Predictions for Episode 9

snufkin wrote:@special_cases Funny enough, it was Michael York in the caftan! Which is still a better look than Sean Connery's Zardoz mankini. Not sure what's going on with Jessica's, er outfit. There has to be a nude body stocking and massive amounts of bikini wax underneath it.

IoJovi wrote:

giaciak2 wrote:I read about Mortis now. I am wroste then ever ..... So Kylo could be the brother and Rey the sister. OH My God! Hope no ! I will be crazy!!!!  However . Because Anakin was the father and he failed. Kylo could be the father and Rey the mother. So they would leave for Mortis with their hypothetical sons (twins) and they would become the balance of strength. It is not the fairytale ending of my dreams. For me a fairytale ending is that he redeems himself and live in peace and happy with Rey, have children and the saga is closed  with the two suns and they embrace each other with or without force power. I find the idea of ​​killing the heroes a gesture of little imagination. Then we all became attached to them and to many people love Reylo now. And every day more and more again ... If they become dead Entities it means that there will be no more Reylo stories between Rey and Ben / Kylo. I ‘m a little sad .... I prefer a story like Raven and Bastilla . Because they can change sides many times and live many Reylo story ( episode XXI, XXII , XXIII)  in more future episodes. In my opinion, other Reylo could hope  for  a simple  happy  end. I’m going to cry in the bedroom

@giaciak2

It'll work out, I promise!  Please don't despair - we are getting our happy ending, i am sure of it.  The writers and creators all have confirmed that SW is based on fairytale and mythological elements.  And if you combine that with the yin yang elements, Ben cannot die.  The light cannot live without the dark.  I'm not saying he won't be redeemed, but I think Ben will always have that aspect about him and that's what he represents even if he atones for his transgressions.

When confronting how to approach the Sequel Trilogy, the first thing I assume they established was using the three films to reverse the tragedy of Anakin’s fall. So, in some ways, they found themselves hemmed in by what had come before, but also had some serious decisions to make concerning a final element: by subverting the tragic trope, it makes the narrative of the tragedy inapplicable, and it must be supplanted by something else. Also, because the poetic device used to reverse prior stanzas is palindrome, all major elements and roles needed to be reversed. That leads to a few conclusions that explain a LOT.

In reversing Anakin’s fall, the same tragic archetypes must be used for the new characters. However, because of the palindrome, the production’s hand was forced in a few areas. First, the heroic role had to be the female counterpart to the Usurper, taking the tragic figure out of the Hero’s role. This is key. If the tragic figure is not the capital-h Hero, the tragedy can be avoided if the Hero/Heroine’s Journey overrides the tragic conclusions.

.......

The Heroine’s Journey differs fundamentally from the Hero’s Journey in that the Heroine is much more attuned to the Shadow than a Hero, gaining mastery over the darkness through understanding instead of conflict. Another important distinction is the Heroine’s Journey’s interest in family, and the transition from childhood to womanhood to motherhood. Where the Hero’s Journey is more anodyne and chaste, the Heroine’s Journey is explicitly a journey of sexual awakening, with one of the elements including marriage to the Animus (often portrayed as Prince Charming, et al), and eventual consummation and sexual union with him. The Animus is a true counterpart, representing the yin to her yang, completing the whole, and this relationship is essential in the Heroine’s Journey.

There are many examples of conflation of elements in the Heroine’s Journey, and here, as in Beauty and the Beast, Kylo Ren is both an agent of the Shadow, and the Heroine’s Animus. Because the Heroine must confront and overcome the Shadow, and also wed the Animus, the major conflict of her Journey becomes freeing her lover from the Shadow’s influence.

Fairy tale offers a lot of rich territory to mine, but it’s short on substance. This is where narrative structure comes into play. You have the poetic goal, the tragic character archetypes, and the Heroine’s Journey running through it. But what structure will the story adopt?

This is the point where my analysis of the synergies of these elements hit a snag, even though it was staring me right in the damn face: the story is being told as a Byronic gothic romance. The first response to this might be: why? Because Star Wars uses what works. And the Byronic tradition is perhaps the most effective and emotionally resonant model that employs a capital-h Heroine with a tragic lover who must be freed from the darkness.

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Gothic romances very often end in tragedy (see Wuthering Heights), but only when there is no true capital-h Heroine to drive the narrative. When there is no true heroic figure, tragic flaws will rule the day in stories heavily tilted toward tragic ends. But in this iteration of Star Wars, we have a Heroine, whose mythic archetype and narrative role are tied up in the redemption of her lover, and since she’s on a Heroine’s Journey, and doesn’t have a tragic flaw herself, the rules of the game dictate she has to triumph.

