THE ST, TROS, & TAROT

spacebaby45678 wrote:

Lovely_Rose wrote:Well we can start with Reylo lol. What do the tarots say about how it will progress and end?

@Lovely_Rose

Reylo is a done deal don't you think? How it will end is easier to figure out than how will it progress... In addition, what I am doing here with this thread, analyzing symbols and their associations is not the same as the fortune telling aspect of Tarot as in when one gives another person a "reading" to tell or predict the future. I don't think Tarot covers the metaphysical aspects of Ben & Rey.. specifically what is the nature of they deep connection/force bond and how was it forged? Maybe I just don't know enough yet remember even though I had studied Tarot for a long time Tarot's actual astrological/mythological associations and those same associations with the Saga are very very new to me.

I can only tell you what I know, from the Wheel of Fortune Card, Card 10, the midpoint of the fools journey of tarot is always related to the Middle Chapter movie in each Trilogy. So we can expect Episode 9 to start from where Card 10 left us in numerical order.

Card 11 Justice = Rey... The Scales of Justice are in her hands, and the sword... remember it was Luke who having the scales forgave his father and threw down in sword in ROTJ





Card 12, The Hanged Man   Kylo/Ben will change his point of view, ala Luke in ESB, and make a sacrifice of himself?

The Hanged Man is the only Tarot card visibly based on a mythological figure. He is Odin, the Norse god who hung from the World Tree for nine days to earn the knowledge of the Runes. Of all the cultures who embody the search for knowledge in their myths, only Odin carries out his quest without moving, at least in the physical sense. The true quest is seeking within, not without. This may be confusing at first, but only because the Hanged Man is the card of the paradox. The Hanged Man's mysteries are some of the oddest yet most enlightening the Tarot has to offer, and they cannot be learned by searching for lessons in the physical world - you must turn within.
@ahsokatano

The Hanged Man, however, has hung himself, and see how much wisdom he has found! Despite his obviously uncomfortable position, he is often pictured as smiling, and with a golden halo around his head to show divine inspiration and power. He is totally vulnerable to the world, and in his vulnerability he has found strength. The sacrifice he has made is his own freedom and power in the physical world; in exchange, he is granted real freedom and power on the spiritual plane.




Card 13, The Death Card... One or both of our protagonists will experience a literal or metaphorical death.



This Card is the Most important for Episode 9 and Rey & Ben/Kylo... The Temperance Card, this card represents the Leo & The Phoenix which are also on the Wheel of Fortune Card, you see the crown in the back which represents the Royal Stars. Is this card the key to the "deeper" connection?

The act of Temperance can also refer to the coming together of two distinct beings that must function as one.

this Key is attributed the Intelligence o f Probation, or Trial. This refers to the testing through which every aspirant must pass before he can reach the heights of Initiation. Its object is to determine his temper, or strength. Thus you see that Temperance refers to the act of tempering, or the making of a properly balanced mixture. It has a distinct reference to equilibration, for the Initiate must be perfectly balanced with reference to all of his vehicles. He no longer goes to extremes, but has mastery of the pairs of opposites, because he invariably chooses the middle path between two extreme courses of action. The fire from the torch falls upon an eagle, symbol of water, and the water from the vase falls upon a lion, symbol of fire. Thus we see a representation of the union of opposite forces in opposite directions. The twin mountain peaks are wisdom and understanding, and the crown above them represents the Primal Will.




So what can I tell you? Not much.. I think we already know the BIG things in the story we don't know HOW they work and I don't think  Tarot can tell you that until AFTER you have seen it.

The biggest thing I think is that Rey & Kylo's connection equals a power in the force we have not seen as of yet.

@spacebaby45678

So I guess this "Dyad" confirms my Temperance Card reading from this past May

Palpatine is Hydra, when he finally reveals himself in ROTS, he has the snakes of Hydra on his Red Dress.... But it will be the Lion that kills him in the end not another Hydra or hydra granddaughter






Leo (the Lion) is a zodiacal constellation and is the last chapter of the Star Bible. It is the culmination of the theme of the the Star Bible, Genesis 3:15, when God promised our first parents that the Seed of Woman, Christ, would crush the head of the serpent. The Lion represents Christ as the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, His final triumph over Satan, the Serpent. The Star named Minchar Al Alsad, meaning “Punishing of the Lion”, shows Christ executing the sentence on Satan and the bright Star Regulus, meaning “Treading Underfoot” shows the fate of Satan.

Just below Leo is the constellation Hydra (the Serpent) which represents Satan as he is finally “Tread Underfoot” by Christ. Hydra is pictured as a dead snake which has been cut into pieces. The brightest Star in Hydra, named Alphard, means “The Separated” and coveys this message. Two other constellations associated with Leo show God’s judgment on Satan, Corvus (The Raven) which is shown eating the flesh of the Serpent, and Crater (The Cup) pouring out God’s wrath on the Serpent.

@spacebaby45678
“The true quest is seeking within, not without. This may be confusing at first, but only because the Hanged Man is the card of the paradox. The Hanged Man's mysteries are some of the oddest yet most enlightening the Tarot has to offer, and they cannot be learned by searching for lessons in the physical world - you must turn within”
And
“He is totally vulnerable to the world, and in his vulnerability he has found strength. The sacrifice he has made is his own freedom and power in the physical world; in exchange, he is granted real freedom and power on the spiritual plane. ”
I love what you said here above . This will
Be birth of Ben solo and his path to enlightenment.

