The Last Jedi General Discussion

If Reylo has made it to CheatSheet, says essentially everything that Reylos have been saying for two years, does this mean it's official?

It's just funny to see, you know?

motherofpearl1 wrote:

snufkin wrote:

Darth Rowan wrote:Lol, @frolickingfizzgig. XD

Unrelated: on my drive home I just listened to a pretty chilling NPR feature about the might/greed of the mouse house and how they're using their leverage as "the most powerful film studio since MGM in 1930's" to strong arm theaters in their negotiations for rights to screen TLJ.

Apparently the theater has to agree to reserve the biggest theater in their cinema for 4 weeks for TLJ showings alone, and the studio gets 65% of all ticket sales. There are tiny towns in the Midwest of the U.S. that don't have enough people to fill a theater every day beyond 2 weeks, so they are opting out of screening TLJ.

It sounds like they are trying to ensure that TLJ lives up to the massive cash haul TFA made. I feel bad for the fans who are far from a major city, though.

@Darth Rowan

...and they punished the Los Angeles Times with no access to the press screenings of TLJ and their other big-ticket movies in retaliation for an investigative series about how much money and influence they've peddled in the City of Anaheim to pack the mayor's office and city council with Disneyland friendly politicians. I'm the bad Californian who's always mistrusted Disney, but they're being extra sleazy and greedy in these type of actions for TLJ's release. Pushing that type of policy for smaller, rural communities which only have one locally owned theater is not exactly how you build excitement or brand loyalty in future fans.

@snufkin

Its the negative aspect of Disney owning the Star Wars franchise....

@motherofpearl1

But on the other hand, without Disney, would we get the Sequel trilogy? And if we did get a sequel, would George Lucas have come up with something as fantastic as the relationship with Rey and Kylo and #rawpower?

PalmettoBlue wrote:If Reylo has made it to CheatSheet, says essentially everything that Reylos have been saying for two years, does this mean it's official?

It's just funny to see, you know?

motherofpearl1 wrote:

snufkin wrote:

Darth Rowan wrote:Lol, @frolickingfizzgig. XD

Unrelated: on my drive home I just listened to a pretty chilling NPR feature about the might/greed of the mouse house and how they're using their leverage as "the most powerful film studio since MGM in 1930's" to strong arm theaters in their negotiations for rights to screen TLJ.

Apparently the theater has to agree to reserve the biggest theater in their cinema for 4 weeks for TLJ showings alone, and the studio gets 65% of all ticket sales. There are tiny towns in the Midwest of the U.S. that don't have enough people to fill a theater every day beyond 2 weeks, so they are opting out of screening TLJ.

It sounds like they are trying to ensure that TLJ lives up to the massive cash haul TFA made. I feel bad for the fans who are far from a major city, though.

@Darth Rowan

...and they punished the Los Angeles Times with no access to the press screenings of TLJ and their other big-ticket movies in retaliation for an investigative series about how much money and influence they've peddled in the City of Anaheim to pack the mayor's office and city council with Disneyland friendly politicians. I'm the bad Californian who's always mistrusted Disney, but they're being extra sleazy and greedy in these type of actions for TLJ's release. Pushing that type of policy for smaller, rural communities which only have one locally owned theater is not exactly how you build excitement or brand loyalty in future fans.

@snufkin

Its the negative aspect of Disney owning the Star Wars franchise....

@motherofpearl1

But on the other hand, without Disney, would we get the Sequel trilogy? And if we did get a sequel, would George Lucas have come up with something as fantastic as the relationship with Rey and Kylo and #rawpower?

@PalmettoBlue

In an answer: No. He would be never have given us anything like this. Disney is highly imperfect at best to sinister at worst. But just like Big Pharma, Google, Facebook, Apple, Microsoft, AT&T and the robber barons of old, that have all caused various degrees of harm, they have all changed the world in spectacularly positive and profoundly innovative ways. It's as if massive entities like these are constantly in a constant tug of war over their good and bad sides ... sort of like the galaxy, lol.

