Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

nickandnora wrote:

OrionStars wrote:

Saracene wrote:Personally I feel that the “you can escape your heritage” stories are more impactful when a character has actually been shaped in some way by their heritage so they have to make an effort to escape it, and Rey wasn’t really? If she’s a Palpatine, she pretty much escaped her heritage already and is a fully formed personality when we meet her in TFA, not influenced by her heritage. Plus there’s the fact that the dark side is not hereditary, there’s just force powers and it’s up to an individual how to use them.

@Saracene

Geralt_Riv wrote:The problem with this movie is (if leaks are 100% legit) that they wiped out the whole family and say that the ending is hopeful.

(...)

@Geralt_Riv


Well, you know, I've tried to take my biased goggles out and sincerely rethink about what JJ said when he publicly busted out that he wanted to f*ck the rule


and sadly, my conclusion is really pessimistic, so maybe you guys could come up with a less pessimistic point of view than mine.

@OrionStars

J.J. is above all an optimistic crowd pleaser who doesn't like to go to the movies to be sad (almost a direct quote of his). He could be referring to many things stylistically, but off the top of my head the first thing that comes to mind is his love for ironic flashbacks (which Star Wars previously didn't have). I don't think he means, "f**** it, I'm going to make this story a miserable one that abandons the theme of hope and makes no sense." C'mon.

@nickandnora

JJ : I think we knew that we had to make this thing feel like it was a satisfying conclusion and again I can not wait for you to see it.
interviewer : the title of the film is The rise of Skywalker, there is only one Skywalker left, we know that for a fact right? Ben Solo?
JJ: keep going ....
Interviewer : so , he's just rising, I guess. He just keeps rising, Kylo keeps rising.
JJ: I guess in the Horowitz version of the thing ,that could be good, and maybe that's what happens. I can't wait for you to see it.
KK said that Skywalker is not just a surname. JJ seems to be hesitating,, for us for us it is taken for granted that the title refers to Leia and Ben, but perhaps the meaning is deeper.

It does not seem very deep to me that Rey takes the name of Skywalker ... in fact it seems to me a stretch.
If the rise of Skywalker was the school that founded Rey with Ben then it is more acceptable than " steal" a family's surname. sorry my bad eng...
 

PalmettoBlue wrote:

special_cases wrote:I find it strange that LF is not sending a legion of fleakers after JP started writing his leaks in Acts. This is something studios usually do unlike planted leaks. I mean, I've never heard any legitimate claim that any film studio leaks mixed spoilers (something that can be confirmed and something to hide real spoilers). I don't even think that Kira is fleaker from LF, I think I know her and she was playing her games for 3 years already.

Dark Union is great and very smart theory. I really wish they would have go there but after trailer I'm sure it's not happening. Damn, that theory is seriously perfect. But I see no reason for LF to hide Matt Smith in this case and the direction of the trailer basically contradicts theory's narrative. The trailer states that Palpy is after both Rey and Kylo, that he was waiting for them to come together. If Dark Union was a plan for Rey, he should be very invested in Rey and the focus would have been on him luring her.

@special_cases
I don’t think that Palp’s line in the trailer necessarily contradicts the Dark Union theory.
With regards to the leaked image - I said that yesterday. If LF was the slightest bit concerned about these leaks they would have been sniped in minutes. I think JP has a fanfic that he’s peddling as the film. And even if he get random plot points right - he’s got no idea how it all fits together, much less the emotion behind it.

@PalmettoBlue

Thank you for summarizing that theory for me! I appreciate you taking the time to do it. I hadn’t thought of it that way. It would certainly have less of the yuck factor if they had a younger actor play him at one point. It could have worked nicely with the possession angle that was originally the main leak going around.

I will say in terms of the legal aspects, they can’t really do anything about someone reporting spoilers/leaks. They can try, and some productions have, but it usually falls flat unless the person spoiling is making money off of it all or offering up money in exchange for information. With ATAT, they couldn’t go after him legally, just his source. Him cooperating with them isn’t something he would necessarily have to do either legally speaking, if he had wanted to fight it. If someone starts taking and sharing unreleased intellectual property without permission, that’s definitely illegal. So say someone who worked on the film hopped online and posted the script, or the film itself, or stills of the film: that’s a crime. They stole property from their employer. Someone simply saying “My sources told me this is what happens” is not, unless the person posting it has an NDA with the company. There have been civil lawsuits before over spoiler sites, with the production seeking damages, but it mostly goes nowhere unless the site was posting copyrighted material or money was involved.

