Re: Predictions for Episode 9

by rawpowah Sun 10 Jun 2018, 9:37 am

nickandnora wrote:I really don't think they need an extra episode to finish this trilogy. I mean, I could envision how to end it and tie everything (all nine episodes) together, so I don't see how it's going to be a problem for them to do it.

And I don't say that as some kind of testament to my writing ability, or because I have an attachment to a particular storyline in my brain that I'm then going to be disappointed and angry about if I don't see. I say that because if I can come up with a way (or several ways) to finish everything in one more film, then surely the writers who have been thinking about this for far longer than I can do it, easily.

@nickandnora

Exactly! Fanfic writers can think of various ways to wrap up the story, so I'm sure JJ (also a writer) can as well.

Plus, there's this whole childhood-adolescence-adulthood structure that LF is selling, one which implies the story will culminate and wrap up in IX.

Luke's gone now, so there's no need to give him a TLJ length story arc anymore (if he appears as a cameo it will be to support the arc of the co-protagonists). We have no idea if we'll see Leia in IX (if they recast, we don't know how much we'll see of the new actress). And even if Leia is in IX she won't have scenes alone but with The Resistance/Kylo, so it will add to those storylines. Snoke is also gone, so more time saved. There really is no need to send Poe, Rose and Finn on separate storylines now that they've learned their lessons, so they can share a Resistance storyline in IX. Based on how TLJ ended, Rey will most likely be with the Resistance (at least in act I), so there's more time saved before hopefully we'll see her arc continue independent from the Resistance (as the protagonist).

So really at this point there's 2 main storylines imo: Resistance (with the Scooby Doo Gang), and FO (Kylo's storyline with the FO characters as supporting players). That's definitely less ground to cover than in TLJ, where everyone started in separate locations.

by Kylo Rey Sun 10 Jun 2018, 11:49 am

rawpowah wrote:
nickandnora wrote:I really don't think they need an extra episode to finish this trilogy. I mean, I could envision how to end it and tie everything (all nine episodes) together, so I don't see how it's going to be a problem for them to do it.

And I don't say that as some kind of testament to my writing ability, or because I have an attachment to a particular storyline in my brain that I'm then going to be disappointed and angry about if I don't see. I say that because if I can come up with a way (or several ways) to finish everything in one more film, then surely the writers who have been thinking about this for far longer than I can do it, easily.
@nickandnora

Exactly! Fanfic writers can think of various ways to wrap up the story, so I'm sure JJ (also a writer) can as well.

Plus, there's this whole childhood-adolescence-adulthood structure that LF is selling, one which implies the story will culminate and wrap up in IX.

Luke's gone now, so there's no need to give him a TLJ length story arc anymore (if he appears as a cameo it will be to support the arc of the co-protagonists). We have no idea if we'll see Leia in IX (if they recast, we don't know how much we'll see of the new actress). And even if Leia is in IX she won't have scenes alone but with The Resistance/Kylo, so it will add to those storylines. Snoke is also gone, so more time saved. There really is no need to send Poe, Rose and Finn on separate storylines now that they've learned their lessons, so they can share a Resistance storyline in IX. Based on how TLJ ended, Rey will most likely be with the Resistance (at least in act I), so there's more time saved before hopefully we'll see her arc continue independent from the Resistance (as the protagonist).

So really at this point there's 2 main storylines imo: Resistance (with the Scooby Doo Gang), and FO (Kylo's storyline with the FO characters as supporting players). That's definitely less ground to cover than in TLJ, where everyone started in separate locations.

@rawpowah

Agreed. The storylines are now more streamlined and grouped together with more of the characters spending screentime with each other instead of being scattered all over the place (which in TLJ, led to even more characters being introduced to support the mains e.g. Holdo for Poe, DJ and Rose for Finn). The interesting thing is, Rey is separated from her friends/Luke about the halfway point in both movies so far, leading to her spending time with Kylo alone (in intimate fashion) whether unwillingly as in TFA or willingly as in TLJ. I expect the same to happen in IX, but at an earlier point in the movie with the way the story has been set up for the final chapter. They'll probably be alone again too.

