Why are Some Fans So Fixated on Rey Skywalker?

Deleted.

And how I wish they'd stop seeing Rey as 'immaculate'. She's not. She most definitely tapped into the 'dark' at the end of TFA, she's as flawed a character as Kylo in her own way, but she hasn't faced any of the challenges he faced yet.
None of the OC were perfect - Leia's devotion to politics meant she put everyone else second, Han started out as a man who only loved money, Luke faced his own demons. It was what made them loveable.

We haven't seen Episode VIII yet......

Some fans(most the antis)also seem to be under the impression that Reywalker is so much better than Rey Random because of the latter happened and Rey falls in love with Kylo it would be sexist if her story revolves around saving him.While I'm sure Rey will get her own trilas and dmeons to work with even if there was a romance between her and Kylo why it is so awful for them if Rey played  huge  role in Kylo's redemption.She's the heroine if she's not the main driving force for Kylo's change of heart(like Luke was for Vader)it would really feel out of place and make no sense whatsoever.I haven't heard anyone critcizing Luke risking his life to bring bakc Vader to the light eventhough he cut of his hand,tortured his sister and best friend and killed his mentor and father figure yet appreantly it won't make any sense for Rey to want to redeem Kylo if she's not related to him but felt a deep connection with him and loved him romantically(unless she's a Skywalker in whcih case she could redeem him because it makes so much more sense .They  enjoy to making fun of the ST being about lover vs lover but that's actually a trope that's very popular in other cultures and it could also help SW in the Chinese market since the recpetion there has bene lukewarm at best.

I hate that storyline - Jaina Solo kills her own brother - her twin. It's heartrending and completely erases the theme of 'redemption' Star Wars has always been about.

I DO NOT want Kylo dead. I want him saved. He's suffered all his life. Unlike Hux, who is completely dedicated to the First Order, Kylo sees it as a substitute for the love and understanding he wants in life. His parents, he thinks, don't want him. His uncle didn't understand him. Even the First Order see him as a freak. Snoke, who he desperately wanted to be a 'father figure' , has started to take on 'feet of clay'. His heart is being broken, he honestly is being torn to bits because he doesn't know what he wants. Hux wants power because he's been made to feel inadequate due to the circumstances of his birth. Kylo thinks he wants power but what he really wants is someone to know how he feels.

If he's redeemed what a lovely legacy for the OC - their descendant ultimately battles the two sides of his nature and wins. The 'Grey' Jedi replace the Sith and the Jedi as a force in the galaxy - a force for good. And all thanks to a little scavenger girl from a desert planet.

I actually disagree with the whole "her having to be related to someone is sexist" ideal when it comes to the Rey Skywalker argument. She's not a skywalker but the whole sexist thing just doesn't work for me in this argument.

The tradition that only male Heros can inherit from their anscestors and only female Heros can inherit by marriage needs to change and if Rey helps to break it, that's great. Be she random or related.

Because women all around the world, throughout time and in literature and even early Disney movies were kept out of inheritance of their ancestry. In the old Disney movies a random or an orphan woman's only claim to inheritance in these films was through marriage into another family or marriage to a prince. This is why I'm not a huge fan of the whole "reys soul purpose is to find an adoptive family and be married into that family" and "Rey will marry Ben the prince" idea. Just ain't feeling that.

More modern stories and Disney films allow female lead characters, orphans etc to inherit their birthright just as much as a male character does in a story.

It's actually backwards and regressive in my opinion to have reys inheritance in this story be the surname "Solo" and marriage to prince Ben. That's old fashioned storytelling when it comes to a female character. That's what they used to do in the 30s in Disney movies. Thankfully more modern female Heros have claim to birthright just as much as male heros.

Can't she just be herself? And if she happens to be related to someone of importance, allow her to claim that birthright as much as a male would.

Look at Jon snow, he is a bastard, an orphan and unsure of who his mother is and yet look at what has happened with his reveal? I don't see the internet crying sexism when it's a male underdog who finds out his link to his anscestors in traditional storytelling. When he inherits his birthright everyone screams and claps for joy!