The Mouse never went after MSW or the other site (can’t remember the name) that leaked practically the entirety of TFA either.

Nobody is ever taking down textual leaks. It's wishful thinking. Studios take down images and everything that have copyright. They can't go to Reddit and claim that this information was stolen. They only can search for sources and rarely leakers. LF not taking down these leaks proves nothing as in 2014 there was a call sheet on MF forum and parts of this call sheet were publushed on MSW's site. Nobody took them down and there were real and correct.

californiagirl wrote:Kelly claims she has a big role, indicates gun action. Not much info, but nice to hear. https://www.digitalspy.com/movies/a29572049/star-wars-rise-of-skywalker-rose-resistance-kelly-marie-tran/

@californiagirl

Oooh I want to see KMT in action...(it sounds a bit LOTR lol)

"We don't shoot arrows off horses normally, so we have to learn every little thing. There's so much detail and so much work that goes into everything."

special_cases wrote: I don't even think that Kira is fleaker from LF, I think I know her and she was playing her games for 3 years already.

@special_cases

Can you elaborate on this? You know her personally...? I only noticed her like a month ago, what had she been doing these 3 years?

I don't think BothanSpy had images of Rey and Kylo and Luke in the hut, it was a description of the scene, but they got struck anyway down to my memory?

I’m curious about Palpatine’s “plans”, because right now they seem to hinge entirely on Kylo finding his way to him because he’s looking for the source of Snoke’s powers or whatever. Well what if he never started looking or never took over as the Supreme Leader in the first place? How does Palpatine know anything about Rey when she was born more than ten years after his “death” in RotJ? Does he have people working for him? Did JJ think through any of this or is he just skipping over questions in his typical “go go go don’t think” style?

Saracene wrote:I’m curious about Palpatine’s “plans”, because right now they seem to hinge entirely on Kylo finding his way to him because he’s looking for the source of Snoke’s powers or whatever. Well what if he never started looking or never took over as the Supreme Leader in the first place? How does Palpatine know anything about Rey when she was born more than ten years after his “death” in RotJ? Does he have people working for him? Did JJ think through any of this or is he just skipping over questions in his typical “go go go don’t think” style?

@Saracene
The Emperor had foresight - granted, it was faulty, but he had it. And since he’s a very powerful Force user, he may well know about her simply through the Force. At the very least, he’d have to understand that the Force always seeks to balance itself. Him disappearing from the mortal realm or something left only Luke as the active Force user (Luke was wrong when he said there was balance. There wasn’t.) So he probably knew a dark presence would rise as would another light.
All that said - Everything as is the Force wills it (Chirrut - R1).
I bet he felt her. And Ben.

rey09 wrote:

special_cases wrote: I don't even think that Kira is fleaker from LF, I think I know her and she was playing her games for 3 years already.

@special_cases

Can you elaborate on this? You know her personally...? I only noticed her like a month ago, what had she been doing these 3 years?

@rey09

Assuming Kira is a fake - what has she posted that is inaccurate? As near as I can tell, she’s trying to calm down the Reylo negativity and hyperventilating against these leaks from JP and JW that I don’t read as particularly accurate or helpful. They certainly don’t have any context.
I guess I”m just asking - what harm has/is she doing?

@californiagirl I think you’re right. And he certainly got sniped. We’ve never heard from him again.

Bothan-Spy's posts are still there, here the first about Rey and Kylo https://reddit.app.link/XXW3VfQw80. He was able to post more 4 leaks after that. He just went silent after some time and there were rumours that he stopped because LF contacted him to know more about the source or something like this. I recently wrote to him and ignored my message. Nobody took down his leaks and he was freely posting after first big leak.