by snufkin Sun 10 Jun 2018, 1:14 pm

While it is possible that Holdo's kamikaze run wiped out any security camera footage Hux could use to prove his suspicions, still think he's going to stay suspicious, connive to get rid of Kylo, and be more than a punchline (and punching bag) in IX. You don't set up that amount of sibling rivalry and office politics/backstabbing for nothing. He may not be a Blowfeld type of big bad, but he's being set up to cause trouble. And DG is clearly chomping at the bit to move on from the type of nice guy male ingenues he's been cast in prior to the ST, including making the obligatory "it's fun to be evil" type comments while his coworkers make the obligatory "he's so nice and different from who he plays" (and notice who's never engaged in one of those conversations?). I'd expect at the least that Hux has to be suspicious that the all powerful Kylo Ren has had his a** whupped twice by a girl who's almost a foot shorter than him and she's managed to escape both times.

Related to potential plots and arcs for IX, but Kyle Buchanan of NY Magazine (AKA the guy who wrote the "9 Most Horny Things about TLJ" and KMT interview) brings up a point I hope will not be what we see too much of in IX, the contrived conflict/battle because that's how all blockbusters are. Part of the pleasure of the ST for me is in simply seeing these two characters encounter and bounced off of one another. That's what I liked about TFA, that's what I wanted from TLJ, and that's what I got out of TLJ. So I'm hoping for more of the same.

Predictions for Episode 9 - Page 30 DfTTcBHV4AA-rYt

Predictions for Episode 9 - Page 30 DfTTcBHV4AA-rYt

It's from an article he wrote about how "conflict is overrated"

while most moviegoers at the Toronto Film Festival went gonzo for The Martian, I still talked to a few people who felt the movie went down too smooth. They expected a bad guy, or a supporting cast culled down by just-for-the-sake-of-it deaths. Without the usual signposts, they were as adrift as Matt Damon's astronaut.

But sometimes it's nice when you don't know what to expect. Too many movies model themselves after existing works, resulting in conflict-laden characters and plot points that feel derivative; meanwhile, too few movies present the people we aspire to be like and give us the exceptional escapism that we want out of cinema. I like a good antihero as much as the next guy, but both real life and cable TV are now filled to the brim with people making moral compromises. Maybe it's more daring just to be good.

by BB-Rey Sun 10 Jun 2018, 4:58 pm

Speaking of writers, I was going through quotes from Chris Terrio to see what his philosophy for writing is and a few of them give me great hope, especially for Rey and Kylo.

Here's how he described Batman and Superman (Reminded me most of Rey and Kylo):

“ I began to think Batman and Superman occupy different parts of the mythic imagination. In superhero stories, Batman is Pluto, god of the underworld, and Superman is Apollo, god of the sky. That began to be really interesting to me—that their conflict is not just due to manipulation, but their very existence. In the end, there’s a common humanity which I think is discovered at a certain moment in the film.”

An Understanding of History and Lore:

" This has been the most rigorous intellectual exercise I’ve had in my writing life. For 'Batman v Superman,' I wanted to really dig into everything from ideas about American power to the structure of revenge tragedies to the huge canon of DC Comics to Amazon mythology. For iJustice League,' I could be reading in the same day about red- and blueshifts in physics, Diodorus of Sicily and his account of the war between Amazons and Atlanteans, or deep-sea biology and what kind of life plausibly might be in the Mariana Trench."

" If you told me the most rigorous dramaturgical and intellectual product of my life would be superhero movies, I would say you were crazy. But I do think fans deserve that. I felt I owed the fan base all of my body and soul for two years because anything less wouldn’t have been appreciating the opportunity I had.”

He also spoke about how the Prequel Trilogy will be intertwined with Episode IX as it makes it feel like everything happens in the same universe. I think more and more he was the best writing partner we could ask for in co-writing Episode IX with J.J. as he seems to understand the balance needed for bringing a story to a close.

by SoloSideCousin Sun 10 Jun 2018, 5:21 pm

BB-Rey wrote:Speaking or writers, I was going through quotes from Chris Terrio to see what his philosophy for writing is and a few of them give me great hope, especially for Rey and Kylo.

Here's how he described Batman and Superman (Reminded me most of Rey and Kylo):

“ I began to think Batman and Superman occupy different parts of the mythic imagination. In superhero stories, Batman is Pluto, god of the underworld, and Superman is Apollo, god of the sky. That began to be really interesting to me—that their conflict is not just due to manipulation, but their very existence. In the end, there’s a common humanity which I think is discovered at a certain moment in the film.”