I also love the hydra and Leo references above . So the lion in this case would be both Ben and Rey ? He’s the raven presumably and she’s the cup with water .
It is interesting too how whenever rey is around people are thirsting or hungry but I think
It’s a spiritual hunger and thirst rather than anything else .Finn finds water just before he bumps into Rey in TFA , Ben is splashed with water like a baptism of sorts during a force bond with Rey and we are told that when he looks at Rey in the novel his gaze towards her is hungry . Yes am aware it’s sexual too but I think it’s more than that because kylo like Darth nihilus is hungry like a wound in the force that needs his hunger and thirst quenched and satisfied and the only way is through Rey . He’s been emotionally, physically and mentally starved and waiting for Rey all his life to complete him .
Anyway I found something interesting in one of the recent Vader comics - am posting here because of the serpent /dragon analogies associated with Vader and ( as death ) and Skywalkers ( Rey even calls Kylo a snake in TLJ) and also cross symbolism of royal stars which I’ve highlighted . Again in this comic the vision of the dead people wanting their thirst quenched like zombies is interesting. These are visions . A bartender
Who Vader is after comes across a plant that distorts reality and makes him see things . I also thought it interesting that the hunting lodge in the woods becomes like a nightmare version of Aladdin’s cave .

AhsokaTano wrote:@spacebaby45678
“The true quest is seeking within, not without. This may be confusing at first, but only because the Hanged Man is the card of the paradox. The Hanged Man's mysteries are some of the oddest yet most enlightening the Tarot has to offer, and they cannot be learned by searching for lessons in the physical world - you must turn within”
And
“He is totally vulnerable to the world, and in his vulnerability he has found strength. The sacrifice he has made is his own freedom and power in the physical world; in exchange, he is granted real freedom and power on the spiritual plane. ”
I love  what you said here above . This will
Be birth of Ben solo and his path to enlightenment.

I also love the hydra and Leo references above . So the lion in this case would be both Ben and Rey ? He’s the raven presumably  and she’s the cup with water .
It is interesting too how whenever rey is around people are thirsting or hungry but I think
It’s a spiritual hunger and thirst rather than anything else .Finn finds water just before he bumps into Rey in TFA , Ben is splashed with water like a baptism of sorts during a force bond with Rey and we are told that when he looks at Rey in the novel his gaze towards her is hungry . Yes am aware it’s sexual too but I think it’s more than that because kylo like Darth nihilus is hungry like a wound in the force that needs his hunger and thirst quenched and satisfied and the only way is through Rey . He’s been emotionally, physically and mentally starved and waiting for Rey all his life to complete him .
Anyway I found something interesting in one of the recent Vader comics - am posting here because of the serpent /dragon analogies  associated with Vader and  ( as death ) and Skywalkers ( Rey even calls Kylo a snake in TLJ) and also cross symbolism of royal stars which I’ve highlighted . Again in this comic the vision of the dead people wanting their thirst quenched like zombies is interesting. These are visions . A bartender
Who Vader is after comes across a plant that distorts reality and makes him see things . I also thought it interesting that the hunting lodge in the woods becomes like a nightmare version of Aladdin’s cave .

@AhsokaTano

The hangman.... who shall be the hangman in TROS? Rey or Ben.. both? Will their world views be turned upside down in TROS? We shall see.

I love what you have to say about Water, Rey & Thirst.. this is the essence of Aquarius, she/he pours the living water on all, her first act in TFA after unmasking is to Drink water



No only Rey is the Lion.... Remember, the 4 cherubim.... Aquarius/Leo = Kenobi & Scorpio/Bull = Skywalker

I find this panel interesting because it directly shows the Lion & Hydra battling for the soul of a Skywalker



The Raven & The Cup on Hydra... still not sure what to say about that in regards to GFFA

I don’t know if it’s been mentioned here or anywhere else but I just wanted to highlight Star Wars and chakras . The SDCC Mural and now the colours of the films on dvd and Disney Channel highlight these chakra colours and the path to enlightenment.








So as you can see it looks like TROS is dealing with the third eye/black obsidian (diamond ?) spirituality and magic and illusion . Indigo the same as phantom menace which will lead to violet and awakening into cosmic consciousness and possibly beyond if you look at the 13 levels of chakras and spiritual consciousness. All these colours make up light which is ultimately what enlightenment is trying to achieve . How to reach that 13th level of godhead /light and become luminous beings .
Anyway I thought it interesting to post here since it’s pretty clear that Star Wars is following this .
I also expect a lot of magic , illusion and duplicity in TROS since TROS is following indigo as a colour before the veil is pulled back and truths revealed . Remember in the phantom menace ( indigo chakras too ) we had Palpatine playing both the republic and the separatists and Padme disguising herself constantly and swapping with her handmaidens to hide her identity ( including from Anakin ). What are we going to see in TROS ? ???...

https://www.empower-yourself-with-color-psychology.com/color-indigo.html

@spacebaby45678
And everyone

Just wondered if you had anything tarot wise on Armitage Hux ( General Hux ). Reason I ask am rewatching all the Star Wars films to refresh my memory and in ROTJ I’d forgotten that it’s the Emperor who deliberately allows the leak of the shield generator to the rebels ie in essence he’s a mole( like he’s playing everyone like a puppeteer behind the scenes ) . When I heard those JP leaks and how Hux is supposedly leaking info to the resistance it made me think of the Emperor doing the same .
I looked up Armitage and it basically means hermit but also it’s associated with the Chaldean number 3..

Noticed too how Obi Wan Force ghost expects Luke to kill his father and because Luke doesn’t want to he says then the Emperor has already won and you were our last Hope . Made me think of Kylo’s lines when he says “ I know what I have to do but don’t know if I have the strength to do it “ before killing Han . Why is killing father’s so emphasised . It’s odd. Just some random thoughts and questions .

AhsokaTano wrote:@spacebaby45678
And everyone

Just wondered if you had anything tarot wise on Armitage Hux ( General Hux ). Reason I ask am rewatching all the Star Wars films to refresh my memory and in ROTJ I’d forgotten that it’s the Emperor who deliberately allows the leak of the shield generator to the rebels ie in essence he’s a mole( like he’s playing everyone like a puppeteer behind the scenes ) . When I heard those JP leaks and how Hux is supposedly leaking info to the resistance it made me think of the Emperor doing the same .
I looked up Armitage and it basically means hermit but also it’s associated with the Chaldean number 3..