PalmettoBlue wrote:

I can see the FO symbol breaking apart in the bottom right corner SoloSideCousin - great catch! I love that! Smile
I can't see the Jedi order symbol though, I can only see the resistance/rebel alliance symbol.. where is it?

@deebee

A little bit above the name "KYLO" and more below "KYLO", there seems to be some kind of "feathering", for lack of a better word, that reminded me of the Old Jedi symbol, particularly under "KYLO".  It might just be how the stormtrooper is drawn, but they have hidden things before.  Also as I was looking at it closely, I noticed that there is a significant shadow behind Kylo's FO symbol.  I can't tell what it is, but there is a defined shape to it.

Also, that is an odd-looking stormtrooper.  It has black on his head and then the back of a Praetorian guard helmet seems to be hovering behind Kylo.  Most interesting of all is that the stormtrooper head seems to be blocking what may be another FO symbol.  Now maybe some of that part is just decorative, but they did seem to make an effort for each one to have a unique background.

@SoloSideCousin
I was thinking an executioner stormtrooper? And that looks like a PG helmet to me as well.

@PalmettoBlue

@PalmettoBlue thanks for the pointer! sorry I didn't get back to this sooner!
Oh yes I can see the feathering.... I am thinking that is the chest of the stormtrooper.

Interesting that the FO and resistance symbols seem to be disintegrating - I guess this fits with the idea that everyone will become hazy - even the resistance...

Kessel wrote:

SoloSideCousin wrote:

A little bit above the name "KYLO" and more below "KYLO", there seems to be some kind of "feathering", for lack of a better word, that reminded me of the Old Jedi symbol, particularly under "KYLO".  It might just be how the stormtrooper is drawn, but they have hidden things before.  Also as I was looking at it closely, I noticed that there is a significant shadow behind Kylo's FO symbol.  I can't tell what it is, but there is a defined shape to it.

Also, that is an odd-looking stormtrooper.  It has black on his head and then the back of a Praetorian guard helmet seems to be hovering behind Kylo.  Most interesting of all is that the stormtrooper head seems to be blocking what may be another FO symbol.  Now maybe some of that part is just decorative, but they did seem to make an effort for each one to have a unique background.

@SoloSideCousin

The stormtrooper on Kylo's image is a Judicial First Order Stormtrooper (according to toy images I saw). I think it's basically the same as the Executioner stormtrooper, except perhaps the Executioner is the lead judicial stormtrooper? I'm not sure how many there are? It could be only one.

According to the toy description (I can't link to it it right now), the Judicial First Order Stormtrooper is a special branch of stormtrooper who "dispenses final justice" on FO soliders who are "guilty of treason." I know they'll figure in Finn's story, so I wonder why one is on Kylo's image? It could just be an aesthetic choice because of all the other FO motifs, but it would be interesting if these the Judicial Stormtrooper factors into Kylo's story (i.e. if Kylo also turns traitor on the FO). Although, I always assumed if Kylo did turn on the FO, Snoke would send the Praetorian Guards (or KOR) after him, not a stormtrooper branch?

@Kessel

I hadn't heard of Judicial Stormtroopers.. I guess they are like the Military police. Makes sense! Thanks for sharing.

Very interesting idea @Kessel - I had heard the executioner storm troopers will be hunting Finn, but I guess they could also be hunting Kylo.
If there's a bounty hunter after Rey - [my guess I haven't heard anything but think it possible as she stole the MF] - it sounds like things are going to get complicated!

Do you think the KoR are force users? have we heard anything? Anyone?

DeeBee wrote:

Kessel wrote:

SoloSideCousin wrote:

A little bit above the name "KYLO" and more below "KYLO", there seems to be some kind of "feathering", for lack of a better word, that reminded me of the Old Jedi symbol, particularly under "KYLO".  It might just be how the stormtrooper is drawn, but they have hidden things before.  Also as I was looking at it closely, I noticed that there is a significant shadow behind Kylo's FO symbol.  I can't tell what it is, but there is a defined shape to it.

