Rey's Lineage Discussion II

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

ZioRen wrote:

Saracene wrote:I think that Rey Kenobi is totally possible, I just can't see, at the moment, what it offers to the story other than heartwarming fanservice.

Like... the two previous heritage reveals in the series both had huge repercussions for the story and characters. Rey finds out that Obi-Wan was her grandfather, and..? Cool my grandfather was an awesome Jedi knight? What else besides that?

@Saracene

To me, Rey Kenobi balances on a tightrope above the Reywalker pit. Many of the arguments I've seen about why Rey should be a Kenobi are pretty much the same as many of the Reywalker arguments. Her parents must be important, they must be important to the universe, they must be important to the audience, she must come from a notable lineage or her character won't be prominent or won't be able to stand with Kylo, the story is built up as a bloodline fairytale, etc etc.

The thing is, Rey Skywalker is the much simpler theory that fulfills all those elements that Rey's story "must" have, and in a way that will be more "impactful" because people love Luke and so many want Rey to be his daughter. So half the time I find myself inserting "Rey Skywalker" into "Rey Kenobi" theories (minus the parallels, but there are just as many Skywalker parallels as Kenobi ones, if not more) and then I just get nervous. I'm already losing faith, to be honest. More and more I'm thinking she might just be a Skywalker no matter how many snarky tweets Pablo tweets that suggest otherwise.

@ZioRen
The thing is Reywalker is not the simpler story, it's actually been made into one of the most complex and difficult to tell because of one thing: the timeline. It's not simple at all, it's the plot-hole and retcon filled god of all illogical theories full of exposition, nonexistent wives/mothers and missing kids that aren't missing because they have never been mentioned, referred to or even hinted at in any canon ancillary material, most notably Bloodline. I don't see it as a dead theory because of anything Pablo has said, nor even JJ. I see it that way because of the canon material/timeline we've been given. I'll go through it now for all our sakes.

> Luke spent the years after RotJ building a new Jedi Order (he became more myth than man)
> Ben was born shortly after RotJ
> Han and Leia's different interests/jobs drove them physically apart (while they maintained a strong marriage)
> Ben was sent to train with Luke at a young age because Leia and Han thought it would be better for him
> Luke and Ben travelled together for years, throughout which Leia and Han didn't see them often
> Everything fell apart when Ben Solo fell to the dark side, which has been implied to have occurred when he was about 23
> Luke exiled himself to Ahch-To, where the first Jedi came to be
> Han and Leia separated when they couldn't bear the pain of what had happened to their son, with Leia blaming Snoke for seducing him

So that's the basic summary of all the major events in the post-RotJ Skywalker timeline. The clincher? Kylo is 29. If he did fall around 23 then Rey had already been alone on Jakku for 7-8 years. So while Luke and Ben and Han and Leia were embroiled in their own drama (relationship drama, family drama, political drama), Rey was already rotting on Jakku for years. Couple this the fact that there has never been any reference to a missing daughter in either the film or any ancillary material and I can't help but think that the whole Rey being Luke's long-lost child thing would be a heck of a lot more difficult to explain than a lot of hardcore fans want to acknowledge. These are not small, easy to overlook plot holes, they're gaping, infected wounds that nobody would miss. And we've had confirmation again and again that the timeline in Bloodline is the timeline from TFA, it is the canon timeline.

@FrolickingFizzgig

THANK YOU.

Hardcore fans are attached to the theory claiming that the "simple answer is the right one", but Rey Skywalker is the most complex one. They think it's simple because "TPTB call the movies a Skywalker Saga > she's the protagonist > she's looking for Luke Skywalker > she's also looking for her family > Luke Skywalker is her father".

The amount of things they'd have to address to make Rey Skywalker work would shift the focus from Rey to Luke 100%, because we would need to know:

> How, when and why Luke had a child while being a Master Jedi and working relentlessly on a new Jedi order
> How he managed to have a girlfriend while travelling with Ben in the Bloodline timeframe
> Who and where is the girlfriend/mother
> Why, when and how Rey was abandoned in Jakku
> How all of this is related to Snoke and the rise of the First Order (the main conflict in-universe)

And even if Luke didn't know about the child to make him look good ("oh, he didn't abandon her! he didn't even know she existed!") they would still need to explain all of the above.