Noticed too how Obi Wan Force ghost expects Luke to kill his father and because Luke doesn’t want to he says then the Emperor has already won and you were our last Hope . Made me think of Kylo’s lines when he says “ I know what I have to do but don’t know if I have the strength to do it “ before killing Han . Why is killing father’s so emphasised . It’s odd. Just some random thoughts and questions .

@AhsokaTano



Before him kneel two followers. The Hierophant’s task is to pass down his spiritual wisdom and initiate the two into the church so they can take up their appointed roles. This imagery speaks to a shared group identity and a rite of passage to enter the next level.






the Ten of Swords is the ultimate “stabbed in the back” card.  Here, the figure lies face down, completely pinned down by those swords, a symbol of a complete betrayal or let down. A major blow that proves to be fatal to the relationship.



Don't know if you are an American but your question rang a bell for me. Deputy Secretary Richard Armitage...but at the time this was huge... coincidence? Did they know that Hux would be a leaker way back in 2014? At the time this was huge, a scandal, a bruhaha..

Although Armitage was widely credited for a successful tenure as Deputy Secretary of State for Secretary Colin Powell, his tenure at State became overshadowed by allegations that he leaked classified information after Armitage acknowledged that he released information that Valerie Plame Wilson worked for the CIA, triggering the Plame affair

1986 to 1989

Two of the founders of Burning Man: John Law (left) and Michael Mikel
Burning Man began as a bonfire ritual on the summer solstice in 1986

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_Man

Midsummer is the period of time centered upon the summer solstice, and more specifically the northern European celebrations that accompany the actual solstice or take place on a day between June 19 and June 25 and the preceding evening. The exact dates vary among different cultures. The celebration predates Christianity, and existed under different names and traditions around the world. [7][8]

The undivided Christian Church designated June 24 as the feast day of the early Christian martyr St John the Baptist, and the observance of St John's Day begins the evening before, known as St John's Eve.


Obi Wan and Rey are the Baptists.. oh.. and in From A Certain Point of View there is another story of The Baptist...





Okorafor takes us into the garbage chute in “The Baptist,” lending her stunning imagination and elegant storytelling to bring a sense of dignity and depth to an unlikely hero — the creature from the trash compactor. ( Who knows she must baptize Luke)



Light and Water

This feast brings to the forefront imagery of light and water. The opening of the Gospel of John describes the Baptist’s role: “He came for testimony, to bear witness to the light, that all might believe through him. He was not the light, but came to bear witness to the light” (John 1:7-. Later John the Baptist explains that he is the friend of the bridegroom, rejoicing at the sound of bridegroom’s voice, “He must increase, but I must decrease” (John 3:30).

As noted before, the Precursor’s birth marks the halfway point before Christmas. In the Northern Hemisphere, this feast marks midsummer, close to the historical Summer Solstice, the longest day of the year. After the solstice, the days grow shorter (the light decreases) until we reach the winter solstice, close to Christmas, where we have the shortest day of the year, and Christ comes upon the world. After Christ’s birth, the light increases. Granted, Midsummer Eve festivities were held long before Christ was born, but the Church wisely baptized this festival, nourished it and now calls it Her own.

Light (as in sun and fire) and water are the two imageries that keep repeating for this feast (and saint). All over Europe bonfires were traditional for St. John’s Eve. “The Church blesses such fires, praying God that the faithful may overcome the darkness of the world and reach the “indefectible light” of God.” (Dir. Pop. Piety, #225) Here we can see the merging of popular piety with the liturgy with the official blessing from the Roman Ritual for the bonfire.

And as St. John THE BAPTIST baptized with water, including Our Lord, water plays a significant role. In reading about different customs throughout the world my favorite has to be Mexico, where they bathe and swim and throw water “baptizing” each other

https://www.catholicculture.org/culture/liturgicalyear/blog/index.cfm?ID=140

Celebrating Femininity in China
In ancient China, the summer solstice was observed by a ceremony to celebrate the Earth, femininity, and the “yin” forces. It complemented the Winter Solstice that celebrated the heavens, masculinity and “yang” forces. According to Chinese tradition, the shortest shadow is found on the day of the Summer Solstice.



On June 21, 2019, many time zones in the Northern Hemisphere welcome the first day of the summer, as the Sun reaches its northernmost position in the sky.
https://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/june-solstice-customs.html

Kylo

Pull the division out, forget the droid, we have what we need



As many  have noted Leia's words to Rey at the end of TLJ, echos Kylo's words when he kidnaps Rey...



And in The Time of Death, Obi Wan's last words as he takes ghost form echoes that he has all the time he needs to train Luke..



Aquarius The Star Card in Tarot...


Represented by the Water-bearer, Aquarius is the quirky sign of the zodiac. Ruled by rebel planet Uranus, which is the ONLY planet that spins on its side
Aquarius is often misunderstood for being aloof or detached, but it’s more likely that they are distracted by their own thinking.


Similar to water-bearing Aquarius, The Star card features a woman that is pouring water into a body of water and into the earth, providing nourishment and restoring hope for the future. She has one foot in the water, symbolizing intuition, and one on land, symbolizing stability. This echoes the same duality in Aquarius, which is the only zodiac sign represented by two astrological elements -- water for her emotional side and air for her intellectual side.

The stars symbolize the card’s over-arching message of guidance, hope and inspiration! The bird symbolizes the Sacred Ibis of thought who roosts in the tree of the mind. This represents the boundless intellect of Aquarius





JOHN THE BAPTIST’S STARS
In our search for John the Baptist in the stars, we have a number of clues in the Gospels, and the Catholic Encyclopedia provides us with several more. In keeping with our knowledge that Jesus personifies the sun (Gospel Zodiac), he is in the house of Aquarius on January 22 when he meets John the Baptist.