People also think he is more deserving of it than Sansa, someone who by blood deserves that birthright more than Jon snow because she is Neds actual daughter but she is denied her birthright and the Internet tells her to go back with Tyrion and continue her marriage with him. "B**** should shut up and be happy with what she gets" It's regressive and the show is trying to put his forth.

What's regressive is that people use Luke and want to make rey Luke

@Gemini Yeah I think it goes both ways. I think maybe it starts to seem like sexism to some whenever someone claims it absolutely has to be one way or the other, with no allowance for other options, just because Rey is a girl.

She could be a legacy character, or she could not be, and she would be just as valuable either way. I don't personally think Finn is a legacy character, and that is awesome to me. Kylo is a legacy character and I love that. And for Rey, I, personally, just don't know what she is yet. She'd be cool either way, I think. Just like how Luke and Leia had a legacy and Han did not, but all were still great characters. Leia wasn't gonna have an important legacy until the end of the story until they changed it etc. and she didn't even need it. But it was also really great when they decided to take her character in that direction. And now Kylo carries that legacy from his mother and it it just as valid as any child of Luke's.

And even if someone does think she has to be one thing or another, even if someone thinks she has to be a Skywalker or else the story makes no sense, I don't think it has to come from sexism, either. Maybe it does for some. maybe some have some internalized, subconscious sexism. But I kind of think everyone has that in some form or another. I don't think anyone can really declare themselves completely pure of any sexism of any shape or form like that. Idk moral superiority irks me and I never really believe anyone who tries to claim it. I certainly try not to be sexist, but I can realize later that sometimes my assumptions have come from a sexist place. I try to make no claim on perfection of any form and try to allow myself to make mistakes. And sometimes it's just mixed in with a lot of other motivators behind an assumption or belief and it's impossible to isolate whether or not I've been sexist. Blanket statements and motivations like "it's sexist to think -----" are never really gonna hold up when it comes to theories like this.

Anyway, I think a lot of Skywalker believers just also want to be right about what they saw. They think what Maz said, the idea that the lightsaber belonged to Anakin, then Luke, and now calls to her, means she is in a line of inheritance. I don't blame anyone who thinks that way, really. On dark days, I still somtimes worry and wonder if they might be right, tbh.

It's just a narrative guessing game we are all playing. It's not a campaign. Though sometimes people begin to see it that way, I think. Heck, sometimes I start to see it as a campaign and have to remind myself that it isn't. So someone could even think she is a Skwyalker, but also think it's a terrible, sexist story to tell. But I guess calls of sexism are coming from the reasons a lot of more pushy Skywalker believers give or don't give, but that it going to be diverse, so it can't really be generalized and applied to the entire theory.

And even if Rey is a "random" and marries in to the "line" I don't think she'd really need to inherit "Solo" or "Skywalker" legacy through marriage. She'd then make her own important legacy in the story, just like Padme and Han did, even though they married into the "Skywalker line." Their marriage wasn't the most important thing about them. Maybe poor writing sort of made it the defining trait of Padme, but her story doesn't have to be seen that way (she did a lot of important things in her own right and it is often is ignored). So, it also didn't have to be written that way. It could have been written more like Han's story. There is absolutely no question, I believe, that Han made a name for himself and his marriage to Leia is far from his defining trait.

And a lot of Disney movies make it seem like women can't be important without being a princess, either by birth or marriage, which leads to this princess obsession in general that many young girls have. Not that wanting to be a princess is a bad thing. But Mulan was just as cool as Cinderella and Rapunzel, one a princess by marriage and one princess by birth. Some say Mulan is cool enough that she deserves to be a princess. Or that she is even cooler than Cinderella or Rapunzel. But I'm just like, whatever, the more diverse stories and options women have, the better. Women can have no legacy to inherit, be born into a legacy, or marry in to a legacy, and it doesn't have to diminish her character at all any any of the situations if the story is written well.

