The Last Jedi: General Discussion

snufkin wrote:Nice review of Bloodline from a comics website that lays out the future of exploring Space Politics in the ST, especially in comparison to the clunky execution in the PT:

Star Wars: Bloodline reveals the hidden history of Leia Organa and the First Order

The Phantom Menace is the most overtly political Star Wars film, and it’s also the one that gets it horribly wrong. The opening crawl reads with the dusty indifference of a bad history book. Throughout the film, there no sense of a grand Galactic Senate; no political daggers shining in the dark. It’s a tepid, impenetrable wheeze, delivered with the stumbling indifference of a sixth grader sniffing his way through a presentation on the industrial revolution. Bloodline shows us what could have been.

It’s sharp, direct, unpredictable. By putting Leia in a position of political influence, it helps rationalise all the stuff that’s happened to her. She’s a war hero, but she doesn't have the comfort of being a Jedi recluse. She has a role to play, as the very public face of the Populists, an unofficial faction of the Galactic Senate. And while Han’s away managing a racing championship, Leia is bound by duty, unable to live the life she wants. It’s a different kind of sacrifice. The central political schism of the book is believable without being boring, and it’s also a smart reminder, as if you needed one, of how malignant political forces can rise without people even noticing. It’s a decent explanation of the First Order, with obvious parallels to historical events that are more fulfilling than simplistic analogy.

Darth Dingbat wrote:Apropos of nothing, but a friendly reminder that we're already in MARCH and yet we know pretty much nothing about the film.

Incredible.

On the bright side, we're already in March! We got through the worst of it already! At this point I'm not sure I'd even mind if we got no spoilers at all before December. That worked out pretty well with RO.

Irina de France wrote:

snufkin wrote:Nice review of Bloodline from a comics website that lays out the future of exploring Space Politics in the ST, especially in comparison to the clunky execution in the PT:

Star Wars: Bloodline reveals the hidden history of Leia Organa and the First Order

The Phantom Menace is the most overtly political Star Wars film, and it’s also the one that gets it horribly wrong. The opening crawl reads with the dusty indifference of a bad history book. Throughout the film, there no sense of a grand Galactic Senate; no political daggers shining in the dark. It’s a tepid, impenetrable wheeze, delivered with the stumbling indifference of a sixth grader sniffing his way through a presentation on the industrial revolution. Bloodline shows us what could have been.

It’s sharp, direct, unpredictable. By putting Leia in a position of political influence, it helps rationalise all the stuff that’s happened to her. She’s a war hero, but she doesn't have the comfort of being a Jedi recluse. She has a role to play, as the very public face of the Populists, an unofficial faction of the Galactic Senate. And while Han’s away managing a racing championship, Leia is bound by duty, unable to live the life she wants. It’s a different kind of sacrifice. The central political schism of the book is believable without being boring, and it’s also a smart reminder, as if you needed one, of how malignant political forces can rise without people even noticing. It’s a decent explanation of the First Order, with obvious parallels to historical events that are more fulfilling than simplistic analogy.

@snufkin

I agree so much with this. It's even one of the reasons why I liked Lady Carise Sindian so much. I've read a lot of historical novels happening in 17th century Versailles that were all about court intrigue, backstabbing your enemies (in a metaphorical sense, of course... unless you're talking about the Affaire des Poisons ;) ), and flattering whatever important figurehead might help your case. Obviously, it was all in the context of Louis XIV and absolute monarchy, but Lady Carise really seemed like a character who had popped out of one of those novels and was put straight into the GFFA. George Lucas really missed an opportunity in TPM: it would have been super easy to insert political intrigue à la Versailles in the context of the Galactic Senate, especially with Padmé and Palpatine around, but it had poor results in the end.

Irving Kershner wrote:It has to be slower and more lyrical. The themes have to be more interior."

Rian Johnson wrote:"I wanted to know more about each of them, and that doesn’t just mean information or backstory. Figure out what’s the most difficult thing each of them could be challenged with now—let’s throw that at them and dig into what really makes them tick by seeing how they handle that."

Daisy Ridley wrote:"Now I look at things and think how are people going to react to them because of the way people have responded to Rey. Carrie calls herself the custodian of Leia, and now I feel like the custodian of Rey. I understand what people loved in VII. I'm carrying that responsibility with me."

Mark Hamill wrote:"When you read The Force Awakens script, the very first words are, 'Luke Skywalker has vanished. But down later in the crawl, and I can’t quote it exactly, I saw on Twitter this morning, 'until Skywalker, the last Jedi, is destroyed,'...And I was wondering why they would use that phrase if it was used that way, because it specifies me. And I think it’s very ambiguous. Is the last Jedi Leia? Is it me?"