Also, that is an odd-looking stormtrooper.  It has black on his head and then the back of a Praetorian guard helmet seems to be hovering behind Kylo.  Most interesting of all is that the stormtrooper head seems to be blocking what may be another FO symbol.  Now maybe some of that part is just decorative, but they did seem to make an effort for each one to have a unique background.

@SoloSideCousin

The stormtrooper on Kylo's image is a Judicial First Order Stormtrooper (according to toy images I saw). I think it's basically the same as the Executioner stormtrooper, except perhaps the Executioner is the lead judicial stormtrooper? I'm not sure how many there are? It could be only one.

According to the toy description (I can't link to it it right now), the Judicial First Order Stormtrooper is a special branch of stormtrooper who "dispenses final justice" on FO soliders who are "guilty of treason." I know they'll figure in Finn's story, so I wonder why one is on Kylo's image? It could just be an aesthetic choice because of all the other FO motifs, but it would be interesting if these the Judicial Stormtrooper factors into Kylo's story (i.e. if Kylo also turns traitor on the FO). Although, I always assumed if Kylo did turn on the FO, Snoke would send the Praetorian Guards (or KOR) after him, not a stormtrooper branch?

@Kessel

I hadn't heard of Judicial Stormtroopers.. I guess they are like the Military police. Makes sense! Thanks for sharing.

Very interesting idea @Kessel - I had heard the executioner storm troopers will be hunting Finn, but I guess they could also be hunting Kylo.
If there's a bounty hunter after Rey - [my guess I haven't heard anything but think it possible as she stole the MF] - it sounds like things are going to get complicated!

Do you think the KoR are force users? have we heard anything? Anyone?

@DeeBee

This is something I've pondered since TFA came out. I think it was suggested somewhere (can't remember where, sorry) that the KoR are a dark reflection of the Church of the Force; i.e. non Force sensitive people who nevertheless believe in and venerate the dark side of the Force. The fact that none of the Knights shown in TFA wield lightsabers would seem to bear this out...

I gave in and bought official topps last Jedi cards. What it says for kylo surprised me to say the least

It says that kylos powers in the darkside have increased since he was defeated by Rey. This can't be right?

I can't upload off Android for an annoying reason,  it flips the picture over

PalmettoBlue wrote:If Reylo has made it to CheatSheet, says essentially everything that Reylos have been saying for two years, does this mean it's official?

It's just funny to see, you know?

motherofpearl1 wrote:

snufkin wrote:

Darth Rowan wrote:Lol, @frolickingfizzgig. XD

Unrelated: on my drive home I just listened to a pretty chilling NPR feature about the might/greed of the mouse house and how they're using their leverage as "the most powerful film studio since MGM in 1930's" to strong arm theaters in their negotiations for rights to screen TLJ.

Apparently the theater has to agree to reserve the biggest theater in their cinema for 4 weeks for TLJ showings alone, and the studio gets 65% of all ticket sales. There are tiny towns in the Midwest of the U.S. that don't have enough people to fill a theater every day beyond 2 weeks, so they are opting out of screening TLJ.

It sounds like they are trying to ensure that TLJ lives up to the massive cash haul TFA made. I feel bad for the fans who are far from a major city, though.

@Darth Rowan

...and they punished the Los Angeles Times with no access to the press screenings of TLJ and their other big-ticket movies in retaliation for an investigative series about how much money and influence they've peddled in the City of Anaheim to pack the mayor's office and city council with Disneyland friendly politicians. I'm the bad Californian who's always mistrusted Disney, but they're being extra sleazy and greedy in these type of actions for TLJ's release. Pushing that type of policy for smaller, rural communities which only have one locally owned theater is not exactly how you build excitement or brand loyalty in future fans.

@snufkin

Its the negative aspect of Disney owning the Star Wars franchise....

@motherofpearl1

But on the other hand, without Disney, would we get the Sequel trilogy? And if we did get a sequel, would George Lucas have come up with something as fantastic as the relationship with Rey and Kylo and #rawpower?