But you are right about the more modern stories allowing women to claim birthright, I think. like Rapunzel in Tangled claiming her birthright. Snow White had a legacy, right? She was royalty but had it stolen away by the queen? And instead of getting to reclaim her birthright from the evil queen, she rode off to the prince's palace, ignoring her old castle and family and life. So there definitely seems to be some progression of focusing on the story of the female lead. Tbh, I don't like the writing of the Snow White Disney original story, so I have no problem calling it sexist, but Cinderella, while perhaps a bit sexist, seems less so to me. At least, if anyone has seen the modern animated sequel they made, Cinderella III, I think they made Cinderella much more awesome in it, so maybe I get some bias from there. Whatever, all of the stories have their virtues and their faults. Nothing is flawless. But I can see what you are talking about the progression of women being able to claim birthright. It would be cool if Rey could continue the progression in that area. She doesn't have to, but it would be cool.

Anyway, it wasn't bad that Aladdin inherited his place as prince through marrying Jasmine, or that Belle became a princess by marrying the beast. And it wasn't wrong that Mulan wasn't Royal. But it also wasn't wrong that Elsa inherited her place as Queen of Arendelle. Elsa inheriting the kingdom was freaking awesome. So, yeah, inheritance isn't essential, but it should definitely be an option when it comes to storytelling for female characters, as you point out.

You can really look at the whole situation in any way and call it either sexist or progressive to think one way or the other. And you can use valid reasoning for any argument, really. But, yeah, calling any theory inherently sexist or the "most progressive" also feels wrong to me. And using that for reasoning for why the storyline will go in that direction makes very little sense to me either. And I don't think most of us need that argument, though I can see why people would complain about it. But we have plenty of story and plot evidence for our theories, just as many others do.

Anyway, I think the "let Rey be Rey" thing means that whoever she is, inheritor of legacy or "random" orphan, just let her be awesome in either story, like you said.

ITA^^^^^
Awesome post

Being a princess is not really regressive to me if that princess is actually the heir to the kingdom.  The regressive Disney princesses all had to marry in their stories

Most Disney movies revolving around male characters are also princes or heirs to kingdoms.

I think that's just Disney, almost always about royalty. But that's not really through sexism, it's just because it is captivating storytelling when a random, orphan child turns out to be the heir to the kingdom, the hero blood etc. That's why Jon snow

Spoiler:

It's epic in all its proportions and heartwarming

I just don't get why the same effect is not felt with female characters if they happen to have claim to the kingdom, bothers me.

I really don't think it comes from a place of sexism either. Everyone would automatically assume that Rey was a Skywalker even if she was a male character, and would be mad if she wasn't. Because they have on their nostalgia glasses and just want the character to be an extension of Luke, because many people just don't care about the character on her own yet. Which is valid; Luke is a classic and beloved hero (and people get touchy about continuations). Also we've just met Rey, and I respect and partially agree with arguments that she doesn't have quite the flesh and flaws that Luke did, even if I think that will change going forward.

Basically I strongly believe the attachment to Rey Skywalker would be the same regardless of gender. A ton of people would still be saying "if he's not a Skywalker then who cares" if Rey was male.

I don't think it's regressive whether she's legacy or not, as long as it's done right. But if Rey is a legacy, she can't just be an extension of that legacy like people seem to want her to be, and I don't think her story being about rising to/claiming her "birthright" is the best choice (even if I agree that female characters are usually left out of those kinds of inheritance stories). Especially when we kind of need her to be a contrast to Kylo, who seems to only finds worth in his bloodline connection to Vader and his "birthright". I think if Rey was a legacy character, I'd still want some degree of "your bloodline/birth doesn't matter, who you are matters" in her story. Otherwise the audience will simply see the story as "the good legacy character vs the bad legacy character", which is incredibly boring.

That's why I feel like some degree of that regressiveness would be inevitable if she was a Skywalker like Kylo, unless it was done very carefully. And even then I think her being "Luke's daughter" would far override her being Rey, which is why I personally think Rey Skywalker is a bad narrative choice.

