Force Bond Logistics & Implications

SheLitAFire wrote:

SoloSideCousin wrote:

I agree with all of this. The bond formed in the interrogation, but then Snoke read Kylo's mind and "boosted the signal."

@SoloSideCousin

I still want to know why he flips the eff out when he hears about Rey & BB-8 "girl?! what girl?!"
And the "it is you" significance. (I think that's even more significant than my previous comment)
So the bond was formed during the interrogation, but he knew something beforehand? I think that's one of the things JJ thought might get discussed more in VIII.

@SheLitAFire

This could change, but with the context that we have now with TLJ, I'm thinking that the "It is you" is Kylo recognizing that Rey is his light-side counterpart.

There was that bit from Snoke in the throne room where he mentions that both he and Kylo knew that as Kylo's dark side powers grew, one day his counterpart in the light would arise.

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

SheLitAFire wrote:

SoloSideCousin wrote:

I agree with all of this. The bond formed in the interrogation, but then Snoke read Kylo's mind and "boosted the signal."

@SoloSideCousin

I still want to know why he flips the eff out when he hears about Rey & BB-8 "girl?! what girl?!"
And the "it is you" significance. (I think that's even more significant than my previous comment)
So the bond was formed during the interrogation, but he knew something beforehand? I think that's one of the things JJ thought might get discussed more in VIII.

@SheLitAFire

This could change, but with the context that we have now with TLJ, I'm thinking that the "It is you" is Kylo recognizing that Rey is his light-side counterpart.

There was that bit from Snoke in the throne room where he mentions that both he and Kylo knew that as Kylo's dark side powers grew, one day his counterpart in the light would arise.

@ISeeAnIsland

ok, yeah, this makes sense. I like it. It still feels fairy tale-esque to me, despite most of VIII not having that fairy tale flare that we got in VII

@SoloSideCousin - it was a very clever way of pulling together and wrapping those narrative threads. The business about feeling an Awakening in TFA was both in reference to Rey and in Snoke realizing that eventually somebody equally powerful in the Light would emerge. Which was Rey and for whatever reason, his plan was to murder her because her power was a threat to his agenda. Which ha, turned out that was very true because going after her did lead to his demise. Agreed, the connection was forged between the two of them from the beginning because Kylo picked up on her trauma/abandonment because he recognized those emotions. And from there, the Force connection kicked in, they linked up, and then Snoke figured out what was happening and started boosting the signal. But he didn't create it, it didn't end with his death, and the gloating about it (and the voyeurism over something very intimate and special between the two of them) plus hurting Kylo's bae = Kylo finally gets the nerve/motivation to end him.

Also there were the different details in TFA which suggested a connection had already happened between the two of them. Like the "Hearts beating in synch" descriptive audio text for the Feeling the Force together, how she looks back towards where he fell (man, we never got the scene of Hux rescuing him and sniping at him), or even the deleted bit where she's starting into space like she hears something.

SheLitAFire wrote:

SoloSideCousin wrote:

I agree with all of this. The bond formed in the interrogation, but then Snoke read Kylo's mind and "boosted the signal."

@SoloSideCousin

I still want to know why he flips the eff out when he hears about Rey & BB-8 "girl?! what girl?!"
And the "it is you" significance. (I think that's even more significant than my previous comment)
So the bond was formed during the interrogation, but he knew something beforehand? I think that's one of the things JJ thought might get discussed more in VIII.

@SheLitAFire

You're right! You're absolutely right, and I even said it in a podcast I think, lol. Information overload, lol. Yes, there is evidence in both novelization that there was some sort of dreamlike connection between going back years before they meet on Takodana. There is also the "recognized something familiar in each other" note from the script. We'll see if JJ picks up that ball again.

SoloSideCousin wrote:

SheLitAFire wrote:

SoloSideCousin wrote:

I agree with all of this. The bond formed in the interrogation, but then Snoke read Kylo's mind and "boosted the signal."

