Force Bond Logistics & Implications

SheLitAFire wrote:

SoloSideCousin wrote:

I agree with all of this. The bond formed in the interrogation, but then Snoke read Kylo's mind and "boosted the signal."

@SoloSideCousin

I still want to know why he flips the eff out when he hears about Rey & BB-8 "girl?! what girl?!"
And the "it is you" significance. (I think that's even more significant than my previous comment)
So the bond was formed during the interrogation, but he knew something beforehand? I think that's one of the things JJ thought might get discussed more in VIII.

@SheLitAFire

If Snoke had indeed been telling Kylo that someone would rise to meet him in the light side... maybe that is what he recognized. His equal in the light. From my understanding, the two had been dreaming about each other for years. So maybe he already had an inkling of this girl through a dream??? Not sure, hopefully, the new novelization will give us more clues.

I am just glad they have that bond. I think the last scene of them together really gives insight into their bond. If you noticed in the scene that took place in Snokes throne room, right after Kylo Kills Snoke... Rey, who had been suspended in air, falls to the ground. Leading us the audience to believe that anything he was doing with the force would be broken after his death. So if their bond is still present after that, it was most definitely not Snoke. They make a point of making that kind of distinction on purpose.

I think that Rey will temporarily close the door to their connection, she is disappointed in him but she is not done. She just has more important things to do. If they do a time jump in 9, we could see the two of them using it, maybe when Leia dies... Rey could comfort Kylo... I dunno but I am curious how this develops.

In the last scene where they connect for the last time. Do you think they were surprised by it? Maybe they sort of believed that Smoke created it? It also seems like they do not have total control of it. The force seems to control it. It will be interesting to see how that plays out in the next movie.

@Birdwoman I saw a lot of things in the scene, and surprise was not one of them. If anything, they seemed to accept that they could see one another as completely natural.
So, that makes me think that even if they believed that Snoke created the bond, when they get a chance to reflect on it, they will realize he was lying.
I can see a vocal exchange at a later date:
Rey: "Why are you here? How are you here? Snoke said he bridged our minds."
Kylo: "He was lying. The Force is connecting us."
Or vice versa...and they won't be saying it for us, they'll be saying it for the ones in the back who are steadfastly denying that these two have a connection.

I finally have time to get back to this interesting topic! So many interesting ideas here! I love the idea that the force is behind it all working to bring Rey and Kylo/Ben together to achieve the ultimate goal: Balance.

I’ve been rethinking the force bond stuff!

Whether Snoke says he breached or bridged their minds, I’m now thinking it really doesn’t change much… he could have breached or bridged their minds and started the bond..

I’d rather it wasn’t Snoke who created it and that the bond was forged in the interrogation scene.. Just because I like the idea of this! But.. I’ve decided to open up to the idea of Snoke creating the bond, and what that would mean.. and I’m reconsidering!

There is no indication after the interrogation scene that there is a bond (connection yes, but bond? not clearly IMHO) and we don’t see the bond till TLJ.
The interrogation scene may be more about recognition rather than a force bond – in terms of their force energies… or resonance.
If Snoke created the bond, it would have been once he learned of Kylo/Ben’s defeat – and he wanted the girl brought to him..
It also seems to me that everything Snoke says in the movie is true – (other than his mistaken interpretation of the meaning of Kylo/Ben’s thoughts about striking down his true enemy ha! ). And, if I accept that Snoke was telling the truth in starting the bond to manipulate them both – it fits the awful cruelty of his character too that he would do this.. He doesn’t make stuff up to be cruel- he’s just cruel!
It also tells us much about Kylo/Ben’s internal struggles that Snoke knew this would work (it flags Kylo/Ben’s need for connection) – because Snoke knows him so well.
[thank goodness Kylo/Ben is no longer under the Snoke yoke! Ha! ]

Once Snoke is dead – the bond remains – maybe this is the force choosing to keep it in place? To use in service of it’s will in some way… [this is assuming he is dead. Lol.]

So whether Snoke created the bond or not it still exists, and they still both needed it and their relationship benefitted from it. It is still meaningful – and IMHO it’s an interesting idea that what Snoke created with malevolent intent will turn out to be something wonderful and healing, which will ultimately (IMHO) bring about the balance in some way. (and unite lovers!)
A nice spin on the idea that actions have unintended consequences that can lead to the opposite of what you were hoping for (like Luke’s moment of considering striking down Ben to prevent his turning to the dark side, which actually turns him to the dark side!).
So yeah, now I actually kind of like that Snoke started it, and it was turned back on him for good!!
So I guess whether Snoke started the bond or not… either way I’m fine with it- just glad we got it.. I suspect this is as much information as we are going to get about it!

@Moonlight13 – thanks so much for responding to my question about force bonds and whether a half of the bond can die. Being left with a gaping hole in your soul sounds pretty awful!!!

When someone asked Pablo how Rey was able to perform the famous Jedi mind trick, he replied that she got the information from Kylo’s head like he got information from her.
It’s strange, and I might be the only one did this, but once the idea of the Force Bond crossed my consciousness, I never once doubted it existed. It actually startled me when I read a thread and someone made the comment that it was in doubt.
I guess that’s why I am so convinced that Snoke didn’t have anything to do with the initial bond. I suppose he senses it...and maybe he fed some power into it. But I doubt that.
The Force created that bond. And Snoke can do something obscene to himself.

I was watching an episode of supergirl and something really fascinating and relevant came up. Hank aka Jon Jonzz aka Martian Manhunter was talking about how he met another martian and he asked to form a psychic bond with her. It's not romantic but it was something all martians did with each other to express to each other. He said something really amazing about these martian bonds-

Hank: The Bond is the traditional Martian way of communicating. We link minds. Share dreams, emotions... memories. We kept no secrets from one another. Imagine. A world without ego and selfishness. Without... lies.
Supergirl: It sounds beautiful.

