Rey's Lineage Discussion II - 1

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

Darth Dingbat wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:I only say they could have taken some inspiration from the idea of a reversal of Anakin/Padme because of the music (backwards Across the Stars in their themes). I have yet to find any Obi-Wan connection in the music.

I also agree with what others have said over the past few weeks. Trevorrow's "deeply satisfying" comment could mean a lot of things. I now see that it very well just might be saying that her backstory is going to be fleshed out in a satisfying way, not necessarily that it will give her a connection to any other character. I really just find the whole legacy thing so convoluted. It doesn't have a place in the story to me. I'm not against Rey Kenobi, but I would take Rey Random over it any day just because it leaves more valuable screentime open for other developments. Rey Kenobi would take too much to explain in my opinion. That's just me though.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Yes - speaking in terms of narrative, it would be more satisfying if the mystery of Rey's origins is tied to this story that is unfolding right now.

So, either way - legacy character or not - I hope the mystery actually ties to what is going on in the current timeline. And if she just happens to be a legacy character... well, so be it - but I hope that's not the most important thing about her origins. It was set up as a mystery so I hope the mystery actually has a good plot of some kind.

@Darth Dingbat
Trevorrow's interview made me doubt myself for a long time, which is why I never chimed in really about her origins. Above all I just want this to be Rey's story, not her parents' story or her grandparents' story. Connecting Rey (and the story) to something that happened that long ago seems so random... especially because it doesn't seem like it'll have any impact on the plot. It's just an unnecessary complication that will use valuable screentime in-place of better developments that would be relevant to the current era. And it feels "too perfect", like the writers would be following Ring Composition to a T without faltering in the least bit.

@FrolickingFizzgig

You know this makes me have another thought. I think I read that one of the reasons that SW didn't do as well in Asia as they expected was because in places like China they had no history with the OT or the PT. The more they tie Rey to an off-screen character from movies that viewers in new markets have never seen, the more those viewers are alienated. Kylo/Ben's heritage wasn't an issue, because his parents were right onscreen. Certainly callbacks will be made to the previous trilogies because they still need to please the older Western viewers, but if Disney/LF wants the new markets to see Rey as their own, they won't have her be related to Palpatine or Kenobi. It'll either be a Snoke or a King Prana or some darksider or some underworld person or some ancient line that none of us have ever heard of so the whole audience is in it together and so no one has to do a lot of homework to find out who Rey is.

Now obviously I could be completely wrong, and maybe the way they are grabbing the Asian market is with the villain/hero romance of Kylo/Rey, and they expect people to have to do some work for the movies because it's a 40 year franchise and practically everyone in the world can get access to the older movies. It's just a thought though that they may want to make Rey "everyone's" hero by introducing her to everyone at the same time.

I accept Rey random more than anything right now. It seems like the safest option to me. Rey random could also = Rey related to King Prana mentioned once random.
I think there is too much explaining to be done if she is related to anyone we know plus it would be fresh to have a brand new lineage in the Star Wars movie series.
As much as I love the Obi-Wan idea, right now it seems just like Rey Skywalker. Grasping at call backs, hints etc.

SoloSideCousin wrote:

snufkin wrote:If you're gonna be related to anybody significant, Hell yes my vote would be for Obi-Wan, or the combined awesomeness of Ewan McGregor and Sir Alec Guiness. But even more awesome would be nobody well known. Nobody talks about Han's lineage because he's so awesome and self possessed, he's totally his own person and came from completely humble origins. I would love to see it be the same case with Rey. Obviously there is a mystery about who her biological family is and how she ended up fending for herself on Jakku (ideally I'd say it ties in with Snoke's creeper plans to snatch up kids like Ben and Finn as part of building the First Order), but please something new and more than just "I am your father" part two.

@snufkin

Ooohhh I like this.  

@SoloSideCousin

It has to be part of what ties them together, besides being the main trio. And what would be really cool would be if the truth about how Rey ended up abandoned on Jakku finally resonates with Kylo Ren and shakes him up enough to question his ties to Snoke/the FO and also realize what he lost with killing Han. If her father left her behind in a desperate attempt to protect and then was killed by the people after them, that would work from my point of view. I just hope it's not "hey I ditched you while you were in the bathroom of the filling station on Jakku when you were 5 and I was 14," because that seems like it's trying way to hard to be a shocking "I am your father" moment.