PalmettoBlue wrote:

Saracene wrote:I’m curious about Palpatine’s “plans”, because right now they seem to hinge entirely on Kylo finding his way to him because he’s looking for the source of Snoke’s powers or whatever. Well what if he never started looking or never took over as the Supreme Leader in the first place? How does Palpatine know anything about Rey when she was born more than ten years after his “death” in RotJ? Does he have people working for him? Did JJ think through any of this or is he just skipping over questions in his typical “go go go don’t think” style?

@Saracene
The Emperor had foresight - granted, it was faulty, but he had it. And since he’s a very powerful Force user, he may well know about her simply through the Force. At the very least, he’d have to understand that the Force always seeks to balance itself. Him disappearing from the mortal realm or something left only Luke as the active Force user (Luke was wrong when he said there was balance. There wasn’t.) So he probably knew a dark presence would rise as would another light.
All that said - Everything as is the Force wills it (Chirrut - R1).
I bet he felt her. And Ben.

@PalmettoBlue

That's interesting, but I wonder did he know about luke and leia? Shouldn't he have felt them too? Idk personally

And about Kira I def don't personally mind her positivity.

Saracene wrote:I’m curious about Palpatine’s “plans”, because right now they seem to hinge entirely on Kylo finding his way to him because he’s looking for the source of Snoke’s powers or whatever. Well what if he never started looking or never took over as the Supreme Leader in the first place? How does Palpatine know anything about Rey when she was born more than ten years after his “death” in RotJ? Does he have people working for him? Did JJ think through any of this or is he just skipping over questions in his typical “go go go don’t think” style?

@Saracene

I have to assume he sensed her and Ben/Kylo’s power, but also that he has spies and people loyal to him, and some way of communicating with people to give orders. That’s the only way I can make sense of it, because someone had to receive the order to kidnap her (if that’s true) and instead wound up killing her parents. I still think the Sith Troopers being called the 105th has to come in to play somehow. If not, missed opportunity.

I admittedly cringed when an old 2008 quote from JJ was posted yesterday on the PrequelsMemes reddit where he basically said Vader was great and compelling because you had to guess and assume about him, and that sometimes it’s better not to know characters better (aka Anakin in the PT). That “demystifying them” makes them less “fun.” That was a long, long time ago in Hollywood years and 5 years before he got TFA job, but it admittedly speaks to a lot of issues I have with his “mystery boxes” stuff and the lack of Kylo’s backstory in the films. I don’t mind some mystery, I don’t mind twists. I don’t need an autobiography for every main character. But I like background, I like having backstory and most things explained, and seeing things unfold. That’s why I love the PT. I don’t like mystery for the sake of mystery, and I really hate “create your own endings” (ex. I love Elvis Presley, and his last film, Change of Habit, drives me up a wall because you have to guess how it ended). So I really hope for my own sanity’s sake that whatever JJ decided on doing, he actually explains it. I know Daisy said Palpatine’s return is explained, so that better not be cut out. Even if it’s dopey, I need some kind of explanation. “A story for another time...”  won’t work for me with Palpatine. I’m still hoping for at least a few lines explaining Snoke’s role in all this.

rey09 wrote:

PalmettoBlue wrote:

Saracene wrote:I’m curious about Palpatine’s “plans”, because right now they seem to hinge entirely on Kylo finding his way to him because he’s looking for the source of Snoke’s powers or whatever. Well what if he never started looking or never took over as the Supreme Leader in the first place? How does Palpatine know anything about Rey when she was born more than ten years after his “death” in RotJ? Does he have people working for him? Did JJ think through any of this or is he just skipping over questions in his typical “go go go don’t think” style?

@Saracene
The Emperor had foresight - granted, it was faulty, but he had it. And since he’s a very powerful Force user, he may well know about her simply through the Force. At the very least, he’d have to understand that the Force always seeks to balance itself. Him disappearing from the mortal realm or something left only Luke as the active Force user (Luke was wrong when he said there was balance. There wasn’t.) So he probably knew a dark presence would rise as would another light.
All that said - Everything as is the Force wills it (Chirrut - R1).
I bet he felt her. And Ben.

@PalmettoBlue

That's interesting, but I wonder did he know about luke and leia? Shouldn't he have felt them too? Idk personally

And about Kira I def don't personally mind her positivity.

