Why are Some Fans So Fixated on Rey Skywalker?

I’ll have to respectfully disagree with the statement that “Disney princesses marrying a prince to become princesses is regressive”, even though I can see where it comes from. (Warning: my inner Disney kid is coming out, I'm sorry XD)

I’ve always been annoyed by the fact that princesses like Cinderella, or Ariel, or Belle aren’t considered “good role models” by some for the reason that, you know, they wear skirts, they’re feminine, they fall in love and eventually marry a prince. I remember an article praising Zootopia, which is indeed a very good film, but said article was talking about how Judy Hopps was FINALLY the first good role model for little girls in an animated Disney film.

I was a bit pissed, obviously.

Because basically, I feel like in order to be considered a Strong Female CharacterTM, you have to be, well… more masculine. Now, don’t get me wrong, it’s 100% okay and necessary to have female characters who kick a**, or who take roles usually given to males, or who don’t give a s*** about guys, or all of the above, and so on and so forth, like Judy, or Mulan, or Merida. But they shouldn’t be the only valid representation, ever.

I’m going to break down some points for a few Disney Princesses.

Cinderella has been discussed above, but I’ll sum it up. So Cinderella is not amazing because she marries a prince and eventually becomes a princess. The latter is important, but that’s more the outcome. It’s touched upon in the animated film, but I do love how it became the center of the 2015 film with Lily James: what makes Ella’s strength is that whatever happens to her, whatever trauma she goes through, whatever abuse she faces, she never becomes embittered by it. She has every reason to, yet, she doesn’t. Her motto ever since she’s a kid is “Have courage and be kind” and she stayed true to it until the end. And on the other side, you have Lady Tremaine, who’s heavily hinted to have been like Ella in her youth but became embittered and mean. What happens in the end? The prince marries Ella, even though she’s a nobody, but both of them marry for love. And for the first time, Ella, after being orphaned and enslaved by her stepmother and stepsisters, has a say in her story, and she chooses to become queen and live with the man she loves. So overall, what makes Ella amazing is her inner strength. Not that she becomes queen.

Ariel… well, you could say Ariel becomes human because she wants to see her prince again. But when I re-watched The Little Mermaid a while ago for the Reylo Fanfiction Anthology on Tumblr (yes, because I’m doing a Little Mermaid/Reylo AU, no self-promotion here XD), I realized that Eric definitely wasn’t the only reason. Rather, he was the catalyst, along with Triton destroying Ariel’s collection, for her to dare go and see Ursula to get a pair of legs and walk around on earth, because she wanted to discover the world and go away from her overprotective father way before that. Same for the ending, when she faces Ursula: she doesn’t want to go after her just because Eric is in danger, it’s also because her father, her sisters and all the other merfolk she knew were threatened as well (And now I want to do an angry rant about why Ariel should have ultimately defeated Ursula and not Eric, and why Disney did it, and talk about Disney Renaissance and how The Little Mermaid was actually considered progressive and stuff, but that would be waaaay too long and out of topic). So overall, what makes Ariel amazing is that she dreams to be free, eventually finds it, but also discovers that it has a price. Ultimately, she finds balance, which permits to reconcile with her father and get the fate she wants, and she marries the man she loves while her father accepts her choice.

And you got Belle, who got compared to Rey I don’t know how many times, and for good reason. She is similar to Ariel in the sense that she wants to see the world, get out of her tiny village, but she also cares very much about her father. She’s also considered a bit of an outcast by the villagers for being a dreamer and not being afraid of “looking smart”, if I can express myself that way. You’ve got Gaston (the ultimate misogynist, obviously) who wants Belle because she’s the prettiest girl in the village and therefore, he deserves her, who also makes negative remarks about her reading all the time. Belle’s father is also considered weird for being an inventor, and even though she is ready to defend him at all times, it does affect the perception other people have of her.

I’ve talked about this with a fellow Reylo fan, and we’ve noticed that one of the reasons that Belle and the Beast come to understand each other is that they’re both outcasts because they’re different from the mass, each in their own way, and that it makes them not so different from each other. And I believe that’s one of the reasons also why Rey will eventually develop compassion for Kylo.

What makes Belle amazing in the end is that she fully assumes she’s different. She doesn’t give a flying crap about what other people will think of her, especially if that means defending her loved ones, whether it’s her father or the Beast. She also never lets anyone intimidate her, and is never afraid to call out anyone. She also accepts the Beast as he is, even with his monstrous appearance, and that doesn’t stop her from falling in love with him, and that because of who he is, and even if it means she’ll be even more of an outcast for the rest of her life. And what happens? She’s the catalyst for the Beast to redeem himself, and she breaks the curse, having him re-become a handsome prince and free all the other castle occupants from the curse as well, and of course, she marries him. So again, Belle is not amazing because she marries a prince and becomes a princess, she’s amazing because she’s compassionate, openly intelligent and independent-minded all at the same time, and that’s what eventually saves everyone.

Elsa? Sure, she becomes queen, and that’s amazing. But that’s definitely not what makes her awesome. What makes her awesome is that she’s ultimately able to overcome her fears because of her powers thanks to Anna’s help (WELL DOESN’T THAT SOUND FAMILIAR HUH?), and finally be there for her sister after staying away from her for years.

Same goes for Rey. She won’t be amazing because she’s going to marry Prince Legacy Character. She’s going to be amazing because Rey is Rey, just like Belle is amazing for being Belle, or just like Elsa is amazing for being Elsa, and so on and so forth.

@Irina de France That's the entire point of it, isn't it!  It isn't for Rey to carry on the Skywalker legacy as a baby-making vessel.   It's about Rey making her own CHOICE of who she wants to be with.  She's not ending up with the hero/good guy because he's the one who deserves her.  

Rey is making her own choice and accepting the one she ultimately falls in love with - flaws and all.  It not only becomes a story of Ben's redemption, but Rey's empowement through making her own decisions.  What's not to love about that?

To me, it's the ultimate fairytale.