Also the "Classified...Big Secret" line has to point back to there being a reason why she's there by herself, which I'd guess has to do with whatever the main mystery/conflict is.

Gemini wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

Gemini wrote:It is stupid to say that an accent is genetic, I totally agree with him on that

What isn't stupid is the fact that an accent is the result of your surroundings and who you are raised with. a 5 year old would have developed an accent and Rey has this accent when she is dropped off and is screaming at the ship which means it is the subject of her surroundings.

They also told her to make her accent more posh sounding (why?)

They told Boyega to drop his (why?)

@Gemini
I'm not against Rey Kenobi at all, I just don't see how it fits into the narrative. It's unnecessary to me. I would much rather Rey being from a new bloodline (she can still be *somebody* in the context of this Trilogy). It really seems that's the direction they're going in. As long as her origin story is satisfying and actually fits into the story I'll be happy. I don't see Rey Kenobi having the potential to do that, but we'll see. I just don't think they're going to bother wasting screen-time on an origin story that has nothing to do with the narrative, and right now it really appears as though Rey's parents aren't as important as what happened to them.

@FrolickingFizzgig

I'm not against Rey random either...I'd be perfectly happy with Rey random but. My filmmaking eye is spotting underlying themes in the narrative..could all be head canon but the fact that the entire main plot point of the movie revolves around a Kenobi hint, is just something I'm finding hard to ignore. The whole point of the film is about completing the message that the droid/s holds and Rey returning to the base makes r2d2 mysteriously turn on and show the complete message just like in ANH, its a call back, yes but it is a major plot point of the movie, not just a random helmet on a head....my filmmaking and screenwriting brain wont allow me to ignore this If it wasnt tied in with such a major plot point I would be well on the Rey Random bandwagon..but my feet rest firmly on both LOL

It ties in because a star wars film is not complete without a Kenobi being there.

@Gemini
I just don't see that as being any more than a parallel in a movie full of parallels. A parallel based on a major plot-point is still just a parallel.

Based on the narrative they've set up, Rey Legacy means nothing, and it detracts so much from the story they've already started. No matter what this is not about what happened 30 years ago or what happened 50 years ago. It's about what's happening now. It would take so much to explain believably, and the timeline already doesn't make sense. If Obi-Wan was on Tattouine for 19 years he would have abandoned his (at the oldest) 18 year old child (who was nowhere in sight) in order to adventure with Luke and the droids. And then he would have died with no mention or thought of his child? That doesn't make any sense.

Okay, so maybe his love-interest took their child away, but what a boring/tragic story for an already tragic character. Then we're back at one-night-stand theories. Just like Rey Skywalker, it seems like a theory based on theories, not a theory based on the movie. And I really don't think Obi-Wan would have had a child. He was a Jedi through-and-through, just like Luke.

My major qualm with Rey Kenobi is how much screentime it would take to explain, and it would still leave us with more questions than answers. Alright, so maybe they're saving it for the Kenobi standalone movie... but haven't we heard again and again that the standalone movies are standalone? That they won't have anything to do with the major Trilogies?

Come on now guys...this is from the RotS novel..A skywalker and a Kenobi always belong together man...where is Kenobi to guide this skywalker? where is He?....she

Gemini wrote:Come on now guys...this is from the RotS novel..A skywalker and a Kenobi always belong together man...where is Kenobi to guide this skywalker? where is He?....she

@Gemini

Obikin will be real again!!!!!!

For the fist 15 minutes interesting discussion on JJ's brouhaha about Rey's lineage 



Collider Jedi Council - Guests Ashley Eckstein(Ahsoka Tano) & JA Taylor(Obi Wan Kenobi)

SoloSideCousin wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

Darth Dingbat wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:I only say they could have taken some inspiration from the idea of a reversal of Anakin/Padme because of the music (backwards Across the Stars in their themes). I have yet to find any Obi-Wan connection in the music.

I also agree with what others have said over the past few weeks. Trevorrow's "deeply satisfying" comment could mean a lot of things. I now see that it very well just might be saying that her backstory is going to be fleshed out in a satisfying way, not necessarily that it will give her a connection to any other character. I really just find the whole legacy thing so convoluted. It doesn't have a place in the story to me. I'm not against Rey Kenobi, but I would take Rey Random over it any day just because it leaves more valuable screentime open for other developments. Rey Kenobi would take too much to explain in my opinion. That's just me though.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Yes - speaking in terms of narrative, it would be more satisfying if the mystery of Rey's origins is tied to this story that is unfolding right now.

