ARCHIVE: Rey's Lineage Discussion II - 2

@Gemini
The thing I'm 100% sure of is that Daisy never said that Rey's backstory "never" changed through three different story treatments. There's nothing to say Daisy has even read the Arndt or Lucas treatments. Very few people (LucasFilm execs) are known to have taken a look at Lucas' treatment, and that was long before Daisy came into the picture. There's no reason for her to know the Arndt treatment either. She said she heard Rey's backstory during the filming of TFA, and that it hasn't changed since that point (since she first heard it). That's all she said.

it's speculation.

I just don't think its really good to assume what Lucas actually  wanted when no one actually knows even with all the info which has emerged people are still split on it, no one knows. I don't actually know. It's a guess.

What gets me is the amount of rumours going around about that Maisie girl. They wanted an unknown actress (reys character) wanted her to originally be 20 years old (reys character) they wanted her to be mixed race ( early concept art of Rey) and they wanted her to be a kenobi...somehow that came out of that casting call across multiple media. Kenobi descendent is the only thing unconfirmed from that list about Reys character.

Gemini wrote:it's speculation.

I just don't think its really good to assume what Lucas actually  wanted when no one actually knows even with all the info which has emerged people are still split on it, no one knows. I don't actually know. It's a guess.

What gets me is the amount of rumours going around about that Maisie girl. They wanted an unknown actress (reys character) wanted her to originally be 20 years old (reys character) they wanted her to be mixed race ( early concept art of Rey) and they wanted her to be a kenobi...somehow that came out of that casting call across multiple media. Kenobi descendent is the only thing unconfirmed from that list about Reys character.

@Gemini

it is an educated guess, so a good one, and think of it, would GL right something that did not rhyme in ring theory?

as for the rest "Per fas et nefas"

So hyped.

Just read the novel again.

The sequence is him wrenching a saber from the ground in the day time in the novel and then it turns to night and rain

He's having a vision through that saber he picks up. It all makes sense when you piece it together in sequence

A vision of Rey through that saber just like she is having a vision of him

And then they removed that saber! It's coming back next movie im sure of it

This is how narratively she is a Kenobi to me it's unbelievably clear what jj is trying to put across with her

MEETING THE ORIGINAL TRIO AND WHAT SHE REPRESENTS

1 Han Solo, when obi wan first met Han Solo he wants to hire Han,this time it's reversed. he tells luke that he thinks an ancient weapon is not as good as a blaster then obi wan shows Rey an ancient weapon.



2 Leia, obi wan first represented hope to leia

u

3. Luke, when obi wan first met luke he prompted him into the fight with his fathers lightsaber

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

@Mrs Ben Solo
I'm not convinced either, but I'm far from against it. I like it well enough. I found that the more evidence I heard the more I was starting to dislike it, so I decided to step away and just let it happen if it's meant to happen. I've expressed my doubt about it a bunch of times, but even so my reaction to Rey Kenobi would still be like:



Or maybe:



I presume it would be done well, and that's all I want. A good story. I also find the major evidence shaky at best, but that is just my opinion. I don't see it yet. I could come around to it in like five seconds flat.

Anyway, this stuff probably belongs in the lineage thread.

@FrolickingFizzgig

I'd have the same reaction. And I can say that many people I know would have the same reaction. Actually some people will wonder who is this OB1. For the very casual SW viewers I know he is not a main character. The OT trio, yes, but Obi Wan was only in 1 movie of the OT. Nice old man with an accent. And PT is not exactly a favorite out there so unfortunately it did not help to put OB1 in the pantheon of SW for the very casual characters. I do like Obi Wan, but I am really struggling to place him in the story as an ancestor to Rey in a way that could bring value to my very casual viewers without losing the momentum. I'd love it if they would tie him in the story, but to me it does not need to be through Rey.

Could it just be that Rey is a Kenobi by spirit? That the recalls are there because she has to finish OB1's mission but without being a Kenobi by blood. The superhero costume is not always picked up by a descendant

SanghaRen wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

@Mrs Ben Solo
I'm not convinced either, but I'm far from against it. I like it well enough. I found that the more evidence I heard the more I was starting to dislike it, so I decided to step away and just let it happen if it's meant to happen. I've expressed my doubt about it a bunch of times, but even so my reaction to Rey Kenobi would still be like:



Or maybe:



I presume it would be done well, and that's all I want. A good story. I also find the major evidence shaky at best, but that is just my opinion. I don't see it yet. I could come around to it in like five seconds flat.

Anyway, this stuff probably belongs in the lineage thread.