I honestly don't know what the deal is with wanting role models for kids in fictional stories. I was a little girl once upon a time and I absolutely LOVED all the disney princesses regardless of how and who they fell in love with or how they became princesses. I never went looking for role models in fantasy stories and I didn't need them and kids certainly don't care. In my opinion, role models should exist in real life and not fantasy stories and unfortunately role models for girls and women in today's society are sadly lacking...and that's not the fault of fictional characters

Mana wrote:I honestly don't know what the deal in with wanting role models for kids in fictional stories. I was a little girl once upon a time and I absolutely LOVED all the disney princesses regardless of how and who they fell in love with or how they became princesses. I never went looking for role models in fantasy stories and I didn't need them and kids certainly don't care. In my opinion, role models should exist in real life and not fantasy stories and unfortunately role models for girls and women in today's society are sadly lacking.

@Mana

I always thought a role model should be someone like a parent, or a teacher, or a coach, or someone who has something to do with your future job or whatever. Fictional characters... as much as I love fictional characters, I just don't see them as role models. I do deeply believe stories can mold you, but they don't represent a way of life either.

Irina de France wrote:

Mana wrote:I honestly don't know what the deal in with wanting role models for kids in fictional stories. I was a little girl once upon a time and I absolutely LOVED all the disney princesses regardless of how and who they fell in love with or how they became princesses. I never went looking for role models in fantasy stories and I didn't need them and kids certainly don't care. In my opinion, role models should exist in real life and not fantasy stories and unfortunately role models for girls and women in today's society are sadly lacking.

@Mana

I always thought a role model should be someone like a parent, or a teacher, or a coach, or someone who has something to do with your future job or whatever. Fictional characters... as much as I love fictional characters, I just don't see them as role models. I do deeply believe stories can mold you, but they don't represent a way of life either.

@Irina de France

I think Rey will be a well-loved character regardless of who she falls in love with. Girls will still want to be like her and dress up like her. Little girls don't care about shipping wars.

Irina de France wrote:I’ve always been annoyed by the fact that princesses like Cinderella, or Ariel, or Belle aren’t considered “good role models” by some for the reason that, you know, they wear skirts, they’re feminine, they fall in love and eventually marry a prince. I remember an article praising Zootopia, which is indeed a very good film, but said article was talking about how Judy Hopps was FINALLY the first good role model for little girls in an animated Disney film.

I was a bit pissed, obviously.

Because basically, I feel like in order to be considered a Strong Female CharacterTM, you have to be, well… more masculine. Now, don’t get me wrong, it’s 100% okay and necessary to have female characters who kick a**, or who take roles usually given to males, or who don’t give a s*** about guys, or all of the above, and so on and so forth, like Judy, or Mulan, or Merida. But they shouldn’t be the only valid representation, ever.

@Irina de France

Couldn't agree more. It's one thing to praise the fact that an animated Disney movie can have a heroine who is not interested in traditionally feminine things, but it's another to talk about it like it's One True Way for a female role model to be.

Oh and I looooved the 2015 Cinderella and its take on what inner strength means.

It's not about being feminine. There's nothing wrong with being pretty and feminine. They are not weak qualities.

It' becomes regressive and backwards when a story is about their journey revolving completely around a man accepting them and wanting to marry them. Nothing else. Men have never been subjected to that in many stories.

Ariel even loses her voice for majority of the film, just be pretty and land a man vibe. He doesn't have to hear you talk.

I understand fully why many people see that kind of story as regressive for women. That's why stories aren't really like that anymore when it's based around a woman, Disney are even changing it themselves because it is incredibly  misogynistic and old fashioned  to only allow women to have 1 goal in their life (a man) make him happy that's all that matters. Sure they might marry someone in modern stories  but they also have their own mission. I sincerely hope that it's the latter type of story for Rey and not everything revolves around landing a man.

Gemini wrote:It's not about being feminine. There's nothing wrong with being pretty and feminine. They are not weak qualities.

It' becomes regressive and backwards when a story is about their journey revolving completely around a man accepting them and wanting to marry them. Nothing else. Men have never been subjected to that in many stories.

Ariel even loses her voice for majority of the film, just be pretty and land a man vibe. He doesn't have to hear you talk.

I understand fully why many people see that kind of story as regressive for women. That's why stories aren't really like that anymore when it's based around a woman, Disney are even changing it themselves because it is incredibly  misogynistic and old fashioned  to only allow women to have 1 goal in their life (a man) make him happy that's all that matters. Sure they might marry someone in modern stories  but they also have their own mission. I sincerely hope that it's the latter type of story for Rey and not everything revolves around landing a man.

@Gemini
Wait, is the bolded actually a concern? I would have figured it was pretty obvious that someone like Rian Johnson wouldn't be telling that kind of story. If you haven't checked out some of his other films you should. He writes about redemptions and sacrifice (and his female characters aren't in it just to land a man). Honestly, that just isn't how stories are told these days. Though I have to be entirely honest, as a woman I never had any issue with the way females were portrayed in older Disney films. It went with the times. Nothing offensive about it. But the times have changed, and that means stories have changed too. Narratives are enormous reflections of culture and generational upbringing. They are products of their time. Just as the OT was a product of the 70's and 80's, the ST is a product of the 2010's.

Female protagonist from Looper trying to shoot the main character for trespassing. xD

Instil see it happen in many stories fizz.

Gemini wrote:Instil see it happen in many stories fizz.

@Gemini

It is not about a woman being able to commit an act of violence like a man, that is not even something that I would call progressive. The question can a woman inherit the legacy of her family, carry the mantle, in a saga film.
...

The hero’s Journey is essentially psychological not POLITICAL, The purpose OF the hero’s journey is to redefine yourself, find the true self, but the hero needs a past to change, one that is embodied by the mother/father or parents....

The father figure, in some ways, represents all fathers, with whom many sons have an ambiguous relationship, both seeking approval and yet also competing for status with them.
The father represents power, and particularly ultimate power over the hero. If this power can be taken, then the hero becomes seemingly omnipotent.
In beating the father figure, the hero takes the head of the table and thus becomes the father. In gaining the approval of the father, the hero is permitted to a higher plane.
Girls also have an awkward relationship with their father, both competing for attention against their mother and yet knowing the taboo of incest.


 The people that want Rey Random for feminist reasons have no problem casting her in the role of love interest that redeems Ren
She is then reduced to the Goddess & Temptress as sexual object. Her essential function then becomes to restore the Skywalker legacy to Men/Man Luke/Kylo.  Why don't we flip the script, and let Kylo be the object of desire that returns Rey to her legacy whatever that is.