So, either way - legacy character or not - I hope the mystery actually ties to what is going on in the current timeline. And if she just happens to be a legacy character... well, so be it - but I hope that's not the most important thing about her origins. It was set up as a mystery so I hope the mystery actually has a good plot of some kind.

@Darth Dingbat
Trevorrow's interview made me doubt myself for a long time, which is why I never chimed in really about her origins. Above all I just want this to be Rey's story, not her parents' story or her grandparents' story. Connecting Rey (and the story) to something that happened that long ago seems so random... especially because it doesn't seem like it'll have any impact on the plot. It's just an unnecessary complication that will use valuable screentime in-place of better developments that would be relevant to the current era. And it feels "too perfect", like the writers would be following Ring Composition to a T without faltering in the least bit.

@FrolickingFizzgig

You know this makes me have another thought. I think I read that one of the reasons that SW didn't do as well in Asia as they expected was because in places like China they had no history with the OT or the PT. The more they tie Rey to an off-screen character from movies that viewers in new markets have never seen, the more those viewers are alienated. Kylo/Ben's heritage wasn't an issue, because his parents were right onscreen. Certainly callbacks will be made to the previous trilogies because they still need to please the older Western viewers, but if Disney/LF wants the new markets to see Rey as their own, they won't have her be related to Palpatine or Kenobi. It'll either be a Snoke or a King Prana or some darksider or some underworld person or some ancient line that none of us have ever heard of so the whole audience is in it together and so no one has to do a lot of homework to find out who Rey is.

Now obviously I could be completely wrong, and maybe the way they are grabbing the Asian market is with the villain/hero romance of Kylo/Rey, and they expect people to have to do some work for the movies because it's a 40 year franchise and practically everyone in the world can get access to the older movies. It's just a thought though that they may want to make Rey "everyone's" hero by introducing her to everyone at the same time.

@SoloSideCousin
This is a great point, and I completely completely agree. This trilogy wasn't made to target old fans of the franchise, it was made to introduce new fans and entrance a new generation of moviegoers all over the world. Rey's origins being fundamental to the story and not connected to the past 60+ years of Star Wars history would be the better move from that perspective. As you said, she can be "everyone's" hero, her story can be appreciated by every fan, even those who haven't seen the Prequel or Original trilogies. This has to be a self-contained story, just like the other two, as I've been saying from the beginning.

Well they certainly drew in a substantial young female audience with reylo and Rey on her own they know what they are doing man. Create a dark romance but throw in a triangle to get people arguing like with twilight lol

Little_Boots wrote:I accept Rey random more than anything right now. It seems like the safest option to me. Rey random could also = Rey related to King Prana mentioned once random.
I think there is too much explaining to be done if she is related to anyone we know plus it would be fresh to have a brand new lineage in the Star Wars movie series.
As much as I love the Obi-Wan idea, right now it seems just like Rey Skywalker. Grasping at call backs, hints etc.

@Little_Boots

I think it was either Kathleen Kennedy or JJ that once said we aren't getting a separate cast of all new characters to explain Rey's origins. Of course, many people took this to mean she was either a Solo or a Skywalker. Reading this statement again though, doesn't it look like it could mean Random?

I love the idea - previously though I just didn't think it was likely. However, the daughter of nobody and the son of legends has a certain rhyme to it that's incredibly beautiful.

IoJovi wrote:

Little_Boots wrote:I accept Rey random more than anything right now. It seems like the safest option to me. Rey random could also = Rey related to King Prana mentioned once random.
I think there is too much explaining to be done if she is related to anyone we know plus it would be fresh to have a brand new lineage in the Star Wars movie series.
As much as I love the Obi-Wan idea, right now it seems just like Rey Skywalker. Grasping at call backs, hints etc.

@Little_Boots

I think it was either Kathleen Kennedy or JJ that once said we aren't getting a separate cast of all new characters to explain Rey's origins.  Of course, many people took this to mean she was either a Solo or a Skywalker.  Reading this statement again though, doesn't it look like it could mean Random?  

I love the idea - previously though I just didn't think it was likely.  However, the daughter of nobody and the son of legends has a certain rhyme to it that's incredibly beautiful.  

