Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

FWIW, they just ran a recut, shorter version of the trailer during the World Series. No new footage or dialogue. In this version, they show Rey facing Kylo in the rain then cut immediately to the tighter shot of him walking towards her and putting the lightsaber pointing behind him. Luke voiceover of “Confronting fear is the destiny of a Jedi.”

“Is the destiny” is played with Rey, and “of a Jedi” with Kylo. My reaction is they’re further setting the audience up for Bendemption. I would like to think also setting up for him to become a Jedi again long term, not just the climax of the movie.

Apologies if anyone already shared this earlier today.

OrionStars wrote:@tukicarreno
Of course, there are possibilities that some parts of the leak are incorrect, many fans on reddit already suspected that the plot doesn't flow because there are missing scenes. Adam hasn't been around to promote TROS, I have no idea what he's thinking about Kylo's arc right now.


@Kylo Men

Definitely agree, it's so shameless if Rey suddenly decides to adopt the name. You can't tell people that Rey adopts the name because she develops the relationship with the Skywalker... offscreen. No one is gonna buy that nonsense.  Even dudebros can't accept that sh*t. The entire saga will be dump down to a cesspool if JJ does that.

@OrionStars

It's really stricking that they always keep Adam away from promoting the movies as if there is something big about his arc from the beginning that they wanna keep hidden. It's not like they prevent Daisy from answering questions about Reylos now so what's the deal?

Now, maybe they don't want him on promo tour too early because he doesn't seem very at ease answering precise questions contrary to Daisy who is very good at avoiding things that shouldn't be answered directly. That was cool how she encouraged him once during TLJ tour together while he looked so nervous.

rey09 wrote:I was just reading somewhere about how Ben actually joins Rey against Palpatine thru a force bond, so even if he goes down the pit, it just ends their force connection and he's back on endor or wherever he was. Crisis averted lol?

https://www.inverse.com/article/59860-star-wars-9-leaks-kylo-ren-lives-or-dies

@rey09

Until we have some kind of info on how exactly Kylo gets off of DSII and to Rey, I do think this makes a lot of sense. If Rey steals his ship like the leaks say, he has no way to get anywhere physically. He can’t just call the First Order for help, because he’ll have turned by that point and I don’t think they’ll be itching to help him, considering the KoR, who should be on his side, fight him.

The leaks suggest that Kylo said the truth about who Ben Solo is/was:



and Kylo is no different. He is strugling in every fight and loses in most of them. He is made a fool at every turn by the heroes. And he comes to Palps at the end to give him unlimited power and is thrown into a pit never to be seen again. He achieves nothing in the entire movie. Either the description of his scenes is very off or his arc in this movie is just bad.

Geralt_Riv wrote:The leaks suggest that Kylo said the truth about who Ben Solo is/was:



and Kylo is no different. He is strugling in every fight and loses in most of them. He is made a fool at every turn by the heroes. And he comes to Palps at the end to give him unlimited power and is thrown into a pit never to be seen again. He achieves nothing in the entire movie. Either the description of his scenes is very off or his arc in this movie is just bad.

@Geralt_Riv

Yeah that's the problem with his character and Anakin's: they are "sold" from the beginning as characters whose Hero potentiality is enormous but in practice that role is just too big for their shoulders so they fail at basically everything. All these repeated falures are only worth in the end if J.J. has something big in store to make him an authentic bad*** hero in the end. Otherwise, that would be waste for the whole franchise.

reylo1992 wrote:

OrionStars wrote:@Geralt_Riv


Yeah, I agree. Personally, I never expect that I would have full-blown Reylo romance in TROS with kissy scenes, so I've always hoped that at least they give Kylo's proper arc, but the leaks deliver an impression that Abrams just wants to doom Kylo's character forever and give all glory to Rey so she can become Mary Sue force goddess or whatever. Lucas never damaged Vader character like that so Vader still remained as an iconic character for the past 40 years. I doubt that people want to invest in Kylo anymore after TROS if the leak is true.

@OrionStars

I would find that disappointing too. I mean, I have no problem with giving a compelling arc to Rey like she is some secret descendant of Obi-Wan or for whatever  holy reason she is meant to fulfill some role that Obi-Wan was supposed to in order to prevent the events in the PT. I saw all these brillant posts about Alpha & Omega and Da Vinci Code hints connected to Obi-Wan.