Where is Rey’s dark night of the soul in this scenario to either confront that her father was a jerk and abandoned her or to weak to save or, or her parents were murdered for which she must seek vengeance and justice. With no parents Rey Tablu rassa fabulosa mary sue, is just here to fix Ren, she has no story of her own.


"Unfortunately, the same concerns are present in Campbell’s academic study of classical stories. Most of the historical myths he studied arose in profoundly sexist eras of human history. Women were property of their fathers or husbands; they were prizes to be won, or spoils of war to be seized and raped. They often held little role in society other than to bear and raise children, and only rarely did they wield political, military, or religious power. And the stories these societies produced usually portrayed women in similar ways, reflecting how the storytellers and their audiences viewed social relations in their time. Female characters were wives and mothers, seductresses and villains, lovers and conquests – but rarely the celebrated victors".

I am Reylo ASF, but ultimately that can't be the total hero's journey for Rey in this Saga. I would like Rey to have a mantle/legacy/burden of her own to carry and either live up to it or live it down.... This is where the Hero's journey is won and it becomes more than a fairy tale/romance.

Finding love in another individual is an essential part of the hero’s journey but so is overcoming your parents and your past. Nobody is nobody even nobodies are somebodies in some form or fashion. Having ancestors gives you something to identify and attach to and something to overcome and reject

You come to accept and reject what you want to create something new this is what every generation does

spacebaby45678 wrote:The people that want Rey Random for feminist reasons have no problem casting her in the role of love interest that redeems Ren
She is then reduced to the Goddess & Temptress as sexual object. Her essential function then becomes to restore the Skywalker legacy to Men/Man Luke/Kylo.  Why don't we flip the script, and let Kylo be the object of desire that returns Rey to her legacy whatever that is.

Where is Rey’s dark night of the soul in this scenario to either confront that her father was a jerk and abandoned her or to weak to save or, or her parents were murdered for which she must seek vengeance and justice. With no parents Rey Tablu rassa fabulosa mary sue, is just here to fix Ren, she has no story of her own.


"Unfortunately, the same concerns are present in Campbell’s academic study of classical stories. Most of the historical myths he studied arose in profoundly sexist eras of human history. Women were property of their fathers or husbands; they were prizes to be won, or spoils of war to be seized and raped. They often held little role in society other than to bear and raise children, and only rarely did they wield political, military, or religious power. And the stories these societies produced usually portrayed women in similar ways, reflecting how the storytellers and their audiences viewed social relations in their time. Female characters were wives and mothers, seductresses and villains, lovers and conquests – but rarely the celebrated victors".

I am Reylo ASF, but ultimately that can't be the total hero's journey for Rey in this Saga. I would like Rey to have a mantle/legacy/burden of her own to carry and either live up to it or live it down.... This is where the Hero's journey is won and it becomes more than a fairy tale/romance.

Finding love in another individual is an essential part of the hero’s journey but so is overcoming your parents and your past. Nobody is nobody even nobodies are somebodies in some form or fashion. Having ancestors gives you something to identify and attach to and something to overcome and reject

You come to accept and reject what you want to create something new this is what every generation does

@spacebaby45678

I agree with a lot of this. I love the potential of the Kylo/Rey storyline, but there are drawbacks to the scenario where Rey is the main protagonist in a series about a family she doesn't come from herself. If you compare it with The Beauty and The Beast, Belle herself doesn't have a big character arc and her story is intertwined with the Beast, but it's a stand-alone story with no weight of a long family saga behind it. All that Skywalker legacy is like a lead ball on a rubber sheet, it can't help but distort and be the centre. Also, Belle has an entire song devoted to expressing what she wants from life, whereas Rey's only expressed desire in TFA is a dead end and beyond that I've no idea what she wants. If I was to be cynical, I'd guess that if they plan for her to be the saviour of the Skywalkers, then she can't really have strong ambitions that might get in the way of that; after all fixing the Skywalkers is something that Rey is likely to end up doing, rather than something she actively decides to do.

The only truly independent thread she has so far is the mystery of her parents, so hopefully there's a real story there (which is IMO achievable with either Rey the Legacy Girl or Rey Random).

Saracene wrote:

spacebaby45678 wrote:The people that want Rey Random for feminist reasons have no problem casting her in the role of love interest that redeems Ren
She is then reduced to the Goddess & Temptress as sexual object. Her essential function then becomes to restore the Skywalker legacy to Men/Man Luke/Kylo.  Why don't we flip the script, and let Kylo be the object of desire that returns Rey to her legacy whatever that is.

Where is Rey’s dark night of the soul in this scenario to either confront that her father was a jerk and abandoned her or to weak to save or, or her parents were murdered for which she must seek vengeance and justice. With no parents Rey Tablu rassa fabulosa mary sue, is just here to fix Ren, she has no story of her own.


"Unfortunately, the same concerns are present in Campbell’s academic study of classical stories. Most of the historical myths he studied arose in profoundly sexist eras of human history. Women were property of their fathers or husbands; they were prizes to be won, or spoils of war to be seized and raped. They often held little role in society other than to bear and raise children, and only rarely did they wield political, military, or religious power. And the stories these societies produced usually portrayed women in similar ways, reflecting how the storytellers and their audiences viewed social relations in their time. Female characters were wives and mothers, seductresses and villains, lovers and conquests – but rarely the celebrated victors".

I am Reylo ASF, but ultimately that can't be the total hero's journey for Rey in this Saga. I would like Rey to have a mantle/legacy/burden of her own to carry and either live up to it or live it down.... This is where the Hero's journey is won and it becomes more than a fairy tale/romance.