@SoloSideCousin

I still want to know why he flips the eff out when he hears about Rey & BB-8 "girl?! what girl?!"
And the "it is you" significance. (I think that's even more significant than my previous comment)
So the bond was formed during the interrogation, but he knew something beforehand? I think that's one of the things JJ thought might get discussed more in VIII.

@SheLitAFire

You're right! You're absolutely right, and I even said it in a podcast I think, lol. Information overload, lol. Yes, there is evidence in both novelization that there was some sort of dreamlike connection between going back years before they meet on Takodana. There is also the "recognized something familiar in each other" note from the script. We'll see if JJ picks up that ball again.

@SoloSideCousin

And in the junior novelization, there was the cryptic voice that Rey hears sometimes on Jakku...

And that dream (that was a late addition) where someone tells her "Stay here sweetheart, I'll be back for you" while she hears the sounds of battle and lightsabers all around. We know now for certain that that wasn't her father.

SheLitAFire wrote:

SoloSideCousin wrote:

I agree with all of this. The bond formed in the interrogation, but then Snoke read Kylo's mind and "boosted the signal."

@SoloSideCousin

I still want to know why he flips the eff out when he hears about Rey & BB-8  "girl?! what girl?!"
And the "it is you" significance. (I think that's even more significant than my previous comment)
So the bond was formed during the interrogation, but he knew something beforehand? I think that's one of the things JJ thought might get discussed more in VIII.

@SheLitAFire

That would be explained by the forceback where kylo seems to suddenly see Rey,  like a shared vision... Something  which rj just didint even link back to lol

But its awful similar to what is happening in tlj.. Both being in eachothers space and memory and even surroundings

It was happening in tfa as well

rey09 wrote:
I would love to see this force bond just grow more powerful as their emotions run higher. I think the hand touching is the first step. What if they would be able to embrace one another? I love the imagery of Rey putting her forehead on a sad Kylo. 

And yes, my mind has been in the gutter- if we can get hand sex...maybe the real deal too?  XD

@rey09

I´m convinced it will get stronger.
And the other thing: JJ says he will be bold, who knows... I remind Titanic. All you need are 2 young people, a steamy window and a hand suddenly touching this wnindow. That´s all you need to know. Just saying.

thescavenger wrote:
If their hands touched and they saw each other's futures, and if they split the lightsaber in half and the room exploded.. I couldn't even begin to imagine what would happen if they have sex. Like yes Kylo, you will destroy everything - the Sith, Snoke, Skywalker, the Rebellion, etc. - without even having to try.

@thescavenger lmao omg yes, I think so much around them will just quite literally explode!!

the ways of force are inscrutable
Now what do we know about the force bond?
It all started in The force awakening during the interrogation scene. They could read in the other's mind.
Now according to the novel, Rey would have seen kylo in her dreams or nightmares, in the movie kylo says "the girl I've heard so much " it's possible that the bond had started from that moment, maybe we'll find out
in the last Jedi
I thought that strength has a will . Snoke saw that they had a connection, maybe small, but he amplified that connection and here I believe it is a gradual process :
the first time they could see only them, not the surroundings
the second time Kylo feels the rain on himself
the third time shirtless scene , "I'd rather not do this right now,” “Yeah, me too" both do not know how to control it
the fourth time, both touch their hands or fingers, Kylo literally goes to her and Luke sees him but he knows it's a projection.
now here, it seems that kylo controls the bond for the first time. Rey is there, still, looking at him. And when they both touch each other, they have visions.
the fifth and last I think, kylo is in the old rebel base and feels the connection, sees Rey and she sees him. Closes the door with a rumble. With the closing of the door, one can speculate maybe she closed the bond, or maybe not

in any case I'm sure that this connection will come back in the last episode. Two episodes with this connection and the third without, is not logical
Also on twitter Rian gave us a clue about what this connection could mean , a red thread, now we all know what the red thread is