@FrolickingFizzgig

I'd have the same reaction. And I can say that many people I know would have the same reaction. Actually some people will wonder who is this OB1. For the very casual SW viewers I know he is not a main character. The OT trio, yes, but Obi Wan was only in 1 movie of the OT. Nice old man with an accent. And PT is not exactly a favorite out there so unfortunately it did not help to put OB1 in the pantheon of SW for the very casual characters. I do like Obi Wan, but I am really struggling to place him in the story as an ancestor to Rey in a way that could bring value to my very casual viewers without losing the momentum. I'd love it if they would tie him in the story, but to me it does not need to be through Rey.

Could it just be that Rey is a Kenobi by spirit? That the recalls are there because she has to finish OB1's mission but without being a Kenobi by blood. The superhero costume is not always picked up by a descendant

@SanghaRen
I love Obi-Wan. Love, love, LOVE Obi-Wan. He's my favourite character from the Prequels for sure. An amazing mentor and friend. If they have a way to make Rey Kenobi work I'll be thrilled, but the current story comes first for me, and a long lineage isn't like a couple of flashbacks revealing the truth of Ben Solo's past. A good, concise, easy-to-follow backstory that challenges Rey is all I really expect. But Force Ghosts are a thing that could solve a lot, and I would love to see some interaction between Rey and Obi-Wan whether they're related or not. Rey doesn't have to be a Kenobi to fight alongside or guide the Skywalkers. She doesn't have to be a Kenobi to follow that path, to befriend Luke or Han or Leia, to help Ben. The light within her is more important than whatever blood she possesses.

@FrolickingFizzgig

I was thinking force ghost too with the superhero, or rather supermentor costume being passed on to Rey. I still hope for a Kenobi movie with Ewan McGregor. Young Han Solo does not appeal me - but who knows if I don't change my mind - but Obi-Wan's story between III and IV, now that's something I'd like to see.

SanghaRen wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

@Mrs Ben Solo
I'm not convinced either, but I'm far from against it. I like it well enough. I found that the more evidence I heard the more I was starting to dislike it, so I decided to step away and just let it happen if it's meant to happen. I've expressed my doubt about it a bunch of times, but even so my reaction to Rey Kenobi would still be like:



Or maybe:



I presume it would be done well, and that's all I want. A good story. I also find the major evidence shaky at best, but that is just my opinion. I don't see it yet. I could come around to it in like five seconds flat.

Anyway, this stuff probably belongs in the lineage thread.

@FrolickingFizzgig

I'd have the same reaction. And I can say that many people I know would have the same reaction. Actually some people will wonder who is this OB1. For the very casual SW viewers I know he is not a main character. The OT trio, yes, but Obi Wan was only in 1 movie of the OT. Nice old man with an accent. And PT is not exactly a favorite out there so unfortunately it did not help to put OB1 in the pantheon of SW for the very casual characters. I do like Obi Wan, but I am really struggling to place him in the story as an ancestor to Rey in a way that could bring value to my very casual viewers without losing the momentum. I'd love it if they would tie him in the story, but to me it does not need to be through Rey.

Could it just be that Rey is a Kenobi by spirit? That the recalls are there because she has to finish OB1's mission but without being a Kenobi by blood. The superhero costume is not always picked up by a descendant

@SanghaRen

I just have to say Obi Wan is not some minor esoteric character that only hardcore fans would know about. He is just as known as Han Solo, Darth Vader, Luke and Princess Leia. Even before I saw a single Star Wars movie I knew who he was and that he was Luke's teacher. I'm sure if you ask most people who aren't into the movie they will recognize the name and know what franchise he is connected to.

I'm not saying yea or nay to his possible relation to Rey but he is a major and we'll known player in the Galaxy Far Far Away.

@Darth Dementor

I did the test around me. People did not recognize the name. I had to tell them it's the old guy in the first movie. I am not saying this to be mean. Every time I say this, I feel like I am regarded as an anti-Kenobi but I am not. I do like the character, really do, but the casual viewers in France and Germany I know need help in remembering who the guy is. Skywalker, of course they know, the naive blue eyed farmboy who became a Jedi. Leia, of course the princess with buns and/or slave costume in love with Harrison Ford cool guy Solo, "I know". Vader, the mean guy in black breathing with difficulty, "I am your father". Obi-Wan... Maybe he got less publicity here, I don't know. I just don't see the same automatic recognition as with the trio and Vader. Lack of distinct physical features maybe or lack of famous quotes. No idea. Or I asked the wrong people

As for his role in the Galaxy, I hope so. Again, I like the character. He is cool in his own right and deserves to be part of it. I think I should keep out of Kenobi subjects, it gets me into trouble. I wish they would have mentioned him in TFA without actually naming Legacy Boy Ben - and apparently it might not even have been originally in reference to OB1. Many people I know did not make the connection with OB1. Maybe the problem is the people I know. They need to revise their SW knowledge

Anyway, I still think he would need a little introduction as to his connection to the old trio.

