Rey's Lineage Discussion II - 1

vaderito wrote:Hmmmm...



From Bloodlines. seems to re-state that the Force is hereditary rather than "anyone can be strong with the Force". So Rey Random unlikely.

@vaderito
But is this actually the truth or is it just something that people currently believe? There seems to be a disconnect. I think there's a good chance we're going to learn a lot about the Force and the Jedi on Ahch-To. Why else would they bring us there?

And again, random doesn't = nobody/parents never mentioned again. It just means her origins will be relevant to this trilogy's timeline rather than an older one.

Well, what Reywalkers always forget, and I mean always, is that Luke's students obviously weren't Skywalkers. So shocker of shockers, there are non-Skywalker FS! Who knew? @FrolickingFizzgig

vaderito wrote:Well, what Reywalkers always forget, and I mean always, is that Luke's students obviously weren't Skywalkers. So shocker of shockers, there are non-Skywalker FS! Who knew? @FrolickingFizzgig

@vaderito
I'm actually glad they aren't sweeping the whole "the Force runs stronger in certain families" thing under the rug. They've also explored the Force being random in Rebels (and the Prequel Trilogy). I'm assuming Jedi didn't often have children, yet there was an abundance of young Force Sensitives to train at the Corusant temple. Ezra's parents in Rebels also weren't Force Sensitive, and he's quite powerful. You also meet other Force Sensitive children whose parents weren't Force Sensitive. So the whole idea of the Force being inclusive is being kept too.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
I'm actually glad they aren't sweeping the whole "the Force runs stronger in certain families" thing under the rug. They've actually explored the Force being random in Rebels (and the Prequel Trilogy) as well. I'm assuming Jedi didn't often have children, yet there was an abundance of young Force Sensitives to train at the Corusant temple. Ezra's parents in Rebels also weren't Force Sensitive, and he's quite powerful. You also meet other Force Sensitive children whose parents weren't Force Sensitive. So the whole idea of the Force being inclusive is being kept too.

@FrolickingFizzgig

So Space Harry Potter, with Rey possibly being Hermione/Lily (Muggle-born FS). Fine by me cause major HP fan. Could make a beautiful story.

vaderito wrote:Hmmmm...



From Bloodlines. seems to re-state that the Force is hereditary rather than "anyone can be strong with the Force". So Rey Random unlikely. "Certian families" opens the door to certain families beyond Skywalkers. cause obviously Luke found FS students who weren't Skywalkers.

@vaderito

I hope they start bringing in descendants of PT jedi from EU into canon...there is so much potential for it, particularly power dynamics.....

1. Mace Windu's clan (ghosh windu) had FS members in the EU....they struggle between the light and dark side just like Mace Windu did.
2. Ki Adi Mundi had a daughter who struggled with her father being a jedi...maybe she had descendants.
3. Quinlan Vos had a son (one in every 100 Kiffars had psychometry powers so it could be an unrelated clan member)
4. Togrutans like Shaak Ti and Ahsoka could sense things without even using the Force.
5. Count Dooku (former jedi, then sith apprentice) had a siblings so he could could have FS descendants.

Then there could be descendants of either Ezra or Kanan, Palpatine, the inquisitors etc....or even Obi-wan did have a lost child.......Luke could have found a lot of FS people during his search.....and one of them could even be tied to Rey.

vaderito wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
I'm actually glad they aren't sweeping the whole "the Force runs stronger in certain families" thing under the rug. They've actually explored the Force being random in Rebels (and the Prequel Trilogy) as well. I'm assuming Jedi didn't often have children, yet there was an abundance of young Force Sensitives to train at the Corusant temple. Ezra's parents in Rebels also weren't Force Sensitive, and he's quite powerful. You also meet other Force Sensitive children whose parents weren't Force Sensitive. So the whole idea of the Force being inclusive is being kept too.

@FrolickingFizzgig

So Space Harry Potter, with Rey possibly being Hermione/Lily (Muggle-born FS). Fine by me cause major HP fan. Could make a beautiful story.