The Catholic Encyclopedia on John the Baptist gives us the dates of three holy days that are no longer celebrated: The celebration of the Decollation on August 29 marks the day he was beheaded. The feast of the Conception of the Precursor on September 24 marks when he was conceived. The feast of St. John on June 24 marks when he was born.

The commemoration of his Nativity is one of the oldest feasts, if not the oldest feast, introduced into both the Greek and Latin liturgies to honour a saint. But why is the feast proper, as it were, of St. John on the day of his nativity, whereas with other saints it is the day of their death?

Because it was meant that the birth of him who, unlike the rest, was "filled with the Holy Ghost even from his mother's womb", should be signalized as a day of triumph. The celebration of the Decollation [beheading] of John the Baptist, on 29 August, enjoys almost the same antiquity.

We find also in the oldest martyrologies mention of a feast of the Conception of the Precursor on 24 September. But the most solemn celebration in honour of this saint was always that of his Nativity, preceded until recently by a fast. Many places adopted the custom introduced by St. Sabas of having a double Office on this day, as on the day of the Nativity of the Lord.The resemblance of the feast of St. John with that of Christmas was carried farther, for another feature of the 24th of June was the celebration of three masses: the first, in the dead of night, recalled his mission of Precursor; the second, at daybreak, commemorated the baptism he conferred; and the third, at the hour of Terce, honoured his sanctity.


Summarizing the information above, these are the dates we should be looking for.
January 22: John baptized Jesus.
September 24: John was conceived.
June 24: John is born
August 29: John was beheaded.

BAPTISM—JANUARY 22
John comes out of the wilderness to baptize Jesus every January 22, at noon when the sun enters the constellation of Aquarius.

For this is he who was spoken of by the prophet Isaiah when he said, “The voice of one crying in the wilderness: Prepare the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.”(Matt 3:1-3; Mark 1:2-3)



And the child grew and became strong in spirit, and he was in the wilderness till the day of his (her) manifestation to Israel. (Luke 1:80)

spacebaby45678 wrote:Rey is the Avatar of the Age of Aquarius...I been knew


Decidedly non-denominational, Mucha’s exploration features a female deity protecting humankind and a number of sophisticated occult themes across a series of images of mystical illustrations.

Unlike the advertising art that had dominated Mucha’s output since his “discovery” by Sarah Bernhardt in late 1894, Mucha described this series of images to a New York reporter as “the thing I have put my soul into.” (The Sun newspaper, 5 January, 1900)

https://ultraculture.org/blog/2016/04/12/alphonse-mucha-occult-illustration/

@spacebaby45678

Rey and D-0 pronounced DIO in latin that is God...

[/quote]
@spacebaby45678





* Taditionaly Holi is celebrated after the full moon of the last month of The Indian month, Phalguna. The name of the month itself has deep astronomical significance.

* Phalguna is named after the stars of the constellation Leo, The Lion. The stars Zosma and Denebola represent the tail end of the lion and are called Purva Phalguni and Uttara phalguni respectively. On the full moon day of Phalguna , the moon shines near or between these stars and hence the entire month has been named after these 2 stars as Phalguna.

Leo/ El Rey Leo heralds spring on Earth
Burning Man was originally a celebration of the Summer Soltice also known as St. John the Bapist. Which gives us a celebration of the constellation aquarius
The undivided Christian Church designated June 24 as the feast day of the early Christian martyr St John the Baptist, and the observance of St John's Day begins the evening before, known as St John's Eve.

spacebaby45678 wrote:Palpatine is Hydra, when he finally reveals himself in ROTS, he has the snakes of Hydra on his Red Dress.... But it will be the Lion that kills him in the end not another Hydra or hydra granddaughter






Leo (the Lion) is a zodiacal constellation and is the last chapter of the Star Bible. It is the culmination of the theme of the the Star Bible, Genesis 3:15, when God promised our first parents that the Seed of Woman, Christ, would crush the head of the serpent. The Lion represents Christ as the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, His final triumph over Satan, the Serpent. The Star named Minchar Al Alsad, meaning “Punishing of the Lion”, shows Christ executing the sentence on Satan and the bright Star Regulus, meaning “Treading Underfoot” shows the fate of Satan.

Just below Leo is the constellation Hydra (the Serpent) which represents Satan as he is finally “Tread Underfoot” by Christ. Hydra is pictured as a dead snake which has been cut into pieces. The brightest Star in Hydra, named Alphard, means “The Separated” and coveys this message. Two other constellations associated with Leo show God’s judgment on Satan, Corvus (The Raven) which is shown eating the flesh of the Serpent, and Crater (The Cup) pouring out God’s wrath on the Serpent.

@spacebaby45678

Look what @northgalis found...

Palpy is Hydra

George Lucas

"Palpatine represents the devil, he represents the pure evil, the Dark Lord of the Sith who is purely out to get more power and greed"

Star Wars Episode III: Becoming Sidious Webisode

Speaking of snakes and serpents I found something which I think is quite exciting :

That is official merchandise for TROS on some of the merchandise . Why am I excited ? Because not only does it tie in with tarot but the symbolism is so much more. It ties in with medicine ( it’s an ancient symbol for medicine ). Healing is happening big time in TROS. Plus it’s linked to chakras and kundalini yoga and the whole philosophy around it and that has me super excited for kylo and Rey and their destiny . We always said here that kylo and Rey “dance “round each other . It also links in with chi /sex energy which leads to spiritual energy and enlightenment. The two go together and are just as important as the other. The path to enlightenment is to go through all the chakras and stimulate that energy . Kylo and Rey are that energy - the life giving force together . Urgh there’s more - together they are the double helix that entwine, are coiled around one another and dance round one another to bring life ( see kundalini references below ) . This explains lando’s reference at the end of the solo movie about “entertwined celestial bodies “ and knowing all about it ( Uncle Lando like a fairy godmother is gonna help get Rey and kylo together I believe )..If this is the story of the universe and the life giving force they are its beating heart , it’s energy that gives life . Together . Epic . It also ties in with Adam and Eve and Adam’s rib being really a symbol for DNA ( since it looks like a rib ):See below for links :