Finding love in another individual is an essential part of the hero’s journey but so is overcoming your parents and your past. Nobody is nobody even nobodies are somebodies in some form or fashion. Having ancestors gives you something to identify and attach to and something to overcome and reject

You come to accept and reject what you want to create something new this is what every generation does

@spacebaby45678

I agree with a lot of this. I love the potential of the Kylo/Rey storyline, but there are drawbacks to the scenario where Rey is the main protagonist in a series about a family she doesn't come from herself. If you compare it with The Beauty and The Beast, Belle herself doesn't have a big character arc and her story is intertwined with the Beast, but it's a stand-alone story with no weight of a long family saga behind it. All that Skywalker legacy is like a lead ball on a rubber sheet, it can't help but distort and be the centre. Also, Belle has an entire song devoted to expressing what she wants from life, whereas Rey's only expressed desire in TFA is a dead end and beyond that I've no idea what she wants. If I was to be cynical, I'd guess that if they plan for her to be the saviour of the Skywalkers, then she can't really have strong ambitions that might get in the way of that; after all fixing the Skywalkers is something that Rey is likely to end up doing, rather than something she actively decides to do.

The only truly independent thread she has so far is the mystery of her parents, so hopefully there's a real story there (which is IMO achievable with either Rey the Legacy Girl or Rey Random).

@Saracene
I really hope Rey's sole role isn't to be the saviour of the Skywalker family.I mean if that's part of her journey and it's a decision she makes instead of being forced to do it it would be great but it won't be completly satisfactory to me.I know that  alot of people don't care who Rey and that's completly fine but for me personally I want to know more of her backstory before and after she ended up on Jakku as well as who her family was.There are a lot of interesting possibilties to explore that and in the end of the day Rey's family is part of who she is and why she spend so much of her life on Jakku.When Lor San Tekka tells Kylo that however he may try he can't deny who his family is we get the sense that this is something he has to learn to deal with during the rest of the trilog and eventually accept it and I would want the same to happen with Rey it t would actually be good for her development if she deals with what Kylo's been trying to deny othewrise she might end like him.

spacebaby45678 wrote:
I am Reylo ASF, but ultimately that can't be the total hero's journey for Rey in this Saga. I would like Rey to have a mantle/legacy/burden of her own to carry and either live up to it or live it down.... This is where the Hero's journey is won and it becomes more than a fairy tale/romance.

Finding love in another individual is an essential part of the hero’s journey but so is overcoming your parents and your past. Nobody is nobody even nobodies are somebodies in some form or fashion. Having ancestors gives you something to identify and attach to and something to overcome and reject

You come to accept and reject what you want to create something new this is what every generation does

@spacebaby45678

Most certainly. But that's why I don't want Rey to be a random - I want her to be something mindblowing, something that's at least equal in galactic significance to the Skywalker heritage.

I'd like her to be something that's at the very heart of the story that is currently being told. I'd like her story to be mainly about her, not about the Skywalkers. This time, the Skywalkers would be players - active, major players, but still - in a story that's centered on someone else, someone else's heritage and place in the world.

Likewise, I actually hate the idea of Rey's challenge and "temptation" being all about Kylo. I dislike the idea that equates the temptations of the Dark Side with love and sexuality, because that's just... ugh. I would love it if Rey's biggest challenges were about her unique place in the world - where she came from, how she ended up where she is, where she chooses to go from there. Because that was set up in TFA: for the past fifteen years or so, Rey's daily preoccupation and sole desire had been the return of her family. There's no way that story is over yet.

Darth Dingbat wrote:

spacebaby45678 wrote:
I am Reylo ASF, but ultimately that can't be the total hero's journey for Rey in this Saga. I would like Rey to have a mantle/legacy/burden of her own to carry and either live up to it or live it down.... This is where the Hero's journey is won and it becomes more than a fairy tale/romance.

Finding love in another individual is an essential part of the hero’s journey but so is overcoming your parents and your past. Nobody is nobody even nobodies are somebodies in some form or fashion. Having ancestors gives you something to identify and attach to and something to overcome and reject

You come to accept and reject what you want to create something new this is what every generation does

@spacebaby45678

Most certainly. But that's why I don't want Rey to be a random - I want her to be something mindblowing, something that's at least equal in galactic significance to the Skywalker heritage.

I'd like her to be something that's at the very heart of the story that is currently being told. I'd like her story to be mainly about her, not about the Skywalkers. This time, the Skywalkers would be players - active, major players, but still - in a story that's centered on someone else, someone else's heritage and place in the world.

Likewise, I actually hate the idea of Rey's challenge and "temptation" being all about Kylo. I dislike the idea that equates the temptations of the Dark Side with love and sexuality, because that's just... ugh. I would love it if Rey's biggest challenges were about her unique place in the world - where she came from, how she ended up where she is, where she chooses to go from there. Because that was set up in TFA: for the past fifteen years or so, Rey's daily preoccupation and sole desire had been the return of her family. There's no way that story is over yet.

@Darth Dingbat

I agree with you especially the bolded.Even if the Skywalkers become Rey's family she's still spend so many years waiting and wishing for her family to return and that's not something that would  ever truly dissapear.Her bilogical family will aways be part of her preciciely because she spend half of her life on Jakku so will all of the hardhsips she went through there.What she can do hwoever is leanr more about these people so she can have some sense of peace which for example Leia never did because she refused to accpet her Skywalker heritage or her bilogical father.

Just to add - stories can be told in so many ways, with different kinds of emphasis. If the PT had been centered on Padmé, for instance - the story of a young Queen who is ultimately defeated, though she heroically believes in her ideals till the very end - the theme of it would have been "So this is how liberty dies... with thunderous applause", not "help, my boyfriend is losing it". Anakin would still have played a huge role in the story, of course, but the slant would have more about even her husband betraying her and her ideals. And her end wouldn't have been "tragic beauty loses her will to live after being disappointed in love", but "tragic hero dies defending the democratic ideals she believes in".

She would still have been the mother of the Skywalkers, but the story would have been hers, and the love story with its ultimate betrayal would have been significant in her heroic arc.

Rey can and should be that. Kylo is her love interest, not vice versa, therefore Kylo should play a role in advancing her story, both thematically and plot-wise.

Darth Dingbat wrote:

spacebaby45678 wrote:
I am Reylo ASF, but ultimately that can't be the total hero's journey for Rey in this Saga. I would like Rey to have a mantle/legacy/burden of her own to carry and either live up to it or live it down.... This is where the Hero's journey is won and it becomes more than a fairy tale/romance.