@vaderito
I might not say the equivalent of Muggle-born because Rey is definitely a lost somebody. She isn't just a simple scavenger. There are big secrets in her past, and those secrets have been positioned to surround exactly what happened to her family and why she can't remember. I see no evidence in the film suggesting she has a blood relation to any character we've met before, so I'm keeping myself open to the possibility that her origins will be grounded in this trilogy alone, not an older one.

panki wrote:

vaderito wrote:Hmmmm...



From Bloodlines. seems to re-state that the Force is hereditary rather than "anyone can be strong with the Force". So Rey Random unlikely. "Certian families" opens the door to certain families beyond Skywalkers. cause obviously Luke found FS students who weren't Skywalkers.

@vaderito

I hope they start bringing in descendants of PT jedi from EU into canon...there is so much potential for it, particularly power dynamics.....

1. Mace Windu's clan (ghosh windu) had FS members in the EU....they struggle between the light and dark side just like Mace Windu did.
2. Ki Adi Mundi had a daughter who struggled with her father being a jedi...maybe she had descendants.
3. Quinlan Vos had a son (one in every 100 Kiffars had psychometry powers so it could be an unrelated clan member)
4. Togrutans like Shaak Ti and Ahsoka could sense things without even using the Force.
5. Count Dooku (former jedi, then sith apprentice) had a siblings so he could could have FS descendants.

Then there could be descendants of either Ezra or Kanan, Palpatine, the inquisitors etc....or even Obi-wan did have a lost child.......Luke could have found a lot of FS people during his search.....and one of them could even be tied to Rey.

@panki
I think it would be the best, it doesn't need a lot of explaining

I think that sentence about the force running strong in certain families is just someone's opinion or view...'they say'...but of course that's not always the case.

Ir says certain families and the word sometimes so not always.

However fizz, I'm curious do you think that obi wan calling to Rey is not a hint of who she is? And that there no evidence.

the force vision is being shown to her by someone and I think it's pretty safe to suggest its obi wan because of the way he calls out and is still talking even after the vision ends. They also took effort to get Ewan in to say these words to Rey rather than just have some old recorded voices from Star Wars.

 This technique is used to seperate him from the rest of the visuals and audio we just heard. It's a standard technique used to show that someone speaking is not part of the actual vision that a character is going through. He shouts Rey as if from above the second after he shows her parents leaving  and is a voice calling from outside. Hence the reasons she looks up like wtf. Then it ends and he's still whispering and saying "these are your firs steps" again indicating that he just showed her what she must do.

People can say that he's just calling to her because it's a callback(really? When they made Ewan come in? Come on it's important) but then consider what he is showing her. He shows her Luke who she finds, he shows her kylo ren who she must face but then he chooses to try and show her who she is and where she comes from and he actually calls out to her the second he shows her her parents . That part does not fit with vision at all. All of it is suggesting what she must do so if  as you say her background is not going to be important why was it in one of the most important parts of the film? And why did Obi wan call to Rey the second he showed her the past and her parents? We already know she's not a skywalker so it's not telling her shes linked to Luke. Him calling to her the second you see her parents is to make you subliminally connect the two

Secondly , why would obi wan decide to try and show her who her parents are and what her background is? Unless he is trying to say that she is linked with him. Because the vision is about what she must do not about going back. Could it be obi wan is trying to tell her that she is part of him and to now move on?

These words by Kevin Trevorrow are relevat to the matter :

Which brings us back to those theories: Now that they have finally seen The Force Awakens, fans are busy speculating about the lineage of one character in particular, Rey (Daisy Ridley). Is she actually Rey Skywalker, daughter of Luke (Mark Hamill)? Or could she be Obi-Wan Kenobi's granddaughter?