Sacrebleu wrote:

Gemini wrote:

Saracene wrote:I think that Rey Kenobi is totally possible, I just can't see, at the moment, what it offers to the story other than heartwarming fanservice.

Like... the two previous heritage reveals in the series both had huge repercussions for the story and characters. Rey finds out that Obi-Wan was her grandfather, and..? Cool my grandfather was an awesome Jedi knight? What else besides that?

@Saracene

"That's classified"

"Who's the girl"

Et. Etc

"Oh I'm the descendent of a nerf herder."

I think the majority of the audience will yawn collectively at such an anti climactic  reveal.

Rey kenobi would just be heartwarming? That's what Star Wars is. Also it would mean more, much more than that in terms of reylo and her importance to the skywalkers, you know, the actual story.

I'm kind of tired arguing, this board is a very small pocket of people who want random. And dislike rey lineage (unless she's dark side palpatine of course which is hypocritical) It's actually the only place I see this really. Majority of people want something a bit more exciting and have accepted recent information as strong indication of who she is. This board ignores anything that is not  matching popular opinion. You guys successfully and repeatedly have me thinking and believeing that I am crazy and imagining things that are not there. You have be believing that my saber theory is just a pile of nonsensical crap.

Then I step out of the bubble for a second and 26 thousand people love it and see exactly how it makes sense. Nearly 2 million have watched it and 20 grand is made off it. I have yet to see random ever make any  kind of money or generate any kind of excitement. This will be the same in the cinema. Yawn. The evidence for random is completely non existent. Like nothing.

Daisy says tfa answers a lot about who she is. Well it most certainly does not point to random  in any shape or form what so ever.  Not once.

My insights are incredibly wasted here.  

Whilst I was trying to write about a theory here for discussion which no one ever acknowledged or appreciated someone came along and stole it and made thousands off it. I should have put that energy elsewhere where it is appreciated.

It's taken a long time for me to understand this.

@Gemini

Not everybody here wants random.  I don't.  Kenobi is my favorite theory.  I have very much appreciated your insights; I often found them quite brilliant.  I think the signs and symbolism are there.  But I don't trust the filmmakers to follow through even if I'm right.  I was in the theater for "Leia is my sister!".  There are multiple creative minds contributing to these films, all of whom bring their particular point of view.  

You may be confusing disagreement or less than wholehearted agreement with an attempt to shut you up or ganging up on you.  Perception is reality for each and every one of us, and perception is always limited to a degree.  It is never all seeing, all knowing.

@Gemini

We all know how much you provide great stuff on the forum and beyond. The goal isn't to shut the Rey Kenobi theory - or even you personally - up.  If I like this forum so much, it's precisely because I find that all people there bring great stuff and debate with much respect despite different opinions.

When @Saracene wrote this post, I don't think he/she intended to tell you that the parallels you've been pointing out don't exist or are irrelevant. He/she probably wanted to ask a legitimate and important question: what is the sense behind this lineage? He/she didn't mean it makes no sense but he/she doesn't see personally what exactly it would bring for Rey's journey and for the plot in general. I think that we all agree it would be heartwarming to have Rey as Obi-Wan's granddaughter. But beyond that: what would it imply concretly for her character development and for the story? I think @Saracene definitely  raises a legitimate and important question there. It's not about shut down a theory but ask how this lineage could impact Rey as a character and the whole plot.  

That's why, I completely recognize myself in @Saracene's comment because I actually ask myself exactly the same question as him/her. [b]I think that the hidden meaning behind his/her question wasn't "Rey Kenobi makes zero sense! Shut up!" but rather "For what rational reason would the screenwriters have made Rey a Kenobi?". So it isn't about saying that Rey Kenobi can't be but rather finding out together why it would make sense to make her a Kenobi providing that the screenwriters would really go that road. So I ask myself this question too: Great to know that she could be the granddaughter of the awesome Jedi Master Kenobi according to visual parallel but it raised three legitimate and important questions:
- Do parallels necessarily  prove lineage (because after all Finn parallel Luke as much as Rey parallel Obi-Wan)?
- What would the screenwriters have in mind by choosing this specific lineage for Rey?
- Why would this lineage make more sense than any other?
Personally, I don't see it very clearly right now but @spacebaby45678 helped me already by bringing some interesting stuff about the possible meaning of both  Obi-Wan & Rey's role in the story. It's not that I don't want to see the sense behind the Kenobi lineage but my perception is quite limited there. So that's why I would be interested to know what do you think about that because your perception on Rey Kenobi is certainly wider than mine since - contrary to me - you've focused on this aspect of TFA . My question isn't about the parallels themselves because we all know they exist since you've pointed them out very well. My question is about the sense behind the lineage: for which purpose do you think would the screenwriters make Rey a Kenobi and what would it imply for her character development  