So the current story is whats important? So what going on in the current story in TFA and Rey?

When the Skywalker twins are separated and one Skywalker is seduced by the dark side, a girl who is sitting around waiting in solitude on a sand planet gets called out of solitude to help a droid who leads her directly to Luke Skywalker. She then gets called to Lukes fathers lightsaber by what appears to be Obi Wan showing her that she needs to get Luke back on the quest and help Ben. Shes then told that her quest is to take the lightsaber to Luke to bring him home. She encounters Han Solo who offers her a job, She meets the grand son of Anakin Skywalker who she has an inexplicable bond with,, she meets Leia who hugs her out of desperation and hope for her son and knows shes the one who has to go help Luke (doesnt go herself)...., she meets Luke Skywalker and gives him his fathers lightsaber as a plea to get him back to the fight...

Sounds awfully familiar to something else. In all honesty I feel like theres nothing she does in her overall arc which is individual or random really in TFA

Man there are people who don't know who Obi Wan is? Just the coolest and most bad a** person in all of the movies, of course! We'll say it's a tie between him and Leia for the smartest





There's a reason why her lineage is hidden, it has to do with her mystery as to how she ended up an orphan and her parents have disappeared (lbh, they were murdered). If they wanted to make her Luke's kid, they could've just done that. It's hella boring to have it just be a dumb twist that somehow Luke didn't know he had a kid. What's the point? Same with any "Luke has a hand in her parents' disappearance" theories. If the younger member of the family killed her mentor and the older one killed her parents, that's not a family you want to hang around with - get the Hell as far away as possible from them.

So there's a different card that's up the filmmakers' sleeve. Definitely that she's there to refute the whole legacy/Bloodline trap that has forced Ben into Snoke's clutches because as of right now, she's a nobody. But it has to tie into her particular mystery and based on all of the visual clues/callbacks, my personal guess is also that she's either a grandchild or grandniece of Obi-Wan. You can bet that if Snoke was after Ben based on his bloodline, he'd be after other kids if he knew about their relation to somebody of similar background and talents.

I honestly can't believe how much this topic spiralled in the Spoilers thread. Everybody was proclaiming their support for the theory, the lightsaber theory, the vision theory, etc. but still, there are posts about how Rey Kenobi is being persecuted. It is the only lineage theory that has its own active thread, it's the most popular lineage theory on this forum and even those who aren't convinced are all for it as long as it's told well! There is no "anti" sentiment. I'll poke a little fun at facemorphs and parallels (more about Reywalker evidence than anything), but I'm 100% down with Rey Kenobi. I don't want people to feel "unwelcome" to discuss Rey Kenobi or any lineage theory in its proper place... (here, I guess).

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:I honestly can't believe how much this topic spiralled in the Spoilers thread. Everybody was proclaiming their support for the theory, the lightsaber theory, the vision theory, etc. but still, there are posts about how Rey Kenobi is being persecuted. It is the only lineage theory that has its own active thread, it's the most popular lineage theory on this forum and even those who aren't convinced are all for it as long as it's told well! There is no "anti" sentiment. I'll poke a little fun at facemorphs and parallels (more about Reywalker evidence than anything), but I'm 100% down with Rey Kenobi.I don't want people to feel "unwelcome" to discuss Rey Kenobi or any lineage theory in its proper place... (here, I guess).

@Frolickingfizzgig

This is a little embarrassing to admit but I posted something here the other day about a possible parentage avenue for Rey's story and then quickly deleted it. I actually didn't want to deal with people who are adamant about reynobi telling me I was being ridiculous for considering anything else. I've seen this happen to other posters, if they suggest Rey palpatine, for example. I think Rey could have dark side origins, or at least have something in her past that connects her to Snoke. I see him as her true antagonist as well as Kylo's. It's not that I'm opposed to Rey being a Kenobi if that's really where the story's headed, I'm just not sure it presents our heroine with any kind of challenge or potential character development.

Rey DarkSide makes a lot of sense in the context of what we were shown in TFA. Something bad happened to Rey and her family...we don't know what it is. but it will be the most important thing with regards to her parentage, and not necessarily who her parents might be.

BastilaBey wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:I honestly can't believe how much this topic spiralled in the Spoilers thread. Everybody was proclaiming their support for the theory, the lightsaber theory, the vision theory, etc. but still, there are posts about how Rey Kenobi is being persecuted. It is the only lineage theory that has its own active thread, it's the most popular lineage theory on this forum and even those who aren't convinced are all for it as long as it's told well! There is no "anti" sentiment. I'll poke a little fun at facemorphs and parallels (more about Reywalker evidence than anything), but I'm 100% down with Rey Kenobi.I don't want people to feel "unwelcome" to discuss Rey Kenobi or any lineage theory in its proper place... (here, I guess).