So this just *screamed* reylo force bond to me. This is exactly how I envision their bond to be at its strongest and it rings so true for them. They will never be able to hide from each other, as we've already seen in TLJ. There can never be any lies or any kind of barriers between those two, which makes the relationship so damn amazing. It is about two people being completely vulnerable with one another other. It made me think how different our world would be if we had that kind of cosmic connection with all the people we meet- there would be so much more empathy in the world. We would be able to connect with even the "darkest" of society because we would see all their emotions and likewise for the person, they would see someone who sees them as a broken human being, not a monster.

rey09 wrote:I was watching an episode of supergirl and something really fascinating and relevant came up. Hank aka Jon Jonzz aka Martian Manhunter was talking about how he met another martian and he asked to form a psychic bond with her. It's not romantic but it was something all martians did with each other to express to each other. He said something really amazing about these martian bonds-

Hank: The Bond is the traditional Martian way of communicating. We link minds. Share dreams, emotions... memories. We kept no secrets from one another. Imagine. A world without ego and selfishness. Without... lies.
Supergirl: It sounds beautiful.

So this just *screamed* reylo force bond to me. This is exactly how I envision their bond to be at its strongest and it rings so true for them. They will never be able to hide from each other, as we've already seen in TLJ. There can never be any lies or any kind of barriers between those two, which makes the relationship so damn amazing. It is about two people being completely vulnerable with one another other. It made me think how different our world would be if we had that kind of cosmic connection with all the people we meet- there would be so much more empathy in the world. We would be able to connect with even the "darkest" of society because we would see all their emotions and likewise for the person, they would see someone who sees them as a broken human being, not a monster.

@rey09

Oh, I remember this episode. A very interesting point to note, indeed. At its core, I don't think the force bond is meant to be romantic by nature. It just opens up the relationship between two beings to something pure and not influenced by societal barriers. It allows for a more empathetic relationship to develop. I think there is a need to separate the purpose and the occurrence of the Force Bond (which is to connect two Force sensitive beings) from what has transpired between Rey and Kylo and their relationship. Yes, it is a very intimate setting and brings two people across the universe together - it's mysterious by nature and could be partially seen as fate. At the same time, it never forced these two to act in kindness towards each other. Their loneliness, their background and their past was what made them connect on the very basic human level, and that had nothing to do with the bond. The bond only enabled the groundworks for empathy. The bond didn't make Rey go to Kylo nor did it force these two characters to reveal their innermost secrets to one another. Their choices were entirely theirs and what they eventually chose to do was what made their very human relationship special.

thescavenger wrote:

rey09 wrote:I was watching an episode of supergirl and something really fascinating and relevant came up. Hank aka Jon Jonzz aka Martian Manhunter was talking about how he met another martian and he asked to form a psychic bond with her. It's not romantic but it was something all martians did with each other to express to each other. He said something really amazing about these martian bonds-

Hank: The Bond is the traditional Martian way of communicating. We link minds. Share dreams, emotions... memories. We kept no secrets from one another. Imagine. A world without ego and selfishness. Without... lies.
Supergirl: It sounds beautiful.

So this just *screamed* reylo force bond to me. This is exactly how I envision their bond to be at its strongest and it rings so true for them. They will never be able to hide from each other, as we've already seen in TLJ. There can never be any lies or any kind of barriers between those two, which makes the relationship so damn amazing. It is about two people being completely vulnerable with one another other. It made me think how different our world would be if we had that kind of cosmic connection with all the people we meet- there would be so much more empathy in the world. We would be able to connect with even the "darkest" of society because we would see all their emotions and likewise for the person, they would see someone who sees them as a broken human being, not a monster.

@rey09

Oh, I remember this episode. A very interesting point to note, indeed. At its core, I don't think the force bond is meant to be romantic by nature. It just opens up the relationship between two beings to something pure and not influenced by societal barriers. It allows for a more empathetic relationship to develop. I think there is a need to separate the purpose and the occurrence of the Force Bond (which is to connect two Force sensitive beings) from what has transpired between Rey and Kylo and their relationship. Yes, it is a very intimate setting and brings two people across the universe together - it's mysterious by nature and could be partially seen as fate. At the same time, it never forced these two to act in kindness towards each other. Their loneliness, their background and their past was what made them connect on the very basic human level, and that had nothing to do with the bond. The bond only enabled the groundworks for empathy. The bond didn't make Rey go to Kylo nor did it force these two characters to reveal their innermost secrets to one another. Their choices were entirely theirs and what they eventually chose to do was what made their very human relationship special.

@thescavenger

Yes exactly. Bond ---> Empathy ---> Developed feelings/chemistry ---> ultimate goal - Love. The databank saying that this bond allows them to see each other despite being "millions of light years away" is just so powerful. I'm baffled that people don't get just how much of a big deal his bond is.

rey09 wrote:

thescavenger wrote:

rey09 wrote:I was watching an episode of supergirl and something really fascinating and relevant came up. Hank aka Jon Jonzz aka Martian Manhunter was talking about how he met another martian and he asked to form a psychic bond with her. It's not romantic but it was something all martians did with each other to express to each other. He said something really amazing about these martian bonds-

Hank: The Bond is the traditional Martian way of communicating. We link minds. Share dreams, emotions... memories. We kept no secrets from one another. Imagine. A world without ego and selfishness. Without... lies.
Supergirl: It sounds beautiful.

So this just *screamed* reylo force bond to me. This is exactly how I envision their bond to be at its strongest and it rings so true for them. They will never be able to hide from each other, as we've already seen in TLJ. There can never be any lies or any kind of barriers between those two, which makes the relationship so damn amazing. It is about two people being completely vulnerable with one another other. It made me think how different our world would be if we had that kind of cosmic connection with all the people we meet- there would be so much more empathy in the world. We would be able to connect with even the "darkest" of society because we would see all their emotions and likewise for the person, they would see someone who sees them as a broken human being, not a monster.

