ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors - 11

Little_Boots wrote:

Mrs Ben Solo wrote:

Little_Boots wrote:

MeadowofAshes wrote:@"Little_Boots I do agree with the general sentiment that people should not put expectations or stigmas on a character due to race, but in the States it's an incredibly sensitive issue especially given the current socio-political climate. I don't go into the theatre looking for stereotypes but when something I am bombarded with on the news constantly (the stereotype of a black man being tazed while accused of thievery, whether guilty or innocent) shows up in a film I'm going to notice and wonder what TPTB were thinking.

Just today I had to discipline a 12 year old student for saying the N word not once but twice, laughing and saying it again to his friends because he got into trouble for it the first time. This sort of thing didn't happen when I was a student - back then it had become socially unacceptable to be blatantly racist so if you were you were awfully quiet about it. But thinking racism against people of color is somehow funny or acceptable just because you're in a room full of white people has become a thing with my students recently and I have my guesses as to why. Again, I don't think the character choices with Finn were at all intentionally racist, but those stereotypes aren't something we need perpetuated and Americans on that artistic team should have had the wherewithal to realize that.

@MeadowofAshes

I understand that it is an issue, and I am not heartless when I say people should just go into the cinema and forget all this stuff. Unfortunately, this is something that won't go away over night. Hopefully one day this sort of problem will go away. It also works both ways. I don't like to watch the news because I find it depressing. This thing with Finn is very tame (if there is anything to see which I don't) when you compare it to something like........I don't know......Blazzing Saddles? Yea I know, it's an old comedy. You'll only see this stuff in Star Wars if you chose to see it. Ugh. I am digging a hole now. Whereas something like Blazzing Saddles drums it into your head all the way throughout the film.

@Little_Boots

But Blazing Saddles was a satire which sought to expose the absurdity of prejudice. It's like the show Family Guy. I cringe at some of it but the stuff they put in there is meant to expose how ridiculous certain stereotypes and preconceptions are. Like you can laugh at it if you're totally ignorant and just see surface stuff or you can appreciate the ironies and satire on a deeper level.

@Mrs Ben Solo

I know all that. Which is why I am stunned at this whole race thing with Finn. So am I ignorant now if I laugh at that film?

@Little_Boots

It's not ignorance to laugh at the absurdity of it. People laugh at things for different reasons is all I'm saying. I can't personally find anything to laugh at in certain kinds of comedy, such as ridiculing people with learning disabilities. But that is because I'm classified as having a learning disability as are my children. It is hard to laugh at something when you know the hurt it can cause. Of course, not everyone sees the world in the same way and you don't have to have been subject to certain prejudices to have understanding or compassion. You can still find things offensive that don't personally affect you. But people's life experiences do come into play and make them sensitive to stuff that others wouldn't give a second thought to.

ZioRen wrote:@Mrs Ben Solo

I was agreeing with you, actually! And expanding on it, but maybe not well. I've got a bit of insomnia right now and might be typing weird stuff.

@ZioRen

Ha, no worries. I'm a fellow insomniac and often talk nonsense. I'm off up the wooden hill now though because I have an early appointment and I don't want to be a complete zombie if I can help it!

Mrs Ben Solo wrote:

Little_Boots wrote:

Mrs Ben Solo wrote:

Little_Boots wrote:

MeadowofAshes wrote:@"Little_Boots I do agree with the general sentiment that people should not put expectations or stigmas on a character due to race, but in the States it's an incredibly sensitive issue especially given the current socio-political climate. I don't go into the theatre looking for stereotypes but when something I am bombarded with on the news constantly (the stereotype of a black man being tazed while accused of thievery, whether guilty or innocent) shows up in a film I'm going to notice and wonder what TPTB were thinking.