As for the lineages, my impression is that there is no master theory among the forum and i think it's fine so. People have various opinions, so it's normal and very welcome they disagree as long as they respect each other. I just know that I would be happy with any lineage but only if it makes sense to me. It's just that it's much easier for me to come to a satisfying answer to my question with dark side origins because I see what it could bring concretely both for Rey's journey and for the plot. It's not for the fun to have Rey suffering as hell but because it would raise interesting points that weren't really explored in SW until now. The ST is very much about moral conflict with this idea of bringing grey area rather than black vs. white conception of the world. If Rey had some dark connection, it could be interesting for her character development because it would legitimate conflict within her. The girl has been waiting for so long for her family to come back and probably idealized them. So I can imagine what it could imply for her providing that the screenwriters would go that road: "If my parents were part of the FO - or whatever - does it make them evil people? Does my legagy necessarily make me evil too?  Should I remain faithful to people I've been waiting for for so long or remain faithful to my own values? Are things as black & white as I thought? Is the Resistance so good as I thought? Is Kylo really the monster that I imagined? Etc, etc... Plus, it's also a question of perception of her character and we all have different one. For me, Dark Side Rey makes very much sense because I focus a lot about the way she seems naturally drawn to the DS each time she uses the Force but I can understand that other people have a different perception of her character in TFA

So it's not about saying that dark lineage is so compelling but this is what I - and perhaps other people there - see as added-value for the story in general and - with all respect - I don't see why it should be less valuable than the Rey Kenobi theory or any other of them. Now, I/we could be wrong and it's perfectly fine if other people disagree or TLJ debunks this. To me, this  forum is a nice place to assemble pieces of the puzzle together and try to figure out as best as we can what's come next without any sense of competition.

@reylo1992

Loved your post.

In this "what is interesting for Rey's character" mentality, I think the reason a Kenobi lineage would be interesting for Rey (and for the story) was to put a typical "mentor" archetype/lineage with a more passive role in the center. We could see the story from their perspective.

Obi-Wan was just an ordinary padawan travelling around with his master, everything went to hell, he didn't want to be Anakin's mentor but accepted his fate anyway, and that's it. His passive actions changed the entire direction of the Star Wars universe. In TFA, Rey is this person who shows up in the middle of the conflict and being fundamental to the solution without taking an active role. Rey's passive actions (helping BB-8, flying with the Falcon so Han can track her down, finding the lightsaber, being kidnapped by Kylo Ren for being at the wrong place in the wrong time, being a motivation to Finn return to Starkiller) changed the events of the plot.

She's the protagonist and she kicks a**, but her narrative role is far more passive. Which would fit the Kenobi archetype. It would be interesting to see, for the first time, the perspective of someone who is important to the conflict but is not the cause of it.

Okay I'm assuming that it's Luke who is going to reveal who Rey's parents are but if we go by what Daisy said about the answer raising more questions than answers then Luke going 'Rey, I am your Father.' doesn't supply as many on-going questions as Daisy suggested.

The main questions I see Rey' having if Luke reveals he's her Father are:
Who is my Mother?
Where is my Mother?
Why did you leave me on Jakku?

Surely the answer to any of those questions is going to make Luke look bad and do they really want to tarnish the reputations of all three of the OT?

But if Luke reveals that he knows who one of her grandparents is (Obi-wan/Palpatine/someone else) then wouldn't there be more questions than answers?  Because Luke may not know the answers.

Questions like:

Who was my grandfather/mother?
Who are my parents?
Where are my parents?
Are they still alive?
Why did they leave me?
Were they going to come back?

If Luke only knows who one of her grandparents is then wouldn't that = more questions which fits into what Daisy said.

Whereas if Luke is the answer to the parenting question there would really only be two main questions - who is my Mother and why did you leave me?

So basically Luke being Rey's Father doesn't create nearly as many questions as answers.  Because how on earth would they drag that out for a 3rd movie if Rey is with Luke for a large portion of TLJ.  Surely even the most ardent Reywalker would be annoyed if the questions aren't answered, never mind the GA.

