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Birdwoman wrote:What do you all think Luke's role is going to be in TLJ? Do you think he will be the Yoda of the movie?

@Birdwoman

I don't think he'll be Yoda.

If we go off the teaser poster, Luke is going to be Kylo's (and possibly Rey's) antagonist.

I expect grumpy, "get off my lawn" Luke at first, and then after that ????? But not evil Luke.

I just don't think it makes sense to have evil!Luke when our bad side is already defined; two unconnected major evil guys in one story doesn't make sense. Unless it's something stupid like, Luke was behind the First Order this whole time.

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

Birdwoman wrote:What do you all think Luke's role is going to be in TLJ?  Do you think he will be the Yoda of the movie?

@Birdwoman

I don't think he'll be Yoda.

If we go off the teaser poster, Luke is going to be Kylo's (and possibly Rey's) antagonist.

@ISeeAnIsland

I think having Luke as Kylo and/or Rey's antagonist would be a lot more interesting than just having Luke be Rey's teacher.  I guess I've always kind of assumed that he would eventually agree to teach her even if he was very reluctant to do so, but the teaser poster does make it seem like they might be going with something different.  Even if Luke does end up training her, it probably won't be a rehash of the Luke/Yoda thing.  Or at least I hope it's not an exact rehash.

I just hope that whatever Luke's role is that it doesn't overshadow that of the new characters.  Other than Plotgate and Romancegate that's something else that has had me kind of worried, that the whole movie might end up being mostly a Lukefest.  Rian really seems to like Luke.  There's nothing wrong with that, of course, but I really think this new trilogy should focus on the new characters.  I mean, don't get me wrong.  I've been a Star Wars fan since I first saw ANH in the theater way back in 1977, but I still think these new movies should focus on the new characters and their stories.  I really don't want to see them overshadowed.

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

Mrs Ben Solo wrote:I don't know if this was ever posted here but Jason Ward MSW says it's unlikely Luke is evil based on everything he's heard https://twitter.com/makingstarwars/status/903078748307693568

I'm personally not expecting Evil!Luke and it's not something I particularly want to see. Luke being despondent and having gone to Ahch-To to meditate on his failings and the nature of the force, I can see. I imagine his state of mind to be similar to Bran in Game of Thrones, in that he's gained much knowledge and wisdom but he's not sure where he fits into it anymore and maybe feels his presence in the fight wouldn't help matters.

@Mrs Ben Solo

Interesting choice of words, though:

@ISeeAnIsland

I picked up on that too. Then "in what way" Jason?
That is definitely not an outright denial. Now is that because Jason knows something or is only making an educated guess, who knows?

That being all said, as one of the biggest Darker!Luke people on the board, I never thought he was going to be straight "cackling Emperor" evil. Whatever Luke does or is will be complicated. He may be fanatical, he may be crazy, he may be bitter and cold, he may turn out to be in a similar moral position as Kylo, he may even have more faults. I don't know. I just know that Luke seems messed up in every image we get of him and he's downright menacing in the teaser poster while Kylo looks sad and boyish. But that doesn't make him "Evil" with a capital "E". I mean JJ was saying Mark Hamill deserves an Oscar nomination. He won't get an a Oscar nomination for playing the Skywalker version of the Emperor, nor will he get an nomination for playing hero Luke. Luke is going to be a lot more interesting than that.

Kyla Ren wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

Birdwoman wrote:What do you all think Luke's role is going to be in TLJ?  Do you think he will be the Yoda of the movie?

@Birdwoman

I don't think he'll be Yoda.

If we go off the teaser poster, Luke is going to be Kylo's (and possibly Rey's) antagonist.

@ISeeAnIsland

I think having Luke as Kylo and/or Rey's antagonist would be a lot more interesting than just having Luke be Rey's teacher.  I guess I've always kind of assumed that he would eventually agree to teach her even if he was very reluctant to do so, but the teaser poster does make it seem like they might be going with something different.  Even if Luke does end up training her, it probably won't be a rehash of the Luke/Yoda thing.  Or at least I hope it's not an exact rehash.

