Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

@nickandnora Ward is afraid to speculate one way or another on what he knows because it could backfire. I mentioned footage from last act because Ward would have made such statements only if he definitely saw something and now can be sure that part of his leaks are true. Information from this girl confirms that Ward's leaks have some truth to it ( so yeah, we don't know which information)

@OrionStars Hehe. I think we should wait before deciding that this the end. Doesn't sound like the end, right?

OrionStars wrote:

special_cases wrote:Kira looks like bad news because she is doing what fleakers usually do. I understand that Reylos want to believe her.

What is worth mention is that the girl who leaked some merch previously is very happy with what she saw and I think it's safe to assume that it's Reylo-friendly. I believe her because she has proven record and real personality. She also said that it's close to what Ward leaked. As I suspected, he definitely saw some footage from last act.

@special_cases


Yup, I agree, I've always suspected Kira is a fleaker or a shill.

And Ward said he saw "Ben yeets into the pit" with his own two eyes. If that's the case, I can't wait to see the senate fry all resistance army and rule the galaxy in harmony. Hail the Sith!

@OrionStars

Originally he said he only saw Rey facing down Palpatine after he was chucked down the pit. I noticed in that article he didn’t see Palpatine die either. The new article saying “he looks ever more beat up/sweaty than this” does imply he saw more. I find this so bizarre. So he leaks an artistic description of the face off, then someone comes and shows him more footage? Just so weird.

I read the summary posted of his “interview leak update” the other day, and particularly on the Finnrose part, it speaks to issues I’m having with these leaks. He originally spoiled months ago the movie made it clear Finnrose were a couple. Then not that long ago he had the weird leak of Finn wanting to tell Rey something, possibly about feelings for her despite the fact he is with Rose. This never made sense. Now it’s, well that’s been changed in reshoots to solidify Finnrose. Same deal with CGI Leia training with Luke. JJ has said repeatedly existing unused footage is what they used, not CGI. Now we are told oh, that was changed too in reshoots to just Luke recapping it. On both fronts, I don’t think either thing that made no sense ever existed in the first place, and his source(s) are backpedaling to cover errors, deliberate or otherwise.

I do think he has seen footage, but what kind is the question. Part of the trailer? Part of the film not in the trailer? A staffer’s phone recording of filming? What exactly he saw ties to how accurate it is or isn’t IMO. Just like what he saw for TLJ was actually Hamill and film crew, not Luke fighting the Knights. The info was wrong despite him seeing footage because it wasn’t film he was seeing but rather film of them filming. That scenario leaves room for error and misinterpretations. If he’s seeing actual, literal film footage that is not from the trailer, I would suspect the Mouse is showing it to him. Question being: why? PR alone, or misdirection? All things I’m wondering at the moment.

I’m terms of Daisy’s quotes, sounds about like what she’s been saying. I’m curious if they will have any new tidbits/takes in this EW mag. It’s out tomorrow isn’t it? New info and the trailer really cannot come soon enough. EW’s coverage used to be so great from what I remember, but with Breznican gone, I’m afraid it’s just going to be filler besides quotes that maybe (?) were collected by him earlier in the year.

@AcrosstheStars

Here, he published this article and said he saw Ben die by being yeet into the pit https://makingstarwars.net/2019/09/huge-spoilers-the-money-shot-of-star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-and-more/



@special_cases
Yeah, we can only pray.

I'm still trying to look on the bright side and I've seen a fan on discord pointed out that even though TROS leak sounds horrible, it still helps the studio unite the fanbase because
- Most fanboys want Luke to have a biological child of his own but they won't get it because Rey isn't Luke's daughter. Luke doesn't even adopt her as his child, she just adopts herself into the family. Luke died as a 60 y/o homeless depressed virgin.
- Reylos want a decent happy ending with Kylo still survives and has a chance to make a family with Rey in the future but they won't get it because Kylo dies too as 30 y/o depressed virgin.
- And so do the other shippers who ship stormpilot, FinnRey, DameRey etc... they also won't get what they want.
In the end, no one gets what they want.

I find it sad that it seems people trust male leakers, who are not Reylo friendly, versus a woman (or women) who are Reylos.  If there is mistrust of all, or annoyance, I still find it sad, yet I understand it more.  I just hope it's not the former.

Anyway, about the Reylo who said she saw the trailer (or footage, I can't keep track - probably because she's so excited she's just squee typing), and it seems to align to some leaks, but she doesn't know all of them (I admit, that is whiplash confusing).

