Discussions: Tweets/Instagram

by kroi Tue 13 Mar 2018, 2:40 pm

whisperingwillow wrote:
kroi wrote:
ZioRen wrote:
kroi wrote:After all this Reylo goodness & Anti attacks, Rian likes this on twitter; https://twitter.com/CassideeMoser/status/973597024112160768

All this Reylo rollercoaster riding is making me dizzy!
@kroi

Ugh, Rian. Couldn't you let us have this for a few days at least?
@ZioRen

I mean maybe it's just because they wanted to leave it ambiguous, but why put all the other Reylo comments & content out there? Or is it that Kylo's feelings were more romantic then Rey's?
@kroi

I think Kylo's feelings are a lot more romantic than Rey's are at this point. Rey begins to sympathize and have some feelings for him but not to the same extent that Kylo has for her.

@whisperingwillow

I mean I def. agree with that... even the novel where she realizes his churning emotions are for her too! And I def. don't think Rey's main purpose was 'romantic' but idk... I think I've just read too much twitter negativity today & 'closed the door!' comments!

by 12 Parsnips Tue 13 Mar 2018, 2:46 pm

It can be both, guys! Rey IS super naïve. She very well might not realize her feelings are romantic yet. We get hints of this in the throne room when the huge hunk of Ben starts walking toward her (with his "lit lightsaber that is not threatening but frightens her even more" from the novelization Razz

) and she makes a break for the mirror. She knows she feels something intense for Ben, she knows she feels strongly drawn to help him, but she may not be sure exactly what the nature of that feeling is.

by **whisperingwillow** Tue 13 Mar 2018, 2:47 pm

kroi wrote:
whisperingwillow wrote:
kroi wrote:
ZioRen wrote:
kroi wrote:After all this Reylo goodness & Anti attacks, Rian likes this on twitter; https://twitter.com/CassideeMoser/status/973597024112160768

All this Reylo rollercoaster riding is making me dizzy!
@kroi

Ugh, Rian. Couldn't you let us have this for a few days at least?
@ZioRen

I mean maybe it's just because they wanted to leave it ambiguous, but why put all the other Reylo comments & content out there? Or is it that Kylo's feelings were more romantic then Rey's?
@kroi

I think Kylo's feelings are a lot more romantic than Rey's are at this point. Rey begins to sympathize and have some feelings for him but not to the same extent that Kylo has for her.
@whisperingwillow

I mean I def. agree with that... even the novel where she realizes his churning emotions are for her too! And I def. don't think Rey's main purpose was 'romantic' but idk... I think I've just read too much twitter negativity today & 'closed the door!' comments!

@kroi

As I said in another thread what weight is there to the story if the emotion of their relationship ended at the end of TLJ and now they just hate each other. Kathy Kennedy said in an interview that compassion in these films will increase with each episode so I'd expect Rey's feelings to continue to evolve as the story goes forward. Kylo 100% views Rey in a romantic light but Rey started TLJ hating him so to expect her to be in love with him I don't think yet makes sense story wise. Those feelings of compassion she feels for him will continue to grow in the next episode I would think.

@12 Parsnips

agreed completely.

by bashfulblueeyes3 Tue 13 Mar 2018, 2:48 pm

I think that Rian's intent was to bring them closer with Romantic undertones. That being said, he is open for anyone to interpret things the way they want. Hence, maybe liking what he thought was a good interpretation someone had. It may not be what he set up or he actually could have accidentally liked the wrong tweet?

by Cowgirlsamurai Tue 13 Mar 2018, 2:49 pm

whisperingwillow wrote:
kroi wrote:
ZioRen wrote:
kroi wrote:After all this Reylo goodness & Anti attacks, Rian likes this on twitter; https://twitter.com/CassideeMoser/status/973597024112160768

All this Reylo rollercoaster riding is making me dizzy!
@kroi

Ugh, Rian. Couldn't you let us have this for a few days at least?
@ZioRen

I mean maybe it's just because they wanted to leave it ambiguous, but why put all the other Reylo comments & content out there? Or is it that Kylo's feelings were more romantic then Rey's?
@kroi

I think Kylo's feelings are a lot more romantic than Rey's are at this point. Rey begins to sympathize and have some feelings for him but not to the same extent that Kylo has for her.