I just hope that whatever Luke's role is that it doesn't overshadow that of the new characters.  Other than Plotgate and Romancegate that's something else that has had me kind of worried, that the whole movie might end up being mostly a Lukefest.  Rian really seems to like Luke.  There's nothing wrong with that, of course, but I really think this new trilogy should focus on the new characters.  I mean, don't get me wrong.  I've been a Star Wars fan since I first saw ANH in the theater way back in 1977, but I still think these new movies should focus on the new characters and their stories.  I really don't want to see them overshadowed.

@Kyla Ren

The marketing has certainly been a Lukefest, but when Mark Hamill gets asked about his role, he consistently points out that he's a supporting character now.

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

Kyla Ren wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

Birdwoman wrote:What do you all think Luke's role is going to be in TLJ?  Do you think he will be the Yoda of the movie?

@Birdwoman

I don't think he'll be Yoda.

If we go off the teaser poster, Luke is going to be Kylo's (and possibly Rey's) antagonist.

@ISeeAnIsland

I think having Luke as Kylo and/or Rey's antagonist would be a lot more interesting than just having Luke be Rey's teacher.  I guess I've always kind of assumed that he would eventually agree to teach her even if he was very reluctant to do so, but the teaser poster does make it seem like they might be going with something different.  Even if Luke does end up training her, it probably won't be a rehash of the Luke/Yoda thing.  Or at least I hope it's not an exact rehash.

I just hope that whatever Luke's role is that it doesn't overshadow that of the new characters.  Other than Plotgate and Romancegate that's something else that has had me kind of worried, that the whole movie might end up being mostly a Lukefest.  Rian really seems to like Luke.  There's nothing wrong with that, of course, but I really think this new trilogy should focus on the new characters.  I mean, don't get me wrong.  I've been a Star Wars fan since I first saw ANH in the theater way back in 1977, but I still think these new movies should focus on the new characters and their stories.  I really don't want to see them overshadowed.

@Kyla Ren

The marketing has certainly been a Lukefest, but when Mark Hamill gets asked about his role, he consistently points out that he's a supporting character now.

@ISeeAnIsland

Right. And I think Rian flat out said that Rey/Luke won't be Yoda/Luke.

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

Kyla Ren wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

Birdwoman wrote:What do you all think Luke's role is going to be in TLJ?  Do you think he will be the Yoda of the movie?

@Birdwoman

I don't think he'll be Yoda.

If we go off the teaser poster, Luke is going to be Kylo's (and possibly Rey's) antagonist.

@ISeeAnIsland

I think having Luke as Kylo and/or Rey's antagonist would be a lot more interesting than just having Luke be Rey's teacher.  I guess I've always kind of assumed that he would eventually agree to teach her even if he was very reluctant to do so, but the teaser poster does make it seem like they might be going with something different.  Even if Luke does end up training her, it probably won't be a rehash of the Luke/Yoda thing.  Or at least I hope it's not an exact rehash.

I just hope that whatever Luke's role is that it doesn't overshadow that of the new characters.  Other than Plotgate and Romancegate that's something else that has had me kind of worried, that the whole movie might end up being mostly a Lukefest.  Rian really seems to like Luke.  There's nothing wrong with that, of course, but I really think this new trilogy should focus on the new characters.  I mean, don't get me wrong.  I've been a Star Wars fan since I first saw ANH in the theater way back in 1977, but I still think these new movies should focus on the new characters and their stories.  I really don't want to see them overshadowed.

@Kyla Ren

The marketing has certainly been a Lukefest, but when Mark Hamill gets asked about his role, he consistently points out that he's a supporting character now.

@ISeeAnIsland

That's true, and I find it very interesting that Mark always seems to say he's just a supporting character now but everyone else seems to want to make a point of saying that he will have a very major important role.  I mean, I think it's totally possible to have a character be both supporting and have an important role to play in a story.  But the marketing does make it seems like TLJ will be a Lukefest from start to finish.

Kyla Ren wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

Kyla Ren wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

Birdwoman wrote:What do you all think Luke's role is going to be in TLJ?  Do you think he will be the Yoda of the movie?

@Birdwoman

I don't think he'll be Yoda.

If we go off the teaser poster, Luke is going to be Kylo's (and possibly Rey's) antagonist.

@ISeeAnIsland

I think having Luke as Kylo and/or Rey's antagonist would be a lot more interesting than just having Luke be Rey's teacher.  I guess I've always kind of assumed that he would eventually agree to teach her even if he was very reluctant to do so, but the teaser poster does make it seem like they might be going with something different.  Even if Luke does end up training her, it probably won't be a rehash of the Luke/Yoda thing.  Or at least I hope it's not an exact rehash.