Finding love in another individual is an essential part of the hero’s journey but so is overcoming your parents and your past. Nobody is nobody even nobodies are somebodies in some form or fashion. Having ancestors gives you something to identify and attach to and something to overcome and reject

You come to accept and reject what you want to create something new this is what every generation does

@spacebaby45678

Most certainly. But that's why I don't want Rey to be a random - I want her to be something mindblowing, something that's at least equal in galactic significance to the Skywalker heritage.

I'd like her to be something that's at the very heart of the story that is currently being told. I'd like her story to be mainly about her, not about the Skywalkers. This time, the Skywalkers would be players - active, major players, but still - in a story that's centered on someone else, someone else's heritage and place in the world.

Likewise, I actually hate the idea of Rey's challenge and "temptation" being all about Kylo. I dislike the idea that equates the temptations of the Dark Side with love and sexuality, because that's just... ugh. I would love it if Rey's biggest challenges were about her unique place in the world - where she came from, how she ended up where she is, where she chooses to go from there. Because that was set up in TFA: for the past fifteen years or so, Rey's daily preoccupation and sole desire had been the return of her family. There's no way that story is over yet.

@Darth Dingbat


"I'd like her to be something that's at the very heart of the story that is currently being told"

That brings us full circle to WHY fans are fixated on Reywalker, because the current story being told is a The Skywalker saga...In the saga there is no other plot or grand story being told this it it... You can't not switch it up and make it about something else.

Darth Dingbat wrote:Just to add - stories can be told in so many ways, with different kinds of emphasis. If the PT had been centered on Padmé, for instance - the story of a young Queen who is ultimately defeated, though she heroically believes in her ideals till the very end - the theme of it would have been "So this is how liberty dies... with thunderous applause", not "help, my boyfriend is losing it". Anakin would still have played a huge role in the story, of course, but the slant would have more about even her husband betraying her and her ideals. And her end wouldn't have been "tragic beauty loses her will to live after being disappointed in love", but "tragic hero dies defending the democratic ideals she believes in".

She would still have been the mother of the Skywalkers, but the story would have been hers, and the love story with its ultimate betrayal would have been significant in her heroic arc.

Rey can and should be that. Kylo is her love interest, not vice versa, therefore Kylo should play a role in advancing her story, both thematically and plot-wise.

@Darth Dingbat

You know I actually want neither Rey or Kylo to be each other's love interets but instead to both be important and central characters to the overall story who end up having a relationship between equals.I've really grown to dislike the term love interest because Hollywood has this tendency to create a character(usually a female in blockbuster movies) whose only purpose is to be the love interest without any characteristics that define him as a person.The SW saga has also fallen in this trap.They did so with Padme  and Leia could have become a victim of that as well if the wirting and directing for the OT dadn't prevent that so I would love to see something different this time.

spacebaby45678 wrote:

Darth Dingbat wrote:

spacebaby45678 wrote:
I am Reylo ASF, but ultimately that can't be the total hero's journey for Rey in this Saga. I would like Rey to have a mantle/legacy/burden of her own to carry and either live up to it or live it down.... This is where the Hero's journey is won and it becomes more than a fairy tale/romance.

Finding love in another individual is an essential part of the hero’s journey but so is overcoming your parents and your past. Nobody is nobody even nobodies are somebodies in some form or fashion. Having ancestors gives you something to identify and attach to and something to overcome and reject

You come to accept and reject what you want to create something new this is what every generation does

@spacebaby45678

Most certainly. But that's why I don't want Rey to be a random - I want her to be something mindblowing, something that's at least equal in galactic significance to the Skywalker heritage.

I'd like her to be something that's at the very heart of the story that is currently being told. I'd like her story to be mainly about her, not about the Skywalkers. This time, the Skywalkers would be players - active, major players, but still - in a story that's centered on someone else, someone else's heritage and place in the world.

Likewise, I actually hate the idea of Rey's challenge and "temptation" being all about Kylo. I dislike the idea that equates the temptations of the Dark Side with love and sexuality, because that's just... ugh. I would love it if Rey's biggest challenges were about her unique place in the world - where she came from, how she ended up where she is, where she chooses to go from there. Because that was set up in TFA: for the past fifteen years or so, Rey's daily preoccupation and sole desire had been the return of her family. There's no way that story is over yet.

@Darth Dingbat


"I'd like her to be something that's at the very heart of the story that is currently being told"

That brings us full circle to WHY fans are fixated on Reywalker, because the current story being told is a The Skywalker saga...In the saga there is no other plot or grand story being told this it it... You can't not switch it up and make it about something else.

@spacebaby45678

Well, by "the current story" I actually meant the story of the ST. Whatever it turns out to be, because at this point the whole thing is very obscure (Snoke, the FO, etc. haven't even been properly explained).

Truth be told, we don't know how much they've switched things up. It's possible that this new trilogy doesn't "rhyme" as much as fans expect it to.

But going back to my Padmé comparison... she would still have been the mother of the Skywalkers, even if she'd been the hero of her own story.

Saracene wrote:

spacebaby45678 wrote:The people that want Rey Random for feminist reasons have no problem casting her in the role of love interest that redeems Ren
She is then reduced to the Goddess & Temptress as sexual object. Her essential function then becomes to restore the Skywalker legacy to Men/Man Luke/Kylo.  Why don't we flip the script, and let Kylo be the object of desire that returns Rey to her legacy whatever that is.

Where is Rey’s dark night of the soul in this scenario to either confront that her father was a jerk and abandoned her or to weak to save or, or her parents were murdered for which she must seek vengeance and justice. With no parents Rey Tablu rassa fabulosa mary sue, is just here to fix Ren, she has no story of her own.


"Unfortunately, the same concerns are present in Campbell’s academic study of classical stories. Most of the historical myths he studied arose in profoundly sexist eras of human history. Women were property of their fathers or husbands; they were prizes to be won, or spoils of war to be seized and raped. They often held little role in society other than to bear and raise children, and only rarely did they wield political, military, or religious power. And the stories these societies produced usually portrayed women in similar ways, reflecting how the storytellers and their audiences viewed social relations in their time. Female characters were wives and mothers, seductresses and villains, lovers and conquests – but rarely the celebrated victors".