@IoJovi

My Mum is of the similar opinion (she seems to have no real set opinion mostly apart from Rey shouldn't be the daughter of Luke) but she said why does Rey need to be the daughter of anyone.  Can't she just be her.  So for the time being she's leaning toward Rey nobody.  But I imagine it will have changed the next time I ask her!!  

My Dad however is still in the Reywalker camp because he just can't accept the idea she could be FS without being related to Luke - even though I explained that being FS isn't exclusive to the Skywalker family - see OB1!)

My thoughts on Rey's origins (even before I cared so much for Reylo) were Kenobi, Palpatine or Benicio playing King Prana and her being his daughter (legitimate or illegitimate). But I was always against her being a Skywalker by birth or a Solo by birth.

IoJovi wrote:

Little_Boots wrote:I accept Rey random more than anything right now. It seems like the safest option to me. Rey random could also = Rey related to King Prana mentioned once random.
I think there is too much explaining to be done if she is related to anyone we know plus it would be fresh to have a brand new lineage in the Star Wars movie series.
As much as I love the Obi-Wan idea, right now it seems just like Rey Skywalker. Grasping at call backs, hints etc.

@Little_Boots

I think it was either Kathleen Kennedy or JJ that once said we aren't getting a separate cast of all new characters to explain Rey's origins. Of course, many people took this to mean she was either a Solo or a Skywalker. Reading this statement again though, doesn't it look like it could mean Random?

I love the idea - previously though I just didn't think it was likely. However, the daughter of nobody and the son of legends has a certain rhyme to it that's incredibly beautiful.

@IoJovi

To me that statement means she's not a random. What if Ewan mcgreggor comes back as a force ghost?

@Rogue Rey My opinion seems to change every minute or so on where she could come from.  Some days it's Kenobi, other days it's Palpatine, some days it's Random.  Today it's King Prana, and we have the compelling conversation in the Confused Feelings thread to thank for that (nice job everybody BTW for that!)

I'm sure it will change again though before noon today...



Edit:  @Gemini Not necessarily.  Rey Random could be explained in a short scene describing her parents who could be long dead.  Even if she's Kenobi, he'd still be her Grandfather, which would mean the audience has never met her actual mom and dad.

During the interrogation scene, he said: he's like the father you've never had. Maybe she's without a father figure. I'm thinking she was abandoned by her mother (but Pablo said it was a male voice). I'm confused

One of the major reasons I would prefer Rey's story to be her own has to do with the fact that any legacy relation would take too much time to flesh out and explain in a satisfying way. It would feel out-of-place unless they devoted significant screen-time to explaining the hows and whys. The further we have to go back, the more screentime it'll take, and none of it will have any impact on the current narrative or era. It would just be a connection for the sake of a connection. It would equate to less screen-time being devoted to the current era's character interactions, and that's not something I would trade for any backstory. Rey Random (new bloodline/backstory that is actually relevant to the current era) is the better move for Rey and Kylo's development, both separately and together.

spacebaby45678 wrote:For the fist 15 minutes interesting discussion on JJ's brouhaha about Rey's lineage 



Collider Jedi Council - Guests Ashley Eckstein(Ahsoka Tano) & JA Taylor(Obi Wan Kenobi)

@spacebaby45678

Oh they are starting to accept the true..slowly but surely. I like that.

I find this video interesting, I like his way of thinking! | The more time passes, the more I'm convinced that she's related to Prana in some way.

2:25: "Unless she's Luke's daughter or Han's daughter or Obi-Wan Kenobi's granddaughter, she's probably just gonna be related to some new character we haven't met yet." (we're focusing our attention on something which doesn't really seem this important...)

It would take a lot of explaining to set up a new characte with new parents, no matter who she is it's going to be hard. But Luke would have been the easiest lol

Gemini wrote:It would take a lot of explaining to set up a new characte with new parents, no matter who she is it's going to be hard. But Luke would have been the easiest lol

@Gemini
I disagree. It would take much less explaining because nobody would have an emotional attachment to them and wouldn't expect more information than is necessary. No matter what her origins should be integral to the plot of the trilogy. She has to be connected to someone, but that someone should be important to the narrative, even if he's a new character (which is looking likely). There are two sides to this narrative: the Resistance (including Luke, Han, Leia, etc.) and the First Order. We know she has no link to the Resistance, so that leaves the First Order/dark side.

Luke really wouldn't have been the easiest to explain. No explanation would ever have made a lick of sense based on the canon timeline.