Also, I don't really feel like Maz's speech to Rey is setting up a "discover and claim your inheritance and legacy" story. If anything, it seems to suggest the opposite.

@ZioRen to me, the speech from Maz isn't about marriage either, it's about her understanding that her parents are gone forever and the belonging she seeks is ahead. That doesn't have to mean marriage at all. Just companionship with the skywalkers

I personally did kind of see all that take the saber stuff to bring Luke home as her embracing her destiny and legacy which is to help bring the Skywalkers home with it. Never really saw it as marriage speech.

Gemini wrote:@ZioRen to me, the speech from Maz isn't about marriage either, it's about her understanding that her parents are gone forever and the belonging she seeks is ahead. That doesn't have to mean marriage at all. Just companionship with the skywalkers

I personally did kind of see all that take the saber stuff as her embracing her destiny and legacy which is to help the Skywalkers. Never really saw it as marriage.

@Gemini

Marriage? Who says it's about marriage? I feel like I missed something haha. I'm just saying Maz's speech suggests that who Rey's parents are doesn't really matter in the long run.

ZioRen wrote:

Gemini wrote:@ZioRen to me, the speech from Maz isn't about marriage either, it's about her understanding that her parents are gone forever and the belonging she seeks is ahead. That doesn't have to mean marriage at all. Just companionship with the skywalkers

I personally did kind of see all that take the saber stuff as her embracing her destiny and legacy which is to help the Skywalkers. Never really saw it as marriage.

@Gemini

Marriage? Who says it's about marriage? I feel like I missed something haha. I'm just saying Maz's speech suggests that who Rey's parents are don't really matter in the long run.

@ZioRen

Ah yeah I get what you are saying, apologies I must have misread as well

Gemini wrote:I actually disagree with the whole "her having to be related to someone is sexist" ideal when it comes to the Rey Skywalker argument. She's not a skywalker but the whole sexist thing just doesn't work for me in this argument.

The tradition that only male Heros can inherit from their anscestors and only female Heros can inherit by marriage needs to change and if Rey helps to break it, that's great. Be she random or related.

Because women all around the world, throughout time and in literature and even early Disney movies were kept out of inheritance of their ancestry. In the old Disney movies a random or an orphan woman's only claim to inheritance in these films was through marriage into another family or marriage to a prince. This is why I'm not a huge fan of the whole "reys soul purpose is to find an adoptive family and be married into that family" and "Rey will marry Ben the prince" idea. Just ain't feeling that.

More modern stories and Disney films allow female lead characters, orphans etc to inherit their birthright just as much as a male character does in a story.

It's actually backwards and regressive in my opinion to have reys inheritance in this story be the surname "Solo" and marriage to prince Ben. That's old fashioned storytelling when it comes to a female character. That's what they used to do in the 30s in Disney movies. Thankfully more modern female Heros have claim to birthright just as much as male heros.

Can't she just be herself? And if she happens to be related to someone of importance, allow her to claim that birthright as much as a male would.

Look at Jon snow, he is a bastard, an orphan and unsure of who his mother is and yet look at what has happened with his reveal? I don't see the internet crying sexism when it's a male underdog who finds out his link to his anscestors in traditional storytelling. When he inherits his birthright everyone screams and claps for joy!

People also think he is more deserving of it than Sansa, someone who by blood deserves that birthright more than Jon snow because she is Neds actual daughter but she is denied her birthright and the Internet tells her to go back with Tyrion and continue her marriage with him. "B**** should shut up and be happy with what she gets" It's regressive and the show is trying to put his forth.

What's regressive is that people use Luke and want to make rey Luke

@Gemini

I found this quote from Kasdan illuminating

Lawrence Kasdan: “[The young Han Solo movie] is so in line with the Star Wars saga, which is all about fathers and sons, mothers and sons, mother and daughters. It’s all about generational issues that you and I face every day. How much of what I inherited is good? How much of it is a burden to me? How do I define myself separate from those things? How do I latch on to the things that were great in my parents.” (December 17, 2015)


The point of being legacy is so that you overcome that legacy be it good or bad. It is a huge part of the hero's journey, without it something HUGE will be missing

Padme & Han are random and that is ok, but they are not the main hero/heroine of the story.