Just today I had to discipline a 12 year old student for saying the N word not once but twice, laughing and saying it again to his friends because he got into trouble for it the first time. This sort of thing didn't happen when I was a student - back then it had become socially unacceptable to be blatantly racist so if you were you were awfully quiet about it. But thinking racism against people of color is somehow funny or acceptable just because you're in a room full of white people has become a thing with my students recently and I have my guesses as to why. Again, I don't think the character choices with Finn were at all intentionally racist, but those stereotypes aren't something we need perpetuated and Americans on that artistic team should have had the wherewithal to realize that.

@MeadowofAshes

I understand that it is an issue, and I am not heartless when I say people should just go into the cinema and forget all this stuff. Unfortunately, this is something that won't go away over night. Hopefully one day this sort of problem will go away. It also works both ways. I don't like to watch the news because I find it depressing. This thing with Finn is very tame (if there is anything to see which I don't) when you compare it to something like........I don't know......Blazzing Saddles? Yea I know, it's an old comedy. You'll only see this stuff in Star Wars if you chose to see it. Ugh. I am digging a hole now. Whereas something like Blazzing Saddles drums it into your head all the way throughout the film.

@Little_Boots

But Blazing Saddles was a satire which sought to expose the absurdity of prejudice. It's like the show Family Guy. I cringe at some of it but the stuff they put in there is meant to expose how ridiculous certain stereotypes and preconceptions are. Like you can laugh at it if you're totally ignorant and just see surface stuff or you can appreciate the ironies and satire on a deeper level.

@Mrs Ben Solo

I know all that. Which is why I am stunned at this whole race thing with Finn. So am I ignorant now if I laugh at that film?

@Little_Boots

It's not ignorance to laugh at the absurdity of it. People laugh at things for different reasons is all I'm saying. I can't personally find anything to laugh at in certain kinds of comedy, such as ridiculing people with learning disabilities. But that is because I'm classified as having a learning disability as are my children. It is hard to laugh at something when you know the hurt it can cause. Of course, not everyone sees the world in the same way and you don't have to have been subject to certain prejudices to have understanding or compassion. You can still find things offensive that don't personally affect you. But people's life experiences do come into play and make them sensitive to stuff that others wouldn't give a second thought to.

@Mrs Ben Solo

I would never laugh at someone being brought down. I can understand people too when they have issues with this sort of comedy. I just see it as a comedy. I don't try and look deeper although I see what is really going on, I would have a hard time in life if I let it affect me.
Family Guy is actually not my kind of show. For instance, the kind of stuff I would laugh at in Blazzing Saddles, woudn't actually be the racist jokes, they would be more along the lines of this.....



NOW before people start thinking I am laughing at a racist joke. I am laughing at peoples faces and reactions. Not the deeper context. If that makes sense.

0:32
The face on the guy in the red at 0:32 to the black guy singing the song. Not the fact that its stereotypical for white people to sing that type of song and then the white people start singing camp town lady. It's just reactions to things I find funny.
Thanks for letting me know though and I do understand, I really do. One of my best friends is someone with a disability and he is the nicest, sweetest person I know. A very good soul through and through and the thought of someone being mean to him or making fun of him, makes a lump form in my throat.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Thank You and with topics like this sometimes I feel like this

Spoiler:

@Little_Boots You certainly didn't upset me; I was just trying to explain why I feel it's an issue given the current climate. It's all good.

@vaderito Oh believe me, I get the problem of self-proclaimed SJWs throwing a (usually hypocritical) hissy to get their way. I'll reiterate, I don't think there was at all racist or any other malicious intent behind Finn. What I think is they commit an unintentional faux pas with a couple of the scenarios he was in. Ideally, yes, a character's race doesn't determine which scenarios they are or are not put in. I just don't see having sensitivity toward current events as treating him with kid gloves. He's a round character with flaws, and I'm not asking for him to be Super Finn or not get the s*** kicked out of him by Kylo because he's an everyman. I'm saying, during a time of increased incidences (or at least awareness) of police brutality toward black men, were I writing I might have BB-8 do something besides taze the guy during an accusation of thievery. It's obviously not a big enough issue to turn me off of the movie, just an area I think TPTB didn't fully consider.