And then of course we have her next confrontation with Kylo.
If Han was Rey's uncle then his death would be about Rey and less so about Kylo.  And IMHO Han's murder is part of Kylo's main story not Rey's.  Yes she can be angry and upset over it but not in a greater personal level because Han was someone she only knew for a short time.  So if they made his death all about Rey's grief over her unknown uncle's death and avenging him then it would take away from Leia, Luke and Kylo.

For me Han was/is a key element in Kylo's story, not Rey's - he was more of a transition player in Rey's story - he got her where she was going/needed to be and create the big confrontation with her 'enemy'.  Besides Rey got her revenge for Han's death in TFA with the snow fight.  There's no need to have it explored more from her POV in TLJ.  Han's death needs to be about Han's son from here on out otherwise what was the point of it?  If it didn't have some transformative impact on Kylo then why have it be patricide?

Basically the jist of this tired ramble is if Rey is a Skywalker by birth then it wouldn't create as many questions as her being a descendent of a different character or new characters.

I feel like I should point out that my post was not directed at anyone. It was a thought that popped into my head regarding Daisy Ridley's comment about the reveal of Rey's parentage creating more questions than answers and how I thought that her being a Reywalker wouldn't create near as many questions as her being a Kenobi/Palpatine or another.

Can a mod come clean up the mess in this thread? It'd be nice to just be able to discuss Rey lineage theories without the sky falling down for one person or other. For once.

ZioRen wrote:Can a mod come clean up the mess in this thread? It'd be nice to just be able to discuss Rey lineage theories without the sky falling down for one person or other. For once.

@ZioRen

We're actively keeping an eye on this thread and did not want to delete posts in an active discussion, although we've been hoping that things would calm down with (hopefully) no hard feelings. Once it seems like things have calmed down, we'll go through and clean things up. Sound okay?

Piper Maru wrote:@reylo1992

Loved your post.

In this "what is interesting for Rey's character" mentality, I think the reason a Kenobi lineage would be interesting for Rey (and for the story) was to put a typical "mentor" archetype/lineage with a more passive role in the center. We could see the story from their perspective.

Obi-Wan was just an ordinary padawan travelling around with his master, everything went to hell, he didn't want to be Anakin's mentor but accepted his fate anyway, and that's it. His passive actions changed the entire direction of the Star Wars universe. In TFA, Rey is this person who shows up in the middle of the conflict and being fundamental to the solution without taking an active role. Rey's passive actions (helping BB-8, flying with the Falcon so Han can track her down, finding the lightsaber, being kidnapped by Kylo Ren for being at the wrong place in the wrong time, being a motivation to Finn return to Starkiller) changed the events of the plot.

She's the protagonist and she kicks a**, but her narrative role is far more passive. Which would fit the Kenobi archetype. It would be interesting to see, for the first time, the perspective of someone who is important to the conflict but is not the cause of it.

@Piper Maru

Thanks for sharing this interpretation Really interesting the way you present Obi-Wan & Rey's narrative roles there.

spacebaby45678 wrote:

panki wrote:Just a clarification- the Mandalorians have a warrior culture and don't really have a royal dynasty......

- The rulers of Mandalore earned their right to rule through battle, not blood in canon. (The leadership duel between Maul and Pre Vizsla was part of this tradition)
- Duchess Satine belonged to a faction of peaceful Mandalorians  that took over in recent Mandalorian history and the warriors were banished to Concordia.
- The Vizsla and Kryze families are different....force sensitivity runs in the Vizsla clan, via Tor Vizsla.

If we're looking for old royal and noble bloodlines, then Count Dooku's family would be the highest probability since they are old royals and the rulers of Serenno.
-A family massacre took place in the EU, wiping most of the family.
- It could explain Rey' dark hair and posh accent. (in case one believes accents are inherited)
- Force sensitivity exists in that family itself.
Also, Dooku was first a jedi and then a sith....so again a lineage of light and dark like the Skywalkers.

The second one is Palpatine who belonged to a noble house on Naboo....Naboo's rulers were elected but Palpatine would still be of noble blood and royal by virtue of being Emperor.
- Again, a family massacre happened when Palpatine killed most of his family when he turned sith- not sure if it is canon or EU though.
- Again explains Rey's accent.
- Again force sensitivity exists in the bloodline.
The Anakin/Vader and Palpatine dynamics have been a huge part of the PT and OT.....it would be interesting to see their descendants put things right in the galaxy after those two caused so much trouble.