"We're going to make sure that that answer is deeply and profoundly satisfying," Trevorrow promised, avoiding addressing any specific theory.
"Rey is a character that is important in this universe, not just in the context of The Force Awakens, but in the entire galaxy," he elaborated. "She deserves it. We'll make sure that that answer is something that feels like it was something that happened a long time ago, far away, and we're just telling you what happened."

They are from this article:

http://www.etonline.com/news/179765_colin_trevorrow_promises_satisfying_answer_to_star_wars_theories/

What he says here seems to indicate that she is no random girl. What's more, her origins are relevant not only in the context of TFA but also the whole saga.

Reynak wrote:These words by Kevin Trevorrow are relevat to the matter :

Which brings us back to those theories: Now that they have finally seen The Force Awakens, fans are busy speculating about the lineage of one character in particular, Rey (Daisy Ridley). Is she actually Rey Skywalker, daughter of Luke (Mark Hamill)? Or could she be Obi-Wan Kenobi's granddaughter?

"We're going to make sure that that answer is deeply and profoundly satisfying," Trevorrow promised, avoiding addressing any specific theory.
"Rey is a character that is important in this universe, not just in the context of The Force Awakens, but in the entire galaxy," he elaborated. "She deserves it. We'll make sure that that answer is something that feels like it was something that happened a long time ago, far away, and we're just telling you what happened."

They are from this article:

http://www.etonline.com/news/179765_colin_trevorrow_promises_satisfying_answer_to_star_wars_theories/

What he says here seems to indicate that she is no random girl. What's more, her origins are relevant not only in the context of TFA but also the whole saga.

@Reynak

Exactly, this suggests that her origins are not going to be new. It's a choice if you believe Daisy or the writers. I'm going to lean towards the writes. Just because what Daisy says is newer does not mean that it's more accurate.

I simply think she's saying that reys journey now is more important than who she is, which imo is not dismissing that she is connected to someone from the previous trilogies

@Gemini, I agree with you, and it is also meaningful that only two characters in the vision scene interact with Rey, one of them is Kylo, who breaks the fourth wall and tries to approach her. He is the belonging she seeks although she doesn't know yet. I think the other, the one who calls her by her given name although he never met her (which is remarkable in itself IMO) is Obi Wan, so I think he is part of the belonging that will never come back. Only two men interact with her, the other remain oblivious and static as regards her presence. Luke never acknowledges her presence and she is just a spectator there. Of the two mean who acknowledge her, one reprents her past and the other her future.

Reynak wrote:@Gemini, I agree with you, and it is also meaningful that only two chRacters in the vision scene intersct with Rey, on of them is Kylo, who breaks the fourth wall and tries to approach her, he is the belonging he seeks although he doesn't know yet. I think the other, the one who calls her by her given name although he never met her (which is remarkable in itself IMO) is Obi Wan, so I think he is part of the belonging that will never come back. Only two men interact with her, the other remain oblivious and static, one of the reprents her past and the other her future.

@Reynak

That's so true. He is interacting with her, ren looks at her and obi wan calls her by name. Both intruding into the vision. Both are part of her future and the belonging she will find

Also just look at what the writer is saying  she's basically an answer to something that happened along time ago before TFA,  obi wans  solitude? We already know it's not Luke.

Gemini wrote:Also just look at what the writer isnsaying she's basically an answer to something that happened along time ago before TFA obi WANs solitude?

@Gemini


Yes, that is exactly what I understood by reading his words. I keep changing my mind in the light of what I or we find here, together. My first impression was that she was Rey Random because both Luke and Obi Wan were celibate jedis and she said 'I am nobody in a trailer' but I have changed my mind, I had to in the light of many things I had to consider while thinking it over. I think Rey Kenobi covers all the incognitas, IMO, it's the option that covers everything fine. She must be Rey Kenobi, again in my opionion, I can't claim there's no way I am wrong, but I am convinced she is a Kenobi.