@rey09

I'm neutral positive about Kira. All I know, she said that trailer would cause people to say the Reylos were right. And what did we see after the trailer, a bunch of blue checkmarks, etc post "OMG! I see Pride and Prejudice parallels." - and some added - The Reylos were right (some kept it separate, on purpose, or just due to cluelessness). What were Reylos saying? The ST is P&P in space. To me, that was rather awesome, and she called it. Could be a coincidence, or she could have insider information...regardless, I was tickled seeing the ST P&P epiphanies by many after the trailer premiered.

SW_Heroine_Journey wrote:

rey09 wrote:

PalmettoBlue wrote:

Saracene wrote:I’m curious about Palpatine’s “plans”, because right now they seem to hinge entirely on Kylo finding his way to him because he’s looking for the source of Snoke’s powers or whatever. Well what if he never started looking or never took over as the Supreme Leader in the first place? How does Palpatine know anything about Rey when she was born more than ten years after his “death” in RotJ? Does he have people working for him? Did JJ think through any of this or is he just skipping over questions in his typical “go go go don’t think” style?

@Saracene
The Emperor had foresight - granted, it was faulty, but he had it. And since he’s a very powerful Force user, he may well know about her simply through the Force. At the very least, he’d have to understand that the Force always seeks to balance itself. Him disappearing from the mortal realm or something left only Luke as the active Force user (Luke was wrong when he said there was balance. There wasn’t.) So he probably knew a dark presence would rise as would another light.
All that said - Everything as is the Force wills it (Chirrut - R1).
I bet he felt her. And Ben.

@PalmettoBlue

That's interesting, but I wonder did he know about luke and leia? Shouldn't he have felt them too? Idk personally

And about Kira I def don't personally mind her positivity.

@rey09

I'm neutral positive about Kira. All I know, she said that trailer would cause people to say the Reylos were right. And what did we see after the trailer, a bunch of blue checkmarks, etc post "OMG! I see Pride and Prejudice parallels." - and some added - The Reylos were right (some kept it separate, on purpose, or just due to cluelessness). What were Reylos saying? The ST is P&P in space. To me, that was rather awesome, and she called it. Could be a coincidence, or she could have insider information...regardless, I was tickled seeing the ST P&P epiphanies by many after the trailer premiered.

@SW_Heroine_Journey

It is not hard to guess that the trailer would be Reylo centric...Especially if a person as she does listens to Jason Ward, but a lot of the other stuff she tweeted that day.. I followed very closely, had nothing to do the the trailer

spacebaby45678 wrote:

SW_Heroine_Journey wrote:

rey09 wrote:

PalmettoBlue wrote:

Saracene wrote:I’m curious about Palpatine’s “plans”, because right now they seem to hinge entirely on Kylo finding his way to him because he’s looking for the source of Snoke’s powers or whatever. Well what if he never started looking or never took over as the Supreme Leader in the first place? How does Palpatine know anything about Rey when she was born more than ten years after his “death” in RotJ? Does he have people working for him? Did JJ think through any of this or is he just skipping over questions in his typical “go go go don’t think” style?

@Saracene
The Emperor had foresight - granted, it was faulty, but he had it. And since he’s a very powerful Force user, he may well know about her simply through the Force. At the very least, he’d have to understand that the Force always seeks to balance itself. Him disappearing from the mortal realm or something left only Luke as the active Force user (Luke was wrong when he said there was balance. There wasn’t.) So he probably knew a dark presence would rise as would another light.
All that said - Everything as is the Force wills it (Chirrut - R1).
I bet he felt her. And Ben.

@PalmettoBlue

That's interesting, but I wonder did he know about luke and leia? Shouldn't he have felt them too? Idk personally

And about Kira I def don't personally mind her positivity.

@rey09

I'm neutral positive about Kira. All I know, she said that trailer would cause people to say the Reylos were right. And what did we see after the trailer, a bunch of blue checkmarks, etc post "OMG! I see Pride and Prejudice parallels." - and some added - The Reylos were right (some kept it separate, on purpose, or just due to cluelessness). What were Reylos saying? The ST is P&P in space. To me, that was rather awesome, and she called it. Could be a coincidence, or she could have insider information...regardless, I was tickled seeing the ST P&P epiphanies by many after the trailer premiered.