@rey09

Oh, I remember this episode. A very interesting point to note, indeed. At its core, I don't think the force bond is meant to be romantic by nature. It just opens up the relationship between two beings to something pure and not influenced by societal barriers. It allows for a more empathetic relationship to develop. I think there is a need to separate the purpose and the occurrence of the Force Bond (which is to connect two Force sensitive beings) from what has transpired between Rey and Kylo and their relationship. Yes, it is a very intimate setting and brings two people across the universe together - it's mysterious by nature and could be partially seen as fate. At the same time, it never forced these two to act in kindness towards each other. Their loneliness, their background and their past was what made them connect on the very basic human level, and that had nothing to do with the bond. The bond only enabled the groundworks for empathy. The bond didn't make Rey go to Kylo nor did it force these two characters to reveal their innermost secrets to one another. Their choices were entirely theirs and what they eventually chose to do was what made their very human relationship special.

@thescavenger

Yes exactly. Bond ---> Empathy ---> Developed feelings/chemistry ---> ultimate goal - Love. The databank saying that this bond allows them to see each other despite being "millions of light years away" is just so powerful. I'm baffled that people don't get just how much of a big deal his bond is.

@rey09

I think it shows that as a society we have grown numb to human emotions/human condition somewhat, kinda like we are like Kylo Ren being fixed by that bot, less human contact on our devices, etc. We get things served on a platter more than the previous generations, so when we are challenged to actually think a bit deeper than at the surface level, it's foreign to some folks.

And yes, I can't agree more in the fact of how special this bond is, regardless in it being a fictional concept. If in reality, that could be had, what a different world we would be existing in and one that I would totally want to be a part of.

I was thinking about how they could possibly expand on the Force bond in IX, and my first thought is that they'll probably learn to block it out sometime between TLJ and IX. But I think it's also possible that IX will show them learn how to control it, and call on the other at will. I just wonder what the circumstances behind it would be! I think I said in the Prediction thread that there might also be a thing where one of them is in trouble and connects to the other unconsciously, but I would love if it got to the point where one of them sought out the other on purpose through the connection.

I wonder how they would portray it, if it happened by one of their wills instead of randomly for both of them. Would it be like tugging a metaphorical string attached to the other where it has to be a mutual connection to fully form (like a Skype call, haha) or would it, at least at first, involve one of them throwing open the gates and surprising the other?

ZioRen wrote:I was thinking about how they could possibly expand on the Force bond in IX, and my first thought is that they'll probably learn to block it out sometime between TLJ and IX. But I think it's also possible that IX will show them learn how to control it, and call on the other at will. I just wonder what the circumstances behind it would be! I think I said in the Prediction thread that there might also be a thing where one of them is in trouble and connects to the other unconsciously, but I would love if it got to the point where one of them sought out the other on purpose through the connection.

I wonder how they would portray it, if it happened by one of their wills instead of randomly for both of them. Would it be like tugging a metaphorical string attached to the other where it has to be a mutual connection to fully form (like a Skype call, haha) or would it, at least at first, involve one of them throwing open the gates and surprising the other?

@ZioRen

It's a funny to think that there will be more force bond moments in IX, but perhaps maybe it will evolve somehow. I think cinematically, to have the same exact effects for more force bond moments without anything new would be rather boring. I'm hoping they explore the bond more, not only the Skype part, but something else that connects them.

thescavenger wrote:

ZioRen wrote:I was thinking about how they could possibly expand on the Force bond in IX, and my first thought is that they'll probably learn to block it out sometime between TLJ and IX. But I think it's also possible that IX will show them learn how to control it, and call on the other at will. I just wonder what the circumstances behind it would be! I think I said in the Prediction thread that there might also be a thing where one of them is in trouble and connects to the other unconsciously, but I would love if it got to the point where one of them sought out the other on purpose through the connection.

I wonder how they would portray it, if it happened by one of their wills instead of randomly for both of them. Would it be like tugging a metaphorical string attached to the other where it has to be a mutual connection to fully form (like a Skype call, haha) or would it, at least at first, involve one of them throwing open the gates and surprising the other?

@ZioRen

It's a funny to think that there will be more force bond moments in IX, but perhaps maybe it will evolve somehow. I think cinematically, to have the same exact effects for more force bond moments without anything new would be rather boring. I'm hoping they explore the bond more, not only the Skype part, but something else that connects them.

@thescavenger

Something like a force bond kiss? That would be too similar to the hand touching scene though.

EchoBase wrote:

thescavenger wrote:

ZioRen wrote:I was thinking about how they could possibly expand on the Force bond in IX, and my first thought is that they'll probably learn to block it out sometime between TLJ and IX. But I think it's also possible that IX will show them learn how to control it, and call on the other at will. I just wonder what the circumstances behind it would be! I think I said in the Prediction thread that there might also be a thing where one of them is in trouble and connects to the other unconsciously, but I would love if it got to the point where one of them sought out the other on purpose through the connection.

I wonder how they would portray it, if it happened by one of their wills instead of randomly for both of them. Would it be like tugging a metaphorical string attached to the other where it has to be a mutual connection to fully form (like a Skype call, haha) or would it, at least at first, involve one of them throwing open the gates and surprising the other?

@ZioRen

It's a funny to think that there will be more force bond moments in IX, but perhaps maybe it will evolve somehow. I think cinematically, to have the same exact effects for more force bond moments without anything new would be rather boring. I'm hoping they explore the bond more, not only the Skype part, but something else that connects them.

@thescavenger

Something like a force bond kiss? That would be too similar to the hand touching scene though.

@EchoBase

I was thinking of something along the lines of expanding what the bond means rather than what happens during the Bond Session like a kiss. Like the bond evolves to be something like feeling each other's pains or actually transporting themselves entirely to where the other person is. I don't know I'm out of ideas but something that cuts Snoke's claims out of the equation and confirms that there is more to their intertwined fate than Skype.

@thescavenger yes I was hoping they would have it so that if either is physically hurt, the other feels the same thing. That would be intense.

rey09 wrote:@thescavenger yes I was hoping they would have it so that if either is physically hurt, the other feels the same thing. That would be intense.

@rey09

And Kylo can get cramps once a month!

I do love this idea thescavenger - it just begs for one of them to get hurt and the other will immediately know about it.. and freak out!