@Frolickingfizzgig

This is a little embarrassing to admit but I posted something here the other day about a possible parentage avenue for Rey's story and then quickly deleted it. I actually didn't want to deal with people who are adamant about reynobi telling me I was being ridiculous for considering anything else. I've seen this happen to other posters, if they suggest Rey palpatine, for example. I think Rey could have dark side origins, or at least have something in her past that connects her to Snoke. I see him as her true antagonist as well as Kylo's. It's not that I'm opposed to Rey being a Kenobi if that's really where the story's headed, I'm just not sure it presents our heroine with any kind of challenge or potential character development.

@BastilaBey

I have read some amazing dark origin theories for Rey including one that compares her to the EU character Vestara Khai who was the LI of Ben Skywalker....a dark lineage would definitely give her some conflict and challenges to overcome.

I think that Rey's backstory must have changed through pre-production as they were playing around with possible story lines and ideas...If it were up to Lucas, he would have made Rey a Solo.

Mana wrote:I think that Rey's backstory must have changed through pre-production as they were playing around with possible story lines and ideas...If it were up to Lucas, he would have made Rey a Solo.  

@Mana
I think there's confusion about this simply because "Rey" is not the same character featured in the Lucas treatment or Arndt treatment. Of course her backstory changed. Rey is Rey, Kira is not Rey. Kira only became Rey after JJ and KK took over. And we have no idea who the female protagonist was in the Lucas treatment. All we know is that the idea of a female protagonist came from Lucas. There was never any statement that it was the same female protagonist. There might have been two totally different female protagonists or three totally different ones. The difference might have been as enormous as Darth Talon vs. Kylo.

I've never been convinced Lucas intended Luke to have children. It's probable the line would have continued through Leia no matter what, but with multiple "grandchildren". Perhaps it would have been too similar to the EU, and was scrapped for that reason (among others).

It's been suggested that JJ, Kasdan and Arndt knew right from the beginning that they didn't want their main protagonist to be a Skywalker or Solo, thus "they knew who she wasn't." It's possible her backstory developed as they were writing, and it's also possible her "lineage" (possibly Kenobi) was kept from older plans.

Mana wrote:Rey DarkSide makes a lot of sense in the context of what we were shown in TFA. Something bad happened to Rey and her family...we don't know what it is. but it will be the most important thing with regards to her parentage, and not necessarily who her parents might be.

@Mana

I agree. Rey discovering she has dark side lineage provides so much more story telling potential and character development potential for Rey than Reywalker. It makes the dynamic between her and Kylo more interesting and furthers the idea of making your own way and not being beholden to your history.

It also ties in nicely with the theological aspects of the Force we're seeing in the ST (the First Jedi Temple, the Acolytes of the Beyond, the Church of the Force) and Force relics/artifacts.

If Darth Maul doesnt die in Rebels..

I think maybe this is why Rey is left on Jakku

Maul wants to kill anyone attached to Obi Wan..he has it in for him big time...killed his mentor, his love interest..

I always felt that possiby this photo of Rey holding what appears to be Mauls lightsaber hilt (end of her staff) is trying to give us a visual easter egg clue about something to do with her past, its not tied in with the narrative..just a visual easter egg..of course before I thought she may be related to him..LOL

Gemini wrote:If Darth Maul doesnt die in Rebels..

I think maybe this is why Rey is left on Jakku

Maul wants to kill anyone attached to Obi Wan..he has it in for him big time...killed his mentor, his love interest..

I always felt that possiby this photo of Rey holding what appears to be Mauls lightsaber hilt (end of her staff) is trying to give us a visual easter egg clue about something to do with her past, its not tied in with the narrative..just a visual easter egg..of course before I thought she may be related to him..LOL

@Gemini

That is an interesting observation.... I felt the resemblance between Rey's staff and Maul's lightsaber might be a clue to Dathomirian origins....but it could just be Maul.

Who are the Dathomirans?





theres also another saber hilt part right? On the other end?

Mace Windu or something?

Shes scavenged parts of sabers it seems..

edit sorry DP

It even looks a little like Plo Koon's lightsaber... that would give her a connection to Ahsoka as well (not by blood but maybe she is Ahsoka's spiritual heir....Ahsoka did possess a spark of the Mortis Daughter's life)



So Maul from one side (dark), Ahsoka from the other (light)... and Dave Filoni confirmed that it was Ahsoka who drove Maul out of Mandalore on behalf of the jedi during SW Celebration this year.

that Saber look a lot like those small hole parts on Reys staff, moreso that Mauls

I've seen other images of Mauls saber which have those holes as well

Is it a dark side type of saber?