point,given how they clearly feel about each other —unless it’s like that scene in Galaxy Quest in which Alan Rickman and Tim Allen fake a fight to actually take out their captors. And I guess there could be a fight with Rey and Kylo once again against warriors without lightsabers—or maybe something with the Knights of Ren? Even one or two rogue Knights with Force sensitivity and lightsaber training could be a possibility.  

vaderito wrote:I just want to point out something. In TFA, Forceback was edited to look like Kylo saved Rey from Salad Bowl. In TLJ, he saved her from Snoke. So the idea that he would save her turned out true. Everyone who believed in it was right. It just wasn't a Salad Bowl or another KoR but it was his master whom he killed. Which is bigger than turning on just a KoR.

So I think that their visions of the future did not happen in TLJ but will happen in IX. They will stand together like they saw it when they touched hands, they just misinterpreted the moment.

snufkin wrote:

vaderito wrote:I just want to point out something. In TFA, Forceback was edited to look like Kylo saved Rey from Salad Bowl. In TLJ, he saved her from Snoke. So the idea that he would save her turned out true. Everyone who believed in it was right. It just wasn't a Salad Bowl or another KoR but it was his master whom he killed. Which is bigger than turning on just a KoR.

So I think that their visions of the future did not happen in TLJ but will happen in IX. They will stand together like they saw it when they touched hands, they just misinterpreted the moment.

@vaderito

We may never meet Salad Bowl Ren, but for sure that moment in the vision was literal in that he'd come to her defense when it meant to betraying one of his own. And somebody much bigger than a mere KoR, his master. At this point, it's fair to say the vision can be taken to mean that she'll meet him, they'll fight but he'll also come to her defense, and at best it's about the events/moments which led to both of them being pulled away from their families and traumatized by the experience.

AppleCrumble122 wrote:

snufkin wrote:

vaderito wrote:I just want to point out something. In TFA, Forceback was edited to look like Kylo saved Rey from Salad Bowl. In TLJ, he saved her from Snoke. So the idea that he would save her turned out true. Everyone who believed in it was right. It just wasn't a Salad Bowl or another KoR but it was his master whom he killed. Which is bigger than turning on just a KoR.

So I think that their visions of the future did not happen in TLJ but will happen in IX. They will stand together like they saw it when they touched hands, they just misinterpreted the moment.

@vaderito

We may never meet Salad Bowl Ren, but for sure that moment in the vision was literal in that he'd come to her defense when it meant to betraying one of his own. And somebody much bigger than a mere KoR, his master. At this point, it's fair to say the vision can be taken to mean that she'll meet him, they'll fight but he'll also come to her defense, and at best it's about the events/moments which led to both of them being pulled away from their families and traumatized by the experience.

@snufkin

Hmm... assuming Salad Bowl is a KOR, what if one or some of the Knights lose faith in Kylo and scheme with Hux maybe? Or since it's heavily hinted that the KOR are Luke's former students that trained with Kylo, and Rian said he deliberately left them out of TLJ due to emotional and character reasons, maybe some of the Knights are concerned about the effect Rey has on Kylo and come to the conclusion that the best way to "free" him is by killing her?

snufkin wrote:

AppleCrumble122 wrote:

snufkin wrote:

vaderito wrote:I just want to point out something. In TFA, Forceback was edited to look like Kylo saved Rey from Salad Bowl. In TLJ, he saved her from Snoke. So the idea that he would save her turned out true. Everyone who believed in it was right. It just wasn't a Salad Bowl or another KoR but it was his master whom he killed. Which is bigger than turning on just a KoR.

So I think that their visions of the future did not happen in TLJ but will happen in IX. They will stand together like they saw it when they touched hands, they just misinterpreted the moment.

@vaderito

We may never meet Salad Bowl Ren, but for sure that moment in the vision was literal in that he'd come to her defense when it meant to betraying one of his own. And somebody much bigger than a mere KoR, his master. At this point, it's fair to say the vision can be taken to mean that she'll meet him, they'll fight but he'll also come to her defense, and at best it's about the events/moments which led to both of them being pulled away from their families and traumatized by the experience.

@snufkin

Hmm... assuming Salad Bowl is a KOR, what if one or some of the Knights lose faith in Kylo and scheme with Hux maybe? Or since it's heavily hinted that the KOR are Luke's former students that trained with Kylo, and Rian said he deliberately left them out of TLJ due to emotional and character reasons, maybe some of the Knights are concerned about the effect Rey has on Kylo and come to the conclusion that the best way to "free" him is by killing her?

@AppleCrumble122

Rey's definitely going to have a bullseye on her back thanks to all the mayhem she's caused the First Order, including getting BB-8 to the Resistance and Kylo's CYA lie to Hux that she took out Snoke and the PG all on her own. I'm so there for any and all FO/DS workplace drama!