I just hope that whatever Luke's role is that it doesn't overshadow that of the new characters.  Other than Plotgate and Romancegate that's something else that has had me kind of worried, that the whole movie might end up being mostly a Lukefest.  Rian really seems to like Luke.  There's nothing wrong with that, of course, but I really think this new trilogy should focus on the new characters.  I mean, don't get me wrong.  I've been a Star Wars fan since I first saw ANH in the theater way back in 1977, but I still think these new movies should focus on the new characters and their stories.  I really don't want to see them overshadowed.

@Kyla Ren

The marketing has certainly been a Lukefest, but when Mark Hamill gets asked about his role, he consistently points out that he's a supporting character now.

@ISeeAnIsland

That's true, and I find it very interesting that Mark always seems to say he's just a supporting character now but everyone else seems to want to make a point of saying that he will have a very major important role.  I mean, I think it's totally possible to have a character be both supporting and have an important role to play in a story.  But the marketing does make it seems like TLJ will be a Lukefest from start to finish.

@Kyla Ren

To me it's simple. Luke is probably the biggest mystery to the GA. We barely know anything about him, and this is the first time we will see him on screen since 1983. Of course they will market the s*** out of him. Plot wise, he maybe a supporting character, but for Lucasfilm, it's much easier to sell the film this way.

SoloSideCousin wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

Kyla Ren wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

Birdwoman wrote:What do you all think Luke's role is going to be in TLJ?  Do you think he will be the Yoda of the movie?

@Birdwoman

I don't think he'll be Yoda.

If we go off the teaser poster, Luke is going to be Kylo's (and possibly Rey's) antagonist.

@ISeeAnIsland

I think having Luke as Kylo and/or Rey's antagonist would be a lot more interesting than just having Luke be Rey's teacher.  I guess I've always kind of assumed that he would eventually agree to teach her even if he was very reluctant to do so, but the teaser poster does make it seem like they might be going with something different.  Even if Luke does end up training her, it probably won't be a rehash of the Luke/Yoda thing.  Or at least I hope it's not an exact rehash.

I just hope that whatever Luke's role is that it doesn't overshadow that of the new characters.  Other than Plotgate and Romancegate that's something else that has had me kind of worried, that the whole movie might end up being mostly a Lukefest.  Rian really seems to like Luke.  There's nothing wrong with that, of course, but I really think this new trilogy should focus on the new characters.  I mean, don't get me wrong.  I've been a Star Wars fan since I first saw ANH in the theater way back in 1977, but I still think these new movies should focus on the new characters and their stories.  I really don't want to see them overshadowed.

@Kyla Ren

The marketing has certainly been a Lukefest, but when Mark Hamill gets asked about his role, he consistently points out that he's a supporting character now.

@ISeeAnIsland

Right. And I think Rian flat out said that Rey/Luke won't be Yoda/Luke.

@SoloSideCousin

Right, and there have been some vague "there will be training"-type comments that make me wonder if Kylo won't ultimately be the one to train Rey. I think it's probably pretty unlikely to happen in TLJ (given how many other storylines we know are going to be crammed in), but with the way they've danced/deflected around the "training" assumptions, I can't help but to expect something unexpected there.

EchoBase wrote:

I changed my mind, I want to see Rey and Kylo in this.

@EchoBase

I LOVE the Rocky movies and this scene is one of my favorite training scenes. It's a bit cheesy but I also loved how they compared their individual training sessions.

Man Without A Star wrote:

Kyla Ren wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

Kyla Ren wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

Birdwoman wrote:What do you all think Luke's role is going to be in TLJ?  Do you think he will be the Yoda of the movie?

@Birdwoman

I don't think he'll be Yoda.

If we go off the teaser poster, Luke is going to be Kylo's (and possibly Rey's) antagonist.

@ISeeAnIsland

I think having Luke as Kylo and/or Rey's antagonist would be a lot more interesting than just having Luke be Rey's teacher.  I guess I've always kind of assumed that he would eventually agree to teach her even if he was very reluctant to do so, but the teaser poster does make it seem like they might be going with something different.  Even if Luke does end up training her, it probably won't be a rehash of the Luke/Yoda thing.  Or at least I hope it's not an exact rehash.