Would they do a force bond kiss in IX? What does everyone think? would you want that?
I'll take any kiss between these two I can get.. but.. if I were to have a preference - it would be that the force bond is not their first kiss.
I'd be wanting them to long to be physically actually in the same place so they can experience that kiss for real.. and it would provide impetus.
As if they can force bond connect wherever they are - I feel like there needs to be some motivation for them to take it to the next level and go real world with it. haaaa..

I could go with hugs, cuddles and co-sleeping though.. lol..

I guess this will depend on if their connections can be controlled in anyway.
Is everyone thinking the nature of the Force bond will change over time?
May either get control of it? What's your preference? do tell!
I prefer neither can prevent a FB moment, but they can also actively initiate it if they wish - because then they are forced to interact and it is more difficult to give the other the silent treatment.. their issues need to be fleshed out. The force is forcing them [get it? ] to communicate and work together because of their intertwined destinies.

Who gotta run. bye!

@DeeBee

Good questions!

I think I'd like it if the force bond evolved to the point where Rey and Ben could see each other's surroundings. It seems like a natural evolution from TLJ, where they couldn't do that, and it would be exciting because they would instantly know the other's location. So if one of them is hurt or in danger, the other would see it and go after them. Or Ben would know where the Resistance base is, but choose not to go after them no matter how much he hates them (progress in his redemption!), because he doesn't want to hurt Rey any further and realizes her friends are important to her.

Another thing I'd like is for non-force sensitives and droids to be able to see and hear them during their bond moment. We know Luke saw Kylo in Rey's hut, but he's force sensitive. Would one of the droids be able to see him "visit" Rey in IX, or one of the Resistance members? I think that would be something worth exploring, because there's so much drama potential if someone from the Resistance uncovers Rey and Kylo's bond by catching them having a moment together. Which brings me to... kissing: they could kiss or almost kiss when someone barges in and discovers them together during the bond. Then all sith will hit the fan!

PalmettoBlue wrote:When someone asked Pablo how Rey was able to perform the famous Jedi mind trick, he replied that she got the information from Kylo’s head like he got information from her.
It’s strange, and I might be the only one did this, but once the idea of the Force Bond crossed my consciousness, I never once doubted it existed. It actually startled me when I read a thread and someone made the comment that it was in doubt.
I guess that’s why I am so convinced that Snoke didn’t have anything to do with the initial bond. I suppose he senses it...and maybe he fed some power into it. But I doubt that.
The Force created that bond. And Snoke can do something obscene to himself.

@PalmettoBlue

I had the same thoughts about the bond: once the idea came up, it made sense to me and wouldn't go away. In the interrogation it's not just him going into her mind, but Rey going into Ben's too. And then immediately afterward she does the mind trick, which she shouldn't be able to do--unless, of course, she got the know-how from Ben's mind. And later she won't talk to Finn about it, so it must be a deeply personal experience (which could be on a variety of levels) that she's not willing to disclose to anyone.

I'm still working this out, but I think Ben and Rey's "connection" has a number of layers. First, they are connected because he is the darkness to her light, and if what Snoke says about darkness rising and light meeting it is true, then Ben knows there will be a counterpart to him. As the novelization hints, maybe the two of them have been having dreams about this mysterious other for a while. (It seems to me he knew this counterpart would be a female and hence "What girl!?") And I hope this bond will lead to the two of them being the Balance of the Force, the yin yang that brings a resolution to the ST conflict. (Just don't ask me to explain how that will work!  )

But the bond that allows them to communicate is much stronger than this light-dark connection, and was formed in the interrogation scene. But how much, if at all, was it "boosted" by Snoke? I heard a podcaster (IIRC) say it was as though the bond was already there, but Snoke just dialed the phone.

I'm not entirely sure how much Snoke was involved though. I think he certainly manipulates Ben and reads his mind and stokes his conflict, but how much can we believe Snoke when he says it was him? We know it wasn't all Snoke because of the Force connection at the end of TLJ. But is that because the bond has grown so strong that it can now function without Snoke?

The other thing that to me casts doubt on Snoke's claim to have bridged Ben and Rey's minds is the way the Force theme plays so strongly when Rey and Ben touch hands. Is that musical cue just John Williams's idea? In the OT, the music gives us very strong clues when we might not otherwise know what's going on (Luke hacking at Vader, for instance--we don't know for sure whether he's giving in to the Dark Side or just fighting like he should be, without the ominous musical guidance). So I think the music is telling us that Rey and Ben connecting is a great thing. But why is it a great thing? Is the Force vision each gets the great thing? Is their Force bond itself the great thing? Is the future the Force bond might bring about the great thing? Or is the music telling us that the Force itself formed the connection (assuming for the sake of argument the Force has a will) and their physical touch at this moment to lead to that Balance/resolution/happy ending  ?

I'm still working this out, and it's fun to read others' thoughts on this idea.  

Just had a question lingering in my mind about the force bond sessions.

As an audience member we are told via Kylo in FB1 he can only see Rey. And though we can see their backgrounds, they are only seeing one another,  although given the implication of sensation via gunshot, in FB1, and the water on Kylo's hand in FB2, we again see their surroundings and Kylo actively moves closer to Rey. We all remember FB3, again we  the audience see both the surroundings again a point is made of what can be seen, it's not just the face its the body. Now to FB4, we see both their surroundings, Rey holds her hand out, we see Kylo take his glove off in his surroundings, but we only see them touch in Rey's surroundings. We are given a visual shot of them together in the hut, Luke comes in and appears to see all, we have both Rey and Kylo turn towards Luke.

Now my question, while Kylo is doing this touching of hands, what is he seeing from his perspective,? Is this happening to him as if Rey is in his  room with him, but we only see Rey's side. Or are they still only seeing one another physically, and in some kind of white neutral  space for want of a better setting. I keep puzzling over it. Is he physically there as they were able to touch or some sort of projection like Luke, but he wasn't able to touch Luke projection, so it's got to be more than that.
Then FB5, they are back in their own place from the audiences perspective but Kylo flinches as she shuts the door, so is he seeing more of the surroundings. Did that start to happen in FB4? Was he in both places at once in FB4.


