Re: TLJ ending scene?

by DarthRen Thu 09 Nov 2017, 8:04 am

@vaderito

Not according to MSW. This is some form of the training [followed by her angry shot with a lightsaber from awake trailer] to their knowledge. They could be wrong but in my opinion not sure to go with an absolute certainty om this, that is the hut explosion. I hope it is but only Sith deals in absolutes.

@DeeBee

There might be a cliffhanger, just that we will know where characters stand and who to root for. Nothing about cliffhangers. I thought he said it too, but apparently he didn't. If the movie is close to the tone [Adam's words] and ending to ESB, it ended with the biggest plot twist of them all and many questions raised. Sort of a cliffhanger, from a certain point of view.

by vaderito Thu 09 Nov 2017, 8:28 am

Kylo's there. MSW knows some stuff but doesn't know all.

by snufkin Thu 09 Nov 2017, 11:39 am

The ending I can most likely imagine will be the reaction of the fans who aren't happy with how TLJ played out. Kind of like how at a former job I had at a concert venue, we had a couple of angry audience members storm out over a rant the performer had about politics who yelled something like "I knew we should have bought tickets for [a totally mainstream and opposite direction politically/socially performer]."

Otherwise, my guess is that Ben (and he'll be Ben by then and likely that's what Rey will call him) falls on his sword, primarily because of Rey. It doesn't sound like there'll be any love lost between him and his uncle. But the guilt over killing Han and being forced to spend time with Rey, who according to her code will end up having compassion for the events which led to his fall/betrayal, would be enough to spur him in this direction. And go with the "depends on what you mean by living" comment.

It'd also demonstrate that even if he may inherited the crazy Force powers from Leia, deep down he really takes more after Han in his temperament. Because the whole point of Han's character arc that Kasdan wrote (and keeps hinting at with the Kurosawa line) is that he's always at war between the selfish a**hole side of his personality with having a big heart who will do anything for the people who've earned his love/loyalty. That's what he goes through in ESB, literally sacrificing himself where his greater concern is making sure Leia gets out okay. And that's why he goes on the bridge to reach out to his son, both at Leia's prodding and because he stops running and steps up to his responsibilities as a father. Ben falling on his sword, either metaphorically or literally, could be the ending, both to show how he's changed and also how he has "too much of his father in him." And the cheesy Wendig dialogue between Han and Leia, even if he's not an angel like his mommy hopes, it'd show that he's very much on the side of the angels. t

by DeeBee Thu 09 Nov 2017, 4:37 pm

DarthRen wrote:@vaderito

Not according to MSW. This is some form of the training [followed by her angry shot with a lightsaber from awake trailer] to their knowledge. They could be wrong but in my opinion not sure to go with an absolute certainty om this, that is the hut explosion. I hope it is but only Sith deals in absolutes.

@DeeBee

There might be a cliffhanger, just that we will know where characters stand and who to root for. Nothing about cliffhangers. I thought he said it too, but apparently he didn't. If the movie is close to the tone [Adam's words] and ending to ESB, it ended with the biggest plot twist of them all and many questions raised. Sort of a cliffhanger, from a certain point of view.

@DarthRen

Ohhhh thanks DarthRen - that's good to know! Now I can brace myself for a possible cliffhanger Smile

From a certain point of view? rofl! Smile

by PalmettoBlue Thu 09 Nov 2017, 5:45 pm

snufkin wrote:The ending I can most likely imagine will be the reaction of the fans who aren't happy with how TLJ played out. Kind of like how at a former job I had at a concert venue, we had a couple of angry audience members storm out over a rant the performer had about politics who yelled something like "I knew we should have bought tickets for [a totally mainstream and opposite direction politically/socially performer]."

Otherwise, my guess is that Ben (and he'll be Ben by then and likely that's what Rey will call him) falls on his sword, primarily because of Rey. It doesn't sound like there'll be any love lost between him and his uncle. But the guilt over killing Han and being forced to spend time with Rey, who according to her code will end up having compassion for the events which led to his fall/betrayal, would be enough to spur him in this direction. And go with the "depends on what you mean by living" comment.

It'd also demonstrate that even if he may inherited the crazy Force powers from Leia, deep down he really takes more after Han in his temperament. Because the whole point of Han's character arc that Kasdan wrote (and keeps hinting at with the Kurosawa line) is that he's always at war between the selfish a**hole side of his personality with having a big heart who will do anything for the people who've earned his love/loyalty. That's what he goes through in ESB, literally sacrificing himself where his greater concern is making sure Leia gets out okay. And that's why he goes on the bridge to reach out to his son, both at Leia's prodding and because he stops running and steps up to his responsibilities as a father. Ben falling on his sword, either metaphorically or literally, could be the ending, both to show how he's changed and also how he has "too much of his father in him." And the cheesy Wendig dialogue between Han and Leia, even if he's not an angel like his mommy hopes, it'd show that he's very much on the side of the angels. t