I just hope that whatever Luke's role is that it doesn't overshadow that of the new characters.  Other than Plotgate and Romancegate that's something else that has had me kind of worried, that the whole movie might end up being mostly a Lukefest.  Rian really seems to like Luke.  There's nothing wrong with that, of course, but I really think this new trilogy should focus on the new characters.  I mean, don't get me wrong.  I've been a Star Wars fan since I first saw ANH in the theater way back in 1977, but I still think these new movies should focus on the new characters and their stories.  I really don't want to see them overshadowed.

@Kyla Ren

The marketing has certainly been a Lukefest, but when Mark Hamill gets asked about his role, he consistently points out that he's a supporting character now.

@ISeeAnIsland

That's true, and I find it very interesting that Mark always seems to say he's just a supporting character now but everyone else seems to want to make a point of saying that he will have a very major important role.  I mean, I think it's totally possible to have a character be both supporting and have an important role to play in a story.  But the marketing does make it seems like TLJ will be a Lukefest from start to finish.

@Kyla Ren

To me it's simple. Luke is probably the biggest mystery to the GA. We barely know anything about him, and this is the first time we will see him on screen since 1983. Of course they will market the s*** out of him. Plot wise, he maybe a supporting character, but for Lucasfilm, it's much easier to sell the film this way.

@Man Without A Star

And it might just be a matter of perspective too. Sometimes a supporting character can influence the plot in major ways but not have as much screen time or dialogue and be as developed over the course of the whole movie. Maybe MH sees it as not as big of a part in comparison but to others like KK it's still very significant overall. Or also audience perspective. Sometimes for me personally supporting characters have become the most memorable or my favorite for whatever reason.

The antis are still denying that Kylo is a protagonist and just ignore everything that Rian has tweeted or said in interviews. They seem to think they know more about TLJ than Rian

Maybe it's from growing up in a region steeped in Old West/Gold Rush history, but my brain automatically goes towards Luke being like one of those old gunfighter types in movies like Cat Ballou, The Shootist, The Misfits, or Unforgiven. Not the bad guy, but dark/damaged/melancholy after a lifetime of living by a certain code. Usually, part of that character's arc is facing off against a younger, more hot-headed character as both foil and a cautionary tale. Which is also a motif for the frequently mentioned samurai genre. Or it's a bit of theme in the original movie, at least in having the light antagonism (and one of the absolute best parts) of Obi-Wan as the old school figure versus Han's shoot first, no mumbo jumbo, what's in it for me? philosophy.

ETA - it's a trope, the Retired Gunfighter. And Obi-Wan is mentioned as an example for film characters. And BTW, somebody has gone in and edited out the references to both Villainous Crush and changed Bridal Carry to "non-romantic" : P

There's been discussion about Luke trying to figure out if he's just this pawn of the Force. With that in mind, what if Luke simply concludes that The Force has placed Rey's destiny, whatever it is, with Kylo? And he sends her off to him at the end of the film? That would be divisive.

But looking at Jason's answer, it does seem to be a non-denial. Not evil. Maybe just doing something that will make The Force Kids try to stop him.

snufkin wrote:Maybe it's from growing up in a region steeped in Old West/Gold Rush history, but my brain automatically goes towards Luke being like one of those old gunfighter types in movies like Cat Ballou, The Shootist, The Misfits, or Unforgiven. Not the bad guy, but dark/damaged/melancholy after a lifetime of living by a certain code. Usually, part of that character's arc is facing off against a younger, more hot-headed character as both foil and a cautionary tale. Which is also a motif for the frequently mentioned samurai genre. Or it's a bit of theme in the original movie, at least in having the light antagonism (and one of the absolute best parts) of Obi-Wan as the old school figure versus Han's shoot first, no mumbo jumbo, what's in it for me? philosophy.

ETA - it's a trope, the Retired Gunfighter. And Obi-Wan is mentioned as an example for film characters. And BTW, somebody has gone in and edited out the references to both Villainous Crush and changed Bridal Carry to "non-romantic" : P

@snufkin LMAO there is no such thing as a non-romantic bridal carry between a young, beautified man and a young, beautified woman. Or between a "monster" and a beautiful young woman. Someone got triggered by that entry.