@PalmettoBlue

Doubtfully. And thats the positive aspect of it.

Armadeus wrote:

DeeBee wrote:

Kessel wrote:

SoloSideCousin wrote:

A little bit above the name "KYLO" and more below "KYLO", there seems to be some kind of "feathering", for lack of a better word, that reminded me of the Old Jedi symbol, particularly under "KYLO".  It might just be how the stormtrooper is drawn, but they have hidden things before.  Also as I was looking at it closely, I noticed that there is a significant shadow behind Kylo's FO symbol.  I can't tell what it is, but there is a defined shape to it.

Also, that is an odd-looking stormtrooper.  It has black on his head and then the back of a Praetorian guard helmet seems to be hovering behind Kylo.  Most interesting of all is that the stormtrooper head seems to be blocking what may be another FO symbol.  Now maybe some of that part is just decorative, but they did seem to make an effort for each one to have a unique background.

@SoloSideCousin

The stormtrooper on Kylo's image is a Judicial First Order Stormtrooper (according to toy images I saw). I think it's basically the same as the Executioner stormtrooper, except perhaps the Executioner is the lead judicial stormtrooper? I'm not sure how many there are? It could be only one.

According to the toy description (I can't link to it it right now), the Judicial First Order Stormtrooper is a special branch of stormtrooper who "dispenses final justice" on FO soliders who are "guilty of treason." I know they'll figure in Finn's story, so I wonder why one is on Kylo's image? It could just be an aesthetic choice because of all the other FO motifs, but it would be interesting if these the Judicial Stormtrooper factors into Kylo's story (i.e. if Kylo also turns traitor on the FO). Although, I always assumed if Kylo did turn on the FO, Snoke would send the Praetorian Guards (or KOR) after him, not a stormtrooper branch?

@Kessel

I hadn't heard of Judicial Stormtroopers.. I guess they are like the Military police. Makes sense! Thanks for sharing.

Very interesting idea @Kessel - I had heard the executioner storm troopers will be hunting Finn, but I guess they could also be hunting Kylo.
If there's a bounty hunter after Rey - [my guess I haven't heard anything but think it possible as she stole the MF] - it sounds like things are going to get complicated!

Do you think the KoR are force users? have we heard anything? Anyone?

@DeeBee

This is something I've pondered since TFA came out. I think it was suggested somewhere (can't remember where, sorry) that the KoR are a dark reflection of the Church of the Force; i.e. non Force sensitive people who nevertheless believe in and venerate the dark side of the Force. The fact that none of the Knights shown in TFA wield lightsabers would seem to bear this out...

@Armadeus

That seems like a very feasible possibility for the KOR. For whatever reason, I have the feeling they're not necessarily Force sensitive. I really like the theory that there may be a connection between them and the mysterious Acolytes of the Beyond (from the Aftermath novel) who revere Vader. It would make sense they'd follow Kylo who shares their devotion for his grandfather.

We've heard so little about the KOR and it appears they may not even be in TLJ, but I hope that's just because LF is keeping them under wraps and we'll get more of them than expeacted.

Edit -

Here we go

Great break down of the similarities between Looper & PT... I am yet to be convinced that Looper was a good movie for me it was a B-

Gemini wrote:Edit -

Here we go

@Gemini

I know what you mean about it being odd that Kylo would now be stronger in his powers after it's been confirmed that killing his father actually made him weaker.

I don't know...just a guess, but maybe "his powers in the dark side have increased" means he's even more angry and in more despair at the beginning of TLJ than he was before. These are paths to the dark side according to Yoda, but Kylo also still has that pesky pull to the light. He still has a lot to prove to Snoke because he screwed up and hasn't managed to rid himself of the lingering light. I think that light is going to make it impossible for him to fully prove himself to Snoke in TLJ.

Gemini wrote:Edit -

Here we go

@Gemini

Oh my oh my! Kylo's topps card is 32 = 3 + 2 = 5

Haha!