@snufkin

Oh...I think you're right.
I can see him shoving Rey on a ship or away to safety and him staying back to fight off - something/someone. So, we're left with Rey knowing that Ben needs a rescue (and she knows he's alive), and 9 picks up with her going on a rescue mission. Or is that too ESB/RTJ?

by Kylo Men Thu 09 Nov 2017, 6:45 pm

In thinking a bit more about it, I think Frolicking Fizzgig is on to something re: the hand and burning the force tree. It might or might not be the ending. But thematically, Kylo burning the force tree as an act of liberation, then offering his hand to Rey, sounds very dead on to me.

by snufkin Thu 09 Nov 2017, 6:54 pm

@PalmettoBlue - it makes sense that he'll end up throwing himself on his sword, both for her and to atone for the things he's done. And I'll be surprised if they're not separated at the end of TLJ with their relationship/feelings for each other very much up in the air.

by reylo1992 Thu 09 Nov 2017, 9:07 pm

PalmettoBlue wrote:
snufkin wrote:The ending I can most likely imagine will be the reaction of the fans who aren't happy with how TLJ played out. Kind of like how at a former job I had at a concert venue, we had a couple of angry audience members storm out over a rant the performer had about politics who yelled something like "I knew we should have bought tickets for [a totally mainstream and opposite direction politically/socially performer]."

Otherwise, my guess is that Ben (and he'll be Ben by then and likely that's what Rey will call him) falls on his sword, primarily because of Rey. It doesn't sound like there'll be any love lost between him and his uncle. But the guilt over killing Han and being forced to spend time with Rey, who according to her code will end up having compassion for the events which led to his fall/betrayal, would be enough to spur him in this direction. And go with the "depends on what you mean by living" comment.

It'd also demonstrate that even if he may inherited the crazy Force powers from Leia, deep down he really takes more after Han in his temperament. Because the whole point of Han's character arc that Kasdan wrote (and keeps hinting at with the Kurosawa line) is that he's always at war between the selfish a**hole side of his personality with having a big heart who will do anything for the people who've earned his love/loyalty. That's what he goes through in ESB, literally sacrificing himself where his greater concern is making sure Leia gets out okay. And that's why he goes on the bridge to reach out to his son, both at Leia's prodding and because he stops running and steps up to his responsibilities as a father. Ben falling on his sword, either metaphorically or literally, could be the ending, both to show how he's changed and also how he has "too much of his father in him." And the cheesy Wendig dialogue between Han and Leia, even if he's not an angel like his mommy hopes, it'd show that he's very much on the side of the angels. t
@snufkin

Oh...I think you're right.
I can see him shoving Rey on a ship or away to safety and him staying back to fight off - something/someone. So, we're left with Rey knowing that Ben needs a rescue (and she knows he's alive), and 9 picks up with her going on a rescue mission. Or is that too ESB/RTJ?

@PalmettoBlue

I think we can expect something reminiscent to ESB without being a rehash.

Ben being in danger or in whatever state that would require a rescue wouldn't raise the same stakes for the galaxy and franchise than Han. Sure, Han being sacrified by the end of ESB was kinda dramatic but tbh what's the major raised for the overall plot? I mean, the only major stake is that Leia wants her boyfriend back. We know that he's alive by the end of ESB and Lando says that he'll be back. Aside from Leia wanting her boyfriend back, Luke could have perfectly let Han prisoner of Jabba for the eternity, that wouldn't have changed much the course of the movie. In itself, Han's loss ain't a big stake for ROTJ and the OT in general. He would have remained Jabba's prisoner, that wouldn't have changed anything to the main arc of the movie. And personally, if there is one sequence that I REALLY dislike in that franchise is the whole "Han's rescue" sequence: 30 minutes of totally boring stuff that bring absolutely nothing to the main plot (seems like even for the actors it was boring to shot the sequence, no wonder that they put Slave Leia to distract the audience). And Han's loss is solved during the first Act I.

So IF something happens to Ben, I hope that Rian would have the guts to make the GA feel how this loss is dramatic in the context of the entire franchise. If I would be Rian, I would beat the Anti-Kylo to their own game by giving them exactly what they want in TLJ and thus make them realize the consequences for their "don't you dare to touch her, you Abuser" heroine, "don't you dare to kill her, you Murderer" Space mommy, "do not dare to harm him, you Traitor" hero, the Skywalker lineage, the galaxy and the whole franchise.

A (fun) story of Ben's redemption:

Later...

Antis: s***...Rey ain't a Skywalker...But then, who's the Skywalker of the ST?

Kylo doing amazing stuff, saving Mommy, saving Rey, turning his back on Snoke, helping the Resistance, etc...

Antis: Bullshit! I am never gonna forgive that a** for Han's death no matter what! No way that murder, traitor, abuser is the bearer of the great Skywalker legacy