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With this formula, it becomes very possible to game out what will happen in Episode IX with a startling degree of specificity. Remember, this is my interpretation, applying the formula I’ve detailed above and supplementing my own personal conjecture and assumptions as necessary. So, again acknowledging that some of these basic predictions have been made before, here goes:

Rey and Kylo will remain severed in their bond for the first part of the movie. They must be made to feel the sting of loneliness and recognize the incompletion only cured by the other’s presence in their lives.

Rey will find solace in her new family for awhile, but will not be able to replace the feeling of belonging and completion she feels with Kylo. This longing will act as a real source of conflict and represent a constant struggle to stave off the Shadow (the Dark Side).

Supreme Leader Kylo Ren will try to convince himself that he only used Rey to help him usurp Snoke’s throne, if only as an attempt to shield himself from the reality that he has been abandoned by his Queen, and will continue to seek her, but probably use the excuse of pursuing the Resistance as justification.

The Knights of Ren will appear as Kylo’s personal honor guard and act as military commanders as well, another poke in the eye to General Hux. The Knights will represent Kylo’s stated ideal to begin a new order of Force users, one that has its basis in the Dark Side. If this is the case, I foresee Rey tangling with at least one of them in the front half of the movie (she’ll probably kill the Knight, having no other choice, and giving the other Knights a vengeance incentive to track her down and kill her).

Leia’s death will cause a real shift in the status quo for both Rey and Kylo, as the shock of her passing will leave them both vulnerable. I assume this will cause the Force to join them, and they will have a reckoning about their parting and an acknowledgment/reinforcement of the feelings they have for each other (though it’s likely this will still remain implicit for the time being). Unless they go for the gold and have them initiate physical contact through the Force again, only this time without Uncle Luke outside the door (the tragic trope suggests physical contact here due to the loss of the Usurper’s birth mother, but that could be toned down or delayed for dramatic effect). It’s also entirely possible that this could actually be an in-person meeting, but I doubt that for plot reasons.

Rey’s connection with Kylo will be revealed to the Resistance. Not sure how this will happen exactly, but its effect will be to cause separation and distrust between Rey and her adopted family.

The consequences of the revelation of the Force Bond to the Resistance will cause the rebels to make a fatal mistake. The First Order will move to finish the Resistance, and this time it’ll be for good.

About this time, Kylo is going to find himself in the midst of some extreme conflict. The pull to the Light will be stronger than ever, and I anticipate he will call once more to Vader for guidance. Typically, Sith cannot be Force Ghosts, but Anakin was redeemed, so his spirit endures. I anticipate it will be a riven, tortured existence, and we’ll get some spectacular visual effect that shifts his ghost from blue to red, with the red one maimed, burned, and scarred. This experience will shake him to his foundations.

For her part, I wrestled with whether Rey would also receive supernatural guidance from Luke’s Force Ghost, but I’ve come down on the side of that not being the case. Rey is past the point in the Heroine’s Journey where she’s looking to father figures for guidance. Rey’s reconciliation with the mother figure will probably have to come through some form of interaction with something left behind by Leia, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see Maz Kanata reprise her quest giver role in a more motherly capacity, with a symbolic or literal passing of the torch, so to speak.

Having made his decision (“I know what I have to do” part 3?), Kylo will attempt to sabotage the First Order’s assault from the inside. This attempt will not go as planned (Kylo’s not much of a planner), and Hux’s long-anticipated coup will spring into action.

Having learned of his betrayal, the Knights of Ren will turn on Kylo, each of them having been trained to seek power over all else. I expect some of them will go with the assault force (which was at least partially successfully f**** up by Kylo’s attempt at sabotage— something that the Resistance will know was his doing), while the rest lie in wait to ambush Kylo as he goes to either escape or re-establish control.

During his fight with the Knights, Kylo will be badly wounded, but will manage to escape. Having made his way as far as he can on his own, he’ll either consciously or unconsciously call out to Rey through the Force.

Rey will hear his call and will go to him, and I expect that will be over the objection of her friends, and may result in Rey threatening violence against one of them (Finn, probably) if they try to stop her (still on the fence about this).

Finding him wounded, Rey and Kylo’s reunion will be cut short by the remaining Knights of Ren. Rey will fight them and hold her own for awhile, but will soon be overpowered, and an injured Kylo will join the fight and save her life. Together they’ll finish off the remaining Knights, thus bringing an early end to the new order.