And yeah, will we ever get to actually meet the KoR after the references dropped in the first movie and Kasdan talking up The Seven Samurai? Technically speaking Kylo is now Ronin because he no longer has a master (on the technicality that he killed his master in defense of the woman he'd fallen in love with).

AppleCrumble122 wrote:@snufkin I don't think the FO ever issued the identity of the two "fugitives" in TFA, a) because they had no idea who "the girl" was and b) it's been mentioned (although I can't remember where) that Finn's desertion was kept a secret from the majority of the FO officers/stormtroopers in fear of making more of them desert and/or starting a rebellion. Fugitives could've easily meant criminals or escaped prisoners. Also that deleted scene with Tom Hardy has his stormtrooper congratulating him on a "promotion" due to seeing him in his uniform disguise. I think only higher ups and maybe Finn's personal squad like the stormtrooper he fought on Takodana know about his desertation so taking this into account, it's no wonder the Canto Bight cops didn't get a notice. There's also the possibility that Kylo thought him dead and so his file was closed lol.

lauvamp wrote:It would be wonderful to see this:



Credits https://knights-of-reylo-reborn.tumblr.com/

Teo oswald wrote:

lauvamp wrote:It would be wonderful to see this:



Credits https://knights-of-reylo-reborn.tumblr.com/

@lauvamp

beautiful image however I do not see Kylo ren as a Snoke 2.0

I see him more involved and reactive. He will not be all day on his throne. However the KOR as a double of the Praetorian guards is not a bad idea.

lauvamp wrote:

Teo oswald wrote:

lauvamp wrote:It would be wonderful to see this:



Credits https://knights-of-reylo-reborn.tumblr.com/

@lauvamp

beautiful image however I do not see Kylo ren as a Snoke 2.0

I see him more involved and reactive. He will not be all day on his throne. However the KOR as a double of the Praetorian guards is not a bad idea.

@Teo oswald

I imagine him seated in a throne to receive important people and to make deals or negotiate stuff, probably boring things for a warrior like him

AppleCrumble122 wrote:

snufkin wrote:

vaderito wrote:I just want to point out something. In TFA, Forceback was edited to look like Kylo saved Rey from Salad Bowl. In TLJ, he saved her from Snoke. So the idea that he would save her turned out true. Everyone who believed in it was right. It just wasn't a Salad Bowl or another KoR but it was his master whom he killed. Which is bigger than turning on just a KoR.

So I think that their visions of the future did not happen in TLJ but will happen in IX. They will stand together like they saw it when they touched hands, they just misinterpreted the moment.

@vaderito

We may never meet Salad Bowl Ren, but for sure that moment in the vision was literal in that he'd come to her defense when it meant to betraying one of his own. And somebody much bigger than a mere KoR, his master. At this point, it's fair to say the vision can be taken to mean that she'll meet him, they'll fight but he'll also come to her defense, and at best it's about the events/moments which led to both of them being pulled away from their families and traumatized by the experience.

@snufkin

Hmm... assuming Salad Bowl is a KOR, what if one or some of the Knights lose faith in Kylo and scheme with Hux maybe? Or since it's heavily hinted that the KOR are Luke's former students that trained with Kylo, and Rian said he deliberately left them out of TLJ due to emotional and character reasons, maybe some of the Knights are concerned about the effect Rey has on Kylo and come to the conclusion that the best way to "free" him is by killing her?

SoloSideCousin wrote:

Night Huntress wrote:I made screenshots of the pages in Bloodline mentioning the napkin incident...how and why that would play any important role in the movies when something like the Vader reveal didn't? I'm confused.  

Screenshots:

@Night Huntress

Thank you for posting all this!

Actually the way that this is written, with how neither Leia nor Ransolm really believe this full Twilek story, a couple of things could be at play.

(1) The Twilek is a Richard Jewel figure, someone who is accused because he was standing nearby, or

(2) Just a person hired to drop the note.  The person's face and even their body shape was covered.  So there may have been an intention to make them unidentifiable.  I mean geez, could they even fake being Twilek? ... and if Ben is involved, did he hire this person?, or

(3) The Twilek is an actual "patsy" set up by the FO to pin the crime on and to point the finger at Ryloth.  In fact, the text says that the Twilek just went in and out of the room.  There doesn't seem to be a visual of her putting down the note ... or any visual at all inside the room.  That note could have been placed there in an event entirely separate from whatever the Twilek was doing, or

(4) The Twilek actually did set the bomb ... but Ben somehow left the note at some point to warn his mother, yet did not appear on video.  If you actually think about it, his force powers might be able to pause a videocamera pretty easily for a temporary period of time. Also, since there seems to be no camera in the actual room ... maybe Ben (or whoever) got in another way and didn't even need to disable the outside camera?

Night Huntress wrote:I don't know why- but that image makes me cringe... I don't think that's Kylo's thing- like at all