An Understanding of History and Lore:

" This has been the most rigorous intellectual exercise I’ve had in my writing life. For 'Batman v Superman,' I wanted to really dig into everything from ideas about American power to the structure of revenge tragedies to the huge canon of DC Comics to Amazon mythology. For iJustice League,' I could be reading in the same day about red- and blueshifts in physics, Diodorus of Sicily and his account of the war between Amazons and Atlanteans, or deep-sea biology and what kind of life plausibly might be in the Mariana Trench."

" If you told me the most rigorous dramaturgical and intellectual product of my life would be superhero movies, I would say you were crazy. But I do think fans deserve that. I felt I owed the fan base all of my body and soul for two years because anything less wouldn’t have been appreciating the opportunity I had.”

He also spoke about how the Prequel Trilogy will be intertwined with Episode IX as it makes it feel like everything happens in the same universe. I think more and more he was the best writing partner we could ask for in co-writing Episode IX with J.J. as he seems to understand the balance needed for bringing a story to a close.

@BB-Rey

He sounds like a very intelligent and insightful fellow.

I heard that the Batman v. Superman movie was not great, but I also heard that Terrio's script was messed with (perhaps by Zach Snyder?). Further, the BvS issues may be down to Snyder, who can get really excessive sometimes, particularly with destruction.

OTOH, Terrio won the Oscar when he worked with Ben Affleck on Argo. Affleck is probably more conscientious of a writer's role given his Good Will Hunting background. I think JJ is very similar. He knew that he needed Kasdan, and he has nothing but wonderful things to say about Terrio, including how brilliant he is.

Oh and another thing, Terrio is now writing a script for a James Ivory movie, the same James Ivory that just won the Oscar for Call Me By Your Name, so Terrio must be decently respected.

by BB-Rey Sun 10 Jun 2018, 5:38 pm

@SoloSideCousin

He does. Which is certainly something I apperciate with how Rian delivered a more intellectual movie in The Last Jedi than The Force Awakens. I think the right balance of fun and adventure with philosophical elements is one of it's great strengths and within Star Wars in general. We need that underlying feel.

I haven't seen it but this wouldn't surprise me. I also saw on Wikipedia that David S. Goyer was part of the writing process and he has a history of saying things that are controversial. So, I'm sure it was a combination of both Zach Snyder and him. I have more hope with a writer like J.J. co-writing with him.

Absolutely! I think a good writing partner can make all the difference, we saw a bit with Attack of the Clones what happens when sand covers the scripts of both writers. Very Happy

by Kylo Rey Sun 10 Jun 2018, 7:20 pm

@SoloSideCousin @BB-Rey I watched the extended Batman v Superman Ultimate Edition and to my surprise, I did enjoy it. It's not a good movie though. Supposedly Terrio was mostly involved with dialogue and character arcs, and I read that he was mostly involved with the Batman & Alfred scenes, which were far and away the best parts of the movie. Quite dark and gothic (which Batman generally is tbf). As a DC fan, that Batman/Superman story has been done much better in the animation - The Dark Knight Returns, Part 1 & Part 2, I highly recommend it for a much superior take on the same story (which was honestly quite amazing and not kiddie-ish at all). The Justice League thing was a massive mess, Whedon changed up a lot of things apparently and it's hard to make out who was involved with what.

As for Goyer, he did help write Nolan's TDK trilogy, but I'm assuming the sheer talent of the Nolan brothers was what pulled that trilogy through, as Goyer isn't considered to be a good writer.

If you're looking to replicate the fun, light movie that TFA was, I wouldn't be looking at a writer such as Terrio tbh. He tends to err on the darker, philosophical side (from what I've seen) which is probably a clue as to what JJ wants for IX. The Art director he hired also seems to support this notion (look at the stuff he's worked on: BR 2049, Game of Thrones S1, Children of Men, Skyfall, Prometheus etc). I just hope he can rein in his worst sensibilities and we don't get a BvS/JL level disaster (which KK probably wouldn't let happen anyway. Besides, Abrams/Terrio seem like a better fit in balancing each other out than Snyder/Terrio does).

by BB-Rey Sun 10 Jun 2018, 7:50 pm

@Kylo Rey

How you describe him as a writer and the points you make about the art director hired too make me think Episode IX will be mostly a balance.

