Discussion: Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in TLJ

motherofpearl1 wrote:The thing I like about the ST is how it is full of surprises. You don't expect a stormtrooper to have a conscience. You don't expect the 'villain' to be revealed as young and handsome.You don't expect said villain to be vulnerable and damaged. You don't expect one of the heroes to get killed, and another to turn out as flawed. You don't expect the good looking, cocky pilot to be a jerk. You don't expect the heroine to be a nobody. You don't expect the 'big bad' to get killed off in part 2. The ST has taken all the memorable qualities not only of the original films, but other similar epics and turned them completely around. I have absolutely no idea where IX is going.

Kylo Rey wrote:

SoloSideCousin wrote:

motherofpearl1 wrote:Just found this post on thereylovoid ....it sums up what I think Reys feelings are, although I could be wrong!
              https://interstellaireylo.tumblr.com/post/173173424634/what-he-hoped-for-was-for-two-broken-people-to

@motherofpearl1

I think this poster does a very good job of explaining Kylo's point of view, and how it really does look on a surface level.

I haven't had a chance to watch TLJ since the theatre, even though I own the Bluray, lol, so I will say this with the caveat that I might get mad at Rey all over again once I see it again, lol ... But I think deep down Rey definitely has "a thing" for him, and always did from the second she saw his face. The amount of crying involved, the fixing up for him, her getting into his personal space on the elevator, her rushing to him, her willingness to tell him her story and to reach out to him, the look on her face when he killed Snoke, the way she trusted him in the fight (thigh grab), the intensity of her reaction to the vision all scream that she has serious feelings for him whether she wants them or not.

I think she wants those feelings for Ben Solo, but can't quite deal with the Kylo Ren part of the love match.  I think a lot of that could be put down to immaturity in that she has a very simplistic worldview (good or bad and nothing in between) at this point, and I also think that she is pretty unpracticed with feelings in general except her superpower emotions of anger, grit and denial.

I think her behavior in the Poe comic was a good sign that she starting to see the world ..  and maybe people ... more complexly. If she can learn to see and appreciate nuance, love for the whole package of Kylo/Ben may not be so scary.

@SoloSideCousin

I don't think you're reaching at all. Actions speak louder than words and her actions and body language through the course of TLJ scream attraction but yeah, agreed that she had a thing for him as soon as he unmasked himself for her. There was debate revolving around whether it was simply just surprise and shock over Kylo being a normal looking human and not a scarred or deformed monster or if it was that look. The fact that she pretty much gave him elevator eyes and looked away quickly when she caught him walking towards and looking at her was a sign that she had a crush/attraction towards him though IMO, even if that quickly changed due to the situation. She looked weirdly hopeful for a moment as well when she sees Han confront Kylo on the bridge.

Then even in the beginning of TLJ when she's still in hate mode, she looks transfixed by Kylo when they connect during their first force bond. (Btw, if you watch the FB scenes with headphones, the heavy breathing sounds ridiculously suggestive lol, especially with the absence of other sound and music).

I mean...




And THEN she remembers to shoot him.

Then in the second force bond, her reaction when Kylo turns around even though she should have been expecting it at this point is quite noticeable on rewatches:



That underlying subconscious attraction is there even though she's supposed to be hating him. Definitely something I think Daisy was going for in her performance. I think something really refreshing about their sexual attraction/burgeoning romance is that the obstacles placed in their way aren't the cliche other love interests/love triangles or questioning whether they're attracted to each other (once Rey falls for him, she falls hard and fast), but rather their conflicting views/ideology. They both clearly have feelings for the other and want each other, but they each can't go to the other side yet. Rey's separation of Ben and Kylo as if they were two different people is very simplistic and naive, and something I think she does to make her feelings seem more acceptable. She has to grow and accept both parts of the whole, which is what it's leading to for her in IX, imo. Another period/gothic romance parallel I could see in IX is Rey rejecting the weight of societal expectations and conformity that the Resistance (and antis LOL) will represent by not giving a f**** about what they think about her relationship and doing whatever she wants when it comes to Kylo.

Moonlight13 wrote:I found this on Tumblr and thought it was very interesting (and sad ):
http://madandmisquoted.tumblr.com/post/173457137203/so-im-having-trouble-breathing-because-i-grew-up

ZioRen wrote:

Moonlight13 wrote:I found this on Tumblr and thought it was very interesting (and sad ):
http://madandmisquoted.tumblr.com/post/173457137203/so-im-having-trouble-breathing-because-i-grew-up

@Moonlight13

I was just posting about this, but in the wrong thread haha.