And then there is this...



Ederlathh is Palpatine's grand niece in the EU, a young girl who survived the family massacre and was supposed to unite the new Republic and Imperial remnants as the Empress of a constitutional monarchy...but some former imperials sabotaged the plan. It is interesting PH would bring her name up.

Hence, the Anastasia analogy fits better for a Dooku or Palpatine descendant.

@panki

Yeah, I understand... and agree, the Dark Saber/Fight becomes ruler... but Duchess Satine is Royalty per Dave Filoni, but as ruler of Mandalore she was a politician who happened to be Royalty...

In TCW she has a palace and a throne because this is where Royalty hangs out... Satine is obviously a Duchess on her home planet and he father is Duke Adonai a Hebrew name for God.

Born on the Outer Rim world of Kalevala,

The Kalevala or The Kalewala (/ˌkɑːləˈvɑːlə/;[1] Finnish: [ˈkɑle̞ʋɑlɑ]) is a 19th-century work of epic poetry compiled by Elias Lönnrot from Karelian and Finnish oral folklore and mythology.[2]


Now what is weird is that in Imperial Commandos Sabine refers to the Throne of Mandalore sending young people from different clans to be peace keepers... this Throne exists despite Sabine having the Dark Saber in her possession. How does this work? I am not sure honestly.
I think I want to watch the rest of this seasons Rebels to figure out what is really going on and how LF is deciding to tell this story.

@spacebaby45678
I couldn't have said it better myself. I just wish the rest of the season would hurry up and get here. Two more weeks...

Rogue Rey wrote:Okay I'm assuming that it's Luke who is going to reveal who Rey's parents are but if we go by what Daisy said about the answer raising more questions than answers then Luke going 'Rey, I am your Father.' doesn't supply as many on-going questions as Daisy suggested.

The main questions I see Rey' having if Luke reveals he's her Father are:
Who is my Mother?
Where is my Mother?
Why did you leave me on Jakku?

Surely the answer to any of those questions is going to make Luke look bad and do they really want to tarnish the reputations of all three of the OT?

But if Luke reveals that he knows who one of her grandparents is (Obi-wan/Palpatine/someone else) then wouldn't there be more questions than answers?  Because Luke may not know the answers.

Questions like:

Who was my grandfather/mother?
Who are my parents?
Where are my parents?
Are they still alive?
Why did they leave me?
Were they going to come back?

If Luke only knows who one of her grandparents is then wouldn't that = more questions which fits into what Daisy said.

Whereas if Luke is the answer to the parenting question there would really only be two main questions - who is my Mother and why did you leave me?

So basically Luke being Rey's Father doesn't create nearly as many questions as answers.  Because how on earth would they drag that out for a 3rd movie if Rey is with Luke for a large portion of TLJ.  Surely even the most ardent Reywalker would be annoyed if the questions aren't answered, never mind the GA.

And then of course we have her next confrontation with Kylo.
If Han was Rey's uncle then his death would be about Rey and less so about Kylo.  And IMHO Han's murder is part of Kylo's main story not Rey's.  Yes she can be angry and upset over it but not in a greater personal level because Han was someone she only knew for a short time.  So if they made his death all about Rey's grief over her unknown uncle's death and avenging him then it would take away from Leia, Luke and Kylo.

For me Han was/is a key element in Kylo's story, not Rey's - he was more of a transition player in Rey's story - he got her where she was going/needed to be and create the big confrontation with her 'enemy'.  Besides Rey got her revenge for Han's death in TFA with the snow fight.  There's no need to have it explored more from her POV in TLJ.  Han's death needs to be about Han's son from here on out otherwise what was the point of it?  If it didn't have some transformative impact on Kylo then why have it be patricide?

Basically the jist of this tired ramble is if Rey is a Skywalker by birth then it wouldn't create as many questions as her being a descendent of a different character or new characters.