But there’s more and this is where I bring in my love of other franchises as foreshadowing- so that serpent with the rod/light saber is a symbol of medicine, healing and doctors and it got me thinking about a very famous doctor - Doctor who ( as Matt Smith is rumoured supposedly in TROS ). His parent’s names we are told are Ulysses And Penelope which is interesting if you look at the myth . Even if JP rumours are true ( which I very much doubt ) Ben is going to find his way back home to rey :



@spacebaby45678
The old hydra is dead - Palpatine but the new serpent ( Rey and kylo )will fulfill its original purpose and become the symbol it was supposed to be - one of fertility , life giving , healing associated with it

@AhsokaTano

Well said.. and posted...

Kundalini and the entwined serpents are right in the Tarot.. Two of Cups...







By its image, the Two of Cups almost always suggests a relationship between two people. Indeed, this is the primary meaning of the card and the one that appears most often in readings. But the love described by this card is not always love for another person. Before we can truly love another we must learn to love ourselves, to love and accept all of the different (and often conflicting) facets of the gemstone that makes up our personality. Like the Temperance card, this is a card of harmonious union, not just of two people, but of two parts of the same person.

That said, it remains obvious that a lot of the time the Two of Cups speaks of external relationships. This is often seen as the card of the soulmate, that person with whom we share a special connection and whom we can love unconditionally. The synergy of a person with his or her soulmate is like the meeting of two stars which, though bright when separate, shine even more brightly when together. From a distance they may even appear to be a single entitiy. Such harmonious combinations, whether they are between two people, groups or ideas, are a staple of the Two of Cups.

It must be said, however, that this card does have its drawbacks. The energy of the Two of Cups is slightly more diluted than the Lovers card, and not simply because of the Major/Minor Arcana power drop. Whereas the Lovers is the reunion of two complete beings, the Two of Cups is a more immature union that, stable as it may seem, does have the potential to fall apart. This is an ideal union, but as you know, there are few ideal cases in our real world! It is ambiguous whether the relationship shown by the Two of Cups can stand the test of time. Only the two people involved can decide that.

One factor in deciding the stability of a relationship is the stability of the people involved. As mentioned earlier, a high self-love will lead to a greater and more comprehensive love of others. So when this card does not appear to signal a relationship, see it as a sign that you have some work to do within yourself. If you can see the light within yourself then you cannot help showing it to others. By releasing doubt and uncertainty we become able to love others without hesitation and without regret. When you stop telling yourself what you could be, you can start enjoying what you already are. And you can let others enjoy that too.

http://www.ata-tarot.com/resource/cards/c02.html

@spacebaby45678

“Like the Temperance card, this is a card of harmonious union, not just of two people, but of two parts of the same person.”

Yes two halves of our protagonist but it also made me think of this from the Dark crystal :


“a lot of the time the Two of Cups speaks of external relationships. This is often seen as the card of the soulmate, that person with whom we share a special connection and whom we can love unconditionally. The synergy of a person with his or her soulmate is like the meeting of two stars which, though bright when separate, shine even more brightly when together.”

Wow ! Beautifully said And that ties in with binary stars like Sirius that revolve around each other , which orbit together (some ancient beliefs and cultures believe Sirius was the well pool of creation and life) . @Gemini mentioned about the twin suns on the cover of vanity fair ( in the vanity fair thread ) and I then talked about Sirius there and why Ben and Rey are like those binary stars .( Not sure how to link that thread here but it’s in there in the vanity fair thread ).

“the Two of Cups is a more immature union that, stable as it may seem, does have the potential to fall apart. This is an ideal union, but as you know, there are few ideal cases in our real world! It is ambiguous whether the relationship shown by the Two of Cups can stand the test of time. Only the two people involved can decide that.”


That’s really interesting because of some of the leaks about kylo and Rey being together but through the bond possibly or maybe they do work it out but Ben is exiled and has a long road ahead of him back to Rey . If it’s an ideal Union then surely eventually they will find their way back to each other even if they are parted ? Let’s hope so .

And yes to this also :

“If you can see the light within yourself then you cannot help showing it to others. By releasing doubt and uncertainty we become able to love others without hesitation and without regret.”

It’s going to be painful for Ben but hopefully he will get there in the end and be transformed .


Just wanted to ask about Finn -he’s survived death twice ( and it’s interesting that “death/hades “ has been via kylo - will it be him a third time or will it be Palpatine??)once in TFA at the fight at the end ( slashed from the root of the spine to the nape of his neck - want to say something more about this in a minute ) and secondly as he headed towards the canon in TLJ .Do you think there will be a third time and if so will he cheat death a third time ? Am fascinated to know more about Finn in this movie because the focus hasn’t been in the leaks and it makes me wonder what they could be hiding with Finn . He is the stormtrooper who awakened , like Rey the “underdog”. Just wonder if he too will rise up if Skywalker becomes a term in the end for those in the underworld? ie cloud rider /one who walks in the heavens , amongst the sea of stars .If Sirius A and B are Rey and Kylo then is it possible that Finn is Canis Major the constellation itself and the reason it’s so huge is because he rises up to become a leader ( like Anakin who came from humble lowly origins , Finn did too as far as we know but this could change of course ) .Maybe heading the new republic ( if Poe doesn’t get there first ) with a free ( ex stormtrooper) army who has been liberated or leading those left behind from the war and helping to rebuild .Finn is marked in TFA in blood on his helmet at the beginning and those same marks are the ones Rafiki marked on the tree on Simba in the lion king ( sorry it won’t let me post here the gif of Rafiki slashing Simba’s image on the tree):




What I wanted to say regarding Finn being slashed from root to top of spine by Kylo is that maybe the reason he slashed from root to top of spine in Finn is because he metaphorically was preparing him for enlightenment too. Yes it’s a vicious act (but he does turn him round so he doesn’t get his vital organs) but in kundalini yoga and in chakras the path to
Enlightenment is stimulating the energy from the root of the spine to the crown , releasing the serpent energy . So whereas Rey baptised kylo with water and is the water bearer this is like a dark version of being baptised by the Holy Spirit ( spirit of God ) via a laser /fire sword - baptism through fire .
There’s definitely a connection between Rey, Finn and kylo. All three . kylo spared Finn’s life . Just wonder what he knows about Finn and what he’s seen.

