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@spacebaby45678 and @motherofpearl1 - I think you guys are probably right that the best guess we can make (and maybe to answer @Kylo Men's up thread question) is that Luke will turn out to be like Ethan in The Searchers. Though the mental image of Leia trying to shoot her son, maybe from that BTS photo of her and Rey *if* Ben returns with her to Crait, damn that would be something. Other angle that sticks in my mind, the whole business that Luke supposedly treated Ben like he was The Chosen One and Solo Jr cracked like an over-stressed episode of Dance Moms. @panki pointed out awhile back that because we know from Bloodline that the family lineage of Dad=Vader was kept secret, people likely assumed that he was murdered in the big purge. So if the whole Chosen One prophecy which was the central part of the OT and PT and their family history was kept a big secret (that he did accomplish it, just in a scenario out of The Monkey's Paw), then why did Luke feel the need to continue it with Ben? Was it sincere or keeping things from a certain point of view and part of what went wrong?

The other idea I've seen mentioned about the overarching theme for the ST (one which Roger Ebert said he'd love to see for any follow ups to RotJ) is about the nature of the Force itself. Not necessarily the whole midichlorians business, but as this wild force of nature which is erupting after decades of being left fallow. Which they at least are hinting at with the business of an Awakening for both FS leads and maybe why Luke's withdrawn, to let it do what it will w/out interference. Or if it's like one of book I keep mentioning, Susanna Clarke's Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell, because there it's about two schools of magic (controlled/light versus dark/ancient) having to set aside differences and work together in the face of a larger, more sublime force. And Magic in that context is very much like the Force and pretty tightly aligned with Nature. It's at least fun to think about and we'll hopefully have some more concrete answers in less than 3 months (eek!).

snufkin wrote:@Lily Snape - I've heard of people battling over Wikipedia entries, so maybe this shouldn't be surprising. Though calling it highly debated still seems ridiculous & given the comments in the past week by the next film's director, it's sounding less and less ambiguous.

@snufkin

I bet it's going back and forth so quickly that we can't keep up.  People seem to have a lot of time on their hands.  

The changes on the TV tropes article were definitely done by an anti, because the same person who deleted the section about the villainous crush due to "inaccuracy" also added that both Rey and Finn are force-sensitive, but Finn shows it first. Okay...

Forsythia wrote:The changes on the TV tropes article were definitely done by an anti, because the same person who deleted the section about the villainous crush due to "inaccuracy" also added that both Rey and Finn are force-sensitive, but Finn shows it first. Okay...

@Forsythia

That's hilarious! They must be really desperate...

Yes, I couldn't believe it when I read that. I corrected that one now because it was so ridiculous. I'm not sure if I should restore the other tropes because the antis will probably delete them again and I don't want to start an edit war.

Edit: And I have just seen that the reason given for the deletion of the villainous crush trope was "not today reylos"

It's so stupid. Of course villains can have crushes on the good girl/boy. I just haaate it to be honest. And I hate that people want to deny all the things between Kylo and Rey because they personally don't like it. We saw how he treated her differently than others. We saw that he was moved by her. It's simply reality and it ticks me off that some jerks want to edit what happened because they don't like it. And they are pathetic jerks.

Forsythia wrote:Yes, I couldn't believe it when I read that. I corrected that one now because it was so ridiculous. I'm not sure if I should restore the other tropes because the antis will probably delete them again and I don't want to start an edit war.

Edit: And I have just seen that the reason given for the deletion of the villainous crush trope was "not today reylos"

@Forsythia

LOL the antis are running scared.  I think deep down they're really starting to fear that Reylo is going to become canon and they're starting to panic.  I love it!

Forsythia wrote:The changes on the TV tropes article were definitely done by an anti, because the same person who deleted the section about the villainous crush due to "inaccuracy" also added that both Rey and Finn are force-sensitive, but Finn shows it first. Okay...

@Forsythia

When does Finn show he's force sensitive?

Helix wrote:When does Finn show he's force sensitive?

@Helix

They probably think about the moment when Finn looks up at the sky to see the Starkiller beam and we can hear the screams of people. They interpret it as if Finn heard the screams of Hosnian Prime citizens through the Force. Which is BS....Matthew Wood confirmed that the screams are from the folks at Maz's castle.

Antis are downright pathetic at this point....

They said it was in Finn's first scene, where he "panics after sensing the villagers' deaths". I have no idea how a normal reaction to death "shows" that he is force sensitive. But my favourite part is where they said that Finn showed his powers first - as if that made him more worthy than Rey

The most transparent anti of all time. I would suggest editing it back, honestly. It wasn't changed for like 2 years and then all of a sudden someone got uber triggered by it, probably because they just came across it. I doubt the pages are edited that frequently, plus the hypocrisy of removing "Villainous Crush" from a young male villain who bridal carries, stares at and watches the heroine sleep in lieu of "fINn iS foRtH seNthItiVvvveeEE!11!11!!" is just LOLOLOLOL.