But yeah, this Tumblr user said that when she reads Kylo's lips in this scene, she believes he's mouthing this to himself in this first gif: "It’s okay, you’re alright.” In the second one he says “It’s just Luke”. If she's right, Kylo is trying to reassure/comfort himself because he's terrified.

Birdwoman wrote:Did they show that Hux picked up on the fact that Kylo is terrified of his uncle? I know in the book he made a note of it. Ahhh, I need to go watch that scene again.

ZioRen wrote:

Moonlight13 wrote:I found this on Tumblr and thought it was very interesting (and sad ):
http://madandmisquoted.tumblr.com/post/173457137203/so-im-having-trouble-breathing-because-i-grew-up

@Moonlight13

I was just posting about this, but in the wrong thread haha.

But yeah, this Tumblr user said that when she reads Kylo's lips in this scene, she believes he's mouthing this to himself in this first gif: "It’s okay, you’re alright.” In the second one he says “It’s just Luke”. If she's right, Kylo is trying to reassure/comfort himself because he's terrified.

Darth_Awakened wrote:

ZioRen wrote:

Moonlight13 wrote:I found this on Tumblr and thought it was very interesting (and sad ):
http://madandmisquoted.tumblr.com/post/173457137203/so-im-having-trouble-breathing-because-i-grew-up

@Moonlight13

I was just posting about this, but in the wrong thread haha.

But yeah, this Tumblr user said that when she reads Kylo's lips in this scene, she believes he's mouthing this to himself in this first gif: "It’s okay, you’re alright.” In the second one he says “It’s just Luke”. If she's right, Kylo is trying to reassure/comfort himself because he's terrified.

@ZioRen

Kylo is definitely a vivid image of cold blooded new Supreme Leader of GFFA in that gifs.  In some parallel universe for sure.

For the reminder that how TRUE evil supreme leader looks like when he triumphs:



EDIT: An idea just crossed my mind: is it possible that Ben Solo has never fallen to the dark side completely? In a sense that all his DS predecessors did:

Saracene wrote:I've seen somewhere else that apparently Kylo actually has less overall screentime in TLJ than TFA?

If so, wow it goes to show how impactful his scenes are that I didn't even register it.

Riri wrote:@Saracene
https://www.imdb.com/list/ls027631145/
Nearly everyones screen time gets cut, interestingly Finns is cut by almost a half, Kylos is cut by a few minutes.

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

Birdwoman wrote:Did they show that Hux picked up on the fact that Kylo is terrified of his uncle? I know in the book he made a note of it. Ahhh, I need to go watch that scene again.

@Birdwoman

Yes! I didn't catch Adam mouthing those words until you posted that gif, but the novelization explicitly mentions that Kylo is terrified here.

DeeBee wrote:Good morning. well it's morning where I am at least..
So we have a new entry in the Kylo Ren SW databank! [this is kind of addictive.] The first of many to come  I am guessing..

this is on the main page:

source: https://www.starwars.com/databank/kylo-ren

I've gotta run.. just quickly...
Most interesting to me:
He saw Rey 'an ally in destroying the past he hated' - it is all about destroying the past for him huh.
.. and.. his 'entreaty to rule a new galactic order' - this clears up for me any ambiguity about what Kylo was wanting to lead!
Yes! They chose an image of the thigh grab!!!! Significant no?! I think what they can't put into words at this point (endgame romantic reylo) they've conveyed with choice of image!! At least.. that's my theory.

thoughts anyone?

rawpowah wrote:@DeeBee Thank you for the update! I can't figure out how to access the databank, so I'm thrilled that you're posing all the latest info.

I'm laughing @ "exulted" I guess it was more of an internal thing.

DeeBee wrote:Good morning. well it's morning where I am at least..
So we have a new entry in the Kylo Ren SW databank! [this is kind of addictive.] The first of many to come  I am guessing..

this is on the main page:

source: https://www.starwars.com/databank/kylo-ren

I've gotta run.. just quickly...
Most interesting to me:
He saw Rey 'an ally in destroying the past he hated' - it is all about destroying the past for him huh.
.. and.. his 'entreaty to rule a new galactic order' - this clears up for me any ambiguity about what Kylo was wanting to lead!
Yes! They chose an image of the thigh grab!!!! Significant no?! I think what they can't put into words at this point (endgame romantic reylo) they've conveyed with choice of image!! At least.. that's my theory.

thoughts anyone?