Anyway just some thoughts

AhsokaTano wrote:@spacebaby45678

“Like the Temperance card, this is a card of harmonious union, not just of two people, but of two parts of the same person.”

Yes two halves of our protagonist but it also made me think of this from the Dark crystal :


“a lot of the time the Two of Cups speaks of external relationships. This is often seen as the card of the soulmate, that person with whom we share a special connection and whom we can love unconditionally. The synergy of a person with his or her soulmate is like the meeting of two stars which, though bright when separate, shine even more brightly when together.”

Wow ! Beautifully said   And that ties in with binary stars like Sirius that revolve around each other , which orbit together (some ancient beliefs  and cultures believe Sirius  was the well pool of creation and life) . @Gemini mentioned about the twin suns on the cover of vanity fair ( in the vanity fair thread ) and I then talked about Sirius there and why Ben and Rey are like those binary stars .( Not sure how to link that thread  here but it’s in there in the vanity fair thread ).

“the Two of Cups is a more immature union that, stable as it may seem, does have the potential to fall apart. This is an ideal union, but as you know, there are few ideal cases in our real world! It is ambiguous whether the relationship shown by the Two of Cups can stand the test of time. Only the two people involved can decide that.”


That’s really interesting because of some of the leaks about kylo and Rey being together but through the bond possibly or maybe they do work it out but Ben is exiled and has a long road ahead of him back to Rey . If it’s an ideal Union then surely eventually they will find their way back to each other even if they are parted ? Let’s hope so .

And yes to this also :

“If you can see the light within yourself then you cannot help showing it to others. By releasing doubt and uncertainty we become able to love others without hesitation and without regret.”

It’s going to be painful for Ben but hopefully he will get there in the end and be transformed .


Just wanted to ask about Finn -he’s survived death twice ( and it’s interesting that “death/hades “  has been via kylo - will it be him a third time or will it be Palpatine??)once in TFA at the fight at the end  ( slashed from the root of the spine to the nape of his neck - want to say something more about this in a minute ) and secondly as he headed towards the canon in TLJ .Do you think there will be a third time and if so will he cheat death a third time ? Am fascinated to know more about Finn in this movie because the focus hasn’t been in the leaks and it makes me wonder what they could be hiding with Finn . He is the stormtrooper who awakened ,  like Rey the “underdog”. Just wonder if he too will rise up if Skywalker becomes a term in the end for those in the underworld? ie cloud rider /one who walks in the heavens , amongst the sea of stars .If Sirius A and B are Rey and  Kylo then is it possible that Finn is Canis Major the constellation itself and the reason it’s so huge is because he rises up to become a leader ( like Anakin who came from humble lowly origins , Finn did too as far as we know but this could change of course  ) .Maybe heading the new republic ( if Poe doesn’t get there first ) with a free ( ex stormtrooper) army who has been liberated or leading those left behind from the war and helping to rebuild .Finn is marked in TFA in blood on his helmet at the beginning and those same marks are the ones Rafiki  marked on the tree on Simba in the lion king ( sorry it won’t let me post here the gif of Rafiki slashing Simba’s image on the tree):




What I wanted to say regarding Finn being slashed from root to top of spine by  Kylo is that maybe the reason he slashed from root to top of  spine in Finn is because he metaphorically was preparing him for enlightenment too. Yes it’s a vicious act (but  he does turn him round so he doesn’t get his vital organs)  but in kundalini yoga and in chakras the path to
Enlightenment is stimulating the energy from the root of the spine to the crown , releasing the serpent energy . So whereas Rey baptised kylo with water and is the water bearer this is like a dark version of being baptised by the Holy Spirit ( spirit of God ) via a laser /fire sword - baptism through fire .
There’s definitely a connection between Rey, Finn and kylo. All three . kylo spared Finn’s life . Just wonder what he knows about Finn and what he’s seen.

Anyway just some thoughts

@AhsokaTano


Thanks but the Tarot definitions I am posting are not my personal interpretations but taken from ATA tarot or Bota Tarot


Finn
Fin End

On Finn's helmet in blood in TFA is the Hebrew Letter Shin, depending on the esoteric interpretation Shin is either The Fool or Judgement





TWENTIETH CARD OF THE TAROT.

The Judgment.

An angel with fiery wings, surrounded by a radiant halo, sounds the trumpet of the last judgment. The instrument is decorated with a cross.

A tomb opens in the earth, and a man, woman, and child issue from it; their hands are joined in sign of adoration.

How can the reawakening of nature under the influence of the Word be better expressed? We must admire the way in which the symbol answers to the corresponding Hebrew hieroglyphic.