Teo oswald wrote:the ways of force are inscrutable
Now what do we know about the force bond?
It all started in The force awakening during the interrogation scene. They could read in the other's mind.
Now according to the novel, Rey would have seen kylo in her dreams or nightmares, in the movie kylo says "the girl I've heard so much " it's possible that the bond had started from that moment, maybe we'll find out
in the last Jedi
I thought that strength has a will . Snoke saw that they had a connection, maybe small, but he amplified that connection and here I believe it is a gradual process :
the first time they could see only them, not the surroundings
the second time Kylo feels the rain on himself
the third time shirtless scene , "I'd rather not do this right now,” “Yeah, me too" both do not know how to control it
the fourth time, both touch their hands or fingers, Kylo literally goes to her and Luke sees him but he knows it's a projection.
now here, it seems that kylo controls the bond for the first time. Rey is there, still, looking at him. And when they both touch each other, they have visions.
the fifth and last I think, kylo is in the old rebel base and feels the connection, sees Rey and she sees him. Closes the door with a rumble. With the closing of the door, one can speculate maybe she closed the bond, or maybe not

in any case I'm sure that this connection will come back in the last episode. Two episodes with this connection and the third without, is not logical
Also on twitter Rian gave us a clue about what this connection could mean , a red thread, now we all know what the red thread is

@Teo oswald

I'm starting to think it was fated from the beginning, but the connection properly began when Rey touched the lightsaber in Maz's Castle, with the force visions showing Kylo in it. And then right after that was Maz's talks about her future path and someone waiting for her. I feel like that was the moment she was put on the path towards meeting Kylo Ren. The Force Awoke when Rey touched the saber and connected her and him.

@thescavenger yes, it's true, it may have started there

lauvamp wrote:Speaking of Force Bonds....

https://ohtze.tumblr.com/post/137090484408/my-one-and-only-or-why-force-bonds-are-so

@lauvamp

What a great post. People in [Reylo] fandom are so smart. OTOH, I can't believe people didn't see their clear intention behind some scenes in TFA: the parallel between the interrogation scenes, him bridal style carrying her, him princely taking his mask off, etc.

Atenais wrote:

lauvamp wrote:Speaking of Force Bonds....

https://ohtze.tumblr.com/post/137090484408/my-one-and-only-or-why-force-bonds-are-so

@lauvamp

What a great post. People in [Reylo] fandom are so smart. OTOH, I can't believe people didn't see their clear intention behind some scenes in TFA: the parallel between the interrogation scenes, him bridal style carrying her, him princely taking his mask off, etc.

@Atenais

I thought the same! Everything including the character design look SO similar....

That's a very vague answer and Matt didn't confirm or debunk anything, so it's possible (and IMO very likely) that Snoke was lying and that the bond still exists. I guess we'll just have to wait for episode IX to get a more conclusive answer.

Forsythia wrote:

That's a very vague answer and Matt didn't confirm or debunk anything, so it's possible (and IMO very likely) that Snoke was lying and that the bond still exists. I guess we'll just have to wait for episode IX to get a more conclusive answer.

@Forsythia

I’m thinking Snoke did lie about creating the Bond. I think he only knew about it and lied to use it to his advantage. It still exists at the end of TLJ, well after he’s dead and that’s what counts. Ben and Rey can’t ignore each other, and that’s what’s important!

IoJovi wrote:

Forsythia wrote:

That's a very vague answer and Matt didn't confirm or debunk anything, so it's possible (and IMO very likely) that Snoke was lying and that the bond still exists. I guess we'll just have to wait for episode IX to get a more conclusive answer.

@Forsythia

I’m thinking Snoke did lie about creating the Bond. I think he only knew about it and lied to use it to his advantage. It still exists at the end of TLJ, well after he’s dead and that’s what counts. Ben and Rey can’t ignore each other, and that’s what’s important!

@IoJovi

I'll need to see TLJ again, but from what I recall in TFA, there's a point in the interrogation where there minds are meeting and you hear sort of a "ka-thunk" sound. I've long interpretted that as being when the "connection" was formed.

In my head, you kind of hear the same (or a similar sound) again the first time that they figure out that the bond exists in TLJ.