Here are a handful of links.  Easier for one to read it versus read a description of it, or try to piece screenshots together.

https://twitter.com/_selenejade/status/1184891595545632768

https://twitter.com/_selenejade/status/1184920024869474307

https://twitter.com/_selenejade/status/1184893914517557248

https://twitter.com/_selenejade/status/1184858399617499137

@OrionStars

That’s the article I was thinking of. I don’t interpret that as he saw Ben tossed in to a pit. He says “I have heard Ben falls in to the mist” and “I believe this happens after Rey and Ben are drained by Darth Sidious.” If he saw that, why say he has heard it and believes that’s the order? I interpreted the article as he saw footage picking up shortly after that, and after Rey had been rejeuvenated by whatever means.

But now he’s claimed to have seen what Kylo looks like before he’s drained and tossed, so either he saw more, or he’s only seeing snippets IMO.

@AcrosstheStars I think he saw some snippets and concept art that is now collaborated by footage. It wouldn't be a surprise if he actually got concept art like last time because it's much much easier to get.

OrionStars wrote:(...)

I'm still trying to look on the bright side and I've seen a fan on discord pointed out that even though TROS leak sounds horrible, it still helps the studio unite the fanbase because
- Most fanboys want Luke to have a biological child of his own but they won't get it because Rey isn't Luke's daughter. Luke doesn't even adopt her as his child, she just adopts herself into the family. Luke died as a 60 y/o homeless depressed virgin.
- Reylos want a decent happy ending with Kylo still survives and has a chance to make a family with Rey in the future but they won't get it because Kylo dies too as 30 y/o depressed virgin.
- And so do the other shippers who ship stormpilot, FinnRey, DameRey etc... they also won't get what they want.
In the end, no one gets what they want.

@OrionStars

What a great movie this one will be, it will get the impossible: unite the entire fanbase.

Wasn't Jason the one who was insisting Kylo wasn't permanently dead? Now he says he really is dead? LOL. All these leakers constantly change their narrative and act like the entire movie can change in reshoots, they're just trying to cover their butts. I really don't believe they're showing people the most climactic moments outside the editing bay.

I do think more people have seen the trailer as time goes on, but "I know the outcome of the third act" and "I know the last shot of the movie" are just stuff and nonsense.

californiagirl wrote:Wasn't Jason the one who was insisting Kylo wasn't permanently dead? Now he says he really is dead? LOL. All these leakers constantly change their narrative and act like the entire movie can change in reshoots, they're just trying to cover their butts. I really don't believe they're showing people the most climactic moments outside the editing bay.

I do think more people have seen the trailer as time goes on, but "I know the outcome of the third act" and "I know the last shot of the movie" are just stuff and nonsense.

@californiagirl

OMG you're right! I remember that!
The 180 degree flip is super weird. I totally agree there is behind covering.

californiagirl wrote:Wasn't Jason the one who was insisting Kylo wasn't permanently dead? Now he says he really is dead? LOL. All these leakers constantly change their narrative and act like the entire movie can change in reshoots, they're just trying to cover their butts. I really don't believe they're showing people the most climactic moments outside the editing bay.

I do think more people have seen the trailer as time goes on, but "I know the outcome of the third act" and "I know the last shot of the movie" are just stuff and nonsense.

@californiagirl

From all I’ve seen, he’s been consistent that he doesn’t believe Ben is chucked down a pit and never seen again. He thinks there’s more to it. Sounds like he leans towards Force ghost return (whereas before he thought he didn’t die), but that part is just spec I believe.

His and JP’s sources may be telling them “reshoots”, but IMO that’s the time for them to ask why the things that made no sense or were contradictory to prior info are conveniently the ones explained away via reshoots. Goes back to my thought that they themselves aren’t intentionally misleading us, but I think their sources are misleading them, either intentionally or because they are assuming too much and then try to go back and cover up incorrect assumptions via “reshoots” claims.

On another website they mentioned the possibility of Rey 'saving' Ben being some kind of insult to her character being a strong independent woman.
I'm sorry, but this both baffles and annoys me, because Luke saving his father was seen as something beautiful, not an affront to his manhood.
A lot of people argue that Ben has to 'save' himself. What I see is he has to be saved from himself. I know I'll upset some people by saying this, but if Ben becomes a better man, he'll need to see that there's a reason to be one, and not just 'for the greater good'. Yes, I know it sounds selfish, but let's face it, we all have a little selfish ness inside us. Especially when it comes to love!

