Discussion: TLJ Movie Spoilers/Rumors

DarthRen wrote:

Gemlake wrote:Time travel is interesting. I wonder if that is linked to the machine in Snoke's throne room. Rey is seen almost "guarding" it during the Kylo lightsaber shot.

@Gemlake

Daisy said no time travel and immaculate birth while promoting MOTOE.

@DarthRen

Thank god. Time travel usually leads to severe plot holes. It works fine for Doctor Who where the audience has a lot of suspension of disbelief for the timey-wimey stuff but I would not want it anywhere near TLJ.

Kylo Men wrote:@snufkin
Well, I have been predicting it, and I do think it would make a good story, and I definitely won't be disappointed if it comes to pass (unless Rey really would give up on the romance). So in that sense, I suppose proponent works, even if my shippy little heart would rather see Reylo working together in IX. The idea makes a lot of sense from the trilogy perspective, had Carrie Fisher lived, because then you end up with the Leia-Rey-Kylo dynamic. And then it's very Ygritte-and-Jon-Snow, Ygritte sharpening her arrows and swearing she's going to kill him.

@Kylo Men
I'm also okay with certain Renperor scenarios but it all depends on the execution for me. Martyr for the galaxy would work, IMO. If Kylo goes from selfishly serving his own desires to deciding that the galaxy is so torn that it needs someone to put the pieces back together. He would turn away from Snoke in favour of his own "right" that would still be wrong to Rey, but would be understandable on some level as long as his penultimate goal is galactic peace and unity. It would be more of a 'Pain' from Naruto scenario, which is fuelled by deeper desire for humans beings to bond in the wake of war. I could buy that, but uber villain Vader Kylo is lame af and needs to die. I could see Rian working with the first scenario, but he straight-up said he didn't think there was any point in exploring the character if all we were going to learn was that he's evil and needs to be put down.

As of right now Kylo and Hux team-up sounds like the lamest villain duo imaginable for IX. Hux wouldn't last 5 minutes so it would just be Kylo sulking and getting pissy about having to sit in the Renperor chair and make orders. Personal interests would get in the way in less time than it took to kill Hux and he would soon be agonizing over every decision and trying to get the nearest FN to take over for him so he can chase down Rey with his lightsaber.

Ynqve wrote:

DarthRen wrote:

Gemlake wrote:Time travel is interesting. I wonder if that is linked to the machine in Snoke's throne room. Rey is seen almost "guarding" it during the Kylo lightsaber shot.

@Gemlake

Daisy said no time travel and immaculate birth while promoting MOTOE.

@DarthRen

Thank god. Time travel usually leads to severe plot holes. It works fine for Doctor Who where the audience has a lot of suspension of disbelief for the timey-wimey stuff but I would not want it anywhere near TLJ.

@Ynqve

Not a fan of time travel either. Remember X-Men Days of Future Past.

DarthRen wrote:

Ynqve wrote:

DarthRen wrote:

Gemlake wrote:Time travel is interesting. I wonder if that is linked to the machine in Snoke's throne room. Rey is seen almost "guarding" it during the Kylo lightsaber shot.

@Gemlake

Daisy said no time travel and immaculate birth while promoting MOTOE.

@DarthRen

Thank god. Time travel usually leads to severe plot holes. It works fine for Doctor Who where the audience has a lot of suspension of disbelief for the timey-wimey stuff but I would not want it anywhere near TLJ.

@Ynqve

Not a fan of time travel either. Remember X-Men Days of Future Past.

@DarthRen

Urgh. And I almost wanted to throw up when I realised that one of the writers behind Harry Potter and the cursed child was writing IX. Thankfully he left with Trevorrow.

Ynqve wrote:

DarthRen wrote:

Ynqve wrote:

DarthRen wrote:

Gemlake wrote:Time travel is interesting. I wonder if that is linked to the machine in Snoke's throne room. Rey is seen almost "guarding" it during the Kylo lightsaber shot.

@Gemlake

Daisy said no time travel and immaculate birth while promoting MOTOE.

@DarthRen

Thank god. Time travel usually leads to severe plot holes. It works fine for Doctor Who where the audience has a lot of suspension of disbelief for the timey-wimey stuff but I would not want it anywhere near TLJ.

@Ynqve

Not a fan of time travel either. Remember X-Men Days of Future Past.

@DarthRen

Urgh. And I almost wanted to throw up when I realised that one of the writers behind Harry Potter and the cursed child was writing IX. Thankfully he left with Trevorrow.

@Ynqve

Instead of him we have Chris Terrio who helped writing Justice League which bombed in the box office. Not like JL was a bad movie but undewhelming in parts. I hope they do a good job.