@Rogue Rey

I'm actually kind of hoping it's Kylo Ren that informs her about her lineage. (That means Ren has the answers, or some of them. I just love how throughout TFA he seems to know something about "a girl" and then the "it is you" during the duel scene.) I do think it'll be Luke, though, just because we know she's with him at the beginning of the movie and throughout most of it at least. Maybe they'll both fill her in on her background, like when Kylo shows up on Ach-To he'll give more info that Luke does, or even contradictory info (gasp, Luke lied for some reason!) and that'll be part of the big reveal near the end of the movie. idk. But that's what I'm hoping for. Ugh. I just can't wait for Rey & Ren to be on Ach-To together. I'll be on the edge of my seat waiting for that scene in the theater haha.

Maybe part of his DS training will include a detour to the Imperial Archives for some genealogical research? Because now that he's a Made Man (he's totally the Star Wars version of Christopher Moltisanti), his big evil boss is probably going to order him to kill her because she's now New Jedi and "their" enemy. You know he's gonna want to figure who she is after a lifetime of trying to live up to the LS and DS legacies of previous generations and then gets his a** kicked by a total nobody from nowhere.



One detail that you wonder about, if he dug around enough in her memories to snark on her thinking that Han feels like the father she never had, does that mean it was her mother who left her with Plutt? Like maybe her father was already dead at that point?

I can think of four possible scenarios for Rey finding out about her parents:

1. No one knows who she is, and she finds out via a Force vision of some sort.
   
2. She could find out from Luke, but...unless Luke already knows who Rey is or figures it out pretty quickly (I can think of a few scenarios for this, but most of them are pretty far-fetched and/or rely heavily on coincidence...but hey, it's Star Wars).
   
3. She could find out from Kylo directly--either Snoke figures it out and tells him, or he makes a side trip to the Imperial Archives, as @snufkin suggested.
   
4. She finds out from Kylo when, after they've built up some trust, Rey allows him into her mind again, to hopefully dig through her memories and figure out what happened. (Thanks to @snufkin, also for coming up with this theory.)
   

I kind of expect it to be a combination of 2 or more of these...but I wouldn't be surprised if Luke doesn't really know anything about her.

@ISeeAnIsland if Inception can be a movie where all of the action sequences take place during naps, then I see no reason why the ST can't have at least one high stakes sequence about doing research in the Archives. It can't be a coincidence that you have a character surrounded by a huge mystery involving faint childhood memories whose main foil is a character with the ability to go through other people's memories like microfiche. She's going to let him back in there and it'll be, er, consensual this time.  

I don't think that Luke knows anything about her. Leia might have sent her to him thinking that he might have crossed paths with her parents as fellow Force Users. But he probably didn't. Otherwise, I think any shocking plot twist involving Luke and a new character's backstory will be about what happened with Ben and caused his defection. On Luke's side, he probably got caught up in some bad/destructive LS Jedi doctrine and like his own uncle (and also by Leia's request) withheld the truth of the family's actual patriarch from Ben. On Ben's side, it'll be a combination of the Dark Luke scenario of being reckless, wanting glory and adventure, alienated from his family/society but also getting targeted by Snoke and defection being an easy out of the situation. Rey will find out all of this during her time with the two of them and it'll test who she trusts and allies with. Actually part of what she may have seen in his mind is that his decision to defect, go DS wasn't voluntary. And that deep down, he wants out because he feels trapped and knows Snoke will eventually kill him. Which is part of how she reacts to him rejecting Han's offer and murdering him instead.

If Luke does know her and what happened to her, I could see them explaining it by saying he's had visions about her. The script itself says he's not all that surprised to see her, after all. And Rey is supposed to be crucial to the Force, so a powerful Jedi having visions about her isn't too surprising. Especially one that's been alone and meditating on an island.

@gemini

Such a good catch by you nine months ago..

Kylo Ren, trying to get the map to Luke out of Rey's head.




The star system/map where Luke and the first Jedi Temple is located is shaped just like the tatoo on the forehead of Kenobi concept art from TPM by Ian McCaig



STAR WARS #28 Comic Marvel

The Man looked for Obi Wan on Tatooine... Luke realises the design on the man's forehead resembles a star system and is heading for it....maybe he thinks he can learn how to be a jedi there?




Two things so map is on/in a Kenobi's head in TFA, will Kylo still get the location from Rey later via force connection and get to Act2 at the beginning of EP8?

additionally, GL insisted that when Obi faked his death in TCW and went undercover as a bounty hunter and had his face changed that he should have forehead tatoo...



