Rey and Kylo Ren observations

Gemini wrote:Don't quite know where to put this but just realised why lots of people hate ren.

He's the reason the happy ending in RotJ is destroyed lol. People were happy with the conclusion and now...

I think that's what botheres people most maybe

To many, he's the reason han and leia broke up, the reason Luke is lost and not a hero at the moment

@Gemini

Which is ironic because according to JJ Abrams and Adam Driver - not to mention the increasing hints in 'Bloodline' and the Aftermath novels - Han and Leia's failings as parents and Luke's as a mentor are the reason for Kylo Ren.

questions for the experts: how many heroine's journeys are out there? which one do you think they used for Rey's? I wanted to write something about this and what it could mean for Ben and Rey's journeys in the next 2 chapters, thanks

@Maria Antonietta

Well, obviously, there are all the Beauty and the Beast-esque stories: the original tale, of course, and Cupid and Psyche since BatB is basically a kid-friendly version of the tale (XD), East of the Sun, West of the Moon, One Thousand One Nights, and if you want to get into modern fairytales, there's Buffy, of course.

Otherwise, there's all the gothic fiction as well since Reylo does show some vibes of it, and Jane Eyre is a fantastic example of a narrative we can compare to how Reylo could unfurl.

Irina de France wrote:@Maria Antonietta

Well, obviously, there are all the Beauty and the Beast-esque stories: the original tale, of course, and Cupid and Psyche since BatB is basically a kid-friendly version of the tale (XD), East of the Sun, West of the Moon, One Thousand One Nights, and if you want to get into modern fairytales, there's Buffy, of course.

Otherwise, there's all the gothic fiction as well since Reylo does show some vibes of it, and Jane Eyre is a fantastic example of a narrative we can compare to how Reylo could unfurl.

@Irina de France

Thanks is there a good website where I can learn something more?

@Maria Antonietta

I have no website in mind, unfortunately, but there's Ashesforfoxes' really good metas on the subject which you can read here:

The Heroine's Journey:
http://ashesforfoxes.tumblr.com/post/138788226901/the-descent-the-heroines-journey-as-depicted-in

The Heroine in a BatB narrative:
http://ashesforfoxes.tumblr.com/post/141360308671/bride-of-the-monstrous-meeting-the-other-in-the

Perhaps this website could be helpful, though it's for promoting a book about the heroine's journey, if ever you're interested:
https://heroinejourneys.com/heroines-journey/

I don't have any other ideas in mind, otherwise, but I'll keep my eye open.

Irina de France wrote:@Maria Antonietta

I have no website in mind, unfortunately, but there's Ashesforfoxes' really good metas on the subject which you can read here:

The Heroine's Journey:
http://ashesforfoxes.tumblr.com/post/138788226901/the-descent-the-heroines-journey-as-depicted-in

The Heroine in a BatB narrative:
http://ashesforfoxes.tumblr.com/post/141360308671/bride-of-the-monstrous-meeting-the-other-in-the

Perhaps this website could be helpful, though it's for promoting a book about the heroine's journey, if ever you're interested:
https://heroinejourneys.com/heroines-journey/

I don't have any other ideas in mind, otherwise, but I'll keep my eye open.

@Irina de France

Bless you

Don't know if this has been posted anywhere but interesting look at the Reylo dynamic:

http://felixazrael.tumblr.com/post/144074398210/female-sexuality-awakens-the

Another good one:

http://frolickingfizzgig.tumblr.com/post/141233360085/mirroring-opposites-and-the-personification-of?is_related_post=1

That's my yin yang meta^^^^

Oh memories

Its awesome with all this absorbing shadow stuff now that's come out to know we werent just reaching or something with all this yin yang stuff

I got another proof that Kylo's the hidden protagonist - Burning Homestead. Why they played that theme over his face and not Rey's bugged me to no end so I compared the scenes. This sith is not a coincidence. The saber catching scene is told from 2 POV, rey's (catching) and Kylo's which most fans tend to overlook. From Kylo's POV Rey = Burning Homestead = life changing event. Look:




Luke and Kylo are on the left, Burning Homestead (where bodies are lying)/Rey on the right.




Camera zooms Luke/Kylo at the moment when famous Burning Homestead cue hits. It's because Luke/Kylo reaction is important. Now, most people just took in that Rey called the saber but why else would they play BH over Kylo moment (which isn't part of the official score) unless they wanted to show that this is the same situation as when Luke found his dead adoptive parents. Life changing event except that the key to understanding is reversal:

Luke - desert, white robes, day, death

Kylo - snow, black robes, night, life

Kylo's Burning Homestead is POSITIVE. It's Rey/life/love. Not NEGATIVE/Death. Positive character/hero's BH is negative, negative character/villain's BH is positive. makes sense? Only the opposite changes life. bad event changes good character's life. Good event changes bad character's life. But the point is, Kylo is Luke here, not Rey. Only he's a hidden Luke. Rey is Rey, new thing in the universe.

@Vaderito Burning Homestead = Life changing event; which indeed it was for both of them when she caught the saber.

vaderito wrote:I got another proof that Kylo's the hidden protagonist - Burning Homestead. Why they played that theme over his face and not Rey's bugged me to no end so I compared the scenes. This sith is not a coincidence. The saber catching scene is told from 2 POV, rey's (catching) and Kylo's which most fans tend to overlook. From Kylo's POV Rey = Burning Homestead = life changing event. Look:




Luke and Kylo are on the left, Burning Homestead (where bodies are lying)/Rey on the right.




