Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

Leia was most likely the first person to introduce Ben to the Force and show him something about the abilities he had. Kind of like a metaphysical version of toliet training. And the two of them being able to at least sense each other is shown when he's in utero in the Empire's End books and the reaction shot of Leia after Han's death in TFA. Her "there's still light in him" line (because it's Leia) has to be more than just the typical mom always thinks her son is still a good boy type of thinking. So it's a plausible detail to have in there,. Just whether or not it will be in there, especially with Leia's part in the rest of the ST up in the air (sad face) who knows?

The logistics of how he gets to Ache-to, there has to be a way of showing him getting the map without it being as convoluted as the original chase/McGuffin for it in the first movie. Especially when the entire point really was to get Rey pulled off of her exile on Jakku and for those two nerds to finally meet. This time around, the point is to get the two of them together and on neutral ground and you can't waste too much exposition time with him chasing after the map part II (unless that 'spoiler' who said he'd be stomping up and down hallways the entire length of the movie is correct).

Also Legos can help fill in the gaps for where the different scenes happen, but it's not like it's going to spoil things such as whatever we learn about the very bad things happened at Uncle Luke's Bible Camp, Rey learns that Luke Skywalker Galactic Knight is actually the Star Wars equivalent of Kid Sheleen, the awkward uncle-nephew reunion, or even whatever conversation Rey and Ben have when they're not trying to kill each other or most likely, Ben's inevitable breakdown when he finally realizes how completely f**ked he is thanks to selling his soul to Snoke/the FO and killing Han. Even if HF was like "bye b*tches, done with this franchise, gotta go kill off Deckard and Indy cause I'm tired of you nerds bothering me," old man Solo is gonna hover around his kid like Hamlet's ghost dad.

@snufkin

Basically, none of the stuff we actually care about!

I listened to ScreenRant's review on that Valerian movie (the one I saw advertised as Star Wars on crack), and the guys said that it was all spectacle with no great story or characters. They also wished that said characters were played by different actors, ouch.

The Legos spoil a bit of the spectacle aspect, which admittedly, many do get psyched about, but   Do Kylo and Leia share a scene or not!?

On a side note, I wonder if evil BB8 hacks resistance BB8, and that's how Kylo gets the map, lol.

@Cowgirlsamurai - I stay the Hell away from Bresson's movies because I'm pretty sure that and Luhrman's version of Romeo and Juliet were two of my earliest trigger experiences with migraines thanks to the noise and spectacle! But yes, the Legos only spoil the spectacle and setting, certainly not the stuff we're actually curious about. Even going into TFA with enough spoilers gleaned from waiting until long after the release, all I knew about the Takodana part was that there was a "here comes the Calvery!" moment courtesy of Poe and Leia. Meanwhile the actually interesting part I was 100% unprepared for.

snufkin wrote:@Cowgirlsamurai - I stay the Hell away from Bresson's movies because I'm pretty sure that and Luhrman's version of Romeo and Juliet were two of my earliest trigger experiences with migraines thanks to the noise and spectacle! But yes, the Legos only spoil the spectacle and setting, certainly not the stuff we're actually curious about. Even going into TFA with enough spoilers gleaned from waiting until long after the release, all I knew about the Takodana part was that there was a "here comes the Calvery!" moment courtesy of Poe and Leia. Meanwhile the actually interesting part I was 100% unprepared for.

@snufkin

Lol, and I was just telling myself about Valerian: either it's going to be amazing and for the ages, either it's going to be a total flop, or either it's going to be quickly forgotten.

It really seems that nowadays, whenever there's something that's not a reboot that comes out, it never seems like it succeeds.

@Irina de France - Anytime I run across a repeat of the Fifth Element on TV, I have flashbacks to how it felt trying to watch that while experiencing my first migraine aura. You couldn't pay me enough money to sit through one of Bresson's movies in the theater after that experience. And I suspect even if my brain wasn't having an electrical storm, I'd still be completely underwhelmed/confused by what was happening on screen.