The whole theme of this trilogy seems to be about not being a Jedi and finding a grey area and many people think Rey and ren will choose to actively start something new. Obi wan breaking this vow previously and Rey being the result would fit in very....VERY nicely if she is related to him and Rey decides to move forward. I mean anakin also had kids and ren is the result. Having kids is a natural instinct and two of the greatest Jedi did this? (If obi wan is her grand parent)

It would raise and back up the theme that people should not be forbidden to love and have kids, because he 2 greatest elements of TFA are the result of this

Gemini wrote:Ir says certain families and the word sometimes so not always.

However fizz, I'm curious do you think that obi wan calling to Rey is not a hint of who she is? And that there no evidence.

the force vision is being shown to her by someone and I think it's pretty safe to suggest its obi wan because of the way he calls out and is still talking even after the vision ends. They also took effort to get Ewan in to say these words to Rey rather than just have some old recorded voices from Star Wars.

 This technique is used to seperate him from the rest of the visuals and audio we just heard. It's a standard technique used to show that someone speaking is not part of the actual vision that a character is going through. He shouts Rey as if from above the second after he shows her parents leaving  and is a voice calling from outside. Hence the reasons she looks up like wtf. Then it ends and he's still whispering and saying "these are your firs steps" again indicating that he just showed her what she must do.

People can say that he's just calling to her because it's a callback(really? When they made Ewan come in? Come on it's important) but then consider what he is showing her. He shows her Luke who she finds, he shows her kylo ren who she must face but then he chooses to try and show her who she is and where she comes from and he actually calls out to her the second he shows her her parents . That part does not fit with vision at all. All of it is suggesting what she must do so if  as you say her background is not going to be important why was it in one of the most important parts of the film? And why did Obi wan call to Rey the second he showed her the past and her parents? We already know she's not a skywalker so it's not telling her shes linked to Luke. Him calling to her the second you see her parents is to make you subliminally connect the two

Secondly , why would obi wan decide to try and show her who her parents are and what her background is? Unless he is trying to say that she is linked with him. Because the vision is about what she must do not about going back. Could it be obi wan is trying to tell her that she is part of him and to now move on?

@Gemini
I said blood connection. There is nothing suggesting she has a blood connection to anybody we've met before. A connection, sure. She has connections to lots of characters through parallels (and a stronger connection to Obi-Wan through the Force Back). But I honestly don't know if the whole Obi-Wan saber dialogue means anything. I watched a short interview where they asked Ewan and apparently they called him in last-minute to do that dialogue just as something neat to add to the Force Back. That might not be true I guess. Again, we'll see.

As for the saber, I think the connection here might be that it belonged to Ben at one point. I think he may have been calling her, or perhaps the Skywalker "family" in general, the four people who desperately needed this girl's help.

I'm not against Rey Kenobi, but as the narrative currently stands there is nothing to imply that Rey has a familial tie to Obi-Wan.

I can't see anything in Trevorrow's quote that suggests that Rey's lineage is important in the context of the entire saga. All he says is that Rey is an important character in the context of the entire galaxy ("galaxy", not "saga" or "series"). I think people automatically assume that Rey can't be important unless her lineage is important.

And honestly, if I haven't read about Ewan's contribution I'd never have realised that Obi-Wan's voice was even in the movie.

thetes nothing in TFA which suggests she has familial ties to random people who are new to the saga. Nothing at all.

I guess when it comes to obi wan we will have to disagree. There are plenty of hints that she is related to him in every part of the film. Right down to recurring themes in the saga.

Even if it's just a call back. It's still a hint that she is a kenobi because she is physically and naturally doing what obi wan did for Luke  at the end. Her character is doing what obi wan did which is a hint about who she is. Luke's reaction to this also suggests that she reminds him of someone

Him calling to her is not a callback either that's something of the present and is happening directly to her which moves the plot forward.


And then everyone who wants her to be random believes what Daisy said but dismisses what the writer says. He strongly hints that her parentage is not confined just to this new trilogy but the whole saga. She's basically the answer/explanation to something which happened a long time ago. It's not deeply profound if this girl is an answer to something random which happened a long time ago and is not connected  to anything which the audience has fond memories of.