Very interesting but I really hope that they won't change the whole arc of the franchise by pushing the idea that actually the Jedi misinterpreted the prophecy by choosing  the wrong Chosen One in a Skywalker and making Rey the "surprise surprise" hidden hero coming from some Big secret just because a Skywalker was only meant to fail with that goal. The biggest part of me is confident through in J.J. comment's that the movie will give a satisfying answer to everything and connect all 9 movies coherently. I'm really curious to know what he has in store behind such a powerful title like The Rise of Skywalker that gives strong Jesus vibes.

Now we can imagine a lot of outcomes, i.e. that Palpatine/Plagueis (or whoever really hides behind the Big Bad) would have manipulated midichlorians to create Anakin  as the ultimate dark weapon to prevent the real Chosen One from bringing balance to the Force. That's the only rational explanation I can find right now for making Rey the real Hero and Ben the supportive one. Maybe it's gonna be the biggest tragedy and lesson for him in the end? Finding out that actually his sense of entitlement as sole descendant of the "Chosen One" bloodline was only justified from a certain POV, which was the misinterpretation of the Prophecy?

But the biggest part of me believes that the only way to redeem Ben fully and give him a really powerful arc is to have him fulfilling what Anakin didn't by saving millions of lifes, getting a good  explanation why the Force was so strong with Anakin in the first place and why his Darkness was meant to overshadow him and pass to his  Descendant (but strangely not to Luke & Leia)?

Because until now, neither Ben nor Anakin have done anything really remarkable to be honest. The only success Ben had was to scare a defenseless girl with his mask, defeating an untrained stormtrooper and tricking two old mens before killing them. Otherwise, he f**** up basically everything he did in TFA. He didn't show anything remarkable in TLJ either: he didn't succeed during the space battle, defeated PG only after Rey helped him and completely f**** up in front of Luke. Not sure he will defeat Rey just once during their battles.  The only thing we have seen so far is underlying potentiality, much like Anakin.

Even Anakin hasn't made anything really remarkable as a Chosen One when one look only at the movies. He was whining much during the whole AOTC movie, was unable to save Padme in the factory, got defeated by Dooku. In the end, he also defeated 3 old mens, the first because he was just old, the second because he let himself killed, the third because he killed him b surprise. If that wasn't for this important scene of Clone Wars, I think a lot of people would have a hard time to believe that Anakin was really the Chosen One. They seem to like Vader because he is iconic but not so much Anakin who is often described as whiny.

Not surprising that many people find characters like Obi-Wan or Rey more compelling or why not more worthy to be the ideal Hero, as if the movie makers wanted us to know that there was some casting error with this Chosen One thing from the beginning, unless they're gonna give a satisfafying explanation and have The Skywalker showing his full potentiality only at the very end. At that point, both options are possible : either Rey is the hidden Chosen One no one expected while the Skywalker bloodline was the Tree hiding the forest all along or Ben is really this cursed Prince meant to fulfill Anakin's role and Rey was the Tree hiding the Forest during the ST. Or were they meant to be two Chosen Ones from the beginning and only one branch was known while the other remained hidden? That would make an interested parallel with Castle in the Sky (+ Atlantis).


By the way, do people have the same feeling that this scene with C-3PO is misleading? A lot of fans seem to interpret it like he will sacrifice himself. What if Rey would find out that she needs to access to specific part of his memory because a key part of the puzzle is missing? After all, C-3PO could have heard important infos he heard during the AOTC / ROTS time period that weren't shown in the movie, including stuff that Yoda and Obi-Wan could have discussed about this Prophecy before they went to exile. Maybe will realize that she needs that kind of infos after reading the old Jedi books?