I think this lends to my theory I have that Kylo doesn't fully turn back clear cut on the Light Side and Rey doesn't fully turn over to the Dark Side. They'll be more in the middle. A balance. Both are the unity of the Force or in terms of story, the Balance of the Force. I do wonder if Anakin's Force Ghost could play any part in the unity. Especially as Luke never talks about him to Rey except as Darth Vader. It certainly feels more and more like Episode IX is what brings a sense of closure to this story. Not just for this trilogy but for each that came before it.

I'm also going to take up your recommendation of watching both parts of The Dark Knight Returns. Smile

by Kylo Rey Mon 11 Jun 2018, 12:30 pm

On the subject of Terrio and pertinent to what we were discussing yesterday @SoloSideCousin @BB-Rey, this just popped up on my TL today.

Predictions for Episode 9 - Page 30 Img_0712

That is insane!

by SoloSideCousin Mon 11 Jun 2018, 1:19 pm

Kylo Rey wrote:On the subject of Terrio and pertinent to what we were discussing yesterday @SoloSideCousin @BB-Rey, this just popped up on my TL today.

That is insane!

@Kylo Rey

Add to that the fact that Joss Whedon added his own huge stamp to Justice League when he took over. Check this out:

http://www.indiewire.com/2017/11/justice-league-joss-whedon-wga-screenplay-director-credit-33-percent-contribution-1201898421/

So who knows what Chris Terrio wrote of that movie?

by Tex Mon 11 Jun 2018, 1:39 pm

Chris24601 wrote:
Kylo Rey wrote:There's a big difference between releasing a movie with controversial and bold decisions (which has still yielded huge amounts of backlash) and straight up lying for 5/6 however many years to the audience and making them shell out even more money and having to wait even longer to see how it all ends.
@Kylo Rey
It wouldn’t be lying for years if, when JJ and Co. sat down after TLJ to write the script for IX, they realized there was just no good way to wrap up what RJ set in motion inside of a 2.5-3 hour film. That’s legitimately happened to me as a writer when I started with a length in mind and then in the course of writing found that I couldn’t wrap it up in a satisfying way within the space allotted. I didn’t lie, I was just wrong.

If in the next couple months JJ came out and said “we tried to keep it a trilogy, but after everything RI laid out in TLJ we just can’t resolve it all in the span of a single film and we care too much about getting the resolution to the Skywalker Saga right... we’re going to have to split what would have been Episode IX into two films” I think people would understand.

* * * *

My biggest issue with wrapping my head around IX as an ending is that I just have a hard time seeing how Hux can be presented as a remotely credible villain to wrap up the trilogy of trilogies that are the Saga films. There was a reason Peter Jackson cut the Scouring of the Shire from the Lord of the Rings films (and it certainly wasn’t for length); it was because it was a complete anticlimax after the destruction of the One Ring and Sauron in a visual medium (as the culmination of Frodo, Sam, Merry and Pippin’s inner struggles it worked in the books, because books are a medium that can take you into the interior struggles of a character and make just deciding to walk out the front door a titanic victory because we experience the thoughts and fears of the agoraphobic protagonist).

But that’s immensely difficult to do in a visual medium like film... and particularly in an action film. That’s why films rely on external forces to embody a character’s inner struggle so they can be overcome in a satisfying way for the visual medium. If Return of the Jedi had been only a novel it probably wouldn’t have even needed the Emperor because Vader’s internal struggle between the power of the dark and the love for his son could have been conveyed through his thoughts... the struggle between whether to use Luke’s mercy against him as the dark is tempting him to or casting out the dark that was sustaining him to embrace his son one last time would have been every bit as powerful in a novel. Just before that Luke could have struggled with the hatred being fed to him by the dark in that moment and powerfully overcome it in an inner struggle.

But that would look nonsensical on screen without access to their thoughts. We’d see Luke batter Vader to the ground and finally stop just short of the killing blow and Vader embrace his son only to die. The Darkness needed to be externalized and thus, the Emperor... whose only importance to the actual narrative was to give voice to the darkness inside both Luke and Vader and for that darkness to then be vanquished.