Edit: I also don't think Rey yet fully understands her growing compassion for Kylo or that she thought of it in this romantic way tbh. Kylo may look at it in a very romantic way but Rey begins to sympathize and feel for him in the fact she relates to him. I don't think where this film starts off that it would make a lot of sense for Rey to fall head over heels in love or be thinking about it in that way yet.

@whisperingwillow

True, true. We've talked about Rey being a "denier of feelings." What's obviously an attraction between them to the audience, isn't exactly acknowledged by her.

by nickandnora Tue 13 Mar 2018, 2:54 pm

Kylo is wayyyy ahead of Rey in the "acknowledgement of romantic feelings" department. As I mentioned, I quite enjoy Fry's interpretation that she sees Kylo as an instrument of the Force (lol, OK) because that's so Rey to hide what she feels behind the mask of something else.

It's like in P&P. Darcy loves Lizzie "most ardently," but she doesn't actually start falling for him legit until after the proposal and she starts thinking, and interacting with people who knew him, and visiting his home, and seeing how selfless he is, etc. It's going to be the same story here. We're not even going to get an admission that she's in love with him until the last two minutes of the next movie, I'd wager (though I suspect the actual *feelings* of love will officially blossom, unsaid, before that point, but still during Act III).

by **whisperingwillow** Tue 13 Mar 2018, 2:57 pm

nickandnora wrote:Kylo is wayyyy ahead of Rey in the "acknowledgement of romantic feelings" department. As I mentioned, I quite enjoy Fry's interpretation that she sees Kylo as an instrument of the Corce (lol, OK) because that's so Rey to hide what she feels behind the mask of something else.

It's like in P&P. Darcy loves Lizzie "most ardently," but she doesn't actually start falling for him legit until after the proposal and she starts thinking, and interacting with people who knew him, and visiting his home, and seeing how selfless he is, etc. It's going to be the same story here. We're not even going to get an admission that she's in love with him until the last two minutes of the next movie, I'd wager (though I suspect the actual *feelings* of love will officially blossom, unsaid, before that point, but still during Act III).

@nickandnora

You're going to see her feelings and emotions towards him continue to evolve until the end of Act III and that is where the feelings will eventually be completely unveiled for the audience.

by snufkin Tue 13 Mar 2018, 3:02 pm

Every time the topic of what high profile fans think comes up, I'm reminded of Jay Rosen's theory of the Cult of Savvy. Which essentially is that even if commentators on a particular environment (in Rosen's example, political reporters) position themselves as being impartial observers and analysts, they almost always have their own opinions. Which can drive how they approach and interpret the subject they're discussing, rather than being objective:

Jay Rosen wrote: here’s a trickier problem: even when the press is trying to be serious, to provide, say, “analysis” instead of a good story, it increasingly relies on an impoverished notion of [the subject matter at hand], a cluster of bad ideas that together form [what people accept as] the common sense of the craft

Where I'd say you see the Cult of Savvy playing into how you have a lot of writers, including the ones getting exclusive coverage at Vanity Fair and Entertainment Weekly, is that they're very much reporting as savvy. Breznican pushing the story that Rey was Obi-Wan's granddaughter based on things he supposedly heard was taken seriously. Until it got brutally debunked. That's a perfect example of somebody's savviness, supposedly knowing better or having insider knowledge than their readers do, shaped a story that was purely one fan's wishes/expectations:

Jay Rosen wrote:In the United States, most of the people who report on politics aren’t trying to advance an ideology. But I think they have an ideology, a belief system that holds their world together and tells them what to report about. It’s not left, or right, or center, really. It’s trickier than that. The name I’ve given to the ideology of our political press is savviness...When you watch political journalists on a roundtable program summing up the week and looking ahead, what they are usually performing for us is… their savviness.

So let me explain what I mean by that term. In politics, our journalists believe, it is better to be savvy than it is to be honest or correct on the facts. It’s better to be savvy than it is to be just, good, fair, decent, strictly lawful, civilized, sincere, thoughtful or humane. Savviness is what journalists admire in others. Savvy is what they themselves dearly wish to be. (And to be unsavvy is far worse than being wrong.)

Savviness is that quality of being shrewd, practical, hyper-informed, perceptive, ironic, “with it,” and unsentimental in all things political. And what is the truest mark of savviness? Winning, of course! Or knowing who the winners are.

To the people inside it, savviness is not a cult. It is not a professional church or “belief system.” They would probably reject my terms. But they would say that journalists need to be savvy observers because in politics the unsavvy are hapless, clueless, deluded, clownish, or in some cases extreme. The unsavvy get run over: easily. They get disappointed: needlessly. They get angry–fruitlessly–because they don’t know how things really work.