Finn's loyalty is a wonderful character trait although I would have highlighted courage and empathy first. I'm most interested in his development of integrity (including toward himself) as the films progress. My problem with the character is the over the top humor. I find it irritating (just not my taste I guess) and hope it's toned down in future episodes.

@MeadowofAshes that is good to know it's just you never can tell.

Little_Boots wrote:@MeadowofAshes that is good to know it's just you never can tell.

@Little_Boots
It's hard to tell tone online and I'm bad about not using emojis when they'd be helpful. After 7 months of interacting with each other on this forum, I don't know, I think we should all be able to have (dare I speak the word? ) nuanced discussions with each other on topics like these without being afraid of having our heads bitten off. I don't take a thing anyone says here personally; I just like to discuss a variety of topics, even the controversial ones. Although we're all probably so used to dealing with Antis, defensiveness is a natural reaction to conflict.

Offhandedly, Blazing Saddles is a top notch flick.  It's funny for the absurdity of the prejudices it exposes, but it's also a gem in situational and dry humor. My favorite bit is the exchange between Bart and Jim when Jim first wakes up in the prison cell. It's not so much the lines themselves as the delivery and the chemistry between Little and Wilder that gets me. We all have different things that tickle us for whatever reason.

Oh you feel like you're one person with about 10 guns pointed? When you share an opinion? Or share anything for that matter?

You're not he one who is clearly being spoken about. Then all of a sudden right on que everyone pops into the thread, tries to gang up and discredit the validity of something official in the usual fashion, ( on mass )because it's not matching up with how you personally saw tfa. Then as if right on que everyone disappears again.

Fizz stop acting like people were going to call you racist. That's just as much as an accusation and attempt to make people look bad when no one of the sort was trying to make you or anyone feel that way in the first place. Stop trying to paint a picture of people that is not true. All that was happening was a discussion about tropes and how some can be harmful to groups of people, I fail to see how that is implying anyone here is racist.

What's worse, because people couldn't just discuss the book content rather than trying in vain to discredit it and me. Some People who actually popped in and wanted to talk about what the book said, quickly disappeared when they saw the hive attack and me retaliating.

How is it that mere words and opinions can make people feel they are being accused of racism, but  a movie on a big screen with  historically negative tropes shouldn't make anyone feel or believe anything at all?

Especially when the only thing being discussed is a work of art? How anyone on here personalizes that is beyond me....

Gemini wrote:Oh you feel like you're one person with about 10 guns pointed? When you share an opinion? Or share anything for that matter?

You're not he one who is clearly being spoken about. Then all of a sudden right on que everyone pops into the thread, tries to gang up and discredit the validity of something official in the usual fashion, ( on mass )because it's not matching up with how you personally saw tfa. Then as if right on que everyone disappears again.

Fizz stop acting like people were going to call you racist. That's just as much as an accusation and attempt to make people look bad when no one of the sort was trying to make you or anyone feel that way in the first place. Stop trying to paint a picture of people that is not true. All that was happening was a discussion about tropes and how some can be harmful to groups of people, I fail to see how that is implying anyone here is racist.

What's worse, because people couldn't just discuss the book content rather than trying in vain to discredit it and me. Some People who actually popped in and wanted to talk about what the book said, quickly disappeared when they saw the hive attack and me retaliating.

@Gemini

I give about two salts to what Pabs says these days, he has been at times contradictory and inconsistent in his comments. Someone at LF worked on or reviewed this book, it is obvious to me, maybe it was not Pabs but someone in the know did.... The Disney & LucasFilm logo is telling and the absence of Hayden and the Rogue One promotional material

I don't think I came across very well last night, but for the record, I agree that LF was naive and even misguided in not considering how certain aspects of Finn's character would come across. I've also said before that it was a mistake to set up a pseudo "love triangle" where they subtly toy with the idea of an interracial romance, only for the white guy to swoop in as the real future love interest.