@reylo1992

I think Vader did have a heroic act, he saved his son by throwing Palpy down the pit. Some people don't like Anakin's impulsive trait when he was young, but he still archived a lot of things and Vader's personality made up for his flaws in fanboys' eyes.
Lucas made mistakes when he was trying to create an anti-hero like Anakin, but overall Lucas did the best he could to give Anakin a meaningful arc. While they have always treated Kylo like s*** since TFA, he has always been the underdog, fanboys had a really hard time to take Kylo seriously because of what Abrams did to the character in TFA.
Obiwan character was interesting because of Ewan's acting, but I can't recall he has any outstanding act in the movies for general audience, he was just a mentor like Qui-gon, and I haven't met anyone in real life who prefers Obiwan over Anakin, it seems like the people I know prefer complicated 3 dimensional characters more than the flawless 1 dimensional ones.
From what I've seen, fanboy dudebros want Rey to be their "chosen one" mostly because they just want Rey to be Luke's biological child. They really don't care about Rey as a character at all and they're enraged too because she's really not Luke's daughter, she just takes the name and declares herself as Skywalker. You might think our forum is doomy and gloomy but the truth is the other SW communities on the internet isn't just doomy and gloomy, they're in hellfire.

reylo1992 wrote:

OrionStars wrote:@tukicarreno
Of course, there are possibilities that some parts of the leak are incorrect, many fans on reddit already suspected that the plot doesn't flow because there are missing scenes. Adam hasn't been around to promote TROS, I have no idea what he's thinking about Kylo's arc right now.


@Kylo Men

Definitely agree, it's so shameless if Rey suddenly decides to adopt the name. You can't tell people that Rey adopts the name because she develops the relationship with the Skywalker... offscreen. No one is gonna buy that nonsense.  Even dudebros can't accept that sh*t. The entire saga will be dump down to a cesspool if JJ does that.

@OrionStars

It's really stricking that they always keep Adam away from promoting the movies as if there is something big about his arc from the beginning that they wanna keep hidden. It's not like they prevent Daisy from answering questions about Reylos now so what's the deal?

Now, maybe they don't want him on promo tour too early because he doesn't seem very at ease answering precise questions contrary to Daisy who is very good at avoiding things that shouldn't be answered directly. That was cool how she encouraged him once during TLJ tour together while he looked so nervous.

@reylo1992

To be honest, now that I think about it Kylo can't just die thrown in a pit or hole in the end.  Adam did seem very excited about his arc in this trilogy so that gives me hope that his fate is not known but just by very few people like JJ, Adam himself and Daisy maybe even Naomi because she nodded very slyly when asked about the ending and she was smiling.Maybe a couple of crew people close to JJ know, but not marketing guys which are the ones who feed info to MSW. Anyhoo, I have decided to still have hope guys! Remember what Leia said:

"Hope is like the sun. If you only believe in it  when you see it, you will never make it through the night".

tukicarreno wrote:

reylo1992 wrote:

OrionStars wrote:@tukicarreno
Of course, there are possibilities that some parts of the leak are incorrect, many fans on reddit already suspected that the plot doesn't flow because there are missing scenes. Adam hasn't been around to promote TROS, I have no idea what he's thinking about Kylo's arc right now.


@Kylo Men

Definitely agree, it's so shameless if Rey suddenly decides to adopt the name. You can't tell people that Rey adopts the name because she develops the relationship with the Skywalker... offscreen. No one is gonna buy that nonsense.  Even dudebros can't accept that sh*t. The entire saga will be dump down to a cesspool if JJ does that.

@OrionStars

It's really stricking that they always keep Adam away from promoting the movies as if there is something big about his arc from the beginning that they wanna keep hidden. It's not like they prevent Daisy from answering questions about Reylos now so what's the deal?

Now, maybe they don't want him on promo tour too early because he doesn't seem very at ease answering precise questions contrary to Daisy who is very good at avoiding things that shouldn't be answered directly. That was cool how she encouraged him once during TLJ tour together while he looked so nervous.

@reylo1992

To be honest, now that I think about it Kylo can't just die thrown in a pit or hole in the end.  Adam did seem very excited about his arc in this trilogy so that gives me hope that his fate is not known but just by very few people like JJ, Adam himself and Daisy maybe even Naomi because she nodded very slyly when asked about the ending and she was smiling.Maybe a couple of crew people close to JJ know, but not marketing guys which are the ones who feed info to MSW. Anyhoo, I have decided to still have hope guys! Remember what Leia said:

"Hope is like the sun. If you only believe in it  when you see it, you will never make it through the night".

@tukicarreno

Adam seems to leave it all on the field, to use a sports metaphor, and seems to do little to no “acting” in interviews and panels. When he’s Kylo Ren, he’s 100% into the character, but as Adam Driver, he’s a guy who doesn’t lie or fudge or prevaricate very well in real life. They’re wise to save him for publicity after the film is out and the secrets have been spilled— he’s real, and he isn’t smooth when put on the spot. So I trust his behavior about his character, and it’s always been positive.