Maria Antonietta wrote:Guys, who's got those Luke's concept art pics? The creepy af ones

Darth Dingbat wrote:

Maria Antonietta wrote:Guys, who's got those Luke's concept art pics? The creepy af ones

@Maria Antonietta

I've got the book - I'll scan them for you (or take photos, my scanner might be too small for that book) if nobody else has them saved

Maria Antonietta wrote:

Darth Dingbat wrote:

Maria Antonietta wrote:Guys, who's got those Luke's concept art pics? The creepy af ones

@Maria Antonietta

I've got the book - I'll scan them for you (or take photos, my scanner might be too small for that book) if nobody else has them saved

@Darth Dingbat

I think someone posted them a while back, or it was through pm, I can't remember. If you don't mind

Darth Dingbat wrote:

Maria Antonietta wrote:

Darth Dingbat wrote:

Maria Antonietta wrote:Guys, who's got those Luke's concept art pics? The creepy af ones

@Maria Antonietta

I've got the book - I'll scan them for you (or take photos, my scanner might be too small for that book) if nobody else has them saved

@Darth Dingbat

I think someone posted them a while back, or it was through pm, I can't remember. If you don't mind

@Maria Antonietta

Some of the Luke concepts were online:





Btw, doesn't it look like Luke is in an Ahch-To hut in this one: [/img]

I couldn't find the creepiest one, however. But I'll get it for you.

Darth Dingbat wrote:

Maria Antonietta wrote:

Darth Dingbat wrote:

Maria Antonietta wrote:Guys, who's got those Luke's concept art pics? The creepy af ones

@Maria Antonietta

I've got the book - I'll scan them for you (or take photos, my scanner might be too small for that book) if nobody else has them saved

@Darth Dingbat

I think someone posted them a while back, or it was through pm, I can't remember. If you don't mind

@Maria Antonietta

Some of the Luke concepts were online:





Btw, doesn't it look like Luke is in an Ahch-To hut in this one: [/img]

I couldn't find the creepiest one, however. But I'll get it for you.

spoiler:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:I finally finished Empire's End.

spoiler:

This gave me two possible ideas of what might have happened in the past, with regards to TLJ:

1. Given that Ben and Luke were unreachable due to radiation or whatever it was, I'm thinking that whatever they were doing, they were out in the unknown regions.
2. This would fit very nicely with the "Rey's parents unleashed Snoke" theory. If her parents were fleeing Imperials, it sounds like the remnants of that fleet could very well end up being the ones to unleash Snoke/lead him into the GFFA.

WhatGirl wrote:@iseeanisland

Yes, I think that makes sense about Luke and Ben being someplace that caused them to lose contact. I wonder if Ahch-To is such a place as well. Perhaps that planet has some kind of static barrier that prevents all outside communication, including by means of the Force. It would explain why no one, not even Force users, have been able to find Luke without a physical map. So, not only would Kylo lose contact with the FO, but also with Snoke.

For the first time in his life, no Snoke in his mind. Maybe this will allow Ben to make a different decision than he did on SKB? Just a thought.

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

WhatGirl wrote:@iseeanisland

Yes, I think that makes sense about Luke and Ben being someplace that caused them to lose contact. I wonder if Ahch-To is such a place as well. Perhaps that planet has some kind of static barrier that prevents all outside communication, including by means of the Force. It would explain why no one, not even Force users, have been able to find Luke without a physical map. So, not only would Kylo lose contact with the FO, but also with Snoke.

For the first time in his life, no Snoke in his mind. Maybe this will allow Ben to make a different decision than he did on SKB? Just a thought.

@WhatGirl

Ooh, I love that idea re: Ahch-To.

A couple more thoughts on these theories:

1. What if Luke and Ben were following the same signal that the fleeing Imperials followed 30 years ago? Maybe they had some awareness of Snoke or that they were following the trail to the "source of the dark side of the force" to fight/stop it? Maybe they even ran across the old computer on Jakku that was generating the route? (Given that Sith artifacts were also housed at the Observatory?) Perhaps Luke and Ben were chasing after Snoke, not really knowing who/what they were chasing, and Ben wound up ensnared by Snoke?

2. If Rey's parents were part of the fleeing Imperial remnants and unleashed Snoke, maybe they realized what they had done, and got the heck out of there (there = Unknown regions). Since Jakku was the "last stop" before the UR and Imperials who had fled from there would probably be familiar with it, it might make sense that they'd drop Rey there as they fled or were captured.

Piper Maru wrote:People who are expecting a screwball comedy with Rey, Poe and Finn being the protagonists are going to be disappointed.

I'm also ready for the eventual heartbreak when they reveal Rey's parentage. It's not going to be pretty.