She's definitely somebody, but I have to admit that all of the Obi Wan Easter Eggs make me wonder if he's either an ancestor or if he's just the equivalent of a Fairy Godmother/Father (and the Fairy Godmother part makes me daydream that he'd show up in Ewan's gender bending Velvet Goldmine persona of Curt Wilde, which would be awesome). And speaking of marriage/fairy godmothers, I think a lot of this holds true for debates about her eventual outcome, especially if it means marriage to a prince:

Cinderella: Survivor

@Snufkin

Love is a part of any human journey even with  male main characters but the difference is that the love interest is not the soul purpose of the mans journey and this is what I feel is backwards and regressive with the female hero journey and marriage and a man being the key element, mission and destiny of a woman. That is something that does not happen with male main characters. A woman is not the defining factor of them, they have their own personally, their own mission.  They sieze the sword, inherit their birthright and claim the kingdom. All cinderella claims is a husband, that's her life goal, that's her prize. A man.

This kind of storytelling with female lead characters is dissapearing I think which im glad about.

Deleted.

Gemini wrote:@Snufkin

Love is a part of any human journey even with  male main characters but the difference is that the love interest is not the soul purpose of the mans journey and this is what I feel is backwards and regressive with the female hero journey and marriage and a man being the key element, mission and destiny of a woman. That is something that does not happen with male main characters. A woman is not the defining factor of them, they have their own personally, their own mission.  They sieze the sword, inherit their birthright and claim the kingdom. All cinderella claims is a husband, that's her life goal, that's her prize. A man.

This kind of storytelling with female lead characters is dissapearing I think which im glad about.

@Gemini

The heroine's journey is definitely not always about marriage and finding a man. It's really about the journey from girl to goddess. The main reason people associate that kind of romantic 'belonging' with Rey is because of the dynamic that's been established with her antagonist. In stories where the antagonist is an older woman, it's about the young heroine overcoming the jealous witch/sorceress/whatever figure. In TFA, Rey's antagonist is a young man in her age bracket who seems to quickly develop a villainous crush on her.

An example of the non-romantic type of heroine's journey in a modern sense would be The Hunger Games: Mockingjay. Katniss does have love interests, obviously, but they are not really the point of her journey. Coin is the true antagonist.

BastilaBey wrote:

Gemini wrote:@Snufkin

Love is a part of any human journey even with  male main characters but the difference is that the love interest is not the soul purpose of the mans journey and this is what I feel is backwards and regressive with the female hero journey and marriage and a man being the key element, mission and destiny of a woman. That is something that does not happen with male main characters. A woman is not the defining factor of them, they have their own personally, their own mission.  They sieze the sword, inherit their birthright and claim the kingdom. All cinderella claims is a husband, that's her life goal, that's her prize. A man.

This kind of storytelling with female lead characters is dissapearing I think which im glad about.

@Gemini

The heroine's journey is definitely not always about marriage and finding a man. It's really about the journey from girl to goddess. The main reason people associate that kind of romantic 'belonging' with Rey is because of the dynamic that's been established with her antagonist. In stories where the antagonist is an older woman, it's about the young heroine overcoming the jealous witch/sorceress/whatever figure. In TFA, Rey's antagonist is a young man in her age bracket who seems to quickly develop a villainous crush on her.

An example of the non-romantic type of heroine's journey in a modern sense would be The Hunger Games: Mockingjay. Katniss does have love interests, obviously, but they are not really the point of her journey. Coin is the true antagonist.

In more modern times this is true but in the 30s a female lead character's goal and claim to power in life was finding a man and marrying into that power. Not finding a power in themselves etc.

Which is why I personally find it slightly regressive if Reys soul purpose is marrying into the skywalker family and finding a man. With no links to greatness of her own except kylo.