A lot of Reylos see the end of TLJ as Rey telling Ben she couldn't love him until he got his act together. That I could get behind. But I couldn't see it as that. Instead, the look on her face, both when she reached for that sabre and at the end when she sealed the bond seemed to scream 'get lost!'. Rey sees things in black and white still - even her current costume shows this - and although of course she was understandably horrified at the thought of Ben letting the Resistance die, which includes her friend Finn, she never for one moment thought of what kind of reception they would have given Ben if he'd come with her. Neither of them truly thought it through. Love is a two way street, where both people need to accept each other.
All of Kylo's behaviour at the end of TLJ - and it seems in the comics too - seems to scream hurt. From his perspective, he thinks Rey let him down. He killed Snoke for her. He offered her the galaxy. And she left him to join a terrorist group. I honestly thought we'd see Rey feeling as hurt as Kylo obviously was. Instead the aim seems to present her as the uber woman, the 'perfect' person who must overcome her attraction to the 'eeevil' villain in order to become the Resistance figurehead. And that her ultimate goal is to end up a solitary saint..

So she's found her 'family' with the Resistance? But they'll disband once the war is won, and her best buddy has a love of his own.

I really hope Rey won't spend the movie looking down her nose at Ben from the pinnacle of self righteousness. That sounds too much like pandering to the likes of the Mary Sue who argued that giving Rey a love interest would ruin her depiction of a strong independent woman.
My mum was the strongest woman I ever knew. Loving my dad only increased her strength, not demeaned it. And he was just as strong and proud of her.
I want Rey and Kylo's relationship to be one of equals. That is what a relationship should be.
Sorry about the rant!

Not really anything new here, but JJ has been banging home the cohesive, 9 film saga all fitting together thing more than virtually anything else. This is good, since one of the main narratives in fandom is that this is all a jumble and can't make sense. Breznican contributed still, it seems. https://ew.com/movies/2019/10/18/jj-abrams-star-wars-rise-skywalker-ending/

californiagirl wrote:Not really anything new here, but JJ has been banging home the cohesive, 9 film saga all fitting together thing more than virtually anything else. This is good, since one of the main narratives in fandom is that this is all a jumble and can't make sense. Breznican contributed still, it seems. https://ew.com/movies/2019/10/18/jj-abrams-star-wars-rise-skywalker-ending/

@californiagirl

If it’s truly cohesive, he better have Anakin show up to talk to his grandson. I’ve been waiting all three movies for that to happen. You can’t introduce Kylo’s characterization by showing him “talking” to Vader and not explain that and have Anakin show up to give him a reality check. I get why you need Han to help some of the audience forgive Kylo/believe in Bendemption, but IMO you desperately need Anakin too. He’s the glue that connects all 9 movie together, more so than even Palpatine. Palpatine was totally ignored in TFA other than I believe that voices/vision scene and only mentioned in passing in TLJ, whereas Vader seems to be at the center of Kylo’s motivations. You can’t cohesively settle Kylo/Ben’s story or the saga’s without Anakin being involved somehow.

SW_Heroine_Journey wrote:I find it sad that it seems people trust male leakers, who are not Reylo friendly, versus a woman (or women) who are Reylos.  If there is mistrust of all, or annoyance, I still find it sad, yet I understand it more.  I just hope it's not the former.

@SW_Heroine_Journey

Just speaking for myself, believing JP and Jason and not believing the Kira poster on Twitter has nothing to do with the genders/shipping preferences of the people in question.

Who I choose to believe is based largely on track record, which is something both JP and Jason possess in abundance. Unless I have missed it, I am unaware of Kira having any track record of proven/backed up leaks (though I'd welcome being corrected if I'm wrong).

Secondly, I consider the plausibility of what is being reported - while I believe JP and Jason don't have the nuance and emotional texturing that will make or break the film, and are probably missing important puzzle pieces, the plot they outline sounds eminently plausible as the work of professional screenwriters.

Finally, I factor in the bias of the posters  - while JP and Jason clearly aren't shippers and JP has been rather negative about shipping, they don't come across as people with strong personal preferences for how the story should go. That makes me more inclined to believe that they are, for the most part, reporting from a broadly neutral position. Kira, by contrast, is obviously a massive Reylo shipper and is feeding people panicked by the JP/Jason stuff exactly what they want to hear. That makes alarm bells ring for me.

People can believe whoever they want to believe and it's fine if you believe this Kira person, but I dislike seeing malintent ascribed to the people who remain unconvinced. It's not unreasonable to doubt the reliability of a completely anonymous Twitter user with no discernible track record and obvious heavy bias.