I am Reylo ASF, but ultimately that can't be the total hero's journey for Rey in this Saga. I would like Rey to have a mantle/legacy/burden of her own to carry and either live up to it or live it down.... This is where the Hero's journey is won and it becomes more than a fairy tale/romance.

Finding love in another individual is an essential part of the hero’s journey but so is overcoming your parents and your past. Nobody is nobody even nobodies are somebodies in some form or fashion. Having ancestors gives you something to identify and attach to and something to overcome and reject

You come to accept and reject what you want to create something new this is what every generation does

@spacebaby45678

I agree with a lot of this. I love the potential of the Kylo/Rey storyline, but there are drawbacks to the scenario where Rey is the main protagonist in a series about a family she doesn't come from herself. If you compare it with The Beauty and The Beast, Belle herself doesn't have a big character arc and her story is intertwined with the Beast, but it's a stand-alone story with no weight of a long family saga behind it. All that Skywalker legacy is like a lead ball on a rubber sheet, it can't help but distort and be the centre. Also, Belle has an entire song devoted to expressing what she wants from life, whereas Rey's only expressed desire in TFA is a dead end and beyond that I've no idea what she wants. If I was to be cynical, I'd guess that if they plan for her to be the saviour of the Skywalkers, then she can't really have strong ambitions that might get in the way of that; after all fixing the Skywalkers is something that Rey is likely to end up doing, rather than something she actively decides to do.

The only truly independent thread she has so far is the mystery of her parents, so hopefully there's a real story there (which is IMO achievable with either Rey the Legacy Girl or Rey Random).

@Saracene

I have to agree with this, too. Something in me wants to resist agreeing, but it makes a lot of sense. I suppose it is hard for me to swallow some of this because it's leading me straight to Rey Skywalker right now. If Rey is going to have a big important legacy and be the main protagonist, why would she be anything less than a Skwalker? Seems underwhelming to be anything less, especially since the antagonist has already been revealed as the son of Han and Leia. It's hard to top that. Skywalker even barely tops that. Palpatine seems strange to me idk I guess somehow it could work. Kenobi legacy is still kind of all about fixing the Skywalkers...so what's the difference? Yeah it's poetic and beautiful, but why save that up as a big reveal after you've already revealed Kylo's big lineage? If she started the movie as a revealed kenobi i feel like it would make more sense to me.  And why not make her a Skywalker who fixes the Skywalkers? But since I've ruled out Skywalker for various reasons we have all already discussed at length, and I worry anything else is underwhelming...what could her story possibly be? I suppose that really is the big secret. The big question. As much as it frustrates and worries me.

Though...maybe it is less about who her parents are and more about what she does about it? I think that is the spirit of Rey Random...for me. It's not that she is a nobody, but that she just isn't related to someone we already know in any story yet. And her parents are not necessarily more important than she is? But somehow...what she does and feels about her parents...how it changes and affects her....that is what is important. Or maybe her parents are from an important history or line, just that their individual identities aren't as important. Her currently unknown legacy could be really epic and important still. Maybe that is why Colin Trevrrow said that thing...that her lineage would still feel like it was a story from a galaxy far far away. Or whatever he said. Because if it isn't a Skywalker legacy and anything less than that just doesn't sound epic, then wouldn't we worry that her story won't be epic enough? His comment sounded reassuring...to me. The film makers better have some sort of trick up their sleeves I can't see yet. I've just been focusing on how epic reylo is because I can't figure how Rey's story on her own is going to be epic. But it really needs to be. But what? I suppose there are legacy options that could still be epic, but why not make her a Skywalker? Lol I'm such a pessimist right now. Sorry. I am sure I'll find happiness in whatever the film makers turn out. And my limited imagination and skeptical/pessimistic attitude probably keeps me from seeing how any of the legacy options could work out.

At this point, Jakku is my hope. Jakku is the question. And Jakku is the answer. It's really the only clue we have when it comes to Rey's past. There is a convergence in Jakku, a history, and a darkness. And Rey is tied up in it. And honestly, the whole plot and dark side and everything better be tied up in it, too. Or something. Maybe she will go back there. She probably will? Episode IX? (Will she go back with Kylo because that would be cute...lol okay sorry I had to). Honestly, they keep saying this next movie is going to be weird and I can't see how it won't be weird. Whatever Rey's past is...this better be weird and new and dark and epic or something. A real game changer. Unless we don't find out until IX, then episode VIII will be really weird for other reasons i guess...mainly because we still won't know who the heck she is. But whatever her past is, it better give her some real stake in the battle that is going on. (Even Skywalker doesn't do that very effectively somehow in my opinion.) Some tie to the darkness even? But it can't be a Luke having an evil father "nooooo" rehash. Okay maybe it could. But still, Something that really gives her a reason to fight and be involved in the bigger mess. At least Luke had his aunt and uncle killed by the empire when he started out. His father was a Jedi and also Vader. Really, idk still why Rey or Finn decided to change their minds and fight. Finn at least has a better personal reason and history with the first order, but Rey? Right now, since I'm not gonna jump on the Skywalker bandwagon, all I've really got (from the movie) is the Jakku mystery box.

Okay and maybe her past is somehow connected to the first Jedi temple and the first Jedi or something really ancient like that. And it was fate that she ended up there on the island. And she doesn't dream of the island because Luke is there, but because it is her home...the home of her ancestors or something. That would be epic. And it's probably related to Jakku anyway. Somehow. Lol I'm obsessed with Jakku.

Sorry guys I just did a stream-of-consciousness brain dump. Don't mind me.

Edit-and while I was writing this you guys said a lot of this already and it's a great discussion so I'm just gonna go through and like everything. Lol

CienaRee wrote:

Darth Dingbat wrote:Just to add - stories can be told in so many ways, with different kinds of emphasis. If the PT had been centered on Padmé, for instance - the story of a young Queen who is ultimately defeated, though she heroically believes in her ideals till the very end - the theme of it would have been "So this is how liberty dies... with thunderous applause", not "help, my boyfriend is losing it". Anakin would still have played a huge role in the story, of course, but the slant would have more about even her husband betraying her and her ideals. And her end wouldn't have been "tragic beauty loses her will to live after being disappointed in love", but "tragic hero dies defending the democratic ideals she believes in".