Camera zooms Luke/Kylo at the moment when famous Burning Homestead cue hits. It's because Luke/Kylo reaction is important. Now, most people just took in that Rey called the saber but why else would they play BH over Kylo moment (which isn't part of the official score) unless they wanted to show that this is the same situation as when Luke found his dead adoptive parents. Life changing event except that the key to understanding is reversal:

Luke - desert, white robes, day, death

Kylo - snow, black robes, night, life

Kylo's Burning Homestead is POSITIVE. It's Rey/life/love. Not NEGATIVE/Death. Positive character/hero's BH is negative, negative character/villain's BH is positive. makes sense? Only the opposite changes life. bad event changes good character's life. Good event changes bad character's life. But the point is, Kylo is Luke here, not Rey. Only he's a hidden Luke. Rey is Rey, new thing in the universe.

@vaderito

Really brilliant!!!!!

IoJovi wrote:@Vaderito Burning Homestead = Life changing event; which indeed it was for both of them when she caught the saber.

@IoJovi

Yep, I think that Rey catching the saber saved him. When he was trying to catch it, Snoke music played so it was very ominous, like, if he caught it his descent into the dark side would be complete. But than comes Rey of Light to change everything.

vaderito wrote:

Luke and Kylo are on the left, Burning Homestead (where bodies are lying)/Rey on the right.

@vaderito

Wow, nearly identical expres​sion(dare I say Kylo's looks more hopeful), and exact same shot! Even his hair is blowing to his left, just like Luke's. Luke is looking down, Kylo is looking up.They probably showed Adam this shot for inspiration. Yes!

@Xylo Ren Excellent point that one is looking down while the other is looking up. Kylo looking up is strange cause Rey is shorter. Look at them here:



His looking up doesn't make sense but they obviously wanted him to look up as in hopeful.

vaderito wrote:@Xylo Ren Excellent point that one is looking down while the other is looking up. Kylo looking up is strange cause Rey is shorter. Look at them here:



His looking up doesn't make sense but they obviously wanted him to look up as in hopeful.

@vaderito




Which one looks like their mortal enemy just stole their legacy lightsaber? Not Kylo, that's for sure.

@Xylo Ren Kylo reacts to different saber thieves. 

@vaderito

Notice Rey and Finn's shot is the exact same angle and similar coloring, though Rey has some purple splashed in there. Kylo's red with Finn, blue with Rey. Anger, hatred, "that lightsaber...it belongs to me." with Finn and then call to the light, blue, amazed when Rey snatches it from his grip.

Xylo Ren wrote:@vaderito

Notice Rey and Finn's shot is the exact same angle and similar coloring, though Rey has some purple splashed in there. Kylo's red with Finn, blue with Rey. Anger, hatred, "that lightsaber...it belongs to me." with Finn and then call to the light, blue, amazed when Rey snatches it from his grip.

@Xylo Ren

Well spotted! Color coding is huge deal in SW and this is spot on. 

vaderito wrote:

Xylo Ren wrote:@vaderito

Notice Rey and Finn's shot is the exact same angle and similar coloring, though Rey has some purple splashed in there. Kylo's red with Finn, blue with Rey. Anger, hatred, "that lightsaber...it belongs to me." with Finn and then call to the light, blue, amazed when Rey snatches it from his grip.

@Xylo Ren

Well spotted! Color coding is huge deal in SW and this is spot on. 

@vaderito

Definitely! Good eye! Finn is totally blue while Kylo is red. But then Kylo is blue while Rey is actually half and half on her face! Whoa! Good catch! :-)

SoloSideCousin wrote:

vaderito wrote:

Xylo Ren wrote:@vaderito

Notice Rey and Finn's shot is the exact same angle and similar coloring, though Rey has some purple splashed in there. Kylo's red with Finn, blue with Rey. Anger, hatred, "that lightsaber...it belongs to me." with Finn and then call to the light, blue, amazed when Rey snatches it from his grip.

@Xylo Ren

Well spotted! Color coding is huge deal in SW and this is spot on. 

@vaderito

Definitely! Good eye! Finn is totally blue while Kylo is red.  But then Kylo is blue while Rey is actually half and half on her face! Whoa! Good catch! :-)

@SoloSideCousin

Purple = official color of Reylo confirmed

Kylo is looking "up" when he sees Rey with the saber because he's looking into her eyes. Luke is staring off into the distance (a.k.a at a landscape) in that Binary Sunset shot.

I have a feeling Rey's lightsabre when she gets it will be purple like Mace Windu's, as it is a combination of red and blue and shows the Grey rather than Dark/Light.

This is a really cool gifset created by bentages and it shows a parallel I never noticed before:









I knew there was a parallel between Kylo killing Lor San Tekka and Kylo killing Han, but I didn't really think about how, if Kylo had been in the same mindset as when he killed Lor San Tekka, he could have stopped Chewie's bowcaster shot just like he stopped Poe's blaster shot. The evolution of his character is so clear here, to me.

Nice @jakkusun - I thought exactly the same, that there were similarities but I wasn't sure what it was in particular. For him, I expect that his mask being removed meant that he showed his true emotions and lost control of the force. I won't be surprised if he starts the next film back in the mask to put that wall back up but it's not going to last very long...