1. Return to the divine World. The Spirit finally regains possession of itself--


The Tarot of the Bohemians
By Papus
[Gérard Encausse, (b. 1865 d. 1916)]
Translated by A. P Morton
[1892]
https://www.sacred-texts.com/tarot/tob/index.htm

King of Wands

SW_Heroine_Journey wrote:Receive the e-newsletter for the Lucas Museum, and this upcoming educational program might be of analysis interest:
Lucas Nights: The Art of the Card - Tarot and Lotería
https://lucasmuseum.org/education/artofthecard
The Lucas Museum focuses on narrative art, which is art that tells a story (in filmmaking, it's primarily concept art, along with the foundation of the movie).
Anyway, here is the description, and I am intrigued about analysis and insight about this (indicates a personal interest of George Lucas, in my opinion)

"Join the Lucas Museum for an engaging evening to explore the art of tarot and Lotería—historic cards featuring beautiful, mass-produced artworks that communicate visual narratives about the human experience. Figurative illustrations by Art Nouveau artist Alphonse Mucha, who is represented by more than 60 works in the Lucas Museum collections, are regularly featured on tarot decks."

Artwork featured in the program description/invite:

spacebaby45678 wrote:

spacebaby45678 wrote:Mucha used Tarot... Just look at this one... The Hebrew Letters and Name for God on them just like my avatar.. Yod He Vav He
8 sided star... Sirius/Star Card .          pomegranates this is from the High Priestess Card in Tarot... I don't speak french ( it is latin) I will have to go translate

@spacebaby45678

The Ouroboros in on this image by Alphonse Mucha, very subtle but there


In mythology, the Oroborus is a symbol representing the Milky Way galaxy.The Ouroboros is a Greek word meaning "tail devourer. Myth refers to a serpent of light residing in the heavens. The Milky Way is this serpent, and viewed at galactic central point near Sagittarius, this serpent eats its own tail. Many ancients used the galaxy to calculate cosmic and earth cycles.
It is found in Gnosticism and alchemy representing cyclical natural life and the fusion of opposites. It also symbolizes the transcendence of duality and was related to the solar God Abraxas, and signified eternity and the soul of the world.
In alchemy, it represents the spirit of Mercury (the substance that permeates all matter), and symbolizes continuous renewal (a snake is often a symbol of resurrection, as it appears to be continually reborn as it sheds its skin.), the cycle of life and death, and harmony of opposites. As a symbol of the eternal unity of all things, the cycle of birth and death from which the alchemist sought release and liberation. It unites opposites: the conscious and unconscious mind. Alchemically, the ouroboros is also used as a purifying glyph.


Alphonse Mucha Artist and Freemason



What makes him important here is that he is considered to be the father of Czechoslovakian Freemasonry. Mucha joined a lodge in Paris in 1898, and after his return to Prague, he helped establish the first Czech-speaking Lodge, the Komensky Lodge. In 1923, Mucha became Grand Master of the new Grand Lodge of Czechoslovakia, and in 1930 was made the second Sovereign Grand Commander of the Ancient Accepted Scottish Rite in Czechoslovakia. He famously designed an apron and jewels for the Grand Lodge, marked with his unique style. (After Masonry was banned during WWII by the Nazis, it reemerged and the fraternity there today is led by the Grand Lodge of the Czech Republic.)

Combined with his longstanding interest in spiritualism, Masonic symbolism appears in what many have felt was one of his most important works, Le Pater, published the same year he joined the lodge in Paris.

Le Pater is an illustrated edition of The Lord’s Prayer created by Mucha. Published in Paris on 20th December 1899 at the passing of the old century, it was meant to be Mucha’s message to future generations about the progress of mankind. Through the archetypal Christian prayer, he wished to present the way for man to reach the Divine Ideal, the highest state in the spiritual world.

@spacebaby45678

the rose is love, the lily purity...so together they represent pure love, or unconditional Love (beyond simply the physical relationship love)


Lillies & Roses in Tarot...

Every Card with Lillies



The lily has symbol meanings of purity, innocence and fertility. Also, lily symbolism deals with vulnerability, and the freedom to be ourselves, as well as allowing others to be as they are too. The lily is also a symbolic flower of health and provision. In a reading, the lily can signal growth, development, and a quality of innocence in our lives. Depending on the surrounding cards, the lily may also indicate new relationships and births.

@spacebaby45678
Wow I love this - the lily references with Rey and also connection to Satine in the Rey Kenobi thread ( am keeping my fingers crossed for Rey Kenobi ) and their meaning .

I’ve got something else - it could be nothing but I noticed that on 4th October in my Star Wars calendar it featured Ben/kylo unmasked . This is also world animal day ( creature in a mask ) but also st Francis of Assisi day ( who is Patron of animals , activism and nature - maybe it’s where whole animal day comes from ). Anyway I thought this super interesting because of possible parallels between st Francis and Ben maybe ? Foreshadowing?

St Francis’s real name was John ( so he took on a new name when he founded a new order ). Like Ben he was born into a wealthy family and rebelled against them and got into the wrong crowd.He was a soldier too and imprisoned by the enemy side and it was there he got sick and had a calling to become a “herald for the great king” to conquer through love not war . He gave up everything, his whole former life to follow that calling and founded the Franciscan monks who were different to the monks at the time in that instead of being cloistered up all the time , they lived amongst the people helping in that way ( if you read Guardians if the whills book with Chirrut and Maze I kind of imagine them a bit like this because they try to work amongst the people helping the orphanage in the book ). Francis also went blind ( a common theme in Star Wars with chirrut , Han and kanan ), founded a women’s order as well as a man’s order , was close to st Clare and was a great lover of birds ( a common theme in the count Dooku book wink wink lol) and also tamed a wolf ( Back to the Sirius link again ).

He also was a scribe and a poet and wrote the canticle of brother sun and sister moon ( where he awaits sister death and attributes man to fire and the sun and women to mother earth and bearing water - - - all elements discussed here as being important symbolism in Star Wars too). And the St Francis prayer “ Lord make me an instrument of your peace “
Is probably the most famous in the world having been turned into a song too ( even though it was written many centuries later so obviously didn’t write it but it sums up his calling and beliefs and is inspired by his life ).