@SW_Heroine_Journey

It is not hard to guess that the trailer would be Reylo centric...Especially if a person as she does listens to Jason Ward, but a lot of the other stuff she tweeted that day.. I followed very closely, had nothing to do the the trailer

@spacebaby45678

This is where I have a roadblock. JW and JP are misogynists, and have judgements against Reylo. Maybe JW is trying to come around because he wants to keep credibility when the ST is done...but it just gives me icky feelings that there seems to be more forgiveness towards those two (along with VA and GF), considering their negative behavior....I'm just going to stop talking about it, and be fair now. I am distrustful of all of them now, including Kira, etc...hope that is better.

How I wish, regardless of bias, somebody gave bullet points,and did not introduce their narrative into it. Let others introduce their narrative after they read the bullet points, and theorize away...

I can't take seriously arguments that mysterious insider Kira called something right because she said the people will be saying that Reylos were right after the trailer but JP's leaks should be dismissed because he is a bad person... and you know, the trailer confirms leaks like shot by shot. Kira leaks nothing. She is just telling people what they want to hear without any proof while claiming that she WORKED on the movie. This is insane that people believe her so easily.

Esquire for some reason published an article about the leaks, calling it a theory, then saying he’ll probably rise but die some other way because he’s been evil and has got to pay, basically. Yada yada. Basically theorizing and editorializing Ben’s fate, taking in to account the leaked picture.

This jumped out at me though:

Why is Episode 9 called Rise of Skywalker? Luke is dead. It's been confirmed that we'll be saying goodbye to Leia Organa, Luke Skywalker's twin sister, in the first act of Rise. wrote:

https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/movies/a29587531/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-final-trailer-kylo-ren-fall-comic-pit-theory/

Have I majorly missed a memo somewhere? I know even pre-leaks, many (myself included) thought Leia would die, and Oscar Isaac said something to the effect of saying goodbye to Leia, but we never had confirmation she dies, let alone in the first act. Or did I miss something that indicated that? I don’t think I did.

@nickandnora
See, that's the problem, I've even tried to ask the people who don't attract to Kylo's character or any SW like me in an attempt of trying to have a clear picture of this mess and they say the leaks don't sound hopeless like what I'm thinking. They think it's ok and acceptable, the situation is hopeful, the Skywalker is still "survive" because Rey will carry their name. They think Rey is a vessel for Disney to create more Skywalker. They even tell me that with Kevin Feige entering the picture, soon we will move on from the phase of boring @as protagonists like Rey/Poe/Finn that can't even sell merch and will have more interesting protagonists and even more Skywalkers.
From people of the other side's point of view, our problem (and to an extent, dudebros' problem too) is that we're just too attracted to Kylo/Luke/the Skywalker of Lucas and the leaks don't cater to our need. The people in real life who know I'm a Kylo stan is thinking I'm just in denial after 3 years of marrying to the idea that Disney would treat the Skywalker of Lucas and Kylo better than this. JJ's interview about how he wanted to stray further from Lucas's  only makes me sad even more.            

@special_cases
It's a desperate situation, and Kira is a pro Reylo leakers, she's like a life vest for the Reylos on twitter.

@OrionStars This Kira person seems like she's taking advantage of the desperate situation.

special_cases wrote:I can't take seriously arguments that mysterious insider Kira called something right because she said the people will be saying that Reylos were right after the trailer but JP's leaks should be dismissed because he is a bad person... and you know, the trailer confirms leaks like shot by shot. Kira leaks nothing. She is just telling people what they want to hear without any proof while claiming that she WORKED on the movie. This is insane that people believe her so easily.

@special_cases

I agree. And I agree about the previous things you mentioned. I still remember reading those BothanSpy leaks months after he posted them. TFA leaked completely too and if I remember correctly, nobody took JW's posts down when he uploaded them.

AcrosstheStars wrote:Esquire for some reason published an article about the leaks, calling it a theory, then saying he’ll probably rise but die some other way because he’s been evil and has got to pay, basically. Yada yada. Basically theorizing and editorializing Ben’s fate, taking in to account the leaked picture.