That is the emperor card in tarot. Renperor arrives  I just might smell a monologue for the ages at the end of EP8



Kylo's original issue TFA card was 67  6 + 7 = death

Gemini wrote:Edit -

Here we go

@Gemini

You know, even if his ability to tap into the Dark side has increased, it’s very clear that he’s not reveling in it. The pursuit of power for the sake of it a la Vader and Palpatine, doesn’t seem to be his thing. I mean, I know Anakin wanted to save Padme (you know, until he Force-choked her almost to death), but his pursuit of power was ultimately more important to him. Kylo kills Han because the dark side wants him to and because he thinks it will assuage his pain.

So maybe he has found that he’s darker (sure - who wouldn’t be), but in the end, I don’t think it will matter. In the end, Snoke wants him to destroy his conscience, the essence of who he is, and that’s not going to happen. What was it that Lando said about him?

“‘Kid’s gonna get in some trouble one day.’ Every kid does, but with the blood of a scoundrel and a princess in his veins, his defiance will shake the stars.”

The rest of that passage is almost heartbreaking, but Ben’s gotten in trouble, his defiance has shaken the stars, and now he’s got to find his way home. And if anyone can do it, it’s Ben Solo.

With a little help from his friend.

spacebaby45678 wrote:

Gemini wrote:Edit -

Here we go

@Gemini

Oh my oh my! Kylo's topps card is 32 = 3 + 2 = 5

Haha!

That is the emperor card in tarot. Renperor arrives  I just might smell a monologue for the ages at the end of EP8



Kylo's original issue TFA card was 67  6 + 7 = death

@spacebaby45678

Now that’s just cool on several levels.

Do you think coincidence or something more?

Ill try post reys cards a bit later

One is foil and one is a normal one.  Maybe spacebaby can look into her numbers

Its  cool that it was death in the other cards because. He is dressed like the reaper but also death means change in tarot cards and he is changing

Edit - reys foil



Well sith,  sounds like the opening of A New Hope

Also look people think they night be revealing the plot:

91 'Rey's Solitude'
92 'General Leia Organa
'93 'Rey and her Lightsaber'
94 'On Crait'
95 'Rushing to Attack
'96 'Finn's Recovery
'97 'Poe Responds'
98 'The Fury of Kylo Ren'
99 'Shards of the Past'
100 'Luke's Grim Perspective
'101 'Ski Speeder Assault'
102 'Walkers Incoming'
103 'The Resistance'
104 'The Resistance X-wing
'105 'The Resistance A-wing'
106 'The Battle Commences
'107 'Frigates Under Fire'
108 'The Resistance Vs The First Order'
109 'The Millennium Falcon Flees
'110 'Heroes United'

Gemini wrote:Ill try post reys cards a bit later

One is foil and one is a normal one.  Maybe spacebaby can look into her numbers

Its  cool that it was death in the other cards because. He is dressed like the reaper but also death means change in tarot cards and he is changing

@Gemini

@palmettoblue

It is not coincidence topps is pretty consistent with it's numbers for first issue Star Wars main characters and function in the story and it's correspondence in tarot. Not sure if it is Topps or Hogwarts Academy aka LF is picking numbers for the cards.

So this is what I have so far http://www.slashfilm.com/star-wars-the-last-jedi-trading-cards/

• 91 Rey’s Solitude
  
  
• 92 General Leia Organa
  
  
• 93 Rey and her Lightsaber
  
  
• 100 Luke’s Grim Perspective
  
  
• 98 The Fury of Kylo Ren
  
  

For Rey's first card is 91 = 9 +1 = 10 


She pulls the wheel of fortune - It is funny because Canto Bight is a metaphor for fate and chance. 




The wheel is an apt symbol for the forces of Destiny and Fate. This cyclical structure of Fate is perhaps the only way to really understand how Fate manifests. 



92 for Leia = 9 + 2 = 11


This is the justice card , not sure what this means for Leia in EP8 maybe something to do with the Law of Karma


The two most important laws governed by Justice are really two sides of the same coin. First comes the law of cause and effect.