DarthRen wrote:

Ynqve wrote:

DarthRen wrote:

Ynqve wrote:

DarthRen wrote:

Gemlake wrote:Time travel is interesting.  I wonder if that is linked to the machine in Snoke's throne room.  Rey is seen almost "guarding" it during the Kylo lightsaber shot.  

@Gemlake

Daisy said no time travel and immaculate birth while promoting MOTOE.

@DarthRen

Thank god. Time travel usually leads to severe plot holes. It works fine for Doctor Who where the audience has a lot of suspension of disbelief for the timey-wimey stuff but I would not want it anywhere near TLJ.

@Ynqve

Not a fan of time travel either. Remember X-Men Days of Future Past.

@DarthRen

Urgh. And I almost wanted to throw up when I realised that one of the writers behind Harry Potter and the cursed child was writing IX. Thankfully he left with Trevorrow.

@Ynqve

Instead of him we have Chris Terrio who helped writing Justice League which bombed in the box office. Not like JL was a bad movie but undewhelming in parts. I hope they do a good job.

@DarthRen

I prefer to think of him as 'Chris Terrio, who wrote Ben Affleck's Argo.' Much more comforting

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

Kylo Men wrote:@snufkin
Well, I have been predicting it, and I do think it would make a good story, and I definitely won't be disappointed if it comes to pass (unless Rey really would give up on the romance). So in that sense, I suppose proponent works, even if my shippy little heart would rather see Reylo working together in IX. The idea makes a lot of sense from the trilogy perspective, had Carrie Fisher lived, because then you end up with the Leia-Rey-Kylo dynamic. And then it's very Ygritte-and-Jon-Snow, Ygritte sharpening her arrows and swearing she's going to kill him.

@Kylo Men
I'm also okay with certain Renperor scenarios but it all depends on the execution for me. Martyr for the galaxy would work, IMO. If Kylo goes from selfishly serving his own desires to deciding that the galaxy is so torn that it needs someone to put the pieces back together. He would turn away from Snoke in favour of his own "right" that would still be wrong to Rey, but would be understandable on some level as long as his penultimate goal is galactic peace and unity. It would be more of a 'Pain' from Naruto scenario, which is fuelled by deeper desire for humans beings to bond in the wake of war. I could buy that, but uber villain Vader Kylo is lame af and needs to die. I could see Rian working with the first scenario, but he straight-up said he didn't think there was any point in exploring the character if all we were going to learn was that he's evil and needs to be put down.

As of right now Kylo and Hux team-up sounds like the lamest villain duo imaginable for IX. Hux wouldn't last 5 minutes so it would just be Kylo sulking and getting pissy about having to sit in the Renperor chair and make orders. Personal interests would get in the way in less time than it took to kill Hux and he would soon be agonizing over every decision and trying to get the nearest FN to take over for him so he can chase down Rey with his lightsaber.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Yeah, in this Renperor scenario where Kylo kills Snoke and takes over the FO, people conveniently leave out Hux. He's not just gonna sit back and let his fellow colleague who he absolutely hates take over top spot and do nothing about it. He hates him, I'm pretty sure he would have a squad of Stormtroopers or whatever after him immediately. I don't see Rey being fine with that either, especially after teaming up with Kylo against Snoke.

DarthRen wrote:

Ynqve wrote:

DarthRen wrote:

Ynqve wrote:

DarthRen wrote:

Gemlake wrote:Time travel is interesting. I wonder if that is linked to the machine in Snoke's throne room. Rey is seen almost "guarding" it during the Kylo lightsaber shot.

@Gemlake

Daisy said no time travel and immaculate birth while promoting MOTOE.

@DarthRen

Thank god. Time travel usually leads to severe plot holes. It works fine for Doctor Who where the audience has a lot of suspension of disbelief for the timey-wimey stuff but I would not want it anywhere near TLJ.

@Ynqve

Not a fan of time travel either. Remember X-Men Days of Future Past.

@DarthRen

Urgh. And I almost wanted to throw up when I realised that one of the writers behind Harry Potter and the cursed child was writing IX. Thankfully he left with Trevorrow.

@Ynqve

Instead of him we have Chris Terrio who helped writing Justice League which bombed in the box office. Not like JL was a bad movie but undewhelming in parts. I hope they do a good job.

@DarthRen

Haven't seen JL yet, but BvS was an incoherent mess and he wrote parts of that too right? Still, changing Thorne to Terrio is a step in the right direction. I'd take BvS and Argo over the nonsense that is Cursed Child every time.