And that’s why, if Kylo is to become Ben Solo again there has to be someone that embodies his internal struggle in the story for him to overcome and Hux just doesn’t feel up to that role. That’s why Ben overcoming Snoke in TLJ was so powerful; because Snoke was the external and visible manifestation of his inner struggle and his overcoming it in that moment for Rey. Short of having to literally face down a manifestation of Vader himself (i.e. everything Ben was trying to be as Kylo Ren) I struggle to think of anyone in the Saga who could embody the darkness Kylo needs to overcome to become Ben Solo again.

And maybe that IS the answer. Maybe to bring this full circle the story needs to go to someplace so steeped in the dark side for its climax that Vader himself can be physically manifested from Ben’s subconscious, faced and exorcised. Ben and Rey against Vader as the literal embodiment of the Dark Side that must be overcome to save the galaxy would be something external and visually evocative that really would work as a narrative climax to everything from Episode 1-9... the true end of Vader’s legacy. Have Vader goading him right up until we hear Han’s voice call out to Ben at the critical moment and you’d have the type of closure you’d need for the Skywalker Saga.

So that’s my new prediction... We’ll see Vader in some fashion near IX’s climax to embody the Dark Side of the Force that Kylo must overcome to finally become Ben Solo again.

@Chris24601

I've been meaning to reply to this for days lol. So regarding whether they will need to split the last film into two films. I mean it's possible, but as others have stated on here I don't see why they can't wrap everything up in IX. Though the selfish part of me would be a little excited at the prospect of another film. Also who says it's going to be a perfect red bow scenario wrapping up the ST? They may intentionally leave a few loose ends for whoever to come in years down the road and continue on.

So right after TLJ came out I had a similar line of thought and discussion with a friend regarding Kylo/Ben's internal struggle. Now that Snoke is gone who or what does he need to face down to finally find redemption? Is it Hux? Maybe, but as you said it's hard to get invested when you see Hux getting tossed around like a rag doll by Kylo. It could be some deeper more mysterious organization inside the FO that Kylo has to overcome? Maybe it's crazy Poe? Who knows? But I will say that the idea of Kylo/Ben confronting his inner demons, to me, would be the most fascinating. Your suggestion of Darth Vader, it's a great callback to Luke in the cave on Dagobah. I love the idea of a Vader being conjured up and Kylo has to physically confront the Skywalker legacy, the dark side. He's facing down his own short comings filling that legacy.

My take on who Kylo/Ben needs to face down is himself. He's coded as two separate people right now. He is Kylo Ren, but he is Ben Solo and there is this disconnect between him acknowledging that he's both of these people. We've talked about it a bunch on the forum, that one of the main focuses in the ST is excepting the darker aspects of yourself, incorporating your shadow. So my potential crack theory lol is that Kylo/Ben is split into two people. A struggle between his light side and his dark side. Ben Solo facing down Kylo Ren. With the outcome of said fight being the realization that they are both the same person. That's it's not about defeating the light or the darkness within you, but accepting them as equal aspects of yourself. Kylo Ren stands there similar to Obi-Wan facing down Darth Vader and lets himself get cut down by his light side, by Ben Solo. He lets the light in. Hokey? Yeah, I know lol, but I feel like you can even pull Rey into this because right now she's sort of refusing to see Kylo Ren as Ben Solo. The way she says to Luke "Did you create Kylo Ren" as if he's this other being, the monster. Yet, Ben Solo is "Our only hope". And I think the more she reads the Jedi texts the more she's going to realize things aren't so black and white. Also what a conundrum she would be in if we have Kylo facing Ben Solo.

On a side note. Who wouldn't want Adam Driver acting opposite Adam Driver? It's double the viewing pleasure Laughing

by snufkin Tue 12 Jun 2018, 2:10 pm

@Tex I definitely think the takeaway at the end of TLJ is that while saving people (doing for others what nobody did for her) is what drives Rey, while she can save him from Snoke and in part from Luke, what she can't do is save him from himself. He's faced down Snoke and now the hard part starts, facing down himself. As much as I would've loved a scenario where they teamed up and ran off together at the end of the film, I think that it's deliberate to separate them because his character especially needs to overcome his own worst/fearful tendencies if he's able to survive and move forward.

by Tex Tue 12 Jun 2018, 3:14 pm

@Snufkin

Exactly! I was getting a little crack-ish over here lol, but the main take away is that Kylo needs to save himself. He needs to face down his past, his fears, his insecurities and decide on what he wants for his future. If he wants Rey in his life, he needs to figure out what that means to him. Rey can't do that for him. And I think what @Chris24601 and what I'm trying to get at is that in a visual medium, like film, it's better to have a physical entity representing that obstacle. Such as the Emperor being a vehicle for expressing and narrating the internal struggles going on inside of both Darth Vader and Luke.