93 Rey and her lightsaber  9+3 = 12 This is really appropriate for Rey, since it was Luke who was upside down 3 times in ESB as the hanged man. Luke's perspective on the world changed when he found out Darth was his father. Rey's perspective will be turned upside down which is just to be expected in for the protaganist in the middle trilogy.






The Hanged Man's mysteries are some of the oddest yet most enlightening the Tarot has to offer, and they cannot be learned by searching for lessons in the physical world - you must turn within.



100 Luke's grim perspective 1+ 0 = 1 


This is to be expected Luke is the master magician in this story ( expect big things from Luke) The infinity sign is over the magicians head it is a sideways 8 this is episode 8 in the saga. 






The Magician's number is One, the number of creation and individuality; his power is transformation through the use of his will. In his manipulation of the basic elements  Clearly this is power of a divine sort, and it is true that the Magician is a conduit for a higher power, which commands all of the material world. 

• 98 The Fury of Kylo Ren 9+7 = 16 
  
  

Wow! the Tower Card  = Let go of the past, kill it if you have too...





This is the energy of the Tower card, an energy very similar to Death in that it is both a destructive and a creative force. When a building is old and decrepit, it must be demolished so that a new structure may stand in its place. The same is true of the symbolic Tower. When old attitudes and beliefs are outdated, you will have to let go of them, whether you like it or not.


http://www.ata-tarot.com/resource/cards/

Gemini wrote:Ill try post reys cards a bit later

One is foil and one is a normal one.  Maybe spacebaby can look into her numbers

Its  cool that it was death in the other cards because. He is dressed like the reaper but also death means change in tarot cards and he is changing

Edit - reys foil



Well sith,  sounds like the opening of A New Hope

Also look people think they night be revealing the plot:

91 'Rey's Solitude'
92 'General Leia Organa
'93 'Rey and her Lightsaber'
94 'On Crait'
95 'Rushing to Attack
'96 'Finn's Recovery
'97 'Poe Responds'
98 'The Fury of Kylo Ren'
99 'Shards of the Past'
100 'Luke's Grim Perspective
'101 'Ski Speeder Assault'
102 'Walkers Incoming'
103 'The Resistance'
104 'The Resistance X-wing
'105 'The Resistance A-wing'
106 'The Battle Commences
'107 'Frigates Under Fire'
108 'The Resistance Vs The First Order'
109 'The Millennium Falcon Flees
'110 'Heroes United'

@Gemini

Look guys... She's justice.  Holding saber in her right hand

Her number adds uo to 11 which is Justice



JUSTICE TAROT CARD MEANINGS AND DESCRIPTION

Justice is ruled by Libra and the card number is 11. The figure of Justice sits in her chair, cloaked in red and holding a sword in her right hand and scales in her left. She wears a crown with a small square on it representing well-ordered thoughts. Notice the clasp holding the cloak together. The square is the law protecting the circle and the eternal state of oneness within us all. The sword is double-edged, cutting both ways, signifying impartiality. It is point-up, signifying victory. The sword in her right hand demonstrates the logical, well-ordered mindset necessary to dispense fair justice. The scales are in her left, intuitive hand, showing that logic must be balanced by the intuition. A little white shoe pops out from beneath her cloak, reminding us of the spiritual consequences of our actions. The purple cloth draped behind her signifies compassion and the grey pillars represent the constraints of the physical world.

I’ve suggested on the Nailing Down the Timeline thread that these cards might provide some plot guidance....
This discussion is fascinating- nothing I would have ever thought of as my experience with Tarot is negligible. So very cool!

Gemini wrote:Ill try post reys cards a bit later

One is foil and one is a normal one.  Maybe spacebaby can look into her numbers

Its  cool that it was death in the other cards because. He is dressed like the reaper but also death means change in tarot cards and he is changing

Edit - reys foil



Well sith,  sounds like the opening of A New Hope

Also look people think they night be revealing the plot:

@Gemini

The justice card also has the scales of balance

PalmettoBlue wrote:

spacebaby45678 wrote:

Gemini wrote:Edit -

Here we go

@Gemini

Oh my oh my! Kylo's topps card is 32 = 3 + 2 = 5

Haha!