She would still have been the mother of the Skywalkers, but the story would have been hers, and the love story with its ultimate betrayal would have been significant in her heroic arc.

Rey can and should be that. Kylo is her love interest, not vice versa, therefore Kylo should play a role in advancing her story, both thematically and plot-wise.

@Darth Dingbat

You know I actually want neither Rey or Kylo to be each other's love interets but instead to both be important and central characters to the overall story who end up having a relationship between equals.I've really grown to dislike the term love interest because Hollywood has this tendency to create a character(usually a female in blockbuster movies) whose only purpose is to be the love interest without any characteristics that define him as a person.The SW saga has also fallen in this trap.They did so with Padme  and Leia could have become a victim of that as well if the wirting and directing for the OT dadn't prevent that so I would love to see something different thsi time.

@CienaRee

I'd like that too. And I think there are enough hints (from Kylo actually being the most central character in TFA despite his short screentime, to Adam getting top billing) that Kylo is another main character. His role is way too central to be just a "love interest", so I didn't really mean I'd prefer him to be reduced to that.

But I guess I meant that I want Rey to be the hero of her own story, and Kylo to be the hero of his, whilst also advancing her unique story as they unite.

The set-up is rather difficult, of course, because it would be so easy to tell a story where Rey's job is little more than to fall in love and redeem the "real" Skywalker, in the guise of "balancing the Force" or whatever. But I'm confident this whole thing is going to be a lot more interesting and a lot bigger than that.

Darth Dingbat wrote:

CienaRee wrote:

Darth Dingbat wrote:Just to add - stories can be told in so many ways, with different kinds of emphasis. If the PT had been centered on Padmé, for instance - the story of a young Queen who is ultimately defeated, though she heroically believes in her ideals till the very end - the theme of it would have been "So this is how liberty dies... with thunderous applause", not "help, my boyfriend is losing it". Anakin would still have played a huge role in the story, of course, but the slant would have more about even her husband betraying her and her ideals. And her end wouldn't have been "tragic beauty loses her will to live after being disappointed in love", but "tragic hero dies defending the democratic ideals she believes in".

She would still have been the mother of the Skywalkers, but the story would have been hers, and the love story with its ultimate betrayal would have been significant in her heroic arc.

Rey can and should be that. Kylo is her love interest, not vice versa, therefore Kylo should play a role in advancing her story, both thematically and plot-wise.

@Darth Dingbat

You know I actually want neither Rey or Kylo to be each other's love interets but instead to both be important and central characters to the overall story who end up having a relationship between equals.I've really grown to dislike the term love interest because Hollywood has this tendency to create a character(usually a female in blockbuster movies) whose only purpose is to be the love interest without any characteristics that define him as a person.The SW saga has also fallen in this trap.They did so with Padme  and Leia could have become a victim of that as well if the wirting and directing for the OT dadn't prevent that so I would love to see something different thsi time.

@CienaRee

I'd like that too. And I think there are enough hints (from Kylo actually being the most central character in TFA despite his short screentime, to Adam getting top billing) that Kylo is another main character. His role is way too central to be just a "love interest", so I didn't really mean I'd prefer him to be reduced to that.

But I guess I meant that I want Rey to be the hero of her own story, and Kylo to be the hero of his, whilst also advancing her unique story as they unite.

The set-up is rather difficult, of course, because it would be so easy to tell a story where Rey's job is little more than to fall in love and redeem the "real" Skywalker, in the guise of "balancing the Force" or whatever. But I'm confident this whole thing is going to be a lot more interesting and a lot bigger than that.

@Darth Dingbat

Yup,exactly that's what I meant as well(sorry I didn't mean to imply you were trying to reduce Kylo as a love interest I think he can be both a main character and love interest if it's done well.I want Rey to be the hero of her own story as well but I guess the issue some fans might have is that the saga up untill now has mainly centered around the Skywalkers(which is ironic since originally it wasn't suppose to be about that at all untill Lucas decided to make Vader Luke's father) and they might think there won't be enough time to deal with their drama and Rey's parentage mystery.

I think the reason I personally can't see a kiss happening between Rey and Kylo in this trilogy is that everything has to lead up to it, but honestly both of them have a REALLY long way to go before that happens. I don't want to see either of them becoming 'love interests' to each other. Something deeper and more profound has to happen. It has to be more than sexual attraction.

jakkusun wrote:

Saracene wrote:

spacebaby45678 wrote:The people that want Rey Random for feminist reasons have no problem casting her in the role of love interest that redeems Ren
She is then reduced to the Goddess & Temptress as sexual object. Her essential function then becomes to restore the Skywalker legacy to Men/Man Luke/Kylo.  Why don't we flip the script, and let Kylo be the object of desire that returns Rey to her legacy whatever that is.

Where is Rey’s dark night of the soul in this scenario to either confront that her father was a jerk and abandoned her or to weak to save or, or her parents were murdered for which she must seek vengeance and justice. With no parents Rey Tablu rassa fabulosa mary sue, is just here to fix Ren, she has no story of her own.


"Unfortunately, the same concerns are present in Campbell’s academic study of classical stories. Most of the historical myths he studied arose in profoundly sexist eras of human history. Women were property of their fathers or husbands; they were prizes to be won, or spoils of war to be seized and raped. They often held little role in society other than to bear and raise children, and only rarely did they wield political, military, or religious power. And the stories these societies produced usually portrayed women in similar ways, reflecting how the storytellers and their audiences viewed social relations in their time. Female characters were wives and mothers, seductresses and villains, lovers and conquests – but rarely the celebrated victors".

I am Reylo ASF, but ultimately that can't be the total hero's journey for Rey in this Saga. I would like Rey to have a mantle/legacy/burden of her own to carry and either live up to it or live it down.... This is where the Hero's journey is won and it becomes more than a fairy tale/romance.