SW_Heroine_Journey wrote:I find it sad that it seems people trust male leakers, who are not Reylo friendly, versus a woman (or women) who are Reylos.  If there is mistrust of all, or annoyance, I still find it sad, yet I understand it more.  I just hope it's not the former.

Anyway, about the Reylo who said she saw the trailer (or footage, I can't keep track - probably because she's so excited she's just squee typing), and it seems to align to some leaks, but she doesn't know all of them (I admit, that is whiplash confusing).

Here are a handful of links.  Easier for one to read it versus read a description of it, or try to piece screenshots together.

https://twitter.com/_selenejade/status/1184891595545632768

https://twitter.com/_selenejade/status/1184920024869474307

https://twitter.com/_selenejade/status/1184893914517557248

https://twitter.com/_selenejade/status/1184858399617499137

@SW_Heroine_Journey

I really can't get over (or completely figure out) what this chick is trying to tell us. She's clearly a "Reylo," seems positively *thrilled* at what she's seen, but happily gives (specifically MSW) credit for getting "some stuff" right, while also saying she doesn't know *everything* he's said. Note: she specifically says MSW, not JP, or the guy on reddit. She seems happily oblivious at the fact that the leaks are seen so negatively by, like, EVERYONE, and assures that it's all good stuff. She doesn't elaborate further (on twitter anyway).

Guys, I'm wondering: is it possible she's talking about the stuff MSW reported in April (which all sounded reasonable and exciting) and is unaware of how Jason has changed his stance? I mean, has she seen ForceFlashFights maybe? Her attitude is just... kind of baffling.

ETA: She's out there recently talking about Reverse Anidala and theorizing how Rey could have babies at the end of the film... she can't *possibly* know what JP has been saying, right? Jeez I'm confused.

nickandnora wrote:

SW_Heroine_Journey wrote:I find it sad that it seems people trust male leakers, who are not Reylo friendly, versus a woman (or women) who are Reylos.  If there is mistrust of all, or annoyance, I still find it sad, yet I understand it more.  I just hope it's not the former.

Anyway, about the Reylo who said she saw the trailer (or footage, I can't keep track - probably because she's so excited she's just squee typing), and it seems to align to some leaks, but she doesn't know all of them (I admit, that is whiplash confusing).

Here are a handful of links.  Easier for one to read it versus read a description of it, or try to piece screenshots together.

https://twitter.com/_selenejade/status/1184891595545632768

https://twitter.com/_selenejade/status/1184920024869474307

https://twitter.com/_selenejade/status/1184893914517557248

https://twitter.com/_selenejade/status/1184858399617499137

@SW_Heroine_Journey

I really can't get over (or completely figure out) what this chick is trying to tell us. She's clearly a "Reylo," seems positively *thrilled* at what she's seen, but happily gives (specifically MSW) credit for getting "some stuff" right, while also saying she doesn't know *everything* he's said. Note: she specifically says MSW, not JP, or the guy on reddit. She seems happily oblivious at the fact that the leaks are seen so negatively by, like, EVERYONE, and assures that it's all good stuff. She doesn't elaborate further (on twitter anyway).

Guys, I'm wondering: is it possible she's talking about the stuff MSW reported in April (which all sounded reasonable and exciting) and is unaware of how Jason has changed his stance? I mean, has she seen ForceFlashFights maybe? Her attitude is just... kind of baffling.

ETA: She's out there recently talking about Reverse Anidala and theorizing how Rey could have babies at the end of the film... she can't *possibly* know what JP has been saying, right? Jeez I'm confused.

@nickandnora

Wow... sounds suspiciously like a pattern of behavior I have seen before...

@nickandnora

Now I'm confused too, how could she not know what Jason is leaking right now? She publicly interacts with Jason a lot on twitter with lovey-dovey and flirty tweets, it seems like they're in close "friendship", while most Reylo on twitter have ignored Jason after the twitter war a few days ago when he insulted the Reylos and declared himself as a holy being in SW fandom.

To be honest, I doubt that Selena Twitter leaker saw something explicitly Reylo because it would be kind of secret stuff if it exists. Maybe something pro-Reylo or some good stuff related to Bendemption. I find it interesting that she specified that it's not from trailer, but it's footage-related.

Also I noticed that people on Twitter either don't know or ignore it, but she said (a month ago, I think?) that she is not Reylo but Reylo-friendly.