Prohibited from joining in political struggles, dedicated to observing what is, regardless of whether it ought to be, the savvy believe that these disciplines afford them a special view of the arena, cured of excess sentiment, useless passion, ideological certitude and other defects of vision that players in the system routinely exhibit. Therefore the savvy don’t say: I have a better argument than you. They say: I am closer to reality than you. Especially if you are active in politics yourself.

Now in order for this belief system to operate effectively, it has to continually position the journalist and his observations not as right where others are wrong, or virtuous where others are corrupt, or visionary where others are short-sighted, but as mature, practical, hardheaded, unsentimental, and shrewd where others are didactic, ideological, child-like and dreamy. This is part of what’s so insidious about press savviness: it tries to hog political realism to itself.

The line about "hogging realism" is very much what you see with a lot of higher level fan generated content and discussions because it implies they have more insider knowledge about SW and LF and therefore "know better" (though now some of those fans are screaming for Rian Johnson's head). Which is why you had so many fans buy into the mass-delusion of what the ST was "supposed" to be about and why yesterday's quotes have set off certain corners of the Internet. The Cult of the Savvy is just about ridiculousness when it comes to Star Wars, but if you follow actual press coverage on things like politics, that's where it really becomes dangerous.

by vaderito Tue 13 Mar 2018, 3:04 pm

Please tell me that people are not freaking out cause he liked that tweet! he liked tons of Storm Pilot fan art too and yet the movie was anything but. Liking a tweet =/= movie.

by nickandnora Tue 13 Mar 2018, 3:07 pm

I probably would have liked it too; "a naivete of human nature" is a pretty interesting idea and eloquent turn of phrase (even if she's kind of wrong, lol).

by 12 Parsnips Tue 13 Mar 2018, 3:08 pm

whisperingwillow wrote:
nickandnora wrote:Kylo is wayyyy ahead of Rey in the "acknowledgement of romantic feelings" department. As I mentioned, I quite enjoy Fry's interpretation that she sees Kylo as an instrument of the Corce (lol, OK) because that's so Rey to hide what she feels behind the mask of something else.

It's like in P&P. Darcy loves Lizzie "most ardently," but she doesn't actually start falling for him legit until after the proposal and she starts thinking, and interacting with people who knew him, and visiting his home, and seeing how selfless he is, etc. It's going to be the same story here. We're not even going to get an admission that she's in love with him until the last two minutes of the next movie, I'd wager (though I suspect the actual *feelings* of love will officially blossom, unsaid, before that point, but still during Act III).
@nickandnora

You're going to see her feelings and emotions towards him continue to evolve until the end of Act III and that is where the feelings will eventually be completely unveiled for the audience.

@whisperingwillow

Yes, I think so too--the audience in IX is going to be following Rey's lead in terms of how they feel about Ben. So it would make sense that they have to build slowly until the end "reveal." (Of course the Reylos were clued in long before! lol!

)

by Cowgirlsamurai Tue 13 Mar 2018, 3:10 pm

vaderito wrote:Please tell me that people are not freaking out cause he liked that tweet! he liked tons of Storm Pilot fan art too and yet the movie was anything but. Liking a tweet =/= movie.

@vaderito

Not freaking. Just perplexed. Obsv Rey has the hots for Kylo, even though she tries to bury it in the depths of her soul after he doesn't save her friends.

by **whisperingwillow** Tue 13 Mar 2018, 3:11 pm

Cowgirlsamurai wrote:
vaderito wrote:Please tell me that people are not freaking out cause he liked that tweet! he liked tons of Storm Pilot fan art too and yet the movie was anything but. Liking a tweet =/= movie.
@vaderito

Not freaking. Just perplexed. Obsv Rey has the hots for Kylo, even though she tries to bury it in the depths of her soul after he doesn't save her friends.

@Cowgirlsamurai

We may know that but does Rey? I don't think so. Rey isn't going there and looking at it as something romantic. She can't yet probably even define what she feels towards Kylo.

by Night Huntress Tue 13 Mar 2018, 3:11 pm

he liked that tweet, so? He always emphasizes that everyone is free to interpret the movie differently. I don't see why that's such big deal- it doesn't mean that's how he personally intended that scene ? Nope

And I don't think Rey is that naive and clueless- she is 19 not 9... I think her feelings are much more complicated because she has those romantic feelings towards her supposed enemy- a man that did terrible things...she watched him murdering his father only days ago? So it's more than understandable that she's in denial.

by Kylo Rey Tue 13 Mar 2018, 3:14 pm

vaderito wrote:Please tell me that people are not freaking out cause he liked that tweet! he liked tons of Storm Pilot fan art too and yet the movie was anything but. Liking a tweet =/= movie.