Why are people ignoring what the writer said about who she is. It does not indicate new character with new origins in the slightest being invented in TFA.

Saracene wrote:I can't see anything in Trevorrow's quote that suggests that Rey's lineage is important in the context of the entire saga. All he says is that Rey is an important character in the context of the entire galaxy ("galaxy", not "saga" or "series"). I think people automatically assume that Rey can't be important unless her lineage is important.

And honestly, if I haven't read about Ewan's contribution I'd never have realised that Obi-Wan's voice was even in the movie.

if Reys origins are something new being created in TFA then it directly contradicts what the writer says about it not being confined to TFA.

Upon first reading what he says I immediately took it to mean that she has ties to someone from the very start. You have to really pic apart his words and twist them to make it seem like he's not talking about that imo
@Saracene

Gemini wrote:thetes nothing in TFA which suggests she has familial ties to random people who are new to the saga. Nothing at all.

I guess when it comes to obi wan we will have to disagree. There are plenty of hints that she is related to him in every part of the film. Right dmc own to recurring themes in the saga.

Even if it's just a call back. It's still a hint that she is a kenobi because she is physically and naturally doing what obi wan did for like at the end. Her character is doing what obi wan did which is a hint about who she is. Luke's reaction to this also suggests thatvshevremibds him of someone

Him calling to her is not a callback either that's something of the present and is happening directly to her which moves the plot forward.


And then everyone who wants her to be random believes what Daisy said but dismisses what the writer says. He strongly hints that her parentage is not confined just to this new trilogy but the whole saga. She's basically the answer/explanation to something which happened a long time ago. It's not deeply profound if this girl is an answer to something which happened a long time ago which is not connected  to anything which the audience has fond memories of.

Why are people ignoring what the writer said about who she is. It does not indicate new character with new origins in the slightest

@Gemini
I don't want Rey to be from a new bloodline over a legacy bloodline. I have no opinion. I'll even screenshot the fact that I haven't voted on any lineage poll of you want (I think you'll take my word on it though).

There's nothing to suggest she has a blood tie to anything (yet) which is exactly why I'm keeping my options wide open. I can see this going in a lot of different ways. There are no direct clues... which again, leads me to believe it's more of a red-herring than anything else, used to overshadow Kylo's importance in the narrative. Any blood Reylation theory is basically a stab in the dark (though some of course are a lot more likely than others, like Kenobi).

And I'm with @Saracene as far as Trevorrow's interview goes. I'm not ignoring anything. I just see nothing that indicates that Rey can't be given a "profoundly satisfying" backstory or become a character who is "important to the galaxy" without being related to someone from an older saga. It all depends on what kind of story they intend on telling.

I see you're now accusing @Saracene of twisting words. I don't understand why this topic has become such a minefield...

I just don't see how "galaxy" is interchangeable with "series" or "saga". "Galaxy" refers to world or space. If Rey has importance to the entire galaxy, I take it as meaning, she is important to the bigger world than what we've seen in TFA (whose world was rather small).

I'm not really invested in any kind of heritage for Rey. If she's a Kenobi, fine, Palpatine, fine, random, fine, some new player in the series, fine. I'm just interested in the story and mechanics. I've seen plenty of arguments for Rey being a Kenobi in terms of themes, parallels etc., but to me that's just not enough to make a workable theory. Like I mentioned before, Rey Skywalker may not make sense, but at least its proponents offered some concrete, detailed scenarios.

Yikes this topic seems to be a big point of contention among us here. We don't have to agree on everything, but we can be civil in our disagreement, I think.

Can we all continue to believe as we want and allow our friends the same courtesy? No one is right and no one is wrong until we see for ourselves in the film, so why fight? Let's not do that here, there is enough division and toxicity out there and we are all in this together. It's just us now. ^^

Yes, don't fight again

She could be anybody...but like Daisy said, where she comes from is not as important as the relationships she will form...so I'll take Daisy's word for it...