Meanwhile, Hux and the First Order, having been more debilitated by Kylo’s betrayal than it first appeared, are losing to a resurgent Resistance fleet. Hux’s brief tenure as Supreme Leader will end in ignominy, his death coming in as humiliating a fashion as befits the smallness of his character.

The defeat of the First Order will be attended by Something Very Bad (I haven’t a clue as to what that could be, but suffice it to say I anticipate it would be some kind of kamikaze self-destruct protocol that’ll threaten both the Resistance fleet and a massive number of civilians).

Rey and Kylo, able to see this Something Very Bad happening from their vantage, will risk everything to save everyone else, and do something with the Force, working together, that will blow our minds. Like stop a Star Destroyer from falling on a city, or something equally as impossible. I expect this will involve them coming together physically (probably holding hands), to juxtapose them being separated at the end of TFA and TLJ.

The Resistance will be saved, and the First Order decimated beyond reckoning. Those who witnessed it know they were saved by the Force, and the only two people capable of wielding it in such a way.

AhsokaTano wrote:Wow that’s amazing ! Would love this - so many possibilities for what could happen in episode 9. Rey and Ben ending on anch to would explain why rey says to Luke on anch to “ I know this place from my dreams”. We assume at that point rey has dreamt of the island because it has led her to Luke and training but could be because her future is there. That would be beautiful.

Let The Past Die wrote:@snufkin

Another Wow from me, great find @snufkin

There are bits that seem familiar to me, but that's not surprising as you mention he credits others. But all these thoughts put together with his take on it, well I really enjoyed his take. I went to the link, and read his final thoughts on how he think it will end. I like his idea for that too.

Thanks for posting, and if on the off chance the author lurks here, well done to you. I'm going to ponder on these thoughts now.

Saracene wrote:I'm curious as to whether JJ will somehow continue the story of Rey's parents; I've grumbled plenty about how Rey's painful confrontation with the truth in the throne room gets quickly glossed over, but I wonder if they left it vague and unresolved on purpose so that they had an option of continuing the whole parents thread in the final episode.

I think that, no matter what predictions people had about Rey's family, we all sorta presumed that it somehow had a significance for the greater story, whether it was Reywalker or Rey's random parents getting killed by the FO. And while "horrible nobodies" has a nice thematic significance, Rey getting sold for drinking money has nothing to do with the bigger story and doesn't really leave her character with anything much going forward - no stronger motive to fight the FO, no greater link to the dark or light side. TLJ uses it mostly as a way to draw Rey and Kylo closer and to create a moment of vulnerability for Rey after the cave scene and in the throne room.

Saracene wrote:I'm curious as to whether JJ will somehow continue the story of Rey's parents; I've grumbled plenty about how Rey's painful confrontation with the truth in the throne room gets quickly glossed over, but I wonder if they left it vague and unresolved on purpose so that they had an option of continuing the whole parents thread in the final episode.

I think that, no matter what predictions people had about Rey's family, we all sorta presumed that it somehow had a significance for the greater story, whether it was Reywalker or Rey's random parents getting killed by the FO. And while "horrible nobodies" has a nice thematic significance, Rey getting sold for drinking money has nothing to do with the bigger story and doesn't really leave her character with anything much going forward - no stronger motive to fight the FO, no greater link to the dark or light side. TLJ uses it mostly as a way to draw Rey and Kylo closer and to create a moment of vulnerability for Rey after the cave scene and in the throne room.

rey09 wrote:

Saracene wrote:I'm curious as to whether JJ will somehow continue the story of Rey's parents; I've grumbled plenty about how Rey's painful confrontation with the truth in the throne room gets quickly glossed over, but I wonder if they left it vague and unresolved on purpose so that they had an option of continuing the whole parents thread in the final episode.

I think that, no matter what predictions people had about Rey's family, we all sorta presumed that it somehow had a significance for the greater story, whether it was Reywalker or Rey's random parents getting killed by the FO. And while "horrible nobodies" has a nice thematic significance, Rey getting sold for drinking money has nothing to do with the bigger story and doesn't really leave her character with anything much going forward - no stronger motive to fight the FO, no greater link to the dark or light side. TLJ uses it mostly as a way to draw Rey and Kylo closer and to create a moment of vulnerability for Rey after the cave scene and in the throne room.