Reading between the lines of some tweets from a guy who was at the premiere, I am starting to believe those Facebook spoilers are true. Other people (supposedly) in the know also seem to be confirming them. We must be missing some major context, that’s all I can say!

CienaRee wrote:This is a negative review of the movie from a movie blogger:

Star Wars: The Last Jedi is visually sumptuous, thematically rich, but narratively clumsy.

It’s also a movie afraid to follow its most interesting ideas to their logical conclusions.

((The biggest issue is that Kylo Ren is entirely correct, narratively speaking.))
https://twitter.com/Darren_Mooney/status/940209908938616832/photo/1

I'm very curious what he means by the last part because most reviewers have been praising Kylo's arc so is he unhappy that they went in a certain direction with Kylo that he didn't expect?

@CienaRee
This is REALLY interesting and may or may not speak volumes. Honestly, this is all starting to sound like Naruto vs. Sasuke at the end of Shippuden. A clash of ideologies, of reaching the same conclusion through two different methods (achieving world peace from the shadows through control vs. achieving peace through transparency and empathy). One of the issues certain people had with that was, once more, you were able to understand Sasuke's method just as clearly as Naruto's.

This could be more complex and layered than I gave Rian credit for.

And no matter what it sounds like the major conflict between Rey and Kylo = a combination of clashing ideologies and confusing intimate feelings.

They can be out of balance by the end of this one because the ultimate goal is still clear. A balance must be achieved both in the Force and between their ideologies.

@Armadeus

To be honest with him, he only had to re-wrote it or changed it a bit. Comicbook movies are tricky. Not like he was entirely responsible for BvS and JL but certainly not astaller work. I was just going by his recent work but KK knows what she's doing, same goes for JJ. I have utmost confidence in their work and judgement.

@Ynqve

Yep, he did wrote BvS. Probably really was when Snyder tried to put everything into the movie and it become a mess. Writing was average but not the biggest problem this movie had, or DCEU in general has. Hence why they have to make major changes.

Oh absolutely, everything is better than that. Imo they'll do a good job.

Yeah, I'm starting to believe that's what's going to happen. It might be that there's just two opposing sides of a war, instead of one is pure evil (the bad guys) and the other is pure good (the good guys). It might go over some of the audience's head if they don't know who to cheer for, since nothing is black or white anymore. Then again, AD did say he hopes the audience can understand ambiguity.

KrazyForKylo wrote:Reading between the lines of some tweets from a guy who was at the premiere, I am starting to believe those Facebook spoilers are true. Other people (supposedly) in the know also seem to be confirming them. We must be missing some major context, that’s all I can say!

@KrazyForKylo

Wait what? Which facebook spoilers? It's starting to get real hard separating the leaks haha

Time travel was debunked. Next.

From a new, long interview Rian did with the official SW website:

StarWars.com: I’d like to touch on Rey and Kylo Ren a bit, if we can somehow figure out a way. As someone now charged with shepherding the protagonist and the villain of Star Wars for a new generation, what did that responsibility mean to you, and did you have an approach for how you wanted to move their stories forward?

Rian Johnson: With each of them, there were things that I really responded to in The Force Awakens. Both individually as characters, and also in their interaction in the interrogation scene that they have in The Force Awakens. I thought the dynamic between them was very interesting and the opposing forces, flint striking off each other with the two of them, combined with this power on opposite sides that they both share, was very interesting.

It’s not just a big, open study of their characters. It’s a narrative, so another big part of it was figuring out how we feel about each of them coming out of Force Awakens and into this film. Again, it’s not a big canvas. It’s a line that’s going forward and you’re following a path step by step. You know, we hate Kylo’s guts coming into this. [Laughs] He’s interesting because the villain is always interesting, but also because, I think, you can see his flaws and his vulnerabilities.

StarWars.com: And he gets embarrassed.

Rian Johnson: He gets his a** kicked. He has his butt handed to him, absolutely, by someone who should not have been able to hand him his butt. [Laughs] So he’s in a very different place than Vader, but I think we hate him maybe even more than we hate Vader coming into this.

StarWars.com: After the Force Awakens employee screening, I ran into Pablo [Hidalgo of the Lucasfilm Story Group] in the hallway and I said, “Man, I don’t know what you guys are planning. But if you’re planning on redeeming this guy, you have a lot of work to do.”

Rian Johnson: Exactly, which is not to say we’ll redeem him, but I felt like my work with this was to evolve the character from where he’s at, to push him further along, which you always need to do with any character, and, I guess, get inside his head a little bit more. Even to do that, you can’t just say, “Okay, yeah, he killed Han Solo, but he’s a nice guy.” Or, “He had these issues, so you gotta understand…” I mean, you can’t make that appeal. You have to come into it with the knowledge that this guy has some very big strikes against him and you have to work forward with that.