The "for the ages," it's funny how a lot of movies where that happens, they aren't hits at first. Like it's the rare one, the original Star Wars being the best example, which completely capture popular imagination and change the paradigm. Most of the time they're movies like Blade Runner, which people thought looked amazing, but that they just didn't get. It came and went from its first run, but now it's a cult film that spawned a sequel/re-imagining. Or nowadays, most of the really creative activity goes into television, hence the fan arguments you see about the ST where somebody keeps referencing heavy weight shows like GoT. Because that's more the point of reference.

snufkin wrote:@Irina de France - Anytime I run across a repeat of the Fifth Element on TV, I have flashbacks to how it felt trying to watch that while experiencing my first migraine aura. You couldn't pay me enough money to sit through one of Bresson's movies in the theater after that experience. And I suspect even if my brain wasn't having an electrical storm, I'd still be completely underwhelmed/confused by what was happening on screen.

The "for the ages," it's funny how a lot of movies where that happens, they aren't hits at first. Like it's the rare one, the original Star Wars being the best example, which completely capture popular imagination and change the paradigm. Most of the time they're movies like Blade Runner, which people thought looked amazing, but that they just didn't get. It came and went from its first run, but now it's a cult film that spawned a sequel/re-imagining. Or nowadays, most of the really creative activity goes into television, hence the fan arguments you see about the ST where somebody keeps referencing heavy weight shows like GoT. Because that's more the point of reference.

@snufkin

That's true. Movies that flopped at the box-office like Labyrinth, Brazil, The Big Lebowski, Rocky Horror Picture Show, Heathers, or heck, freaking Citizen Kane and The Wizard of Oz, are cult classics nowadays.

But yeah, let's just say I'm massively curious as to which movies will be considered cult classics in 20-30 years.

@Irina de France - it's funny how already you're starting to see a bit of people flipping from saying that R1 is the "best" new SW movie to starting to appreciate how it's the writing/characterization which gives TFA its edge.

Cowgirlsamurai wrote:

Mrs Ben Solo wrote:I've been pondering on the spoiler about Leia using the force to save herself during an attack, presumably it's the one near the start of the movie on D'Qar. It could be her using it to hold back falling walls/ceiling to keep from being crushed to death, but I also wonder if she senses Kylo there and communicates with him through the force. Maybe hearing his mother's voice snaps him out of the rage/lust for vengeance Snoke has fuelled in him and he realises he's in danger of losing his only surviving parent. It's only speculation on my part but it could be that he leaves the D'Qar fight and heads for Ahch-To. Perhaps (if there is a force bond with Rey) he senses something from her, if she and Luke can feel Leia is in danger through the force.

@Mrs Ben Solo

Could be... I'd love to see Leia show some Force ability, but communicating with Kylo makes sense too. It's be hilarious if she was like, "Ben, cut this Kylo Ren bull**** and come home before I sic the scavenger on you again."

It's also been speculated by someone here that maybe he obtains the actual map to Ahch-To on D'Qar.

Edit: Maybe it was you! I can't find it again. All these TLJ speculation threads are running together in my mind

@Cowgirlsamurai

That was me speculating that Kylo gets the map on D'Qar. It's actually a slight variation on my husband's pet theory on how Kylo gets the map--he's pointed out that there are a lot people in the room when they bring up the map at the end of TFA. All they need to do is capture one of those soldiers, and Kylo gets the map easily--no exposition needed.

Personally, I'd be a little surprised by him being on D'Qar, if only because that seems like a lot of cramming stuff in to the first act for him. And I really do ABHOR the idea of Kylo having anything to do with Leia getting injured. But I'll hold off judgment on that Lego TIE box until we actually know the context. Who knows--maybe he's just in Snoke's star destroyer orbiting the planet, and takes off to Ahch-To from there?