I'm really just trying to get a grip on it all in my mind, these are the thoughts one has while doing mundane chores such as ironing. I'm looking at the force bonds from every angle, and still not come up with a satisfactory answer, and now it's become of utmost importance that I need to know these things...Lol

Let The Past Die wrote:Just had a question lingering in my mind about the force bond sessions.

As an audience member we are told via Kylo in FB1 he can only see Rey. And though we can see their backgrounds, they are only seeing one another,  although given the implication of sensation via gunshot, in FB1, and the water on Kylo's hand in FB2, we again see their surroundings and Kylo actively moves closer to Rey. We all remember FB3, again we  the audience see both the surroundings again a point is made of what can be seen, it's not just the face its the body. Now to FB4, we see both their surroundings, Rey holds her hand out, we see Kylo take his glove off in his surroundings, but we only see them touch in Rey's surroundings. We are given a visual shot of them together in the hut, Luke comes in and appears to see all, we have both Rey and Kylo turn towards Luke.

Now my question, while Kylo is doing this touching of hands, what is he seeing from his perspective,? Is this happening to him as if Rey is in his  room with him, but we only see Rey's side. Or are they still only seeing one another physically, and in some kind of white neutral  space for want of a better setting. I keep puzzling over it. Is he physically there as they were able to touch or some sort of projection like Luke, but he wasn't able to touch Luke projection, so it's got to be more than that.
Then FB5, they are back in their own place from the audiences perspective but Kylo flinches as she shuts the door, so is he seeing more of the surroundings. Did that start to happen in FB4? Was he in both places at once in FB4.


I'm really just trying to get a grip on it all in my mind, these are the thoughts one has while doing mundane chores such as ironing. I'm looking at the force bonds from every angle, and still not come up with a satisfactory answer, and now it's become of utmost importance that I need to know these things...Lol

@Let The Past Die

My interpretation of what you're describing is that the bond was getting stronger each time they connected. e.g. with FB1, "I can't see your surroundings", but then with FB2, Kylo clearly draws in some of the "rain" that Rey was feeling. Kylo's flinch as Rey shuts the door in FB4 would also suggest that they're both at least starting to get a sense of the other's surroundings as the bond's strength increases.

@DeeBee

I was previously pretty "meh" on the idea of a Force Bond Kiss going into TLJ, but seeing how beautifully executed the Force Bond stuff was in TLJ, I'm totally in Camp Force Bond Kiss in IX, before we get a "real" kiss (probably a Kiss of Life) in IX. Tying in to what I typed above, given the hand-touching and general strengthening of the bond, I kind of feel like they might have been building to something like a FB Kiss for IX. If not a kiss, there has to be some other reason why they were strengthening the bond and building up so that things get a little more "real" with each connection.

I am also wondering when the new Forces of Destiny come out, we will get a force bond moment between Rey and Kylo? I know the series fills in the blanks with cute little stories that were not shown in the movie? For example: After she rescues BB8, they run into that monster who likes to eat metal.

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

Let The Past Die wrote:Just had a question lingering in my mind about the force bond sessions.

As an audience member we are told via Kylo in FB1 he can only see Rey. And though we can see their backgrounds, they are only seeing one another,  although given the implication of sensation via gunshot, in FB1, and the water on Kylo's hand in FB2, we again see their surroundings and Kylo actively moves closer to Rey. We all remember FB3, again we  the audience see both the surroundings again a point is made of what can be seen, it's not just the face its the body. Now to FB4, we see both their surroundings, Rey holds her hand out, we see Kylo take his glove off in his surroundings, but we only see them touch in Rey's surroundings. We are given a visual shot of them together in the hut, Luke comes in and appears to see all, we have both Rey and Kylo turn towards Luke.

Now my question, while Kylo is doing this touching of hands, what is he seeing from his perspective,? Is this happening to him as if Rey is in his  room with him, but we only see Rey's side. Or are they still only seeing one another physically, and in some kind of white neutral  space for want of a better setting. I keep puzzling over it. Is he physically there as they were able to touch or some sort of projection like Luke, but he wasn't able to touch Luke projection, so it's got to be more than that.
Then FB5, they are back in their own place from the audiences perspective but Kylo flinches as she shuts the door, so is he seeing more of the surroundings. Did that start to happen in FB4? Was he in both places at once in FB4.


I'm really just trying to get a grip on it all in my mind, these are the thoughts one has while doing mundane chores such as ironing. I'm looking at the force bonds from every angle, and still not come up with a satisfactory answer, and now it's become of utmost importance that I need to know these things...Lol

@Let The Past Die

My interpretation of what you're describing is that the bond was getting stronger each time they connected.  e.g. with FB1, "I can't see your surroundings", but then with FB2, Kylo clearly draws in some of the "rain" that Rey was feeling. Kylo's flinch as Rey shuts the door in FB4 would also suggest that they're both at least starting to get a sense of the other's surroundings as the bond's strength increases.

@ISeeAnIsland
Yes I agree, that the force was getting stronger each time they force bonded... The possibilities are endless in IX, I hope they utilise it to its full potential.

I guess what I'm really trying to get my head around is where is Rey in the hand touching force bond? Just her hut, or is she over at his, I think I want more than they gave us the audience a view of. ... Or am I just over complicating things, and should really go with the flow.  

I loved the force bonds in TLJ and I wouldn't mind seeing 1 or 2 more, but this being the last movie, I would like them to physically be in the same place.

DeeBee wrote:

rey09 wrote:@thescavenger yes I was hoping they would have it so that if either is physically hurt, the other feels the same thing. That would be intense.

@rey09

And Kylo can get cramps once a month!

@DeeBee  Lmao ah if only men could actually feel all female physical pain.

Also I think it is absolutely NUTS people think this force bond is over. Like I was being s*** on for saying the force bond is a thing and will come back. Like wtf?? WHY ARE PEOPLE SO DENSE? I was talking to friends who were like nah to reylo but made notice of poe rey meeting, and I'm like ARE U KIDDING? You are oogly about that but totally missed the importance of the force bond??!!!! It makes me so mad. Like why bother watching this trilogy if you refuse to watch it correctly. UGH.