I just fail to see how that makes Lucasfilm racist, when the character was conceived as white and cast colourblind. At worst that makes them oblivious to the potential pitfalls. Which they were.

The Jedi!Finn marketing, however, was an incredibly stupid move.

Let's say no one at Lucas Film touched or saw this book... the book is only documenting what is in the movie, so it's canon

Gemini wrote:Oh you feel like you're one person with about 10 guns pointed? When you share an opinion? Or share anything for that matter?

You're not he one who is clearly being spoken about. Then all of a sudden right on que everyone pops into the thread, tries to gang up and discredit the validity of something official in the usual fashion, ( on mass )because it's not matching up with how you personally saw tfa. Then as if right on que everyone disappears again.

Fizz stop acting like people were going to call you racist. That's just as much as an accusation and attempt to make people look bad when no one of the sort was trying to make you or anyone feel that way in the first place. Stop trying to paint a picture of people that is not true. All that was happening was a discussion about tropes and how some can be harmful to groups of people, I fail to see how that is implying anyone here is racist.

What's worse, because people couldn't just discuss the book content rather than trying in vain to discredit it and me. Some People who actually popped in and wanted to talk about what the book said, quickly disappeared when they saw the hive attack and me retaliating.

@Gemini

But that's not how these discussions have ever worked? With every single new source and spoiler and "spoiler", some people have discussed the content of it, whilst others have discussed the validity of the source material. These type of discussions have always happened concurrently, it has never killed the conversation, and it has never been about "discrediting" any particular poster or point of view. Why would it be so now? Some people believe Pablo always tells the truth; are they insulted by the Pablo-skeptics? Some people think Rax is Snoke, others question the validity of the hints in Life Debt; has anyone taken offence at that?

But you know what, you can freely discuss whatever you like without my unseemly skepticism because I'm not going to comment on any of this anymore. For some reason you started seeing me as one of your enemies at some point, which frankly baffles me because I never realised anything of the sort was going on. If you were offended by something I said in the past, I wish you'd told me directly instead of getting angry every time I comment on some topic that you too happen to be discussing.

Pablo doesn't know about the book?

It's a U.K. Publication. Most likely lucasfilm U.K. Branch in charge of it and it's content.

It's just a pattern of behaviour @Darth dingbat

No one cared to try and discredit this on mass until I started posting it.

Like you said it's made the rounds on tumblr etc.. nonesuch Posted it etc but only when I start sharing parts of does it become something which needs to be discredited.

Pablo saying he doesn't know about the annual doesn't discredit anything. Is he the overseer of every piece of media lucasfilm publish? I have a hard time imagining all that falling on one employee. Especially with different branches. He's not the only person who oversees all books and publications that come out of lucasfilm. Especially in the uk where they have their own branch.

I also don't give much credence to the games sections in that annual, but the layout and presentation of snippets of information, that's interesting to me.

@Gemini


UK office definately has spoilers and future direction, as does Lego and Hasbro, fan boys know this! that is why they go over the finer details of the toys that are issued...already MSW can tell things that might happen to Vader in Rogue one based on the action figure that has been released it is all fascinating... many of the MSW spoilers are actually coming from insiders at the toy companies

Gemini wrote:Oh you feel like you're  one person with about 10 guns pointed? When you share an opinion? Or share anything for that matter?

You're not he one who is clearly being spoken about. Then all of a sudden right on que everyone pops into the thread, tries to gang up and discredit the validity of something official in the usual fashion, ( on mass )because it's not matching up with how you personally saw tfa. Then as if right on que everyone disappears again.

Fizz stop acting like people were  going to call you racist. That's just as much as an accusation and attempt to make people look bad when no one of the sort was trying to make you or anyone feel that way in the first place. Stop trying to paint a picture of people that is not true. All that was happening was a discussion about tropes and how some can be harmful to groups of people, I fail to see how that is implying anyone here is racist.