@tukicarreno

After a day of speculation, I’m thinking along the same lines you are

Not going to worry about Kylo dying anymore unless we hear something concrete to the contrary. It just doesn’t make sense and would disappoint many more people than not. So far, everything we’ve been shown has been incredibly uplifting.

To be fair, Adam is really busy with his new projects, he just becomes a producer for a film, the actors who attended the press, SW celebration and the SW show where people playing with SW toys didn't have any film projects to do and they had a lot of free time. No actor wants to have nothing to do, so it's better if they at least could have a public event to participate, even if it's just a toy show.

First of all, as everybody here, I'm shocked with these pics. Wow, just, wow.

I'm on the team Ben!Redemption, so, rn, I'll be happy if, at least, we got his redemption (yeah, I fell that low). If he will die or not, if he will resurrect or not, well, I have no control over it, and I will try to enjoy this movie, because I've been invested in this trilogy for years.

I only have 3 comments:

1.Tsc, tsc, Bad Robot's security is a joke;
2. Rian, baby, you have my respect;
3. I actually like the pic of Ben and Rey side by side with blue lightsabers. The scene looks beautiful. (And, Ben looks prominent in the pic).

What a rollercoaster of feelings in the Reylo / Bendemption community...I'm getting a whiplash.

I'm at a point where I don't let my excitement for the movie be ruined by leaks/theories.

It's not even 2 month away now, guys. Let's try not to be so negative already. I have my expectations in check but I keep an open mind.
If all "leaks" turn out to be true and as bad as they sound without context I deal with it after I have seen the movie- and I hate to say that, but it's just a movie.

Krafty wrote:

Gemini wrote:

spacebaby45678 wrote:

Riri wrote:

[edit]
Omg leaked image from SWL!

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLeaks/comments/dlmhcp/new_leaked_image/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

@Riri

OMG!!
@Gemini  YOU BEEN KNEW SINCE 2016     I'm properly shooketh...  

This is not a drill
Blue saber... Obi/Leia's saber...
Screams... Obikin...
It's the ChiRo....
Ack!!

@spacebaby45678

If that saber is Obi Wans saber..then YAY at my saber theory from 2017 LOL...Then the saber in TFA trailer in Kylos hand is Obi Wans saber, he saw Rey through it and has been in possession of it since then. He's been keeping it from her until he is ready to accept who she is and give it to her?


Not going to get my hopes up though. I feel pretty drained with most things I theorise about, these days! It may just be Kylos mother's saber and that's it. When Vince Vendetta stole my saber  theory and made money off it,  it just killed me a bit inside   I was putting so much hard work into that theory and someone made money off my research! Literally stole my words from Tumblr and read them out as if they were his.

But, any how.... removing that Saber from TFA teaser trailer....literally removed the answers to a LOT of things.  I always said it. "The hidden light saber and how LF have hidden the key to everything"

@Gemini

OK BUT....
Where is this other saber coming from? Seriously. Am I the only one that finds it hard to grasp the plausibility of a Leia saber? Don't get me wrong it would be cool but the set up just wasn't there IMO.

**edit** And has anyone else seen the picture of Rey facing off with Palpatine on Reddit? I just saw it. I'm shook.

@Krafty

You know, it could be flash back and its kylo with Anakins saber and rey is seeing him? Or its kylos saber bled out?

However, JW has said that rey pulls out another blue saber which is apparently leias. So it's a high possibility that kylo is holding a complete different saber to Anakins.

If my original  guess from 2017 is correct. Kylo went looking for Anakins lost saber and accidentally found Obi Wans lost saber, killed a clan for it with the KoR, picked it up and got a force back of Rey. If you put this below image from TFA teaser back in to the final version of TFA: kylo picks it up, snaps his head round and sees rey either in her full mask..or being abandoned as a child. (Which is why hes not so sure when he sees her as an adult if it's the same girl)





Kylo has been in possession of it since then. (If that scene was the past) "what girl?" Which indicates it was the past.

However if Leia is in possession of it, then it means they have changed the story. It may just be leias saber now. Not obi wans.