Although I do love the idea of Kylo helping Leia through the Force in some way. If I recall, the Leia-in-a-coma spoiler had Leia using the Force in a "unique" way, which prevented her death. And as @snufkin pointed out, we already have a few examples of Kylo and Leia communicating through the Force already.

@ISeeAnIsland - I can almost see how unless they do an absolute, flat out debunk of Reywalker, some fans would glom on to the idea that any weird Force connection (if you can ignore the sexual subtext) is proof of those two characters being reylated. Because ESB is the first time that type of Force ability is shown, in the 3rd act essentially between two siblings and a child and a parent. Although that does lead to the question, if Leia's been shown to be able to use that ability to connect with both her brother and son, why hasn't she been able to track down both of their asses and drag them home? But if there's some kinda Space Skype between Rey and Ben/Kylo, that's going to be unique compared to what's been shown before (if two unrelated people being able to do that was in the PT, it must have sailed over my head).

snufkin wrote:@ISeeAnIsland - I can almost see how unless they do an absolute, flat out debunk of Reywalker, some fans would glom on to the idea that any weird Force connection (if you can ignore the sexual subtext) is proof of those two characters being reylated. Because ESB is the first time that type of Force ability is shown, in the 3rd act essentially between two siblings and a child and a parent. Although that does lead to the question, if Leia's been shown to be able to use that ability to connect with both her brother and son, why hasn't she been able to track down both of their asses and drag them home? But if there's some kinda Space Skype between Rey and Ben/Kylo, that's going to be unique compared to what's been shown before (if two unrelated people being able to do that was in the PT, it must have sailed over my head).

@snufkin

Right. And as far as my husband goes, he's not in the Reylated camp--he saw the blatant UST and does actually think that Rey and Kylo are going to "hook up" at some point...so he's not typical GA. But he thinks that the Force bond theory is too convoluted and doesn't know how they'd show it on screen.

@ISeeanIsland - yeah too much detail you get into midichlorian territory. Maybe they'll roll with it like Carrie Fisher and Stephen Colbert talked about it, mostly Leia could sense and reacting to 'something's wrong.' She even had a face for it.

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

Cowgirlsamurai wrote:

Mrs Ben Solo wrote:I've been pondering on the spoiler about Leia using the force to save herself during an attack, presumably it's the one near the start of the movie on D'Qar. It could be her using it to hold back falling walls/ceiling to keep from being crushed to death, but I also wonder if she senses Kylo there and communicates with him through the force. Maybe hearing his mother's voice snaps him out of the rage/lust for vengeance Snoke has fuelled in him and he realises he's in danger of losing his only surviving parent. It's only speculation on my part but it could be that he leaves the D'Qar fight and heads for Ahch-To. Perhaps (if there is a force bond with Rey) he senses something from her, if she and Luke can feel Leia is in danger through the force.

@Mrs Ben Solo

Could be... I'd love to see Leia show some Force ability, but communicating with Kylo makes sense too. It's be hilarious if she was like, "Ben, cut this Kylo Ren bull**** and come home before I sic the scavenger on you again."

It's also been speculated by someone here that maybe he obtains the actual map to Ahch-To on D'Qar.

Edit: Maybe it was you! I can't find it again. All these TLJ speculation threads are running together in my mind

@Cowgirlsamurai

That was me speculating that Kylo gets the map on D'Qar. It's actually a slight variation on my husband's pet theory on how Kylo gets the map--he's pointed out that there are a lot people in the room when they bring up the map at the end of TFA. All they need to do is capture one of those soldiers, and Kylo gets the map easily--no exposition needed.

Personally, I'd be a little surprised by him being on D'Qar, if only because that seems like a lot of cramming stuff in to the first act for him. And I really do ABHOR the idea of Kylo having anything to do with Leia getting injured. But I'll hold off judgment on that Lego TIE box until we actually know the context. Who knows--maybe he's just in Snoke's star destroyer orbiting the planet, and takes off to Ahch-To from there?