@Saracene

Totally agree. I was glad they were nobodies but it wasn't used the best way. I was hoping she'd really grapple with it but no. Instead it's just a way for Kylo to lure her to his side and that's that. I was thinking though, it's silly to make a big deal of them and to not literally show their faces. Perhaps she will go back into her memories and/or find the pauper's grave. She should at least face them? Like we need to at least see them.

I was frustrated that they didn't even go into why she was special. Luke even senses she is different but then nothing comes of it really. Why does she have visions of the island? Do others also see it? I saw a picture on tumblr from the visual dictionary that Rey even senses she has some big destiny, but like why her??

snufkin wrote:
This is really good, including multiple shout outs to the writings/podcasting of various members here. Wouldn't be surprised if he lurks here and sounds like he's listened to the Jane Eyre podcast and has thoughts along those lines.

No One’s Ever Really Gone: The Synergy of The Heroic, Tragic, and Poetic Arcs in the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy

CienaRee wrote:

rey09 wrote:

Saracene wrote:I'm curious as to whether JJ will somehow continue the story of Rey's parents; I've grumbled plenty about how Rey's painful confrontation with the truth in the throne room gets quickly glossed over, but I wonder if they left it vague and unresolved on purpose so that they had an option of continuing the whole parents thread in the final episode.

I think that, no matter what predictions people had about Rey's family, we all sorta presumed that it somehow had a significance for the greater story, whether it was Reywalker or Rey's random parents getting killed by the FO. And while "horrible nobodies" has a nice thematic significance, Rey getting sold for drinking money has nothing to do with the bigger story and doesn't really leave her character with anything much going forward - no stronger motive to fight the FO, no greater link to the dark or light side. TLJ uses it mostly as a way to draw Rey and Kylo closer and to create a moment of vulnerability for Rey after the cave scene and in the throne room.

@Saracene

Totally agree. I was glad they were nobodies but it wasn't used the best way. I was hoping she'd really grapple with it but no. Instead it's just a way for Kylo to lure her to his side and that's that. I was thinking though, it's silly to make a big deal of them and to not literally show their faces. Perhaps she will go back into her memories and/or find the pauper's grave. She should at least face them? Like we need to at least see them.

I was frustrated that they didn't even go into why she was special. Luke even senses she is different but then nothing comes of it really. Why does she have visions of the island? Do others also see it? I saw a picture on tumblr from the visual dictionary that Rey even senses she has some big destiny, but like why her??

@rey09

I think the problem with Rey being a nobody isn't that it's required of her to have some special linage to be important but because it has no thematic resonance in a real lasting way.Now I don't know what's going to happen in 9 so I can't say for sure that it will be completely glossed over but unfortunately that was the case in TLJ. Unlike with Luke in ESB we don't see Rey grapple with the truth instead she pretty much reverts to the happy optimistic heroine...which isn't how you tell a story about your main character unless they want us to believe that Rey's purposely hiding her trauma behind a mask which would be a good explanation but we don't have enough proof about it yet to be one hundred percent sure.
My point is that unlike Kylo who's torn between his legacy/years of brainwashing and the man he wants/could be especially now that he's become Supreme Leader but is now alone more than ever right now Rey just doesn' have any interesting struggles she has to deal with besides Kylo because her parentage was used as a way to make her confrontation with Kylo even more poignant then what it truly means for her as a character.And while I'm not against Rey's parents being nobodies I think it would have been way more interesting had they been Imperials because while they would still have technically been nobodies it puts Rey in a more difficult position and gives more weight to her having to go against the FO instead of the only thing left for her is Beautiful Friendship pretty much.
I honestly don't know why Rian thought her parents being drunken nobodies would be the most difficult thing to hear when realizing her parents were on the side she was fighting against would have been equally if not more painful for Rey.

Night Huntress wrote:interesting- I don't see Kylo's proposal as temptation to the dark side... even as he offers to teach her in TFA he says "I can show you the ways of the force" compared with "I can show you the dark side..." .

I don't think Kylo cares wherever she "turns" to the dark side- he just wants her by his side.

I find it refreshing that not every powerful force-user is automatically tempted by the dark... her temptation isn't the darkness like being more powerful in the force or ruling over the galaxy. It's a Kylo/Ben as a person.

Saracene wrote:@ZioRen Rey's connection with Kylo and her conflicted feelings about him is really the only potential source of tension between her and the Resistance that I can see. I really don't see it being about their questionable tactics or ideology or anything like that, because they will still want us to root for them. But if they clash with Rey over Kylo, well it's understandable because nobody in the Resistance other than Rey has any reasons to feel charitable about him. To them he's just a hated enemy no. 1 who needs to be taken down.