However, seeing as we have JJ at the helm of IX he could opt for more symbolism over a physical person to overcome. We know he loves fairy tales, he hints at their influence in TFA commentary. We've got that Sun/Son metaphor in TFA for example. JJ may just surprise us with some fabulously placed metaphors and symbolism.

by Geralt_Riv Tue 12 Jun 2018, 3:17 pm

@Tex
Do you mean something like this? Smile

by Tex Tue 12 Jun 2018, 3:33 pm

@Geralt_Riv

Yes, that is what I mean Very Happy

Except instead of a dark side version of Kylo manifesting, because Kylo Ren is his dark side persona, it's his light side, it's Ben Solo.

by snufkin Tue 12 Jun 2018, 3:46 pm

@Tex Now you've got my mind wandering off in the direction of the bonkers type of scenes Hugh Grant did for Paddington 2 for his actor character. Though that character is a straight up baddie and has no internal conflict, more of a Hux type of person. I definitely think the take away from Rey slamming the door in his face is that she can save him from Snoke, but she can't save him from himself. That's on him and he's going to have to face down his fears/the past while taking on Hux and the FO apparatus.

by Casper Tue 12 Jun 2018, 6:34 pm

snufkin wrote:@Tex Now you've got my mind wandering off in the direction of the bonkers type of scenes Hugh Grant did for Paddington 2 for his actor character. Though that character is a straight up baddie and has no internal conflict, more of a Hux type of person. I definitely think the take away from Rey slamming the door in his face is that she can save him from Snoke, but she can't save him from himself. That's on him and he's going to have to face down his fears/the past while taking on Hux and the FO apparatus.

@snufkin

Which, for somebody who wants to "kill the past" is not going to be easy for him. Maybe Rey will finally get it through to him that some things about the past matter. And maybe she'll learn that that doesn't mean you should hold on to it so tightly. So, like with everything else (obviously, this doesn't count those times when Kylo's gone off on a tantrum), they're both right.

FWIW, I think IX is basically going to start with Hux turning the tables on Ren and trying to take over. They need to get Kylo away from the FO so he start to deal with his family issues and other things. I can't see him doing that while he's 'Supreme Leader.'

by snufkin Tue 12 Jun 2018, 9:18 pm

@Casper Prior to Carrie Fisher passing away, I was 100% pulling for Ben and Leia to some kind of family therapy session scene in IX like her cameo in Austin Powers or Debbie Reynold's whole slow burn passive aggressive mother-son act with Albert Brooks in Mother. But you're right, being Supreme Leader of the First Order, which are the Imperial Remnants who want to bring back the Empire, when he clearly wants to be free of the past and wanted to start something brand new with Rey, that's not going go well for him. Especially when the whole "you're not Vader" line is one of the biggest meta statements in the film because he smashed the mask and unlike Vader, managed to actually both off his master and save the woman he loves. So I'm wondering if we'll get some type of stucture again like TFA where he's with the First Order for the First Act and then midway through the Second Act is with he's reunited with Rey and the real conflict/story goes down. That plus a small time jump would be enough time for him to look around and realize what s*** he's gotten himself in to and for Hux to start putting a serious scheme into play.

by Lily Snape Wed 13 Jun 2018, 12:58 am

Tex wrote:@Geralt_Riv

Yes, that is what I mean

Except instead of a dark side version of Kylo manifesting, because Kylo Ren is his dark side persona, it's his light side, it's Ben Solo.