Either way, if its obi wans, Vader would have picked up obis saber after killing him on the DS, right? Kylo looks for relics relating to Vader, like an obsession. It's not too crazy to suggest he found it.

As to why Leia would have it? Maybe she took it from Kylo..or they have changed the story and kylo took it from her and that's how he saw rey. Because they did hide the saber we saw in TFA teaser when it came to the force back scene. It gives flexibility if they want to change it.

You  know, to now fit in with TLJ, and Kylos apparent unawareness of who rey really is. They may make the vision scene where kylo realises who she is in TRoS when he takes the saber from Leia after she dies? Kylo IMO is always the one who has the knowledge of her true identity. He just withholds it from her until he turns Good because Rey Kenobi is detrimental to his plans as supreme leader.

Again, this is why Kylo wont stay dead. They are both holding on to the opposing saber and kylo will get Anakins saber? Rey will have Obi Wans/Leias.

It makes sense that Leia would hold on to obi wans saber. He was her only hope.

@special_cases Yes, I read the leaks, though I don't tend to go back to them afterwards. These particular sets are so vast, and convoluted, and often poorly phrased and disjointed, and constantly shifting, it's starting to turn into a blur, difficult to keep track of even with effort. I don't necessarily discount everything they say, but people take literally everything they say at face value without question. Jason with a full TFA script got stuff wrong. People who saw TLJ in full got stuff wrong.

It's not just that JP and frankly JW being jerks, or lording it over other people and doing whatever they can to protect their reputation, or being anti something or other, that's the problem. I don't necessarily believe pro-Reylo leaks either, not whoever that Kira person on Twitter was, maybe not even the Ben with blue saber shot. I'm wary of everyone at this point, it's such a bizarre power game, it honestly makes me uncomfortable.

And watching people go from euphoric confidence to despair, rage, disillusionment, cynicism, and unqualified disgust with the utmost certainty in the span of half a day is just... I'm really kind of over it? I have a fairly high tolerance for this kind of thing, but gates like this happen over, and over, and over, and over again and rarely yield anything, even if the leaker has seen the actual movie. Is there no boundary for when fandom discourse and reactions enter absurd territory? None of the big name Reylos with the metas and podcasts are taking any of this remotely seriously, and they're the ones who have been right about basically everything up to this point.

Which leads me to the bigger point. After all this, all the years, all the endless validation from every direction, at the end of the day, the larger fandom was right. We're crack theorists, naive, and overly-sentimental, and don't understand SW or how movies are made, or how any given filmmaker operates. The Reylos, Bendemptionists, and worse, the cast, directors, writers, KK, you name it, the people who have understood, predicted, and/or created the story in question up to this point, very abruptly stopped being right about some of the biggest elements of the ST. It's one thing to analyze what the leakers put out, or to think certain things are right in particular ways (not saying they aren't) but to accept them wholecloth throws basically all the creators and a chunk of the fanbase under the bus. Like maybe we really weren't valid, or smart, or this has been the most elaborate arrangement of lies known to blockbuster media. Though as some have pointed out, Adam is terrible at hiding his thoughts and feelings about the ST, and Daisy and JJ are both pretty bad at covering things up too!

@gemini

What you also picked up on with this theory that came to fruition in TLJ was the force skype.. because it happens in Rey's vision. Wow..

OrionStars wrote:

reylo1992 wrote:

OrionStars wrote:@Geralt_Riv


Yeah, I agree. Personally, I never expect that I would have full-blown Reylo romance in TROS with kissy scenes, so I've always hoped that at least they give Kylo's proper arc, but the leaks deliver an impression that Abrams just wants to doom Kylo's character forever and give all glory to Rey so she can become Mary Sue force goddess or whatever. Lucas never damaged Vader character like that so Vader still remained as an iconic character for the past 40 years. I doubt that people want to invest in Kylo anymore after TROS if the leak is true.

@OrionStars

I would find that disappointing too. I mean, I have no problem with giving a compelling arc to Rey like she is some secret descendant of Obi-Wan or for whatever  holy reason she is meant to fulfill some role that Obi-Wan was supposed to in order to prevent the events in the PT. I saw all these brillant posts about Alpha & Omega and Da Vinci Code hints connected to Obi-Wan.