In one of his visions God asked Francis why he would choose to follow the servant (apprentice) when he could follow the master( made me think of Master and apprentice by Claudia Gray and whole master and Padawan relationship).

And what is the master and how do you become the master and reach that enlightenment ?

Well the new book “Star Wars :The force collector “ by Kevin Shinick tells us this ( I have started reading this as I received a copy in the last few days ) that life itself is your master ( but to protect yourself as a force user from the pain you create shields/barriers ie gloves , mask etc - see excerpt below ).

Anyway just thought I Would share the above and below

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.biography.com/.amp/religious-figure/saint-francis-of-assisi

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/01/14/rich-man-poor-man/amp

https://ignatiansolidarity.net/blog/2015/06/04/canticle-of-brother-sun-and-sister-moon-of-st-francis-of-assisi/

@AhsokaTano

Great connection on the calendar and Ben Solo... Funny enough I worked for years right next to the St. Francis Assisi Parish in Manhattan... they do God's work everyday feeding the homeless a warm breakfast 365 days of the year..

Also, they Catholic church blesses the animals on Oct 4





Now, as far as Life is your master... do you want heart surgery from someone who uses that as a philosophy? Nah.... I am not buying what LF is selling. However, there always must be a first one ( master) in humanities spiritual evolution... that is where you get into reincarnated masters (Bodhisattva) or messiah's incarnated directly from GOD or virgin births..

Whole different subject....

@spacebaby45678
I too hope they don’t go down the bodhisattva /messiah route because it would mean (self sacrificing ) compassionate love for others without ever attaining full happiness for themselves .
Have only just begun The force collector by Kevin Shinick( so what I posted above was just the awakening of Karr’s powers ) and I know Karr the main force sensitive protagonist has a female companion in this called Maize .If I find anything else I will post as I think this book isn’t out till 16th November in USA . For some reason in Uk we can get the book now as amazon are sending out copies .


I expect Ben and Rey’s to be spiritual as well as romantic/sexual . They are bound together by the force so it was never going to be just sex ( not saying sex can’t be spiritual with the right person and especially if that person is your soulmate because of course it’s part of attaining spirituality too but it’s not exclusively only this ). . They are soulmates ( I believe any way ) and deeply connected to each other .
What’s interesting about the Kevin Shinick book is it was originally very close to part of the plot for TROS .

AhsokaTano wrote:@spacebaby45678
I too hope they don’t go down the bodhisattva /messiah route because it would mean (self sacrificing ) compassionate love for others without ever attaining full happiness for themselves .
Have only just begun The force collector by Kevin Shinick( so what I posted above was just the awakening of Karr’s powers ) and I know Karr the main force sensitive protagonist has a female companion in this called Maize .If I find anything else I will post as I think this book isn’t out till 16th November in USA . For some reason in Uk we can get the book now as amazon are sending out copies .


I expect Ben and Rey’s to be spiritual as well as romantic/sexual . They are bound together by the force so it was never going to be just sex ( not saying sex can’t be spiritual with the right person and especially if that person is your soulmate because of course it’s part of attaining spirituality too but it’s not exclusively only this ). . They are soulmates ( I believe any way ) and deeply connected to each other .
What’s interesting about the Kevin Shinick book is it was originally very close to part of the plot for TROS .

@AhsokaTano

That is really interesting the the Author had to rewrite it. ( I WANNA KNOW) I feel like Rey believes that she has a destiny larger than who she is to Kylo "nobody" and it is not what Kylo believes she has in store for herself. Kenobi or not...

Interesting that the three planets listed ... are Utapau... where Obi Wan ceased his life as a jedi...
Jakku.. where Rey matures to future Jedi
Takodanna where Rey is introduced to her force powers with the same pshychometry powers that Karr has but also to her part in a larger story.

spacebaby45678 wrote:Ok, did my best, and I could not find a Metatron reference in tarot (yet)  I will keep researching... I can't even find a constellation for Metatron yet, the only thing I can think of because he/she is a giant is maybe Orion?  As he is a giant constellation.

The four Arch Angels/Royal Stars are already represented in SW by Obikin & Reylo, represented in Tarot by the Cheriubum on the Wheel of Fortune 10 & World Cards 21.

The Four Royal Stars also called Archangel Stars are; The two blue stars Obi & Rey , Fomalhaut (Gabriel) Aquarius , Regulus (Raphael) LEO    The two red stars  Ben/Anakin Antares Scorpio (Uriel),Aldebaran (Michael) Taurus  and . They are the brightest stars in their constellations and are considered the four guardians of the heavens


Coincidence?


This is a beautiful shot of the four royal stars and constellations and the wars in the stars... The 4 Royal Stars being crossed... Notice Lepus (Rabbit) under Orion, if you follow the rabbit/lepus you end up in an empty part of space.. or the underworld.



but in Kabbalah mysticism (as you posted), Metatron is associated with the MerKaBah..

light vehicle or light body Holocron or world between worlds?    





So maybe the four royal stars/archangels coming together FORM a Metatron? or Vehicle/Light Body/MerKaBah,   We shall see....

@spacebaby45678
@AhsokaTano

On pages 3 of this thread... You said this
So by chance I’ve stumbled across a Metatron link to Star Wars .I’ve just mentioned it the spoilers thread because it was on a discussion site about the knights of the old republic game and Lord Vitiate ( the Eternal Emperor ) whose spirit moves from body to body and is supposedly buried on Yavin ( where there is a sith temple ). He was known as The voice . Metatron was known as the voice /the logos /the scribe /the word/the son of man - the man who became God . He is linked to Jesus, Enoch and Elijah . Moreover in Kabbalistic mysticism he works in conjunction with the divine goddess- yes he has a twin flame and she represents the light - in this mystical tradition there are two thrones at the throne of God - the divine goddess and then Metatron like her consort representing the masculine




My answer above was Merkabah...

Why not both? With som ChiRo thrown in...The Alpha and Omega