Gemini wrote:It would take a lot of explaining to set up a new characte with new parents, no matter who she is it's going to be hard. But Luke would have been the easiest lol

@Gemini

Au contraire, Luke would require the most exposition:

Why the heck did he abandon his kid?
Who is the mother?
How come Han and Leia didn't know?
Why didn't anyone in Skywalker-Solo family mention a little girl?

With random parents, you deal with the package. They dropped the kid cause reasons and you are done. Luke thingy involves way too many characters because they can't look good in this mess. Nobody cares whether some brand new characters that we never met and never will made a mess.

vaderito wrote:

Gemini wrote:It would take a lot of explaining to set up a new characte with new parents, no matter who she is it's going to be hard. But Luke would have been the easiest lol

@Gemini

Au contraire, Luke would require the most exposition:

Why the heck did he abandon his kid?
Who is the mother?
How come Han and Leia didn't know?
Why didn't anyone in Skywalker-Solo family mention a little girl?

With random parents, you deal with the package. They dropped the kid cause reasons and you are done. Luke thingy involves way too many characters because they can't look good in this mess. Nobody cares whether some brand new characters that we never met and never will made a mess.

@vaderito
All of this. Rey Random (important to the narrative of this trilogy, not the others) is the easiest to explain by far. And it's best for every character involved, for the overall story and for simplicity's sake.

vaderito wrote:

Gemini wrote:It would take a lot of explaining to set up a new characte with new parents, no matter who she is it's going to be hard. But Luke would have been the easiest lol

@Gemini

Au contraire, Luke would require the most exposition:

Why the heck did he abandon his kid?
Who is the mother?
How come Han and Leia didn't know?
Why didn't anyone in Skywalker-Solo family mention a little girl?

With random parents, you deal with the package. They dropped the kid cause reasons and you are done. Luke thingy involves way too many characters because they can't look good in this mess. Nobody cares whether some brand new characters that we never met and never will made a mess.

@vaderito

Yes to this.

Has anyone thought of the possibility of Rey's father being the one who created the FO(while her mother could be a DS)?It could be an interesting possibility since he'll still be a new character(possibly dead)but Rey would still be connected to the main story without having to be a Skywalker or just someone Random(not that there's anything wrong with that).It would also add another layer to her frindhsip with Finn.Imagine learbing that you're related to the person who was responsible for taking away young chidlren from their families and brainwashing them especially since Finn was also one of those children.Rey would feel imense guilt since he's already became a family to her.It coudl aslo ldead to her separating herself from him because she might think Finn won't accept her if he knew who she was related to.Guilt+anger could also be main factors in being tempted by the DS.

CienaRee wrote:Has anyone thought of the possibility of Rey's father being the one who created the FO(while her mother could be a DS)?It could be an interesting possibility since he'll still be a new character(possibly dead)but Rey would still be connected to the main story without having to be a Skywalker or just someone Random(not that there's anything wrong with that).It would also add another layer to her frindhsip with Finn.Imagine learbing that you're related to the person who was responsible for taking away young chidlren from their families and brainwashing them especially since Finn was also one of those children.Rey would feel imense guilt since he's already became a family to her.It coudl aslo ldead to her separating herself from him because she might think Finn won't accept her if he knew who she was related to.Guilt+anger could also be main factors in being tempted by the DS.

@CienaRee
If they want to spice things up, anything is possible. I'm in for rey Kenobi, random, dark sider daughter, anything.

CienaRee wrote:Has anyone thought of the possibility of Rey's father being the one who created the FO(while her mother could be a DS)?It could be an interesting possibility since he'll still be a new character(possibly dead)but Rey would still be connected to the main story without having to be a Skywalker or just someone Random(not that there's anything wrong with that).It would also add another layer to her frindhsip with Finn.Imagine learbing that you're related to the person who was responsible for taking away young chidlren from their families and brainwashing them especially since Finn was also one of those children.Rey would feel imense guilt since he's already became a family to her.It coudl aslo ldead to her separating herself from him because she might think Finn won't accept her if he knew who she was related to.Guilt+anger could also be main factors in being tempted by the DS.

@CienaRee

I like it except that it would parallel too much Luke and Vader, especially if the father is still alive. But I don't doubt her parents are villains, and her father could be Benicio Del Toro's character, and could have some sort of relation with the FO. (Prana perhaps...)

Another idea that I would really like is if Luke killed her parents or at least one of her parents.