What's worse, because people couldn't just discuss the book content rather than trying in vain to discredit it and me. Some People who actually popped in and wanted to talk about what the book said, quickly disappeared when they saw the hive attack and me retaliating.

@Gemini

Hold on a minute, I wasn't talking about you, I never mentioned you once Gemini, when I posted that guns pic. It was meant to be a joke, not directed at anyone but myself. Nevermind I guess.

"you're not the one who's clearly being talked about "

What are you talking about? I was replying to comments that had myself tagged.

You know, I know people who work for Industrial Light & Magic uk, I should bite the bullet and prod around about info on their U.K. Publications.

Also ask about spoilers, though I don't like doing that. 9 times out of 10 they will misdirect you. Which is why I dont believe everything Pablo says

"Let Rey be Rey" is another way as saying "shut up and enjoy the character and stop asking me about things I can't discuss "

And fanboys don't go to Pabs and ask is this or that toy is canon....If it is a toy issued by Hasbro or Lego they know...in fact there was a state side publisher that had spoilers but also had an internal leak, and LF tracked it down to them and they lost their license to publish


@gemini

Egmont UK is listed here on starwars.com for a bunch of official Rogue One publications


http://www.starwars.com/news/rogue-one-and-star-wars-40th-publishing-programs-revealed

Thanks spacebaby

I'm sure hey are well trusted with publication if they are listed in such a way, especially with working on Rogue One publications

@gemini

your welcome, it is interesting when it comes to the toys and books what do they know of future plots, timelines and spoilers

Media Lab lost it's license because of a leak back in May of 2016, so their Rogue One books got cancelled, follow the link...

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Rogue_One:_A_Star_Wars_Story:_Rebel_Alliance_Field_Manual

Toy company convention was held in Las Vegas this summer, they have already seen a trailer for episdoe 8, story here

http://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2016/06/episode-viii-footage-shown-during-license-expo-in-vegas-different-age-group-being-targeted-for-rogue-one.html


So there is lots of hints, clues and information that can be gleaned from toys and books, it is probably a small group or one person in each company that knows some things, not all, but more than we in the public do... so annual gave us new info, and I find that interesting

Yep, there is tight regulation on what can and can't be printed. Lots of them probably know spoilers and are given strict instructions about what they can and can't write or push to the public. It's Star Wars, there needs to be a level of authenticity and quality.

MeadowofAshes wrote:@Little_Boots You certainly didn't upset me; I was just trying to explain why I feel it's an issue given the current climate. It's all good.

@vaderito Oh believe me, I get the problem of self-proclaimed SJWs throwing a (usually hypocritical) hissy to get their way. I'll reiterate, I don't think there was at all racist or any other malicious intent behind Finn. What I think is they commit an unintentional faux pas with a couple of the scenarios he was in. Ideally, yes, a character's race doesn't determine which scenarios they are or are not put in. I just don't see having sensitivity toward current events as treating him with kid gloves. He's a round character with flaws, and I'm not asking for him to be Super Finn or not get the s*** kicked out of him by Kylo because he's an everyman. I'm saying, during a time of increased incidences (or at least awareness) of police brutality toward black men, were I writing I might have BB-8 do something besides taze the guy during an accusation of thievery.  It's obviously not a big enough issue to turn me off of the movie, just an area I think TPTB didn't fully consider.

Finn's loyalty is a wonderful character trait although I would have highlighted courage and empathy first. I'm most interested in his development of integrity (including toward himself) as the films progress. My problem with the character is the over the top humor. I find it irritating (just not my taste I guess) and hope it's toned down in future episodes.

@MeadowofAshes

That's because most people don't think about it, to be honest, and IMO, they don't have to. America is very diverse with people coming to the country constantly and expecting that all those different people will relate to one thing and always have it on their mind is utopia. especially when it comes to history that they were never any part of. Like, you can't expect from writer, director, etc to go "because the police shot someone, I have to write out a taser'n'thief scene." Human mind doesn't work that way, especially human mind that honestly has no ill intention.