@vaderito

Yep, he liked that tweet about romantic drama/tragedy between Rey and Kylo awhile back. Liking a tweet doesn't equal an endorsement anyway and he's already said he enjoys hearing different interpretations. Besides, we've already discussed before how Rey is in denial/isn't aware of her feelings yet and Kylo is further along. It's actually the last stage of the Heroine's Journey and these female centric stories where she has to come to terms with her feelings and finally acknowledge them.

by Cowgirlsamurai Tue 13 Mar 2018, 3:15 pm

This is Rian sitting back and enjoying the ambiguity he created Laughing

by Kylo Rey Tue 13 Mar 2018, 3:20 pm

Also remember when he said pre-TLJ that he wanted to bring in romance and get it to a certain place but he thought it was too soon or something to that effect? It obviously wasn't FinnRose given the fact that they kissed and were obviously happy with each other by the end of the movie with little drama so he could only have been talking about Rey and Kylo. It's up to JJ to make Rey's feelings clear to the audience as we see it from her POV.

by IoJovi Tue 13 Mar 2018, 3:32 pm

vaderito wrote:Please tell me that people are not freaking out cause he liked that tweet! he liked tons of Storm Pilot fan art too and yet the movie was anything but. Liking a tweet =/= movie.

@vaderito

Right? I’d say Confirmed Hand Sex (CHS) trumps some silly like that could have been done out of politeness any day...

by Riri Tue 13 Mar 2018, 3:42 pm

Guys i wouldnt stress, he liked the tweet because the person made a good argument. He's also liked so many Reylo tweets. What matters is what HE says in interviews regarding their relationship.

by ZioRen Tue 13 Mar 2018, 3:44 pm

I don't think anyone here is stressing. I was mostly being tongue in cheek with my comment, if that wasn't clear!

by Kylo Rey Tue 13 Mar 2018, 3:48 pm

Turns out Andy and Adam filmed the scene where Snoke wipes the tear away from Kylo's eye that was in the novelisation! Soooooo creepy!

https://twitter.com/writerchick3/status/973548253156265984

by ZioRen Tue 13 Mar 2018, 3:49 pm

Kylo Rey wrote:Turns out Andy and Adam filmed the scene where Snoke wipes the tear away from Kylo's eye that was in the novelisation! Soooooo creepy!

https://twitter.com/writerchick3/status/973548253156265984

@Kylo Rey

Forever frustrated that they keep leaving out scenes that hammer home Kylo's sympathy factor.

by nickandnora Tue 13 Mar 2018, 3:53 pm

Maybe it came across as too blatant of a sexual abuse thing. I mean, I get that they're going for a big abuse metaphor, but that's probably one thing they're intending on leaving squarely in the subtext.

Or it just didn't look right in execution.

by Night Huntress Tue 13 Mar 2018, 3:53 pm

Kylo Rey wrote:Turns out Andy and Adam filmed the scene where Snoke wipes the tear away from Kylo's eye that was in the novelisation! Soooooo creepy!

https://twitter.com/writerchick3/status/973548253156265984

@Kylo Rey

That's something I wished they had kept in the movie... Snoke's should be creepy for everyone to see

by rawpowah Tue 13 Mar 2018, 4:15 pm

Kylo Rey wrote:Turns out Andy and Adam filmed the scene where Snoke wipes the tear away from Kylo's eye that was in the novelisation! Soooooo creepy!

https://twitter.com/writerchick3/status/973548253156265984

@Kylo Rey

Yeah I'm legitimately annoyed they cut this. Are they going to talk about Snoke's abuse in IX, AFTER he's dead and Leia isn't around?

ZioRen wrote:
Kylo Rey wrote:Turns out Andy and Adam filmed the scene where Snoke wipes the tear away from Kylo's eye that was in the novelisation! Soooooo creepy!

https://twitter.com/writerchick3/status/973548253156265984
@Kylo Rey

Forever frustrated that they keep leaving out scenes that hammer home Kylo's sympathy factor.

@ZioRen

Frustrated and worried.

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