If you read one of the threads, Jason pops in and makes sure to distinguish himself from that other guy on reddit. When someone is saying that he's the guy who changed the whole third act of his leaks he's like "nah, not me bro; that's the other guy."

I'm calling it now: force flash fights are a real thing and Jason's going to take credit for being the one to know (in spite of everything that came after it).

@special_cases

Hmm, I wonder what kind of friendliness because Jason was really ...friendly when he talked about Reylo with The Den of Nerds but he still insulted Reylo on twitter, lol. Jason's leaks aren't pro-Reylo and pro-Kylo at all.

@nickandnora Yes, it's highly possible. Ward is afraid to stick to one concrete version right now. I noticed that when he talks, he is very careful about everything around JP's leaks and he isn't saying that their leaks are the same. I think he already knows that SWL got quite serious collaboration for their leaks and he can't be sure anymore that his previous leaks are 100%. If it was really Disney who fed SWL these leaks then it was smart move because it's harder for other leakers to cross-check their stuff when whole outline becomes public. Leaks from SWL killed a lot of options for Ward's leaker game but also diminished his responsibility.

@OrionStars Ward's leaks were Reylo-friendly before JP dropped a leak about Sith Dagger. It seems Ward doesn't want to stick to anything because he genuinely doesn't know anymore. Twitter's situation is different... let's just say because of his *personality*. I don't want to use curse words here or discuss him and I think his personal beef with us doesn't reflect on his leaks. He is perfectly aware that there is only storyline that will make sense in IX and it's Reylo.

spacebaby45678 wrote:

nickandnora wrote:

SW_Heroine_Journey wrote:I find it sad that it seems people trust male leakers, who are not Reylo friendly, versus a woman (or women) who are Reylos.  If there is mistrust of all, or annoyance, I still find it sad, yet I understand it more.  I just hope it's not the former.

Anyway, about the Reylo who said she saw the trailer (or footage, I can't keep track - probably because she's so excited she's just squee typing), and it seems to align to some leaks, but she doesn't know all of them (I admit, that is whiplash confusing).

Here are a handful of links.  Easier for one to read it versus read a description of it, or try to piece screenshots together.

https://twitter.com/_selenejade/status/1184891595545632768

https://twitter.com/_selenejade/status/1184920024869474307

https://twitter.com/_selenejade/status/1184893914517557248

https://twitter.com/_selenejade/status/1184858399617499137

@SW_Heroine_Journey

I really can't get over (or completely figure out) what this chick is trying to tell us. She's clearly a "Reylo," seems positively *thrilled* at what she's seen, but happily gives (specifically MSW) credit for getting "some stuff" right, while also saying she doesn't know *everything* he's said. Note: she specifically says MSW, not JP, or the guy on reddit. She seems happily oblivious at the fact that the leaks are seen so negatively by, like, EVERYONE, and assures that it's all good stuff. She doesn't elaborate further (on twitter anyway).

Guys, I'm wondering: is it possible she's talking about the stuff MSW reported in April (which all sounded reasonable and exciting) and is unaware of how Jason has changed his stance? I mean, has she seen ForceFlashFights maybe? Her attitude is just... kind of baffling.

ETA: She's out there recently talking about Reverse Anidala and theorizing how Rey could have babies at the end of the film... she can't *possibly* know what JP has been saying, right? Jeez I'm confused.

@nickandnora

Wow... sounds suspiciously like a pattern of behavior I have seen before...

@spacebaby45678

Me too, Ive seen all of this behavior materialise before. I'm not going to go into it but I'm not falling for the manipulation,  I never have. It's always put me as an outsider.

@special_cases

Yeah, I've got a bad feeling that he doesn't know anything about TROS any more after how he backed up a TROS trailer leak in one of his articles, but it turned out that TROS trailer leak on reddit was just a fleak (rip Darth Ruin ) And if I remember correctly, JW already said force flash fight won't happen.

I actually don't mind if we never see any more Force bond scenes between Rey and Kylo, apart from them perhaps briefly sensing each other's feelings, I much prefer to see them interact in the flesh.

californiagirl wrote:Not really anything new here, but JJ has been banging home the cohesive, 9 film saga all fitting together thing more than virtually anything else.

@californiagirl

This conceit is the source of the film's problems, IMO. JJ says he doesn't see how you can complete a nine-story arc without returning the main villain. I guess he's right. In a way. But if it still feels like you're forcing the villain back into a story where he/she doesn't belong, then maybe the reason is that it's not really the same story and you are.