That is the emperor card in tarot. Renperor arrives  I just might smell a monologue for the ages at the end of EP8



Kylo's original issue TFA card was 67  6 + 7 = death

@spacebaby45678

Now that’s just cool on several levels.

Do you think coincidence or something more?

@PalmettoBlue

OMG! What an amazing analysis @gemini and @spacebaby45678!

May I complete with this from a previous post?

The official individual poster always reminded me of a card game.  Someone (sorry, don't remember who) pointed out that there was a heart in his poster.


So I came to the Jack of Heart that indeed holds a very specific meaning in comparison to other cards. The Jack of Hearts also called the "Christi" card is associated with the "Christi spirit of sacrificial love"


And to answer to your question @PalmettoBlue: nope I personally don't think that the symbolism behind cards is a coincidence. Like always, there may be overanalysis there but indeed in TFA he he is represented as some God of the Underworld bringing death and chaos , especially when he landso on Takodana. However, he is also associated to symbolism/characters that experience death and I don't think that the association with the Christi card is a coincidence. Death/Rebirth seems to be an important theme in Kylo's character arc.

1) Ben = Son (=Christ)


==> Death of the Son  


Meaning: end of the Skywalker lineage

2) Ben = Sun

Han: Snoke is using you for your power. When he gets what he wants, he'll crush you!

Admiral Ackbar: How is it possible to power a weapon of that size (=Snoke)?

Finn: It uses the power of the Sun (=Ben). As the weapon is charged, the Sun is drained until it disappears


In Egyptian mythology, the Sungod Râ is attacked by the giant snake Apophis, Egyptian God of chaos and darkness. When Apophis "kills" Râ,  a solar eclipse occurs, plunging the world is plunged into darkness:


Death of the Sun in TLJ

==> Meaning: chaos in the galaxy

3 Other characters that Kylo seem to parallel: Phoenixes, E.T. the Extraterrestrial, Beast, Princess Aurora, Princess Snow White
==> Common feature: experience death, to be reborn later....

Regarding the Emperor card and thus the possibility of Renperor, I had pointed out in the Adam Driver (Kylo Ren) in Episode VIII thread that I was personally unsettled by the strange duality of Kylo in the marketing, including his look in the official poster. On the one hand, the official trailer, teaser and so on... portray him as a vulnerable little boy and it seems like he will be torn apart from the very beginning of the movie. And it seems that he is still very much vulnerable as he is reaching out to Rey (?), which obviously happen rather in Act II/III of the movie given his scar. On the other hand, he is portraysed as a fearsome overconfident warlord, something that doesn't seem to fit with this character's arc. So how to reconcile this strange duality?

This strange duality was pointed out in this tumblr post:
http://daisyjazzisobel.tumblr.com/post/166814303083/eye-wars-as-i-was-randomly-editing-pictures-of

I tend to think that the dude is up to something there because Kylo's eyes in the official poster indeed look strangely cold, fearsome and rather evil. The eyes are the windows of the soul and therefore allow to perceive key difference between two identical persons. The eyes is hat allow me i.e. to differentiate  "evil" Prince Louis and "nice" Prince Philippe:


And let's keep in mind that we still have no explanation behind this shot of Kylo leading the FO stormtroopers on Crait although we pointed out in the Nailing down the timeline thread that this shot most likely happens after the events on Supremacy. So providing that Kylo "netrayed" Snoke on Supremacy by saving Rey, why would he lead the FO firetroops?

Personally, I've always had a bad feeling about this, because he is wearing the Vader cape here and that I don't interpret this as a good sign.

So I would come back to one of my headcanons, that I previously shared on the forum  (see: Kylo Ren in Episode 8): that Snoke could be the real Vader fanboy; that he possibly intends to become the young, handsome, fearsome and all powerful Emperor Vader intended to be; that he possible has been fashioning Vader spawn from birth for his huge agenda; that he will probably  "suck" his power to become one with  him, and thus taking his life and appearance; that Kylo may end as Renperor against his own will.