Very interesting but I really hope that they won't change the whole arc of the franchise by pushing the idea that actually the Jedi misinterpreted the prophecy by choosing  the wrong Chosen One in a Skywalker and making Rey the "surprise surprise" hidden hero coming from some Big secret just because a Skywalker was only meant to fail with that goal. The biggest part of me is confident through in J.J. comment's that the movie will give a satisfying answer to everything and connect all 9 movies coherently. I'm really curious to know what he has in store behind such a powerful title like The Rise of Skywalker that gives strong Jesus vibes.

Now we can imagine a lot of outcomes, i.e. that Palpatine/Plagueis (or whoever really hides behind the Big Bad) would have manipulated midichlorians to create Anakin  as the ultimate dark weapon to prevent the real Chosen One from bringing balance to the Force. That's the only rational explanation I can find right now for making Rey the real Hero and Ben the supportive one. Maybe it's gonna be the biggest tragedy and lesson for him in the end? Finding out that actually his sense of entitlement as sole descendant of the "Chosen One" bloodline was only justified from a certain POV, which was the misinterpretation of the Prophecy?

But the biggest part of me believes that the only way to redeem Ben fully and give him a really powerful arc is to have him fulfilling what Anakin didn't by saving millions of lifes, getting a good  explanation why the Force was so strong with Anakin in the first place and why his Darkness was meant to overshadow him and pass to his  Descendant (but strangely not to Luke & Leia)?

Because until now, neither Ben nor Anakin have done anything really remarkable to be honest. The only success Ben had was to scare a defenseless girl with his mask, defeating an untrained stormtrooper and tricking two old mens before killing them. Otherwise, he f**** up basically everything he did in TFA. He didn't show anything remarkable in TLJ either: he didn't succeed during the space battle, defeated PG only after Rey helped him and completely f**** up in front of Luke. Not sure he will defeat Rey just once during their battles.  The only thing we have seen so far is underlying potentiality, much like Anakin.

Even Anakin hasn't made anything really remarkable as a Chosen One when one look only at the movies. He was whining much during the whole AOTC movie, was unable to save Padme in the factory, got defeated by Dooku. In the end, he also defeated 3 old mens, the first because he was just old, the second because he let himself killed, the third because he killed him b surprise. If that wasn't for this important scene of Clone Wars, I think a lot of people would have a hard time to believe that Anakin was really the Chosen One. They seem to like Vader because he is iconic but not so much Anakin who is often described as whiny.

Not surprising that many people find characters like Obi-Wan or Rey more compelling or why not more worthy to be the ideal Hero, as if the movie makers wanted us to know that there was some casting error with this Chosen One thing from the beginning, unless they're gonna give a satisfafying explanation and have The Skywalker showing his full potentiality only at the very end. At that point, both options are possible : either Rey is the hidden Chosen One no one expected while the Skywalker bloodline was the Tree hiding the forest all along or Ben is really this cursed Prince meant to fulfill Anakin's role and Rey was the Tree hiding the Forest during the ST. Or were they meant to be two Chosen Ones from the beginning and only one branch was known while the other remained hidden? That would make an interested parallel with Castle in the Sky (+ Atlantis).


By the way, do people have the same feeling that this scene with C-3PO is misleading? A lot of fans seem to interpret it like he will sacrifice himself. What if Rey would find out that she needs to access to specific part of his memory because a key part of the puzzle is missing? After all, C-3PO could have heard important infos he heard during the AOTC / ROTS time period that weren't shown in the movie, including stuff that Yoda and Obi-Wan could have discussed about this Prophecy before they went to exile. Maybe will realize that she needs that kind of infos after reading the old Jedi books?

@reylo1992

I think Vader did have a heroic act, he saved his son by throwing Palpy down the pit. Some people don't like Anakin's impulsive trait when he was young, but he still archived a lot of things and Vader's personality made up for his flaws in fanboys' eyes.
Lucas made mistakes when he was trying to create an anti-hero like Anakin, but overall Lucas did the best he could to give Anakin a meaningful arc. While they have always treated Kylo like s*** since TFA, he has always been the underdog, fanboys had a really hard time to take Kylo seriously because of what Abrams did to the character in TFA.
Obiwan character was interesting because of Ewan's acting, but I can't recall he has any outstanding act in the movies for general audience, he was just a mentor like Qui-gon, and I haven't met anyone in real life who prefers Obiwan over Anakin, it seems like the people I know prefer complicated 3 dimensional characters more than the flawless 1 dimensional ones.
From what I've seen, fanboy dudebros want Rey to be their "chosen one" mostly because they just want Rey to be Luke's biological child. They really don't care about Rey as a character at all and they're enraged too because she's really not Luke's daughter, she just takes the name and declares herself as Skywalker. You might think our forum is doomy and gloomy but the truth is the other SW communities on the internet isn't just doomy and gloomy, they're in hellfire.