MeadowofAshes wrote:

snufkin wrote:Maybe it's from growing up in a region steeped in Old West/Gold Rush history, but my brain automatically goes towards Luke being like one of those old gunfighter types in movies like Cat Ballou, The Shootist, The Misfits, or Unforgiven. Not the bad guy, but dark/damaged/melancholy after a lifetime of living by a certain code. Usually, part of that character's arc is facing off against a younger, more hot-headed character as both foil and a cautionary tale. Which is also a motif for the frequently mentioned samurai genre. Or it's a bit of theme in the original movie, at least in having the light antagonism (and one of the absolute best parts) of Obi-Wan as the old school figure versus Han's shoot first, no mumbo jumbo, what's in it for me? philosophy.

ETA - it's a trope, the Retired Gunfighter. And Obi-Wan is mentioned as an example for film characters. And BTW, somebody has gone in and edited out the references to both Villainous Crush and changed Bridal Carry to "non-romantic" : P

@snufkin LMAO there is no such thing as a non-romantic bridal carry between a young, beautified man and a young, beautified woman. Or between a "monster" and a beautiful young woman. Someone got triggered by that entry.

@MeadowofAshes

Lol, some anti must've pulled strings to become admin at that tropes website just to change it.

It was fine for the last 21 months and then now its non romantic?

@MeadowofAshes - Somebody wants to keep the film's interpretation from "a certain point of view." Which can't fool me, I've watched enough soap operas and telenovellas to know what that type of move means for the characters and story!  There's also something about "May not be evil" which the statement that him killing Han blows that concept to Hell. Somebody's going to likely have a hard time when the next movie comes out and their conclusions get disproved.

@Rei of Sunshine - They also took out "villainous crush." It's like those stories about old Soviet history books where people would literally be erased out if they fell out of favor with the authorities.

snufkin wrote:@MeadowofAshes - Somebody wants to keep the film's interpretation from "a certain point of view." Which can't fool me, I've watched enough soap operas and telenovellas to know what that type of move means for the characters and story!  There's also something about "May not be evil" which the statement that him killing Han blows that concept to Hell. Somebody's going to likely have a hard time when the next movie comes out and their conclusions get disproved.

@Rei of Sunshine - They also took out "villainous crush." It's like those stories about old Soviet history books where people would literally be erased out if they fell out of favor with the authorities.

@snufkin

People go so far just to prove a point or win an argument... sigh... Why can't they just wait for the movie to see who's right?

snufkin wrote:Maybe it's from growing up in a region steeped in Old West/Gold Rush history, but my brain automatically goes towards Luke being like one of those old gunfighter types in movies like Cat Ballou, The Shootist, The Misfits, or Unforgiven. Not the bad guy, but dark/damaged/melancholy after a lifetime of living by a certain code. Usually, part of that character's arc is facing off against a younger, more hot-headed character as both foil and a cautionary tale. Which is also a motif for the frequently mentioned samurai genre. Or it's a bit of theme in the original movie, at least in having the light antagonism (and one of the absolute best parts) of Obi-Wan as the old school figure versus Han's shoot first, no mumbo jumbo, what's in it for me? philosophy.

ETA - it's a trope, the Retired Gunfighter. And Obi-Wan is mentioned as an example for film characters. And BTW, somebody has gone in and edited out the references to both Villainous Crush and changed Bridal Carry to "non-romantic" : P

@snufkin

I just found this on TV Tropes right now:

• "Though highly debated and bit ambiguous at the time of writing this, The Force Awakens exhibits this through the interactions of Kylo Ren and Rey. Kylo Ren seems a little too interested in Rey, as he takes her for the map's contents instead of taking BB-8—who has the literal and physical map inside of him. He even carries Rey away bridal-style. By contrasting Poe and Rey's interrogations, it is obvious Kylo Ren is much more gentle with Rey, going as far as showing her his face. Snoke even picks up on it in the adult novelization by accusing Kylo Ren of having compassion for her."
  
  

@Lily Snape - I've heard of people battling over Wikipedia entries, so maybe this shouldn't be surprising. Though calling it highly debated still seems ridiculous & given the comments in the past week by the next film's director, it's sounding less and less ambiguous.