@Tex

Someone needs to insert the Kermit/ Dark Kermit meme here. But seriously, I’m reminded of Gollum and Sméagol, so it’s been done. Smile

However, that seems more art-house/ Rian to me. I would imagine that JJ would find a more conventional way of indicating the conflict— a confession to Rey (or Leia if she were still around) seems like a good option.

by tukicarreno Wed 13 Jun 2018, 7:50 am

Kylo Rey wrote:Agreed. The storylines are now more streamlined and grouped together with more of the characters spending screentime with each other instead of being scattered all over the place (which in TLJ, led to even more characters being introduced to support the mains e.g. Holdo for Poe, DJ and Rose for Finn). The interesting thing is, Rey is separated from her friends/Luke about the halfway point in both movies so far, leading to her spending time with Kylo alone (in intimate fashion) whether unwillingly as in TFA or willingly as in TLJ. I expect the same to happen in IX, but at an earlier point in the movie with the way the story has been set up for the final chapter. They'll probably be alone again too.

Yep. If Reylo is going to fully happen, JJ can't keep them separated the whole movie and just have them meet towards the end. So most likely Rey will abandon the resistance or go on her own around the second act. Either that or they continue to communicate through the force bonds as the story unfolds...

by SW_Heroine_Journey Wed 13 Jun 2018, 8:24 am

The big bad for IX - especially because Snoke is dead, reverse Amidala and full circle...could it be Palpatine? (He possibly was always the big bad for the ST - but is now doing the big reveal).

I credit/blame Very Happy

Wayward Jedi, yet in his videos about the Rebels episodes for 'A World Between Worlds' and the series finale, along with his video about TLJ's novel...he wonders if the mentions/focus on Palpatine are foreshadows of his influence in the ST. The Rebels episodes indicate Palpatine's obsession with becoming god-like (he said that is especially in the first Thrawn novel, the next is published next month) and needing access to the World Between Worlds, and he wondered if that might be continuing? Plus, the TLJ novelization vaguely mentions the Emperor's contingency plans, the unknown worlds (more mysteries related to the spiritual dark side)...just seems to point to something. ? Perhaps?

Then, because I am a new SW fan thanks to TLJ - and to become more aware of things, I purchased 'Star Wars Made Easy' (a part of Disney/Lucasfilm's publication Journey to Star Wars: The Last Jedi.)

There is an interesting inclusion with the Episode 4 Chapter, and the section 'Why Does Obi-Wan Sacrifice Himself?' There is a smaller section - Q&A format.

"Question: Can You Become One with the Dark Side of the Force?
Answer: If it's possible, no one has ever managed it! Dark Side Force users make the mistake of trying to preserve a physical form at all costs. They are too greedy to give up their living bodies in search of something more spiritual."

For me...the answer...with the if inclusion seems wink-wink. As Palpatine was plummeting after Anakin/Vadar proceeded with saving Luke...because of his seeking of god-like powers, he might have given up his living body in search of something more spiritual....

We shall see! Very Happy

by snufkin Wed 13 Jun 2018, 1:40 pm

Two things I'm curious to see if they'll take the time to address in conversations/confrontations:

1. The inevitable reunion between Rey and Ben, will she get pissed at him not just for how whole Supreme A**hole meltdown after the fight with the PG/Crait, but whether or not he killed Snoke to protect her or if it had to do with getting power. Part of his whole figuring his s**t out in IX has to be realizing that what mattered the most, in the end, was protecting somebody he loved. Especially after what happened with Han. Would that be part of him realizing that the whole power thing, if it means being like Snoke or Hux, isn't what it's cracked up to be.

2. Anything about the fight with Finn. I'm still surprised how Rey never even brought it up with him in the early Force Skype scenes and maybe once just asked Chewie to ask after him. It was otherwise just that she was personally angry at Ben for killing his father because of her own experience of being abandoned and b/c of their whole bond/empathy with one another, being disappointed/angry with him for doing something like that. Never mentioned Finn once, the same way they dropped the ball on his injuries being addressed other than the bacta suit gag.

by Tex Wed 13 Jun 2018, 2:08 pm

Lily Snape wrote:
Tex wrote:@Geralt_Riv

Yes, that is what I mean

Except instead of a dark side version of Kylo manifesting, because Kylo Ren is his dark side persona, it's his light side, it's Ben Solo.
@Tex
Someone needs to insert the Kermit/ Dark Kermit meme here. But seriously, I’m reminded of Gollum and Sméagol, so it’s been done. However, that seems more art-house/ Rian to me. I would imagine that JJ would find a more conventional way of indicating the conflict— a confession to Rey (or Leia if she were still around) seems like a good option.