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

IoJovi wrote:

Forsythia wrote:

That's a very vague answer and Matt didn't confirm or debunk anything, so it's possible (and IMO very likely) that Snoke was lying and that the bond still exists. I guess we'll just have to wait for episode IX to get a more conclusive answer.

@Forsythia

I’m thinking Snoke did lie about creating the Bond. I think he only knew about it and lied to use it to his advantage. It still exists at the end of TLJ, well after he’s dead and that’s what counts. Ben and Rey can’t ignore each other, and that’s what’s important!

@IoJovi

I'll need to see TLJ again, but from what I recall in TFA, there's a point in the interrogation where there minds are meeting and you hear sort of a "ka-thunk" sound. I've long interpretted that as being when the "connection" was formed.

In my head, you kind of hear the same (or a similar sound) again the first time that they figure out that the bond exists in TLJ.

@ISeeAnIsland

I’m seeing all kinds of theories on tumblr tonight as to when exactly the Forcebond was formed in TFA. It ranges anywhere from years before they met on Takadona to the final snow fight. I personally think the interrogation is the most likely place since that’s when they were really having a go at it, pushing and pulling at each other (that sounds dirty, lol). I don’t believe at all that Snoke manufactured it himself.

IoJovi wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

IoJovi wrote:

Forsythia wrote:

That's a very vague answer and Matt didn't confirm or debunk anything, so it's possible (and IMO very likely) that Snoke was lying and that the bond still exists. I guess we'll just have to wait for episode IX to get a more conclusive answer.

@Forsythia

I’m thinking Snoke did lie about creating the Bond. I think he only knew about it and lied to use it to his advantage. It still exists at the end of TLJ, well after he’s dead and that’s what counts. Ben and Rey can’t ignore each other, and that’s what’s important!

@IoJovi

I'll need to see TLJ again, but from what I recall in TFA, there's a point in the interrogation where there minds are meeting and you hear sort of a "ka-thunk" sound. I've long interpretted that as being when the "connection" was formed.

In my head, you kind of hear the same (or a similar sound) again the first time that they figure out that the bond exists in TLJ.

@ISeeAnIsland

I’m seeing all kinds of theories on tumblr tonight as to when exactly the Forcebond was formed in TFA. It ranges anywhere from years before they met on Takadona to the final snow fight. I personally think the interrogation is the most likely place since that’s when they were really having a go at it, pushing and pulling at each other (that sounds dirty, lol). I don’t believe at all that Snoke manufactured it himself.

@IoJovi

I'm thinking in the interrogation scene too. That's when Rey's powers unlocked. And she only used powers after Kylo used them. The closest she showed any Force sensitivity pre-Ben was when his saber, which he clearly used to defend himself when he thought Luke was attacking him, called to her. Which makes me think he had a Force vision about her first.

Darth Dementor wrote:

IoJovi wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

IoJovi wrote:

Forsythia wrote:

That's a very vague answer and Matt didn't confirm or debunk anything, so it's possible (and IMO very likely) that Snoke was lying and that the bond still exists. I guess we'll just have to wait for episode IX to get a more conclusive answer.

@Forsythia

I’m thinking Snoke did lie about creating the Bond. I think he only knew about it and lied to use it to his advantage. It still exists at the end of TLJ, well after he’s dead and that’s what counts. Ben and Rey can’t ignore each other, and that’s what’s important!

@IoJovi

I'll need to see TLJ again, but from what I recall in TFA, there's a point in the interrogation where there minds are meeting and you hear sort of a "ka-thunk" sound. I've long interpretted that as being when the "connection" was formed.

In my head, you kind of hear the same (or a similar sound) again the first time that they figure out that the bond exists in TLJ.

@ISeeAnIsland

I’m seeing all kinds of theories on tumblr tonight as to when exactly the Forcebond was formed in TFA. It ranges anywhere from years before they met on Takadona to the final snow fight. I personally think the interrogation is the most likely place since that’s when they were really having a go at it, pushing and pulling at each other (that sounds dirty, lol). I don’t believe at all that Snoke manufactured it himself.