This stuff is fun to play with for the next two years no? I can see this next two years is going to be super interesting.. one thing about reading TLJ fan fic is that you get to test out what you think of various ideas and explore.. there are some interesting ideas out there! I see on the ‘Reylo’s Possible Offspring’ thread the question is being raised as to whether it’s possible to actual conceive via force bond sex.

rawpowah wrote: I think I'd like it if the force bond evolved to the point where Rey and Ben could see each other's surroundings. It seems like a natural evolution from TLJ, where they couldn't do that, and it would be exciting because they would instantly know the other's location. So if one of them is hurt or in danger, the other would see it and go after them. Or Ben would know where the Resistance base is, but choose not to go after them no matter how much he hates them (progress in his redemption!), because he doesn't want to hurt Rey any further and realizes her friends are important to her.

Another thing I'd like is for non-force sensitives and droids to be able to see and hear them during their bond moment. We know Luke saw Kylo in Rey's hut, but he's force sensitive. Would one of the droids be able to see him "visit" Rey in IX, or one of the Resistance members? I think that would be something worth exploring, because there's so much drama potential if someone from the Resistance uncovers Rey and Kylo's bond by catching them having a moment together. Which brings me to... kissing: they could kiss or almost kiss when someone barges in and discovers them together during the bond. Then all sith will hit the fan!

Progressing to see each other’s surroundings is interesting.. and would have story changing implications – if they are on two different sides of a war… but it seems very possible this could happen.
I think if one of them is hurt they could go after them even if they don’t  see their surroundings. There have been a few fan fics that have gone this route.. especially if the hurt person is conscious enough to give a location.. But there is usually an assumption that each can sense the other and if they really wanted to locate the other. (but I don't know if that's true) Yeah it would be a way to demonstrate Kylo/Ben is changing for Rey if he doesn’t use what he learns through their force bond.

Great question rawpowah.. will other force-sensitives be able to sense their connection?
Hey can a droid be force sensitive? I thought the force was in all living things.. and droids are not living no? Maybe a cyborg with a living exterior? Lol.
I was thinking Luke saw Kylo/Ben in the hut because at that point he was touching hands with Rey.
I don’t know if this is correct or not though. I think we can’t really know.
Right before Luke sees the hut party was when he reconnected with the force, and he couldn’t see Kylo in the first FB session when he wasn’t connected the force... sooo I don’t know! Lol. so I guess either is possible?

Oh I so agree.. the resistance will not be happy with Rey communicating their enemy number 1. I think all hell could break loose! Or rofl. Yes as you say so eloquently rawpowah the sith will hit the fan haaaa I love it!

12 Parsnips wrote: I'm not entirely sure how much Snoke was involved though. I think he certainly manipulates Ben and reads his mind and stokes his conflict, but how much can we believe Snoke when he says it was him? We know it wasn't all Snoke because of the Force connection at the end of TLJ. But is that because the bond has grown so strong that it can now function without Snoke?  

@12 Parsnips hope you don’t mind me quoting just a part of your comment here..
I’m trying to keep an open mind about the creation of the force bond..
I think the bolded in your comment sums it up perfectly and simply. This is the most important thing we can be certain of here!

I enjoyed your thoughts on the music and the force bond too 12 Parsnips. I find it fun to hear lots of ideas too! For me there is no doubt the force wants this force bond connection and it is being used in some way to bring about the will of the force. I understand some will not see this the same way I do, but for me, this does not rule out that Snoke started the force bond connection, and that the force let him and will use that. The force could have kept Snoke around to use as a sharp tool to achieve it’s will haaaaaa… I kinda like the idea of the force using Snoke haaa..

Anyway, yes, I think the bond is a good thing, a super significant thing in terms of the galaxy and the will of the force to bring balance, that it exists is the will of the force.
Don’t fight the will of the force you two, or it will come back and kick you in the you know what. Haaa

Let The Past Die wrote: Now my question, while Kylo is doing this touching of hands, what is he seeing from his perspective,? Is this happening to him as if Rey is in his  room with him, but we only see Rey's side. Or are they still only seeing one another physically, and in some kind of white neutral  space for want of a better setting. I keep puzzling over it. Is he physically there as they were able to touch or some sort of projection like Luke, but he wasn't able to touch Luke projection, so it's got to be more than that.  

Great questions! I tend to assume it’s ‘just you’ unless it is clearly otherwise, but I agree that there are signs the force bond is growing..
I saw the blaster shot not hitting Kylo/Ben in FB 1 and then the rain falling on Kylo/Ben in FB 2 as showing this is happening (force bond is growing).. just a little.
Luke seeing both Rey and Kylo/Ben in the hut could be because they were touching hands at that moment.. or it could be because Luke had just reconnected himself to the force. I don’t know!
Yeah great question why does Kylo flinch when the door closes in FB 5?
I figured the door closing was a visual representation of her shutting off the connection in that moment (not thinking permanently because the force won’t want that! Haaaa). So Kylo/Ben doesn’t really see the door close.. he sees the ending of the connection. I think. But I don’t know for sure – it could be that he is now seeing her surroundings and does see the door close. I can’t tell from what I’m given… but it’s fun to see if we can work it out. Anyone else worked it out?
I relate to your pondering force bonds while going about your daily work. Totally! TLJ has been a wonderful movie to think about throughout the day.. as it is so multilayered and interesting!

Oh I see that @ISeeAnIsland replied to Let the Past Die’s comment I just responded to.

ISeeAnIsland wrote: My interpretation of what you're describing is that the bond was getting stronger each time they connected. e.g. with FB1, "I can't see your surroundings", but then with FB2, Kylo clearly draws in some of the "rain" that Rey was feeling. Kylo's flinch as Rey shuts the door in FB4 would also suggest that they're both at least starting to get a sense of the other's surroundings as the bond's strength increases.