I thinK it is an old concept by George that has meaning for Obi Wan

Pablo has said that the canon galaxy map is not the same map designed for TFA

Some of the original Kira concept art done by McCaig & Chang for TFA/EP7 have mixed race/ Kira with a forehead tatoo also, I believe this was done when GL went back with a second treatment for EP7 after the Disney sale, he called both Chang & McCaig to his Ranch and worked with them directly.






In the Arndt treatment the map was underwater in the 2nd Death Star in Palps tower




Death Star Trench Underwater – “Guided Imagery” Concept Phase 2013 “So when the adventure’s over, Kira [Rey] finds a hidden map inside the Emperor’s tower of the second Death Star. And the map tells you where the Jedi are and where Luke is hiding.” – McCaig The Art of The Force Awakens

reylo1992 wrote:When @Saracene wrote this post, I don't think he/she intended to tell you that the parallels you've been pointing out don't exist or are irrelevant. He/she probably wanted to ask a legitimate and important question: what is the sense behind this lineage? He/she didn't mean it makes no sense but he/she doesn't see personally what exactly it would bring for Rey's journey and for the plot in general. I think that we all agree it would be heartwarming to have Rey as Obi-Wan's granddaughter. But beyond that: what would it imply concretly for her character development and for the story? I think @Saracene definitely  raises a legitimate and important question there. It's not about shut down a theory but ask how this lineage could impact Rey as a character and the whole plot.

@reylo1992

Thank you. Also, I'm a she

I'm up for any parentage story as long as it's interesting and means something for Rey and her development.

@spacebaby45678

While I agree that the concept art discussion is interesting, the comic panel from the recent SW comic is being taken completely out of context.....

1. The man in the red costume isn't searching for Obi-wan.....he sees Obi-wan using the force by chance on Tatooine and recognizes that he is a force user....all he does is tell Obi-wan to stick to his path and then he leaves.

2. Yoda discovers the boy (and a lot of other primitive tribal people) on a dark planet....he specifically mentions that there is no link to the jedi or the sith....so again no link to Obi-wan.



3. The adults on the dark planet all have the same mark branded on their foreheads. It is called the Mark of the Ancients....and the planet's occupants have been fighting and killing one another.....so it seems likely that some ancient dark force users are the ancestors they are talking about.



4. Gallius Rax in Life Debt also wears scarlet robes and has a strange symbol behind him.....Rax also had a strange symbol on his palm in canon....I would think this boy belongs to the same group as Rax, a dark side group. Here is the quote from Life Debt- There he stands, no longer garbed in an admiral’s uniform but rather in a floor-length robe. Red as blood, that robe.





5. This story in the comic is set before ESB....If Luke actually found a good teacher and learned something, why would he need to train with Yoda in ESB? I think Luke learned something dark before he went to Yoda or it was a false lead and he had a confrontation with some dark side group (which could potentially be connected to Snoke).

6. The mark of ancients is branded on the tribal people's foreheads.....it is similar to how the really ancient sith lords (before Bane's rule of two) had a similar symbol branded on their forehead when they became sith in the EU.



Sith Lord Exar Kun

My own head canon about Rey's parentage is very simple.
The most probable person who knows the truth is Unkar Plutt.

Why everyone wants back to Jakku?

I really do think that we're going back to Jakku in ep IX - for multiple purposes.

Darth_Awakened wrote:
My own head canon about Rey's parentage is very simple.
The most probable person who knows the truth is Unkar Plutt.

Why everyone wants back to Jakku?

I really do think that we're going back to Jakku in ep IX - for multiple purposes.

@Darth_Awakened

I agree.....he knows her parent's identity or he at the very least knows who left her behind on Jakku (in case it wasn't her parents).

ZioRen wrote:If Luke does know her and what happened to her, I could see them explaining it by saying he's had visions about her. The script itself says he's not all that surprised to see her, after all. And Rey is supposed to be crucial to the Force, so a powerful Jedi having visions about her isn't too surprising. Especially one that's been alone and meditating on an island.

@ZioRen

I interpret Luke not surprised/knowing why she's there as a case of mere deduction: he deliberately disappeared, he left a clue who could only be found/activated through the Force and with the help of specific people (San Tekka, R2D2), this girl showed up here after all those years and with my father's lightsaber... So probably things went to hell (and he probably predicted it would), she found me because she's special and had help from my friends, "oh I need to go back now".