@OrionStars

Don't worry, I don't find the forum doomy / gloomy. I joined it 3 years ago because I find the analysis deep and generally open-minded. It always feel enriching when I come here because  I've learnt a lot about the SW universe and general knowledge.  

To be honest, I don't have a a very wide knowledge of the whole SW universe. I don't even know if fan is the right word for me because I didn't grow up at all with that universe. My parents, who are from the same generation as Mark and Carrie, never watched these movies. So I really fell into the SW universe "by accident" with ROTS. So basically I began my SW journey with the closing film lol By the way,  it's still my favorite SW movie to this day. And aside from the Skywalker franchise, I haven't much knowledge about what happened before /after / in-between although the forum gave me clues there. So it's hard for me to understand why some diehard fans are so crazy about the PT & the ST for ruining their childhood.  Basically, I can accept any outcome if it's coherent and respectful.

It's also important to keep in mind that a lot of people like me who enjoy SW actually go to the theaters without having researched deep about the entire universe. So the only thing I really care about is that the movie makers make something that is accessible to the widest audience and that someone like me doesn't go out of the theater thinking: "Music was  terrific, Movie was visually thrilling but plot gives me no other choice than watching previous & future Disney/LF products".

As a viewer, I don't mind that they take some inspiration from the Old Republic, the CW, etc... but IMO it's important that they primarily focus on the holes left by the 2 previous trilogies, especially the PT. If we take a look at the story formed by the 6 first movies, the franchise is primarily about the trajectory of Anakin Skywalker/Vader aka the Chosen One - aka Space Jesus - from childhood to death. The problem is that Skywalker didn't bring balance at the end of ROTJ: peace didn't last, the Jedi Order was destroyed and on top of that Palps isn't even defeated. Although saving Luke was an heroic act on a personal level, it's only the result of a 2 minute flipping. In the end, he didn't have the Chosen One moment for the entire galaxy to see that counterbalanced the millions deaths caused by the war. That's why, I've always felt that something was missing to close the Skywalker arc properly.

The challenge for J.J. is that there are so many key questions to answer in only  2 hours 30 minutes and we need good 2/3 of it dedicated to connect all movies together in a coherent arc, which require to give a satisfying answer to the original questions raised by TPM: how was Skywalker created if it wasn't by natural conception ? For which purpose was Skywalker created ? Why was Skywalker so strong in the Force? If the main antagonist is still alive, does it make sense that Skywalker died once and for all in ROTJ ? What is the exact meaning behind the Rise of Skywalker ? (Btw, the French title of TROS is l'Ascension de Skywalker, which is the same expression as l'Ascension du Christ used to describe the rise of Jesus to the Heavens)

I agree with you that until now, Kylo has been treated like s*** in this trilogy. If that wasn't for the potentiality of his character development, he could be easily compared with a guy like Drago Malfoy, especially during his confrontation with Luke (self-entitled, mediocre, whiny, influencable). So IMO, the  worst thing they could do with Ben would be to give him the exact same arc as Vader in the end of ROTJ: going always more evil, changing side  after a 2 minutes flipping and making him die miserably without giving him the big Redemption / Rise / Chosen One arc that the  entire galaxy was supposed to witness with Anakin/ Vader. If not, the Skywalker legacy would remain pretty tainted: Anakin enabled the Empire to rise and kill millions of people,, Hanleia are more or less described as fanatics who neglected their son, Luke failed to avoid  tragedy to repeat itself only to end up alone on an island after the destruction of the new Jedi Order.

Now again, maybe they will give us the big "surprise surprise" moment by revealing that the entire Chosen One thing was smoke or that a key part of that was hidden. I've never digged into Rey' origins because I've always considered her trajectory was more important based on Maz's line (The belonging you seek is not behind you. It is ahead).  So far, the most solid evidences I have seen are from people who believe she is connected to Obi-Wan in some way.