CienaRee wrote:This is a negative review of the movie from a movie blogger:

Star Wars: The Last Jedi is visually sumptuous, thematically rich, but narratively clumsy.

It’s also a movie afraid to follow its most interesting ideas to their logical conclusions.

((The biggest issue is that Kylo Ren is entirely correct, narratively speaking.))
https://twitter.com/Darren_Mooney/status/940209908938616832/photo/1

I'm very curious what he means by the last part because most reviewers have been praising Kylo's arc so is he unhappy that they went in a certain direction with Kylo that he didn't expect?

@CienaRee

This is super intriguing. This is suggesting that this reviewer believes that Kylo and what Kylo perceives he has to do is actually correct, but the narrative portrays him as wrong and punishes him for it. "Greater good" Kylo might be real after all. And if that's the case, then there's always a group of people who debate about these things like "Well Rey/Luke/The Resistance is being naive, and Kylo's methods may be messy but they're getting the job done" etc etc.

Kylo Rey wrote:
Rian Johnson: Exactly, which is not to say we’ll redeem him, but I felt like my work with this was to evolve the character from where he’s at, to push him further along, which you always need to do with any character, and, I guess, get inside his head a little bit more. Even to do that, you can’t just say, “Okay, yeah, he killed Han Solo, but he’s a nice guy.” Or, “He had these issues, so you gotta understand…” I mean, you can’t make that appeal. You have to come into it with the knowledge that this guy has some very big strikes against him and you have to work forward with that.

@Kylo Rey

Interesting. But he's right, even if he turns to the light again he still did a lot of dark, horrible things. Going "nope actually he's a sensitive good guy now and all is forgiven" won't work. Doesn't rule him out as an antihero though.

@Kylo Rey

This is really interesting. Starting to think Kylo as Emperor could be true, if done right. Rian is certainly capable of pulling this off. Quite interesting he might or might not get redeemed. That is up in the air and I imagine a lot of debates will be made on this subject.

Man, I'm starting to believe these leaks. It's just...it fits some things and nobody has been able to definitively debunk. If they're true, we'll have to see how it plays out!

I still think Kylo will ultimately get redeemed and I'll be really, really upset if he doesn't. This is Star Wars, and even Kathleen Kennedy insists it's still about hope and love at its core. I hope nobody loses sight of that.

But if all this is true....wow, get ready for some heated debates!

It seems that Rian is setting the seeds for Kylo’s redemption and it’s up to JJ to either take that path or not. I think Rian has been pretty respectful about leaving space for the next director through his process while also leaving heavy pointers to what makes the most sense narratively, in his opinion.

I always believed that Kylo has strong motivation and purpose.

ZioRen wrote:Man, I'm starting to believe these leaks. It's just...it fits some things and nobody has been able to definitively debunk. If they're true, we'll have to see how it plays out!

@ZioRen
It's the four basic plot elements originally posted to Reddit leaks that could be real IMO, not the Pawn's awful fanfic. He took those four points and ran with them. He is contradicted by the VD and never provided any evidence that he was present at the premier. No pictures, no badge, nothing. There is no reason to believe his nonsense.

The four plot points, however, may be legit, but it's not going to play out the way Pawn or anybody else has described, not based on reactions to the film. "Kylo is super evil" does not jibe with "Kylo Ren is entirely correct, narratively speaking" or people coming out of the movie praising Kylo and Rey's interactions and relationship and shipping it more. It's not just that Kylo is super evil, it's more complicated than that and anybody suggesting otherwise is spewing BS.

Again, the only thing that's really giving me pause is Luke dying in such a stupid way. Like, THAT's what Luke fans have been waiting 30 years to see? The most un-human and ridiculous character death ever depicted on-screen?

Well I came here to steal a cookie from the cookie jar only to find there's nothing but a few crumbs. So I'm kind of relieved. I'm rather impressed without how few spoilers have leaked since the premiere, and also slightly unimpressed with my will power.

But I did want to say that for those who are nervous about the state of Reylo, everything I'm seeing so far looks rather positive. It just sounds like the overt romance won't happen until 9, which is what many here predicted anyway. "We shall see...."

I thought that Kylo might THINK he had a strong purpose, but that it would be portrayed as completely incorrect (AKA "I have to rule the galaxy with an iron fist to make everyone safe).

I thought we were in for 2 years of shipping wars....but redemption vs. anti-redemption fights is too much.