I didn't pick up on taser'n'thief and I didn't pick up on segregated water fountain and I guarantee you that those scenes weren't written with that in mind nor anyone who made them picked up on that. if they were aware than scenes wouldn't be there. It's really simple. 

You can't be careful enough if you don't know every single detail that is considered offensive or if you really have no reason to think that anything you put in your movie is viewed as such. Film-makers aren't historians and they don't live and breathe social justice causes either. To them, BB8 tasering Finn is a fun scene not Ferguson. And I'm sure that 99.99% of audience didn't make the connection either because there's no connection. People who want to see connections see them. others simply enjoy the movie.

Darth Dingbat wrote:I don't think I came across very well last night, but for the record, I agree that LF was naive and even misguided in not considering how certain aspects of Finn's character would come across. I've also said before that it was a mistake to set up a pseudo "love triangle" where they subtly toy with the idea of an interracial romance, only for the white guy to swoop in as the real future love interest.

I just fail to see how that makes Lucasfilm racist, when the character was conceived as white and cast colourblind. At worst that makes them oblivious to the potential pitfalls. Which they were.

The Jedi!Finn marketing, however, was an incredibly stupid move.

@Darth Dingbat

Nobody toyed with the idea of interracial romance. Nobody. That's the whole point. Sequel trilogy has HEROINE not a HERO. HEROINE stories work differently from hero stories and different rules apply. In a hero story, boy meets girl, saves girl, she naturally falls in love with him because he's oh so strong and protective, everything a man should be. So in a hero story, if a boy grabs girls hand and pulls her to safety, she has no choice but to fall in love with him cause that's how hero stories work.

However, heroine story isn't that with gender reversal. At all. When Finn grabbed Rey hand and rey saved Finn, that didn't mean that he had to fall in love with her and she with him because it's not that kind of a story. Male LI in a heroine story is different type of character altogether from female LI in a hero story. Totally. Finn is Xander. When Buffy hit the screens, I'm sure that many expected Xander to be her LI because boy meets girl, girl meets boy, same difference, right? Wrong. You can't have a heroine story with a Finn or Xander because they are not the animus. Heroine Journey =/= Hero Journey. Heroine Stories =/= Hero Stories. Psychology is completely different. 

Look at literature with a female lead. Male LI are as iconic as the heroines and without an exception start from antagonistic "shadow" place. Persephone/Hades, Belle/Beast, Jane/Rochester, Lizzie/Darcy, Scarlett/Rhett, etc. Compelling male LI who is heroine's shadow is IMPERATIVE. OTOH, plenty of books and movies with a male lead has serviceable female LI because she isn't as big deal in his journey as is male LI in heroine's. Everyone knows who David Copperfield is but who remembers his LI's name? Is she an icon like he is? No. Ginny Weasley is not an icon like Harry Potter. She's a serviceable trophy but not an iconic, greatly fleshed out character like Hermione. 

In short, Hero/LI and Heroine/LI are different dynamics. Once again, not a real life discussion but fiction discussion.

Now, the reason why we are going through this Finnrey misunderstand is because some fans know their SW inside out but have no clue about how heroine-centered fiction and movies work. And ST is a heroine-centered trilogy. It isn't hero-centered. So dynamics is different. But considering that big chunk of those fans also deny Rey her main protagonist status and think she's a misdirection that hides that Finn's the real hero, no wonder they are off and set up for disappointment.

Well, @vaderito, you don't have to convince me. I know a heroine's journey is different, and I know FinnRey wasn't played as a romance. Even when I was watching TFA the first time and had no idea of Reylo yet, I felt that FinnRey wasn't happening when they parted ways at Maz's castle. And the "thank you, my friend" kiss confirmed it for me.