@Lily Snape

Predictions for Episode 9 - Page 30 Kermit10

Credit for this goes to teenagecriminalmastermind on Tumblr

by Night Huntress Wed 13 Jun 2018, 2:31 pm

snufkin wrote:Two things I'm curious to see if they'll take the time to address in conversations/confrontations:

1. The inevitable reunion between Rey and Ben, will she get pissed at him not just for how whole Supreme A**hole meltdown after the fight with the PG/Crait, but whether or not he killed Snoke to protect her or if it had to do with getting power. Part of his whole figuring his s**t out in IX has to be realizing that what mattered the most, in the end, was protecting somebody he loved. Especially after what happened with Han. Would that be part of him realizing that the whole power thing, if it means being like Snoke or Hux, isn't what it's cracked up to be.

they need to talk things out- desperately. It won't be easy...Ben master of evading and deflecting all conversations and Rey of Sunshine the princess of "shoot first talk later". Rolling Eyes

I want a confession session- both of them finally talking about their feelings and motivations.
Because Ben believes she betrayed him or at least thought she only went to him because she wanted to turn him for the cause- not because she had a personal interest in him. I'm not sure what Rey believes at this point- because it's kept very ambiguous...but I imagine she thinks Ben choose power over her and I'm not sure she knows he killed Snoke mainly to protect her.

snufkin wrote:
2. Anything about the fight with Finn. I'm still surprised how Rey never even brought it up with him in the early Force Skype scenes and maybe once just asked Chewie to ask after him. It was otherwise just that she was personally angry at Ben for killing his father because of her own experience of being abandoned and b/c of their whole bond/empathy with one another, being disappointed/angry with him for doing something like that. Never mentioned Finn once, the same way they dropped the ball on his injuries being addressed other than the bacta suit gag.

@snufkin

Yes, I agree- I'm hoping we'll get a confrontation between Ben & Finn personally in IX...would be great for tension and drama.
I feel there is unfinished business between the two of them.

I have to admit I was a little bit disappointed the injuries Rey inflicted on Ben weren't mentioned at all in TLJ. I hope we will get something about it in IX (scar touching! Mwehe

)

by Kylo Rey Wed 13 Jun 2018, 3:06 pm

Night Huntress wrote:
snufkin wrote:Two things I'm curious to see if they'll take the time to address in conversations/confrontations:

1. The inevitable reunion between Rey and Ben, will she get pissed at him not just for how whole Supreme A**hole meltdown after the fight with the PG/Crait, but whether or not he killed Snoke to protect her or if it had to do with getting power. Part of his whole figuring his s**t out in IX has to be realizing that what mattered the most, in the end, was protecting somebody he loved. Especially after what happened with Han. Would that be part of him realizing that the whole power thing, if it means being like Snoke or Hux, isn't what it's cracked up to be.

they need to talk things out- desperately. It won't be easy...Ben master of evading and deflecting all conversations and Rey of Sunshine the princess of "shoot first talk later".
I want a confession session- both of them finally talking about their feelings and motivations.
Because Ben believes she betrayed him or at least thought she only went to him because she wanted to turn him for the cause- not because she had a personal interest in him. I'm not sure what Rey believes at this point- because it's kept very ambiguous...but I imagine she thinks Ben choose power over her and I'm not sure she knows he killed Snoke mainly to protect her.

snufkin wrote:
2. Anything about the fight with Finn. I'm still surprised how Rey never even brought it up with him in the early Force Skype scenes and maybe once just asked Chewie to ask after him. It was otherwise just that she was personally angry at Ben for killing his father because of her own experience of being abandoned and b/c of their whole bond/empathy with one another, being disappointed/angry with him for doing something like that. Never mentioned Finn once, the same way they dropped the ball on his injuries being addressed other than the bacta suit gag.
@snufkin

Yes, I agree- I'm hoping we'll get a confrontation between Ben & Finn personally in IX...would be great for tension and drama.
I feel there is unfinished business between the two of them.

I have to admit I was a little bit disappointed the injuries Rey inflicted on Ben weren't mentioned at all in TLJ. I hope we will get something about it in IX (scar touching! )

@Night Huntress

Well if we get a kiss it's 99% going to include face touching so you'll probably get your wish Very Happy

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