Forsythia wrote:Edit: And I have just seen that the reason given for the deletion of the villainous crush trope was "not today reylos"

@Forsythia

Stuff like this makes reylo happening all the sweeter. I hope that same editor will edit it back after 8 or 9.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:The most transparent anti of all time. I would suggest editing it back, honestly. It wasn't changed for like 2 years and then all of a sudden someone got uber triggered by it, probably because they just came across it. I doubt the pages are edited that frequently, plus the hypocrisy of removing "Villainous Crush" from a young male villain who bridal carries, stares at and watches the heroine sleep in lieu of "fINn iS foRtH seNthItiVvvveeEE!11!11!!" is just LOLOLOLOL.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Actually ?I

Rimfaxe96 wrote:

Forsythia wrote:Edit: And I have just seen that the reason given for the deletion of the villainous crush trope was "not today reylos"

@Forsythia

Stuff like this makes reylo happening all the sweeter. I hope that same editor will edit it back after 8 or 9.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Actually I've never had a problem with Finn being FS myself - as long as it isn't an excuse to kill off Rey and/or Kylo.

Forsythia wrote:They said it was in Finn's first scene, where he "panics after sensing the villagers' deaths". I have no idea how a normal reaction to death "shows" that he is force sensitive. But my favourite part is where they said that Finn showed his powers first - as if that made him more worthy than Rey

@Forsythia

Interesting how only the FS ones are seen as 'worthy'.....Finn has plenty of great qualities even without some sort of psychic gift.

motherofpearl1 wrote:

Forsythia wrote:They said it was in Finn's first scene, where he "panics after sensing the villagers' deaths". I have no idea how a normal reaction to death "shows" that he is force sensitive. But my favourite part is where they said that Finn showed his powers first - as if that made him more worthy than Rey

@Forsythia

Interesting how only the FS ones are seen as 'worthy'.....Finn has plenty of great qualities even without some sort of psychic gift.

@motherofpearl1

Exactly. Part of his appeal to me is that he is not Force sensitive.

Man Without A Star wrote:

motherofpearl1 wrote:

Forsythia wrote:They said it was in Finn's first scene, where he "panics after sensing the villagers' deaths". I have no idea how a normal reaction to death "shows" that he is force sensitive. But my favourite part is where they said that Finn showed his powers first - as if that made him more worthy than Rey

@Forsythia

Interesting how only the FS ones are seen as 'worthy'.....Finn has plenty of great qualities even without some sort of psychic gift.

@motherofpearl1

Exactly. Part of his appeal to me is that he is not Force sensitive.

@Man Without A Star

He's the 'Han Solo' of the ST.

I agree with you above ^ about Finn having a lot of value without being force sensitive.
But if Finn was/is force sensitive I guess I don't see how that would threaten or impact Reylo. Both can happen right? So I guess I don't see why that's a valid argument the antis are using.

SheLitAFire wrote:I agree with you above ^ about Finn having a lot of value without being force sensitive.
But if Finn was/is force sensitive I guess I don't see how that would threaten or impact Reylo. Both can happen right? So I guess I don't see why that's a valid argument the antis are using.

@SheLitAFire

I think it's because the 'antis' want someone 'pure' as the main character. Rey is damaged goods because she may very well fall for Kylo.
The idiots forget that there is no such thing as a pure SW character -all of them are shades of grey.
Which reflects real life very well.
I do not want to seem like a Bible basher here but a very wise man once said there's no such thing as a person without sin.
None of the SW characters - including the PT and OT - are perfect.

motherofpearl1 wrote:Actually I've never had a problem with Finn being FS myself - as long as it isn't an excuse to kill off Rey and/or Kylo.

I wouldn't have a problem with Finn being Force sensitive either, but deleting the Villainous crush trope for "inaccuracy" and adding Finn being Force sensitive as a fact when it's not is just really hypocritical I'm surprised they didn't that Rey is Luke's daughter (unless I missed that).

Finn is not FS, lol, seriously. Why did TV Tropes allow that crap when it was debunked 1000 times over? I mena, if antis want him to be the third wheel to Rey and Kylo the Balancers of the Force, sure, whatever, but that's all he can be, the third wheel among FS, not the big deal like he is with the Resistance. I don't quite understand why they are so adamant to shoe-horn him into the storyline where he's given nothing to do but whatever.

Finn has his own quest, and as many here think, I suspect he'll be the one to rally the FO stormtroopers into making a stand against the organisation that stole and brainwashed them.

motherofpearl1 wrote:Finn has his own quest, and as many here think, I suspect he'll be the one to rally the FO stormtroopers into making a stand against the organisation that stole and brainwashed them.

@motherofpearl1

I don't understand why Finn has to be Force sensitive and end up with the heroine to be a compelling character in his own right. Luke Skywalker never got the girl (incest aside).  Han wasn't Force sensitive.  Yet both are iconic to the point where they are household names.  

As far as tvtropes is concerned - I agree.  Someone who edit it back to the way it was before. We'd be doing that anti a favor and saving them from embarrassment.

IoJovi wrote:

motherofpearl1 wrote:Finn has his own quest, and as many here think, I suspect he'll be the one to rally the FO stormtroopers into making a stand against the organisation that stole and brainwashed them.

@motherofpearl1

I don't understand why Finn has to be Force sensitive and end up with the heroine to be a compelling character in his own right. Luke Skywalker never got the girl (incest aside).  Han wasn't Force sensitive.  Yet both are iconic to the point where they are household names.  

As far as tvtropes is concerned - I agree.  Someone who edit it back to the way it was before. We'd be doing that anti a favor and saving them from embarrassment.

@IoJovi

Honestly, it's not the first time I've seen something similar happening. I remember going on TV Tropes prior to seeing TFA and on Rey's character page, there was someone who had put that the end of the movie confirmed that Rey was Luke's daughter.

Totally off topic but.....
Anyone else get a Han Solo/TFA vibe from this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPrvgNEntgA
DO NOT WATCH IF NOT SEEN GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY 2