Rei of Sunshine wrote:

MeadowofAshes wrote:

snufkin wrote:Maybe it's from growing up in a region steeped in Old West/Gold Rush history, but my brain automatically goes towards Luke being like one of those old gunfighter types in movies like Cat Ballou, The Shootist, The Misfits, or Unforgiven. Not the bad guy, but dark/damaged/melancholy after a lifetime of living by a certain code. Usually, part of that character's arc is facing off against a younger, more hot-headed character as both foil and a cautionary tale. Which is also a motif for the frequently mentioned samurai genre. Or it's a bit of theme in the original movie, at least in having the light antagonism (and one of the absolute best parts) of Obi-Wan as the old school figure versus Han's shoot first, no mumbo jumbo, what's in it for me? philosophy.

ETA - it's a trope, the Retired Gunfighter. And Obi-Wan is mentioned as an example for film characters. And BTW, somebody has gone in and edited out the references to both Villainous Crush and changed Bridal Carry to "non-romantic" : P

@snufkin LMAO there is no such thing as a non-romantic bridal carry between a young, beautified man and a young, beautified woman. Or between a "monster" and a beautiful young woman. Someone got triggered by that entry.

@MeadowofAshes

Lol, some anti must've pulled strings to become admin at that tropes website just to change it.

It was fine for the last 21 months and then now its non romantic?

@Rei of Sunshine

I think http://tvtropes.org/ is one of those sites where anyone can sign up and edit articles.  Someone will probably edit the article again soon to show how the bridal carry and villainous crush are romantic tropes that prove Reylo will be canon.

snufkin wrote:Maybe it's from growing up in a region steeped in Old West/Gold Rush history, but my brain automatically goes towards Luke being like one of those old gunfighter types in movies like Cat Ballou, The Shootist, The Misfits, or Unforgiven. Not the bad guy, but dark/damaged/melancholy after a lifetime of living by a certain code. Usually, part of that character's arc is facing off against a younger, more hot-headed character as both foil and a cautionary tale. Which is also a motif for the frequently mentioned samurai genre. Or it's a bit of theme in the original movie, at least in having the light antagonism (and one of the absolute best parts) of Obi-Wan as the old school figure versus Han's shoot first, no mumbo jumbo, what's in it for me? philosophy.

ETA - it's a trope, the Retired Gunfighter. And Obi-Wan is mentioned as an example for film characters. And BTW, somebody has gone in and edited out the references to both Villainous Crush and changed Bridal Carry to "non-romantic" : P

@snufkin

If the ST returns to the Saga tradition of using parts of The Searchers ( 1956)  as inspiration,  I think Uncle Luke is more like John Wayne's Uncle Ethan.

"In The Searchers, Ethan Edwards is a person who doesn’t belong anywhere, the outsider, a man doomed to “wander on the wind.” As the story unfolds, the thin line between obsession and revenge, the opposite poles of “civilization” and “wilderness” become totally blurred.
Dark and jaded"
https://sydfield.com/film-analysis/the-searchers-a-look-back/


Personally, I prefer Luke to be a crazy shaman type, I really hope that is what they are going for. This would also bring the Saga back to it's roots as Carlos Castaneda's work was a major influence on George Lucas and basically where he derived his idea's of "the force" from. 

"Lucas had by now simplified the mysticism in his script. Obi-Wan Kenobi would be a guardian of the wisdom of the Jedi knights and the force, a mysterious power "that binds the universe together". Lucas had found the inspiration for the idea in a story in Carlos Castaneda’s Tales Of Power, in which a Mexican Indian mystic, Don Juan, described a "life force" (Empire Building, page 62) "The idea of using another person, perhaps an alien, for Luke to play off of came up during story meetings. George Lucas and Leigh Brackett thought that the alien could be an Indian desert type, very childlike even though he’s an old man" (Annotated Screenplays, page 167)"
In addition to this childlike aspect of both characters we also have their immense power, and awe-inspiring, magical abilities to take into account. Of interest also, is that "Lucas and Brackett had lengthy discussions about Luke’s training with Yoda and decided to turn the lessons into proverbs and commandments,"

What stuck in my mind is the scene in The Searchers where Jeffrey Hunter is forced to shield Natalie Wood from John Wayne who was about to shoot her for the almighty crime of being forced into marriage with a Comanche. I can see a similar scene with Rey shielding Kylo - but oddly I now have this image of Leia holding the gun and saying something like: "He killed his father, he's not my son anymore."