I agree that I don't remember anything out of ordinary from Obi-Wan in the movies but from a certain point of view he acted more Jesus-like than Anakin did in his way of behaving:  showing anger without falling into darkness ; behaving brave without being unconscious; being devoted to a cause without becoming fanatic; living frugally without self-entitlement of grandeur, etc... The big difference between Obi-Wan/Rey and Anakin/Ben is that the first ones always manage to balance their behavior in the end no matter the difficulties or emotions they go through while  Anakin/Ben are both unable to do that. So maybe the big lesson will be that becoming a "Chosen One" ain't about your midichlorian level but your resilience.

So all of that leaves a lot of question until the movie comes out because if we admit the idea that the Prophecy was misinterpreted: does it mean that Anakin was the wrong person or just an uncomplete Chosen One without the second piece coming together ? Does it mean we were supposed to have two Chosen Ones a la Harry/Neville from the beginning but where was this second Chosen One all along as darkness rise with the Empire ? And if Anakin was really the or a Chosen One, why would he have died once and for all not fulfilling his mission for a second Chosen One to fix all his mistakes decades later ? If he is still alive, does he still live in Ben and/or Rey in some way ?

Anyone notice how as clockwork,  after a trailer, a bunch of leaks come out?

Its almost as if the leaks are controlled. Or they are faked?

I should be jumping for joy over the two blue Sabers...but I'm not, really...

Something is weird.

Or maybe like me you're reluctant to get excited.

motherofpearl1 wrote:Or maybe like me you're reluctant to get excited.

@motherofpearl1

A little  bit, lol.

Someone on reddit made a good point about what he thinks is going on with these leaks and I think he may be right.

He says these 2 saber images are probably real and will be in a TV spot for xmas. Someone from trailor editing is leaking stuff. They are working with lots of random clips. JW and JP know one of these trailet leakers and are basing their leaks off the trailer material. Making vast guesses and jumps as well, hence  the varying leaks.

This is why the leaks are heavily similar to the trailer and why we have not heard anything about Pryde, Rose, KoR...because they have never/ hardly been seen in the new trailers.

What we are not seeing are the actual important plot points. Just trailer points.

Really hope that pic is real!
I think - if it is - that Kylo's blue sabre is the one he fought Luke with on Acht To.

Gemini wrote:Anyone notice how as clockwork,  after a trailer, a bunch of leaks come out?

Its almost as if the leaks are controlled. Or they are faked?

I should be jumping for joy over the two blue Sabers...but I'm not, really...

Something is weird.

@Gemini

I agree. Stuff is just not snapping into place the way it normally would for me. Could it be Leias saber? Of course. But it has to make sense. Where did it come from? How did they get it? And why now are they showing it? Questions that have to be answered and make sense within the narrative.

IDK. Personally I would think it was a lot more meaningful and visually dramatic if Kylo's spitting red saber starts to flicker and go blue. I doubt that's what it is though because the quillions would be blue as well and light up his face a different way. Regardless that's just me

Actually I thought that myself - especially as the pic only shows the lower half of the sabre, not the hilt!

motherofpearl1 wrote:Actually I thought that myself - especially as the pic only shows the lower half of the sabre, not the hilt!

@motherofpearl1

I know!

No one seems to describe the saber hilt. Which again, leads me to believe that its someone from trailer editing leaking images and stuff to JW and JP. They dont know what saber it is because the footage they have only shows the blue not the hilt.

They have made a wild guess that the saber is Leias? We also have no backup explaining where that saber comes from. Only that it suddenly appears.

Sounds like a trailer footage which did not make the final product.

Gemini wrote:

motherofpearl1 wrote:Actually I thought that myself - especially as the pic only shows the lower half of the sabre, not the hilt!

@motherofpearl1

I know!

No one seems to describe the saber hilt. Which again, leads me to believe that its someone from trailer editing leaking images and stuff to JW and JP. They dont know what saber it is because the footage they have only shows the blue not the hilt.

They have made a wild guess that the saber is Leias?

@Gemini

And Rey has already shown she can call and whiled Ben's saber so it's not out of reach to say that if she does end up fighting with two sabers at some point, she could have commandeered Ben's.