Whoo I just shared my thoughts on FB 5  and the door.. what do you think?
Yes! I agree regarding the rain

ISeeAnIsland wrote: I was previously pretty "meh" on the idea of a Force Bond Kiss going into TLJ, but seeing how beautifully executed the Force Bond stuff was in TLJ, I'm totally in Camp Force Bond Kiss in IX, before we get a "real" kiss (probably a Kiss of Life) in IX. Tying in to what I typed above, given the hand-touching and general strengthening of the bond, I kind of feel like they might have been building to something like a FB Kiss for IX. If not a kiss, there has to be some other reason why they were strengthening the bond and building up so that things get a little more "real" with each connection.

You make a great point.. it is so true, the makers do a great job and I think they could pull it off so well I’d be wondering why I ever doubted it could be great!
Maybe if we get a force bond kiss and a real kiss – we can actually have two first kisses?! Haaa we can get twice the anticipation!!!
Actually now I think about it, I’ve read a number of fan fics with kissing or physical affection via force bond that has worked well.. (aside from all the racy stuff many writers tend to gravitate toward). Yeah okay! I’m more on board with it now too haaaaa.. I can see it now.. one of them says- I didn't think it could feel any more amazing than our kiss via force bond.. but I was wrong -real life is even better

Let The Past Die wrote:  guess what I'm really trying to get my head around is where is Rey in the hand touching force bond? Just her hut, or is she over at his, I think I want more than they gave us the audience a view of. ... Or am I just over complicating things, and should really go with the flow.

I am trying to go with the flow too haaaa. I think asking questions is great fun! Even if we can't come up with an answer, we can maybe rule some out.. or come up with some suggested answers haaa. I think Rey was in the hut and just seeing Kylo/Ben, not his surroundings.. but this is based on me trying not to incorporate new features to the bond without I see as hard evidence.

bashfulblueeyes3 wrote:I loved the force bonds in TLJ and I wouldn't mind seeing 1 or 2 more, but this being the last movie, I would like them to physically be in the same place.  

@bashfulblueeyes3
Amen to that!!! In IX hopefully the FB will facilitate them being together for real as soon as possible!

rey09 wrote:

DeeBee wrote:

rey09 wrote:@thescavenger yes I was hoping they would have it so that if either is physically hurt, the other feels the same thing. That would be intense.

@rey09

And Kylo can get cramps once a month!

@DeeBee  Lmao ah if only men could actually feel all female physical pain.

Also I think it is absolutely NUTS people think this force bond is over. Like I was being s*** on for saying the force bond is a thing and will come back. Like wtf?? WHY ARE PEOPLE SO DENSE? I was talking to friends who were like nah to reylo but made notice of poe rey meeting, and I'm like ARE U KIDDING? You are oogly about that but totally missed the importance of the force bond??!!!! It makes me so mad. Like why bother watching this trilogy if you refuse to watch it correctly. UGH.

@rey09
Haaa yeah! I remember seeing some reylo art at some point that had Kylo in agony and Rey saying what’s your problem it’s just cramps haaaaaa.. Here is one.. but I think there is a few out there..

Artist: cevemo.tumblr.com

DeeBee wrote:This stuff is fun to play with for the next two years no? I can see this next two years is going to be super interesting.. one thing about reading TLJ fan fic is that you get to test out what you think of various ideas and explore.. there are some interesting ideas out there! I see on the ‘Reylo’s Possible Offspring’ thread the question is being raised as to whether it’s possible to actual conceive via force bond sex.

rawpowah wrote: I think I'd like it if the force bond evolved to the point where Rey and Ben could see each other's surroundings. It seems like a natural evolution from TLJ, where they couldn't do that, and it would be exciting because they would instantly know the other's location. So if one of them is hurt or in danger, the other would see it and go after them. Or Ben would know where the Resistance base is, but choose not to go after them no matter how much he hates them (progress in his redemption!), because he doesn't want to hurt Rey any further and realizes her friends are important to her.

Another thing I'd like is for non-force sensitives and droids to be able to see and hear them during their bond moment. We know Luke saw Kylo in Rey's hut, but he's force sensitive. Would one of the droids be able to see him "visit" Rey in IX, or one of the Resistance members? I think that would be something worth exploring, because there's so much drama potential if someone from the Resistance uncovers Rey and Kylo's bond by catching them having a moment together. Which brings me to... kissing: they could kiss or almost kiss when someone barges in and discovers them together during the bond. Then all sith will hit the fan!

Progressing to see each other’s surroundings is interesting.. and would have story changing implications – if they are on two different sides of a war… but it seems very possible this could happen.
I think if one of them is hurt they could go after them even if they don’t  see their surroundings. There have been a few fan fics that have gone this route.. especially if the hurt person is conscious enough to give a location.. But there is usually an assumption that each can sense the other and if they really wanted to locate the other. (but I don't know if that's true) Yeah it would be a way to demonstrate Kylo/Ben is changing for Rey if he doesn’t use what he learns through their force bond.

Great question rawpowah.. will other force-sensitives be able to sense their connection?
Hey can a droid be force sensitive? I thought the force was in all living things.. and droids are not living no? Maybe a cyborg with a living exterior? Lol.
I was thinking Luke saw Kylo/Ben in the hut because at that point he was touching hands with Rey.
I don’t know if this is correct or not though. I think we can’t really know.
Right before Luke sees the hut party was when he reconnected with the force, and he couldn’t see Kylo in the first FB session when he wasn’t connected the force... sooo I don’t know! Lol. so I guess either is possible?

Oh I so agree.. the resistance will not be happy with Rey communicating their enemy number 1. I think all hell could break loose! Or rofl. Yes as you say so eloquently rawpowah the sith will hit the fan haaaa I love it!

12 Parsnips wrote: I'm not entirely sure how much Snoke was involved though. I think he certainly manipulates Ben and reads his mind and stokes his conflict, but how much can we believe Snoke when he says it was him? We know it wasn't all Snoke because of the Force connection at the end of TLJ. But is that because the bond has grown so strong that it can now function without Snoke?  