@IoJovi

I'm thinking in the interrogation scene too. That's when Rey's powers unlocked. And she only used powers after Kylo used them. The closest she showed any Force sensitivity pre-Ben was when his saber, which he clearly used to defend himself when he thought Luke was attacking him, called to her. Which makes me think he had a Force vision about her first.

@Darth Dementor

This also makes me stand by my theory that the saber itself is a stand in for Ben Solo. From the time it called to her in Maz’s basement to the time it broke it in two in the throne room, it’s represents him and him alone. TLJ ends with Rey trying to figure out how to take those broken pieces and put them back together again.

Darth Dementor wrote:

IoJovi wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

IoJovi wrote:

Forsythia wrote:

That's a very vague answer and Matt didn't confirm or debunk anything, so it's possible (and IMO very likely) that Snoke was lying and that the bond still exists. I guess we'll just have to wait for episode IX to get a more conclusive answer.

@Forsythia

I’m thinking Snoke did lie about creating the Bond. I think he only knew about it and lied to use it to his advantage. It still exists at the end of TLJ, well after he’s dead and that’s what counts. Ben and Rey can’t ignore each other, and that’s what’s important!

@IoJovi

I'll need to see TLJ again, but from what I recall in TFA, there's a point in the interrogation where there minds are meeting and you hear sort of a "ka-thunk" sound. I've long interpretted that as being when the "connection" was formed.

In my head, you kind of hear the same (or a similar sound) again the first time that they figure out that the bond exists in TLJ.

@ISeeAnIsland

I’m seeing all kinds of theories on tumblr tonight as to when exactly the Forcebond was formed in TFA. It ranges anywhere from years before they met on Takadona to the final snow fight. I personally think the interrogation is the most likely place since that’s when they were really having a go at it, pushing and pulling at each other (that sounds dirty, lol). I don’t believe at all that Snoke manufactured it himself.

@IoJovi

I'm thinking in the interrogation scene too. That's when Rey's powers unlocked. And she only used powers after Kylo used them. The closest she showed any Force sensitivity pre-Ben was when his saber, which he clearly used to defend himself when he thought Luke was attacking him, called to her. Which makes me think he had a Force vision about her first.

@Darth Dementor

Quick question.. I was thinking Rey used the force when she watched on the monitor as Finn was dragged away by the Rathtar. She focused all her energy and them tapped the monitor, making the door close on the rathtar's limb releasing Finn. Of course she had no idea how she had done it at that time..
Maybe I misunderstood that moment? If I have can someone explain to me what it was? thanks!

DeeBee wrote:

Darth Dementor wrote:

IoJovi wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

IoJovi wrote:

Forsythia wrote:

That's a very vague answer and Matt didn't confirm or debunk anything, so it's possible (and IMO very likely) that Snoke was lying and that the bond still exists. I guess we'll just have to wait for episode IX to get a more conclusive answer.

@Forsythia

I’m thinking Snoke did lie about creating the Bond. I think he only knew about it and lied to use it to his advantage. It still exists at the end of TLJ, well after he’s dead and that’s what counts. Ben and Rey can’t ignore each other, and that’s what’s important!

@IoJovi

I'll need to see TLJ again, but from what I recall in TFA, there's a point in the interrogation where there minds are meeting and you hear sort of a "ka-thunk" sound. I've long interpretted that as being when the "connection" was formed.

In my head, you kind of hear the same (or a similar sound) again the first time that they figure out that the bond exists in TLJ.

@ISeeAnIsland

I’m seeing all kinds of theories on tumblr tonight as to when exactly the Forcebond was formed in TFA. It ranges anywhere from years before they met on Takadona to the final snow fight. I personally think the interrogation is the most likely place since that’s when they were really having a go at it, pushing and pulling at each other (that sounds dirty, lol). I don’t believe at all that Snoke manufactured it himself.

@IoJovi

I'm thinking in the interrogation scene too. That's when Rey's powers unlocked. And she only used powers after Kylo used them. The closest she showed any Force sensitivity pre-Ben was when his saber, which he clearly used to defend himself when he thought Luke was attacking him, called to her. Which makes me think he had a Force vision about her first.