But at the very beginning I did automatically assume they might be The Couple, and of course there are ambiguous lines like "you got a boyfriend?" and "you looked at me like no one else had", and even a scene where the two young males seem to be fighting over the girl (although they're not, really). It's hardly surprising that a significant portion of the audience wouldn't stop to analyse a heroine's journey but would instead fixate on this early, surface-level impression and assume that FinnRey will be the couple (even if they don't think it will be at all exciting or interesting as a romance).

None of this would be a problem if Finn had been played by Jesse Plemons. It's only a "problem" because of the impression - even if it will turn out to be incorrect - that a white guy and a black guy are rivals over the white girl. It's not surprising if this, combined with the letdown of Jedi!Finn marketing, will make people feel like Finn got shafted as a lead. The first black lead in SW was a bait.

Of course this all has to do with the confusion over who's the real protagonist, who's the hero, and who's the Skywalker and what can the trajectory be if the hero isn't a Skywalker herself. But you can't say that Lucasfilm did nothing to perpetuate the confusion. They started it, and assumed people would be perceptive enough to figure out the red herrings for themselves. Well, surprise surprise, most people - even intelligent people - don't work that hard to interpret an entertaining film.

But FinnTran is going to be awesome and people will love it, so it's going to be alright in the end.

Just to clarify, I never meant that Egmont is some kind of a shady small firm. It's a big Scandinavian corporation, one branch of which is a reputable children's publisher in the UK. Copy-pasting from Wikipedia, you can see they publish material about a large number of trademarked characters:

Egmont Publishing
Egmont Publishing publish a wide range of formats for children of all ages: storybooks, annuals, colouring, activity and sticker books as well as a wide range of novelty books. The Publishing list contains books featuring licensed characters, including:

Babar
Barbie
Ben 10
Bob the Builder
Cars
Cat Royal
Charlie Bone
Disney Fairies
Disney Princesses
Dora the Explorer
Fireman Sam
Flat Stanley
Go Girl
Halo Mythos
LazyTown
Miffy
Mr. Gum
Mr. Men & Little Miss
Nickelodeon
Numberjacks
Plonsters
Postman Pat
All About...Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time
Power Rangers
Roy of the Rovers
Rupert Bear
Shaun the Sheep
The Little Prince
The Rainbow Orchid
The Wind in the Willows
Thomas and Friends
The Adventures of Tintin
Toxic
Tumtum and Nutmeg
Wallace and Gromit
Winnie-the-Pooh
Zoey101

But some Star Wars books obviously have more involvement from the Story Group than others, and that has nothing to do with the reputation of the publisher. I wouldn't look for any "canon facts" in sticker books or colouring books, for example. Bloodline from Del Rey had obviously lots of input from Lucasfilm, and I expect the Galactic Atlas (also from Egmont) to have mostly accurate maps. At the same time, the TFA novelisation (also from Del Rey) wasn't checked by the Story Group at all, which is pretty weird if you think about it.

Lastly, this booklet was advertised on the official starwars.com site: http://www.starwars.com/news/star-wars-the-force-awakens-the-official-visual-story-guide-available-now



If you remember, it said that Kylo was the founder of the KOR, and lots of people thought that was a canon fact because the guide was advertised as "official". Well, turned out that nobody had actually fact-checked this "official story guide" at all, and that information was inaccurate.

But, to clarify once again: I was not trying to badmouth Egmont here. It's a perfectly fine children's publisher. That was never my point.

Of course, when we say people and fans we mean minority of opinions, not GA. Moreover, we also know that VIII script was written while TFA was still in production and Finn's LI cast before TFA came out. So Rey and Finn were never meant to be a couple and no attempts to use race baiting will change that. Film-makers conscious is clear. They have nothing to apologize for to anyone.

BTW, I knew they weren't going to be the couple right from the start because their chemsitry was all wrong. Way too sibling-like. So that was my first red alert and than it got worse, since there was nothing that signaled romance. They were acting in a sitcom, not a romcom.