Buit it would be plausible if he had visions of her as well.

Darth_Awakened wrote:
My own head canon about Rey's parentage is very simple.
The most probable person who knows the truth is Unkar Plutt.

Why everyone wants back to Jakku?

I really do think that we're going back to Jakku in ep IX - for multiple purposes.

@Darth_Awakened

Well apparently Simon Pegg has reprised his role as Unkar for TLJ so maybe he's got some confessing to do.

I'd love it if Kylo brings him with him to Ahch-to and makes him tell Rey the truth about her parents and abandonment on Jakku, and that the skinless chicken shape seen in some of he shots of Ireland filming is Unkar - but who kills him I dunno - Kylo?  Rey?  Luke?  If it's Rey then perhaps that is when she is tempted by the DS and kills him through anger and it's a revelation to Kylo and Luke and they realise that they need to work together to help her.  Who knows, but it's certainly fun to speculate!!!    

Anyway, I'm not sold on the idea that Luke holds all the answers to who Rey is - he might have an incline or idea. I would love for Kylo to be the one who helps her uncover the painful truth when they start to build trust in one another.  Because I imagine she's not going to be the only one who's weary of him, he's going to be a little cautious of her after slicing up his face, leg and stabbing him in the shoulder - not to mention humiliating him!

And the more I think about it (without sleep fogging my mind) the more I actually believe that Luke doesn't know who Rey is and isn't going to be the one who tells her who she is, more he'll tell her what she is - Force-sensitive - and that will be the basis of their conversations, apart from her trying to get him to go back and 'do the right thing', oh and about his dreamboat nephew!! (Thank you Mark )

Luke in his monk-like robes looks like the furthest thing from a parent, and imo, there is zero foreshadowing that he'd ever sought to have a family. He has clearly devoted his life to learning about the force and passing that knowledge onto others. Nothing in tfa or any of the canon material hints that he was searching for a lost child. He's chosen a path and it's not that of a family man.

Reywalkers believe Rey HAS to be a Skywalker because this is the Skywalker family saga. Except that isn't true at all and they're in deep denial about it.

panki wrote:

Darth_Awakened wrote:
My own head canon about Rey's parentage is very simple.
The most probable person who knows the truth is Unkar Plutt.

Why everyone wants back to Jakku?

I really do think that we're going back to Jakku in ep IX - for multiple purposes.

@Darth_Awakened

I agree.....he knows her parent's identity or he at the very least knows who left her behind on Jakku (in case it wasn't her parents).

@panki

I agree too. I believe it's no coincidence that they released this deleted scene with Plutt where he told her that she has no idea what troubles she is in. Plus the novelization makes it clear that it wasn't enough for him to have the MF. He apparently wanted to have her back on Jakku with him. I got the impression while watching it that Plutt will be a little to Rey what Jabba was to Han.  Plus someone (sorry, I don't remember who) raised an interesting point by speculating that Plutt's accent might indicate that he is actually working for the FO or whatever has an English accent.

If Snoke & Kylo felt Rey "awakening" in the Force, likely Luke did too. He probably doesn't know who she is per se, but he knows that there's now a new FS in that universe. Could also be another one of his visions or depending on how the callbacks to Obi-Wan play out, it could be a Force Ghost Skype call where he's told to keep an eye out for her. I don't want to stir up the hornet's nest again, but there's definitely and deliberately a link being shown between Obi-Wan and Rey. So that may be part of why Luke "recognizes" her. But it's not likely that he knows who she is specifically because of a prior association.

Plutt's coming back as part of tying up the thread about what happened to Rey's parents and how she ended up orphaned and alone on Jakku. It's different from the other celebrity cameos as stormtroopers or bar denizens

1) He appears in the Force Vision for the central life event for Rey and biggest of the ST's Mystery Box
2) He's played by an actor who's not just a super fan, but wrote his Master's Thesis about the OT and Raiders.

Plutt's still a minor pseudo-Dickensian villain, but he's going to be central to part of Rey's origin story. Like Luke, probably doesn't specifically know who she and her parents were. If he did, he probably would've turned Tiny Rey over to the bad guys a long time ago for the reward. Like how it's not hard to guess that part of the fugitive order against her is based on intel from Plutt b/c he's pissed that she stopped him from collecting the bounty on BB-8 and stole the MF. But he likely holds some key knowledge that will be relevant later in the ST.