@Darth Dementor

Quick question.. I was thinking Rey used the force when she watched on the monitor as Finn was dragged away by the Rathtar. She focused all her energy and them tapped the monitor, making the door close on the rathtar's limb releasing Finn. Of course she had no idea how she had done it at that time..
Maybe I misunderstood that moment? If I have can someone explain to me what it was? thanks!

@DeeBee

There's evidence that Rey used the Force at a low-level before she was aware of her powers. Her initial flight of the Falcon is a good example of this.

A more-established canon example is that she clearly uses the Force in the Forces of Destiny cartoon (Fod is canon) where the giant sandworm is trying to eat BB-8. Rey makes a comment about just being "lucky", but it's clear to the audience that she inadvertently uses the Force. Granted, this all could make a case for the Force always having been there, but now it's truly "awake."

On a related note, in the Leia PoA novel, Leia also unknowingly uses the Force to save herself from a fall.

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

DeeBee wrote:

Darth Dementor wrote:

IoJovi wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

IoJovi wrote:

Forsythia wrote:

That's a very vague answer and Matt didn't confirm or debunk anything, so it's possible (and IMO very likely) that Snoke was lying and that the bond still exists. I guess we'll just have to wait for episode IX to get a more conclusive answer.

@Forsythia

I’m thinking Snoke did lie about creating the Bond. I think he only knew about it and lied to use it to his advantage. It still exists at the end of TLJ, well after he’s dead and that’s what counts. Ben and Rey can’t ignore each other, and that’s what’s important!

@IoJovi

I'll need to see TLJ again, but from what I recall in TFA, there's a point in the interrogation where there minds are meeting and you hear sort of a "ka-thunk" sound. I've long interpretted that as being when the "connection" was formed.

In my head, you kind of hear the same (or a similar sound) again the first time that they figure out that the bond exists in TLJ.

@ISeeAnIsland

I’m seeing all kinds of theories on tumblr tonight as to when exactly the Forcebond was formed in TFA. It ranges anywhere from years before they met on Takadona to the final snow fight. I personally think the interrogation is the most likely place since that’s when they were really having a go at it, pushing and pulling at each other (that sounds dirty, lol). I don’t believe at all that Snoke manufactured it himself.

@IoJovi

I'm thinking in the interrogation scene too. That's when Rey's powers unlocked. And she only used powers after Kylo used them. The closest she showed any Force sensitivity pre-Ben was when his saber, which he clearly used to defend himself when he thought Luke was attacking him, called to her. Which makes me think he had a Force vision about her first.

@Darth Dementor

Quick question.. I was thinking Rey used the force when she watched on the monitor as Finn was dragged away by the Rathtar. She focused all her energy and them tapped the monitor, making the door close on the rathtar's limb releasing Finn. Of course she had no idea how she had done it at that time..
Maybe I misunderstood that moment? If I have can someone explain to me what it was? thanks!

@DeeBee

There's evidence that Rey used the Force at a low-level before she was aware of her powers. Her initial flight of the Falcon is a good example of this.

A more-established canon example is that she clearly uses the Force in the Forces of Destiny cartoon (Fod is canon) where the giant sandworm is trying to eat BB-8. Rey makes a comment about just being "lucky", but it's clear to the audience that she inadvertently uses the Force. Granted, this all could make a case for the Force always having been there, but now it's truly "awake."

On a related note, in the Leia PoA novel, Leia also unknowingly uses the Force to save herself from a fall.

@ISeeAnIsland

Oh cool! thanks for sharing this ISeeAnIsland!

During my second viewing of TLJ, I noticed during the shirtless Skype session that Kylo mentioned Rey's parents, that they were nobody. It was really quick and I didn't notice it the first time. So maybe he did see her origins during the interrogation....

@Birdwoman - They'll probably never spell it out, but my guess has been that when he first captures here in the forest and is trying to find the map info, the repressed memory is what he goes for instead. And that's part of what triggers their whole Force Skype connection (besides how he finally admits sh*t how he noticed/has been thinking about her eyes).