I personally want to see more female characters who can claim inheritence to some ancient power and past and discover they are the blood of kings and queens etc. Before it was just exclusively for male characters.

Which is why I don't find it regressive if she ends up being a legacy like

Spoiler:

It's epic not regressive, no one cries sexism when a man discovers he's not a random orphan but in fact a King and related to a legend.


@BastilaBey

@gemini Whoa. People are saying her sole purpose is to marry Kylo?! Erm, yeah...that's not at all how I see it. Rey is clearly incredibly strong in the force, has her own backstory that we'll hear about, and will have an incredible journey of self discovery if the writers do her character justice. They can do that whether she's a legacy character or not, we just have to wait and see how it all unfolds.

It's not lots of people's opinion but I have seen it thrown out there a few times. I mean maybe I'm misreading it but when I see posts saying they want rey to be married to kylo ren, she takes his powers from his head, he's the one who gives her power. I just cant help but be reminded of regressive storytelling where a woman doesn't have her own claim to power, it's all through a man.

Gemini wrote:Which is why I personally find it slightly regressive if Reys soul purpose is marrying into the skywalker family and finding a man. With no links to greatness of her own except kylo.

@Gemini

It can be an amazing, empowering message to have someone come into their own greatness without any links to it, too.

Rey does not need Kylo Ren; it's the other way around at the moment. He is the damsel in distress of this trilogy. He comes from a high-profile background that played into his downfall when it led to him being targeted since birth by Snoke.

Love is how Anakin fell to the dark side. Love may very well be what brings Kylo back from it. Rey is a strong and independent character who doesn't "need" a man to be great - if she finds romance with a redeemed Ben Solo, they would be equals regardless of lineage.

Gemini wrote:It's not lots of people's opinion but I have seen it thrown out there a few times. I mean maybe I'm misreading it but when I see posts saying they want rey to be married to kylo ren, she takes his powers from his head, he's the one who gives her power. I just cant help but be reminded of regressive storytelling where a woman doesn't have her own claim to power, it's all through a man.

@Gemini

Here's the way I see it. While Rey not being legacy as in not being the offspring of either Luke or Leia tells me there's only one way this story can end. It tells me that the sexual chemistry between Rey and Ren was not imagined on my part. Kylo is the last Skywalker, and that line will continue.

It's so much more than that, though. As we can see, the family isn't doing so hot right now. Luke has abandoned the ones he loves, Leia has lost both Han and her son, and Ben is lost in the dark.

The family NEEDS Rey, and by only saving one of them, she can save them all. That's not sexist and it's not patriarchal. That's empowerment at its finest!

@WhatGirl That's Mary Sue though when that happens. Which
Isn't my fave type of story. Edit - misread your post lol sorry

IoJovi wrote:

Gemini wrote:It's not lots of people's opinion but I have seen it thrown out there a few times. I mean maybe I'm misreading it but when I see posts saying they want rey to be married to kylo ren, she takes his powers from his head, he's the one who gives her power. I just cant help but be reminded of regressive storytelling where a woman doesn't have her own claim to power, it's all through a man.

@Gemini

Here's the way I see it. While Rey not being legacy as in not being the offspring of either Luke or Leia tells me there's only one way this story can end. It tells me that the sexual chemistry between Rey and Ren was not imagined on my part. Kylo is the last Skywalker, and that line will continue.

It's so much more than that, though. As we can see, the family isn't doing so hot right now. Luke has abandoned the ones he loves, Leia has lost both Han and her son, and Ben is lost in the dark.

The family NEEDS Rey, and by only saving one of them, she can save them all. That's not sexist and it's not patriarchal. That's empowerment at its finest!

@IoJovi
I agree I have no issue with Rey being the one who gets them back on the quest and brings them home, that is her destiny. That's what's been set up. She's entwined with the skywalkers if she likes it or not lol. But she also needs to have more of a mission than that, just my opinion

It's almost forced upon her by that vision.