Although I do love the idea of Kylo helping Leia through the Force in some way. If I recall, the Leia-in-a-coma spoiler had Leia using the Force in a "unique" way, which prevented her death. And as @snufkin pointed out, we already have a few examples of Kylo and Leia communicating through the Force already.

@ISeeAnIsland

Holy sith I just thought of something.  If Kylo is indeed on or near D'Qar (which is up in the air at this point), what if he just can't go through with hurting his family a second time, and actually HELPS her?  It'd explain why he's by himself in his LEGO set - after he helps her (because Patricide isn't all that it's cracked up to be) he takes off because he's essentially gone against the FO.  And that's when he decides to head to Ach-To through whatever means he had to finally obtain the map.

I disagree with your husband about the Forcebond being convoluted. That would be nearly as easy to convey as it was in ESB between Luke and Leia. It would only require a couple of short scenes - and wala! He's able to locate her...

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

snufkin wrote:@ISeeAnIsland - I can almost see how unless they do an absolute, flat out debunk of Reywalker, some fans would glom on to the idea that any weird Force connection (if you can ignore the sexual subtext) is proof of those two characters being reylated. Because ESB is the first time that type of Force ability is shown, in the 3rd act essentially between two siblings and a child and a parent. Although that does lead to the question, if Leia's been shown to be able to use that ability to connect with both her brother and son, why hasn't she been able to track down both of their asses and drag them home? But if there's some kinda Space Skype between Rey and Ben/Kylo, that's going to be unique compared to what's been shown before (if two unrelated people being able to do that was in the PT, it must have sailed over my head).

@snufkin

Right. And as far as my husband goes, he's not in the Reylated camp--he saw the blatant UST and does actually think that Rey and Kylo are going to "hook up" at some point...so he's not typical GA. But he thinks that the Force bond theory is too convoluted and doesn't know how they'd show it on screen.

@ISeeAnIsland

I think a force bond could be explained easily enough by Rey and Kylo having moments where they hear each other's voices and see/feel each other through the force. You could then have Snoke and/or Luke pick up on it and give a bit of brief exposition about how it happened when they "found the force together". Luke has researched Jedi/force lore so he'd surely be aware that non-related people could forge a bond. I don't know how forthcoming Kylo would be with Snoke about what happened on Starkiller but it would hardly matter if Snoke can read his mind or is powerful enough to sense and recognise the bond before Kylo even realises what's going on.

I'm actually not all that convinced Rey and Kylo will have a force bond. But I do think it wouldn't be too difficult a concept for the GA to grasp if they did go down that route. The Reywalker stuff isn't going to go away any time soon anyway, not if her parentage is still left hanging after TLJ. We know from experience that they can make it as plain as day that Rey isn't Luke or Leia's daughter and some people will still say "Ah, yes, but..."

DarthRen wrote:If Crait is third act, first act probably no Kylo and Rey scenes, well it doesn't look from the little what we know that they'll be spending much of time together.

@DarthRen

Whatever is going on with Rey and Kylo seems to be on lockdown.  Even if the guesses people have are correct, we are missing a lot, and they could still spend plenty of time together.

Rey and Kylo could go hard R lovin' on screen for 20 minutes and someone would still find a way to make Reywalker work.

Irina de France wrote:

snufkin wrote:@Irina de France - Anytime I run across a repeat of the Fifth Element on TV, I have flashbacks to how it felt trying to watch that while experiencing my first migraine aura. You couldn't pay me enough money to sit through one of Bresson's movies in the theater after that experience. And I suspect even if my brain wasn't having an electrical storm, I'd still be completely underwhelmed/confused by what was happening on screen.