This jumped out at me though:

Why is Episode 9 called Rise of Skywalker? Luke is dead. It's been confirmed that we'll be saying goodbye to Leia Organa, Luke Skywalker's twin sister, in the first act of Rise. wrote:

https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/movies/a29587531/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-final-trailer-kylo-ren-fall-comic-pit-theory/

Have I majorly missed a memo somewhere? I know even pre-leaks, many (myself included) thought Leia would die, and Oscar Isaac said something to the effect of saying goodbye to Leia, but we never had confirmation she dies, let alone in the first act. Or did I miss something that indicated that? I don’t think I did.

@AcrosstheStars

Yes the leaks mention she dies. That's when the stabbing happens, as both rey and kylo are weakened by the death and rey takes a chance to stab him then lol. The next part shows the resistance mourning I think.

I don't think that JP is a bad person but I highly doubt he knows the full the third act.
Kira doesn't leak plot points she is just a fan that enthusiastically tells people to look at the themes and threads already set in place by the previous movies. Yes, today she stated that she worked on the movie. Which I suspected for a while now. But why would she lie about that?
I have given up on the leaks especially because they do not make sense. Yeah Kylo might die, I have come to terms with that. It would make zero sense for the last Skywalker to be thrown in a put never to be seen again. That does not strike me as a movie filled with hope. But it is what it is....

Gemini wrote:

Lily Snape wrote:

special_cases wrote:Well, Grant can play Palpatine's... son?

Perhaps his phrasing in that interview was unfortunate and he meant that his sudden conclusion that the conversation is about Star Wars "made room go upside down" for him.

@special_cases

I thought his reaction was because, if I remember the previous part of the interview correctly, he had sent in an audition tape months before not really thinking anything would come of it, and then they brought him in and just gave him a part and OH MY GOD I’M GOING TO BE IN STAR WARS.  He was a young man in 1977— 20 years old— so this has been part of his popular culture for most of his life, and now he’s in it.  That was my take, anyway.

@Lily Snape

It cant be his reaction to getting the part. He clearly says the room goes upside down for him after hearing who he is. After hearing what his characters name is.

Highly doubt it was for any other reason just based off what he literally says happened. He hears about the part...then hears what his name is. He is then stunned at that revelation.

Where, in what he says there  does he ever say that shocked  reaction was because he's in star wars? Or because he loved it as a kid? He does not say that.  This is why the rest of the article goes on to discuss who he might be..because he literally says that who he is,.is what he says made him excited in his audition.

Am I missing something? Are there parts of the interview where he literally says "the room went upside down  because I got the part, I mean loved star wars since I was a little kid"

Maybe the words say something different to what I reading and what the article deducts from what he said ad well.

Maybe when he says he hears what his name is and the room went upside down for him after hearing it really does not mean anything like that....

@Gemini

I think what he said could be interpreted either way.  They described the character to him, he thinks maybe they gave him the name, and the room turned upside down.  If he’s just really excited to be in Star Wars, he’s going to be excited as soon as he hears that he’s been cast and for what, which occurs in this moment.  If he knows Star Wars well and is told that he’s playing someone related to a legacy character, then it could mean that, as you say.  

I gather that you’re pretty invested in the Rey Kenobi theory— I was hoping for that after TFA, although by now I think it would be a lot of backstory to shoehorn in there.  I certainly like it better than Rey Palpatine, although now that Kylo has said she is Rey Nobody, I’d like to believe him and think he’s being honest with her because I want to believe the character of Ben Solo as basically honest.   I think one could read what Grant says to mean that Rey is related to a legacy character, but it’s equally plausible that “You’re playing this new guy in Star Wars” was enough to get him really excited about it.  Just like people interpret Kylo’s intentions differently, or Luke’s, or the Rey/Kylo relationship.  We’ll all know in less than two months.  

Also, it seems like a lot of stuff on this thread right now maybe belongs more in The Rey Kenobi Files thread.

Interesting Ask and Answer on tumblr https://emperorren.tumblr.com

My aside, I feel as though I'm Alice, in Alice in Wonderland. So, I remain hopeful about the ST, yet getting to the point I don't care if people die, including Ben, and there is only platonic Reylo.