@12 Parsnips hope you don’t mind me quoting just a part of your comment here..
I’m trying to keep an open mind about the creation of the force bond..
I think the bolded in your comment sums it up perfectly and simply. This is the most important thing we can be certain of here!

I enjoyed your thoughts on the music and the force bond too 12 Parsnips. I find it fun to hear lots of ideas too! For me there is no doubt the force wants this force bond connection and it is being used in some way to bring about the will of the force. I understand some will not see this the same way I do, but for me, this does not rule out that Snoke started the force bond connection, and that the force let him and will use that. The force could have kept Snoke around to use as a sharp tool to achieve it’s will haaaaaa… I kinda like the idea of the force using Snoke haaa..

Anyway, yes, I think the bond is a good thing, a super significant thing in terms of the galaxy and the will of the force to bring balance, that it exists is the will of the force.
Don’t fight the will of the force you two, or it will come back and kick you in the you know what. Haaa

Let The Past Die wrote: Now my question, while Kylo is doing this touching of hands, what is he seeing from his perspective,? Is this happening to him as if Rey is in his  room with him, but we only see Rey's side. Or are they still only seeing one another physically, and in some kind of white neutral  space for want of a better setting. I keep puzzling over it. Is he physically there as they were able to touch or some sort of projection like Luke, but he wasn't able to touch Luke projection, so it's got to be more than that.  

Great questions! I tend to assume it’s ‘just you’ unless it is clearly otherwise, but I agree that there are signs the force bond is growing..
I saw the blaster shot not hitting Kylo/Ben in FB 1 and then the rain falling on Kylo/Ben in FB 2 as showing this is happening (force bond is growing).. just a little.
Luke seeing both Rey and Kylo/Ben in the hut could be because they were touching hands at that moment.. or it could be because Luke had just reconnected himself to the force. I don’t know!
Yeah great question why does Kylo flinch when the door closes in FB 5?
I figured the door closing was a visual representation of her shutting off the connection in that moment (not thinking permanently because the force won’t want that! Haaaa). So Kylo/Ben doesn’t really see the door close.. he sees the ending of the connection. I think. But I don’t know for sure – it could be that he is now seeing her surroundings and does see the door close. I can’t tell from what I’m given… but it’s fun to see if we can work it out. Anyone else worked it out?
I relate to your pondering force bonds while going about your daily work. Totally! TLJ has been a wonderful movie to think about throughout the day.. as it is so multilayered and interesting!

Oh I see that @ISeeAnIsland replied to Let the Past Die’s comment I just responded to.

ISeeAnIsland wrote: My interpretation of what you're describing is that the bond was getting stronger each time they connected. e.g. with FB1, "I can't see your surroundings", but then with FB2, Kylo clearly draws in some of the "rain" that Rey was feeling. Kylo's flinch as Rey shuts the door in FB4 would also suggest that they're both at least starting to get a sense of the other's surroundings as the bond's strength increases.

Whoo I just shared my thoughts on FB 5  and the door.. what do you think?
Yes! I agree regarding the rain

ISeeAnIsland wrote: I was previously pretty "meh" on the idea of a Force Bond Kiss going into TLJ, but seeing how beautifully executed the Force Bond stuff was in TLJ, I'm totally in Camp Force Bond Kiss in IX, before we get a "real" kiss (probably a Kiss of Life) in IX. Tying in to what I typed above, given the hand-touching and general strengthening of the bond, I kind of feel like they might have been building to something like a FB Kiss for IX. If not a kiss, there has to be some other reason why they were strengthening the bond and building up so that things get a little more "real" with each connection.

You make a great point.. it is so true, the makers do a great job and I think they could pull it off so well I’d be wondering why I ever doubted it could be great!
Maybe if we get a force bond kiss and a real kiss – we can actually have two first kisses?! Haaa we can get twice the anticipation!!!
Actually now I think about it, I’ve read a number of fan fics with kissing or physical affection via force bond that has worked well.. (aside from all the racy stuff many writers tend to gravitate toward). Yeah okay! I’m more on board with it now too haaaaa.. I can see it now.. one of them says- I didn't think it could feel any more amazing than our kiss via force bond.. but I was wrong -real life is even better

Let The Past Die wrote:  guess what I'm really trying to get my head around is where is Rey in the hand touching force bond? Just her hut, or is she over at his, I think I want more than they gave us the audience a view of. ... Or am I just over complicating things, and should really go with the flow.

I am trying to go with the flow too haaaa. I think asking questions is great fun! Even if we can't come up with an answer, we can maybe rule some out.. or come up with some suggested answers haaa. I think Rey was in the hut and just seeing Kylo/Ben, not his surroundings.. but this is based on me trying not to incorporate new features to the bond without I see as hard evidence.

bashfulblueeyes3 wrote:I loved the force bonds in TLJ and I wouldn't mind seeing 1 or 2 more, but this being the last movie, I would like them to physically be in the same place.  

@bashfulblueeyes3
Amen to that!!! In IX hopefully the FB will facilitate them being together for real as soon as possible!

rey09 wrote:

DeeBee wrote:

rey09 wrote:@thescavenger yes I was hoping they would have it so that if either is physically hurt, the other feels the same thing. That would be intense.

@rey09

And Kylo can get cramps once a month!

@DeeBee  Lmao ah if only men could actually feel all female physical pain.

Also I think it is absolutely NUTS people think this force bond is over. Like I was being s*** on for saying the force bond is a thing and will come back. Like wtf?? WHY ARE PEOPLE SO DENSE? I was talking to friends who were like nah to reylo but made notice of poe rey meeting, and I'm like ARE U KIDDING? You are oogly about that but totally missed the importance of the force bond??!!!! It makes me so mad. Like why bother watching this trilogy if you refuse to watch it correctly. UGH.

@rey09
Haaa yeah! I remember seeing some reylo art at some point that had Kylo in agony and Rey saying what’s your problem it’s just cramps haaaaaa.. Here is one.. but I think there is a few out there..

Artist: cevemo.tumblr.com

@DeeBee

I love how you've gone in answered all our questions, it's great to analyse and see what we come up with.

Kylo experiencing cramps - that's epic!