Bonus:


Rey (Seth) facing Snoke (Apophis) to deliver Ben (Râ) in Episode 9      
https://bigbluebeastbbb.deviantart.com/art/Apep-ate-Ra-156865072

The tarot analogy is quite interesting but I just wanted to point out that Kylo's tops card which totals to 5 would mean it is akin to the Heirophant, not the Emperor.

This points to Kylo being the spiritualist, not a ruler. He is a person struggling to do what is right but unsure of himself. It also points to him being a teacher/mentor to Rey.

panki wrote:The tarot analogy is quite interesting but I just wanted to point out that Kylo's tops card which totals to 5 would mean it is akin to the Heirophant, not the Emperor.

This points to Kylo being the spiritualist, not a ruler. He is a person struggling to do what is right but unsure of himself. It also points to him being a teacher/mentor to Rey.

@panki

Very true my mistake I was counting the card and not the number on the card either way I think Kylo takes the throne, occupied by Snoke... eventually.

@Reylo1992
Rian literally said:
“The important thing was not just to strengthen him, but to highlight the matter of “who” he actually is. He is not someone who is completely evil; the armour which he wraps himself in has cracks. I found one of those cracks and opened it up. Through this work, I hoped to understand him.”

As long as you don't assume Kylo heel-face-turns at the beginning or middle of the film, there's nothing to be unsettled about in Kylo leading stormtroopers on Crait. If anything all it does is call into question the Rey/Kylo vs. Praetorian guards on Supremacy headcanon, but as always everything makes sense when you realize that the "hand" scene is Kylo at the end, not Kylo in the middle, not Kylo at the beginning, not Kylo on Ahch-To, but Kylo in Act III closer to the end.

A lot of steps are missing, but it goes like this, imo:



It's like the stages of grief. We saw denial at the end of TFA, he quickly enters "anger". He'll spend a lot of time in the "anger" stage before moving on to the bargaining stage, the depression stage and finally the acceptance stage.

LadyHa wrote:

Darth Rowan wrote:Lol, @frolickingfizzgig. XD

Unrelated: on my drive home I just listened to a pretty chilling NPR feature about the might/greed of the mouse house and how they're using their leverage as "the most powerful film studio since MGM in 1930's" to strong arm theaters in their negotiations for rights to screen TLJ.

Apparently the theater has to agree to reserve the biggest theater in their cinema for 4 weeks for TLJ showings alone, and the studio gets 65% of all ticket sales. There are tiny towns in the Midwest of the U.S. that don't have enough people to fill a theater every day beyond 2 weeks, so they are opting out of screening TLJ.

It sounds like they are trying to ensure that TLJ lives up to the massive cash haul TFA made. I feel bad for the fans who are far from a major city, though.

@Darth Rowan

On the flip side of the tiny towns problem, I live in a large city, but the local movie houses I usually go to aren’t showing the TLJ in December (and January?) Several of the in-town theaters do first runs, but they are not big enough for Disney. It’s only playing at the big movie complexes in far away suburbs.

@LadyHa

Whoo-hoo! I take it all back, Disney.  The single screen Art Deco theatre very close to my house suddenly has tickets for sale and I am going opening week.  I hope they have enough business to play only this film for 4 weeks.

@reylo1992

RJ said:
“The important thing was not just to strengthen him, but to highlight the matter of “who” he actually is. He is not someone who is completely evil; the armour which he wraps himself in has cracks. I found one of those cracks and opened it up. Through this work, I hoped to understand him.”

Do you know which character was literally all armor in AOTC? General Greivious... ha ha! And do you know who found the crack and ripped it open? Obi Wan and do you know what was inside Grievious, basically the only thing left? His heart 



So I came to the Jack of Heart that indeed holds a very specific meaning in comparison to other cards. The Jack of Hearts also called the "Christi" card is associated with the "Christi spirit of sacrificial love"