Finding love in another individual is an essential part of the hero’s journey but so is overcoming your parents and your past. Nobody is nobody even nobodies are somebodies in some form or fashion. Having ancestors gives you something to identify and attach to and something to overcome and reject

You come to accept and reject what you want to create something new this is what every generation does

@spacebaby45678

I agree with a lot of this. I love the potential of the Kylo/Rey storyline, but there are drawbacks to the scenario where Rey is the main protagonist in a series about a family she doesn't come from herself. If you compare it with The Beauty and The Beast, Belle herself doesn't have a big character arc and her story is intertwined with the Beast, but it's a stand-alone story with no weight of a long family saga behind it. All that Skywalker legacy is like a lead ball on a rubber sheet, it can't help but distort and be the centre. Also, Belle has an entire song devoted to expressing what she wants from life, whereas Rey's only expressed desire in TFA is a dead end and beyond that I've no idea what she wants. If I was to be cynical, I'd guess that if they plan for her to be the saviour of the Skywalkers, then she can't really have strong ambitions that might get in the way of that; after all fixing the Skywalkers is something that Rey is likely to end up doing, rather than something she actively decides to do.

The only truly independent thread she has so far is the mystery of her parents, so hopefully there's a real story there (which is IMO achievable with either Rey the Legacy Girl or Rey Random).

@Saracene

I have to agree with this, too. Something in me wants to resist agreeing, but it makes a lot of sense. I suppose it is hard for me to swallow some of this because it's leading me straight to Rey Skywalker right now. If Rey is going to have a big important legacy and be the main protagonist, why would she be anything less than a Skwalker? Seems underwhelming to be anything less, especially since the antagonist has already been revealed as the son of Han and Leia. It's hard to top that. Skywalker even barely tops that. Palpatine seems strange to me idk I guess somehow it could work. Kenobi legacy is still kind of all about fixing the Skywalkers...so what's the difference? Yeah it's poetic and beautiful, but why save that up as a big reveal after you've already revealed Kylo's big lineage? If she started the movie as a revealed kenobi i feel like it would make more sense to me.  And why not make her a Skywalker who fixes the Skywalkers? But since I've ruled out Skywalker for various reasons we have all already discussed at length, and I worry anything else is underwhelming...what could her story possibly be? I suppose that really is the big secret. The big question. As much as it frustrates and worries me.

Though...maybe it is less about who her parents are and more about what she does about it? I think that is the spirit of Rey Random...for me. It's not that she is a nobody, but that she just isn't related to someone we already know in any story yet. And her parents are not necessarily more important than she is? But somehow...what she does and feels about her parents...how it changes and affects her....that is what is important. Or maybe her parents are from an important history or line, just that their individual identities aren't as important. Her currently unknown legacy could be really epic and important still. Maybe that is why Colin Trevrrow said that thing...that her lineage would still feel like it was a story from a galaxy far far away. Or whatever he said. Because if it isn't a Skywalker legacy and anything less than that just doesn't sound epic, then wouldn't we worry that her story won't be epic enough? His comment sounded reassuring...to me. The film makers better have some sort of trick up their sleeves I can't see yet. I've just been focusing on how epic reylo is because I can't figure how Rey's story on her own is going to be epic. But it really needs to be. But what? I suppose there are legacy options that could still be epic, but why not make her a Skywalker? Lol I'm such a pessimist right now. Sorry. I am sure I'll find happiness in whatever the film makers turn out. And my limited imagination and skeptical/pessimistic attitude probably keeps me from seeing how any of the legacy options could work out.

At this point, Jakku is my hope. Jakku is the question. And Jakku is the answer. It's really the only clue we have when it comes to Rey's past. There is a convergence in Jakku, a history, and a darkness. And Rey is tied up in it. And honestly, the whole plot and dark side and everything better be tied up in it, too. Or something. Maybe she will go back there. She probably will? Episode IX? (Will she go back with Kylo because that would be cute...lol okay sorry I had to). Honestly, they keep saying this next movie is going to be weird and I can't see how it won't be weird. Whatever Rey's past is...this better be weird and new and dark and epic or something. A real game changer. Unless we don't find out until IX, then episode VIII will be really weird for other reasons i guess...mainly because we still won't know who the heck she is. But whatever her past is, it better give her some real stake in the battle that is going on. (Even Skywalker doesn't do that very effectively somehow in my opinion.) Some tie to the darkness even? But it can't be a Luke having an evil father "nooooo" rehash. Okay maybe it could. But still, Something that really gives her a reason to fight and be involved in the bigger mess. At least Luke had his aunt and uncle killed by the empire when he started out. His father was a Jedi and also Vader. Really, idk still why Rey or Finn decided to change their minds and fight. Finn at least has a better personal reason and history with the first order, but Rey? Right now, since I'm not gonna jump on the Skywalker bandwagon, all I've really got (from the movie) is the Jakku mystery box.

Okay and maybe her past is somehow connected to the first Jedi temple and the first Jedi or something really ancient like that. And it was fate that she ended up there on the island. And she doesn't dream of the island because Luke is there, but because it is her home...the home of her ancestors or something. That would be epic. And it's probably related to Jakku anyway. Somehow. Lol I'm obsessed with Jakku.

Sorry guys I just did a stream-of-consciousness brain dump. Don't mind me.

Edit-and while I was writing this you guys said a lot of this already and it's a great discussion so I'm just gonna go through and like everything. Lol

@jakkusun

You make some really great points.At this point in the story there aren't any real stakes for Rey like they were for Luke or Leia.Yes,she saw Han being killed biut she only knew him for a few hours or days at best.She also barely knows Leia or has any connection to the Reistanse(excpet BB8) the way Luke did with the Rebellion so I hope that changes.
Finn actually had much more relaistic reasosn as to why he would help the Reistanse-he just wanted to get Rey back who was his first real friend(besides Poe) and deiced to fight against Kylo to protect her.We still don't know how he would react when he wakes up and what his allegiance would be and whether he will have any doubst about it.

Mana wrote:I think the reason I personally can't see a kiss happening between Rey and Kylo in this trilogy is that everything has to lead up to it, but honestly both of them have a REALLY long way to go before that happens. I don't want to see either of them becoming 'love interests' to each other. Something deeper and more profound has to happen. It has to be more than sexual attraction.

@Mana
Well,there's aways the possibility that it happens at the very end of the trilogy after everything they go through both individually and together.
Also having a cnetral love story if it does involve Kylo and Rey doesn't mean it has to be about making out.
Ofcourse you can be right and there's no kiss at all but I kind of want that to happen because it would break the Internet for sure.

.