The "for the ages," it's funny how a lot of movies where that happens, they aren't hits at first. Like it's the rare one, the original Star Wars being the best example, which completely capture popular imagination and change the paradigm. Most of the time they're movies like Blade Runner, which people thought looked amazing, but that they just didn't get. It came and went from its first run, but now it's a cult film that spawned a sequel/re-imagining. Or nowadays, most of the really creative activity goes into television, hence the fan arguments you see about the ST where somebody keeps referencing heavy weight shows like GoT. Because that's more the point of reference.

@snufkin

That's true. Movies that flopped at the box-office like Labyrinth, Brazil, The Big Lebowski, Rocky Horror Picture Show, Heathers, or heck, freaking Citizen Kane and The Wizard of Oz, are cult classics nowadays.

But yeah, let's just say I'm massively curious as to which movies will be considered cult classics in 20-30 years.

@Irina de France

And _The Princess Bride_.  My husband never saw _Heathers_, something I realized when I quoted it randomly a few weeks ago (he teaches high school, and there was a relevant quote, to which he responded by just looking baffled.) And I had this realization that if you didn't see _Heathers_ when you were fairly close to high school age, it would probably be like my uncle reading _On the Road_ for the first time at 57-- you're just not going to get it.  That said, I read _On the Road_ at 20 and felt too old already.   Those guys were idiots.  I think I may have been born too old.  

Yeah, I think a Force bond (or whatever they call it) would be just as easy to explain on screen as your average telepathic link. No long-winded exposition necessary. Of course, you'd have to explain how it came about...

Not TLJ news but how amazing is the coming SW theme park?!

https://www.instagram.com/p/BWg2E9mgT9O/?taken-by=disneyland

@Helix - they could show those two boning on screen and pledging eternal devotion while Luke walks in with a copy of her birth certificate proving that she's someone else's kid and likely there would still be angry fans insisting that it's a misdirection and that she's Luke's kid (or "LF has ruined Star Wars. It's all JJ's fault!").

@LilySnape - I always get blank stares anytime I've said "I'm sorry Dave, I can't do that" when trying to fix something technology related. Guess more people know about The Shining because it's Jack Nicolson with an axe?

@Darth Dingbat - maybe that's why it's at D23 instead of ComicCon, to tie in with the theme park preview?

snufkin wrote:@Helix - they could show those two boning on screen and pledging eternal devotion while Luke walks in with a copy of her birth certificate proving that she's someone else's kid and likely there would still be angry fans insisting that it's a misdirection and that she's Luke's kid (or "LF has ruined Star Wars. It's all JJ's fault!").

@LilySnape - I always get blank stares anytime I've said "I'm sorry Dave, I can't do that" when trying to fix something technology related. Guess more people know about The Shining because it's Jack Nicolson with an axe?

@Darth Dingbat - maybe that's why it's at D23 instead of ComicCon, to tie in with the theme park preview?

@snufkin

Luke really gets an eye-full, eh? That must be the long discussed 'exploding hut' scene.

@snufkin: very likely! I also hope SWC 2019 will coincide with the opening of that theme park, because that would be a truly amazing experience.

Anyone knows at which time the panel at D23 will be tomorrow?

Forgive me if this has already been posted but there are some interesting titbits, although annnoyingly it's Mike Zeroh again!

http://movieweb.com/star-wars-last-jedi-kylo-ren-ben-solo-flashback/

motherofpearl1 wrote:Forgive me if this has already been posted but there are some interesting titbits, although annnoyingly it's Mike Zeroh again!

http://movieweb.com/star-wars-last-jedi-kylo-ren-ben-solo-flashback/

@motherofpearl1


there are never any interesting tidbits from Movieweb, The Express and Moviepilot. Those sites are like Zeroh and mostly get "scoops" from him. Don't give them clicks.

Helix wrote:Rey and Kylo could go hard R lovin' on screen for 20 minutes and someone would still find a way to make Reywalker work.

@Helix

@Disney executives, if you're out there reading this - know that I'd pay 100€ per theater ticket if the movie has a scene like this and still watch it at least 10 times.