Tumblr Ask & Answer:

anonymous:
i think you hit the nail on the head regarding jpx’s biases and what he can/can’t imagine the dynamic being, and i feel like some people are going straight into another cliffgate because they’re accepting everything he says (like rey as a palpatine or rey stabbing kylo or kylo following palpatine’s orders) and *then* trying to sprinkle some reylo around it. he’s changed his mind on completely random things and gotten so many basic wookieepedia facts wrong that he presented as part of “leaks”
I think JP’s leak process is more like *someone describes a scene to JP or shows him an image* *JP assumes the context of the image* *JP writes leak around his own fanboy assumptions* And this way his doubling-down against naysayers would make sense because he’s probably thinking, “What *else* could the movie be? This is the best option I can think of based on my legit sources, so it must be the *only* option”

yeahhhhhhhhhh

he has some legit info / seen some legit stuff, but his bias is creating the context. If he thinks that it would be absurd for Rey and Kylo to be on non-antagonistic terms and that a Reylo romance is not plausible, of course he’s gonna fill the blanks with that assumption in mind, because that’s what makes sense to him.

Rey and Kylo have a lightsaber fight? Of course that can’t be more to it other than fighting and stoic hatred on Rey’s part. Kylo has some kind of interaction with Palpatine and then comes to Rey? He’s acting on Palpatine’s behalf. Rey goes to seek Palpatine? That must be because she’s his granddaughter or otherwise related to him, it can’t have anything to do with Ben. Ben falls into a hole and my source is vague about what happens afterwards? Oh, so that’s how he dies.

Just ask anyone who hates Reylo to describe the plot of tlj as detailed as they can, and see what happens. And TLJ is an entire movie that has been out and publicly available for 2 years; at this stage, the leaks are more like a telephone game.

Actual Ask and Answer link https://emperorren.tumblr.com/post/188616013281/i-think-you-hit-the-nail-on-the-head-regarding

@Birdwoman Because it's s*** thing to go: to give people hope while lying. For me it's much nastier than twisting real leaks because the movie ultimately will be what it will be. This is what Super Shadow was doing during Prequels: he started as a vague leaker and then he was pretending that he works for LF. In the end he was arrested and made a public apology.

OrionStars wrote:@nickandnora
See, that's the problem, I've even tried to ask the people who don't attract to Kylo's character or any SW like me in an attempt of trying to have a clear picture of this mess and they say the leaks don't sound hopeless like what I'm thinking. They think it's ok and acceptable, the situation is hopeful, the Skywalker is still "survive" because Rey will carry their name. They think Rey is a vessel for Disney to create more Skywalker. They even tell me that with Kevin Feige entering the picture, soon we will move on from the phase of boring @as protagonists like Rey/Poe/Finn that can't even sell merch and will have more interesting protagonists and even more Skywalkers.
From people of the other side's point of view, our problem (and to an extent, dudebros' problem too) is that we're just too attracted to Kylo/Luke/the Skywalker of Lucas and the leaks don't cater to our need. The people in real life who know I'm a Kylo stan is thinking I'm just in denial after 3 years of marrying to the idea that Disney would treat the Skywalker of Lucas and Kylo better than this. JJ's interview about how he wanted to stray further from Lucas's  only makes me sad even more.            

@special_cases
It's a desperate situation, and Kira is a pro Reylo leakers, she's like a life vest for the Reylos on twitter.

@OrionStars

So... I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but don't ask people who know even less than we do, who are members of the general audience what they think, and expect their answers to suddenly contain some mystical sounding truth. My husband also thinks Kylo's going to die, in an offhand "never given it that much thought before"; he's not right because he's a member of the GA. I really don't get your reasoning here. You're essentially allowing yourself to be gaslighted.

J.J. has also described what happens to Kylo as "pretty fun." He's not that much of a masochist, people. Yes he enjoys misdirection, but of the best, most humourous kind. Not of the "remember that time I told you everything would be hopeful and fun, and then I made it AWFUL and MISERABLE!!! Hahahahaha, SUCKERS!" He's not Ian McEwan and this is not the book Atonement.

I will say it again, and I will say it 100 times if I have to: there is a way for the leaks to be broadly true and for them to be missing context and information that changes essentially the entire meaning of the story. Period.

Can we get back to talking about the leaks themselves, and for the love of God will someone please tell me what they think happens to Hux?!