Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

californiagirl wrote:I'm getting the impression that Poe, while still a major character and with a story and/or arc of his own, might be a bit less central than in TLJ. Like, he's clearly still in the main group, but while TLJ marketing was very much Poe Gets His Own Subplot Separate From Everyone Else, I'm getting the sense his story in TROS is within the context of a larger group of people.

We've been told the sith troopers are loyal to Kylo, but I don't really buy that. Sounds like a mid-movie twist. And I've been so suspicious of Pryde since spring.

Teo oswald wrote:@Gemini

Yeah , Ben is coming!!!  I would not be surprised if I hear in the cinema: "Welcome home Ben"



I don't understand what they say, but the images are worth more than words

Teo oswald wrote:@Gemini

Yeah , Ben is coming!!! I would not be surprised if I hear in the cinema: "Welcome home Ben"



I don't understand what they say, but the images are worth more than words

In Del Toro’s reckoning, there are ghosts, and monsters, and their nature is not one and the same. There is a definite subversion of the nature of ghosts in Crimson Peak. They are indeed monstrous upon sight, decaying and corrupted flesh, anatomically exposed and bearing vicious wounds. But most importantly they are not, as in so many ghost stories, manifestations of Edith’s guilt. Rather her alienated sensitivity to the world (wonderfully, empathically embodied by Wasikowska) has made the echoes of their terrorized past apparent. The ghosts, the monsters on the surface, are humanized.

OrionStars wrote:Ok, I forgot to mention this but in that Jedi Fallen Order game, Vader literally threw Cere down the pit, but she came back later to aid Cal when he was nearly lost against Vader. It seems like "falling down the pit" has become SW's traditional twist. Let's pray that Kylo can come back after he gets yeeted down the pit in TROS like Cere too.

Armadeus wrote:@snufkin

The ruined Death Star set would be a great opportuniyy for the film makers to maybe employ some Expressionist imagery. I can definitely see the potential for Caligari-style images with their impossibly slanted angles reflecting the darker aspects of the characters' psyches:



Heck, Palpatine is already sounding like some kind of vampire, so why not have some Nosferatu homages?

snufkin wrote:With the ruins of the second Death Star imagery & discussions around the gothic romance/horror genre, I re-visited Guillermo del Toro's Crimson Peak. Which came out 2 months before TFA and GdT is another one of JJ's good friends/collaborators besides Ava (JJ gave the dedication speech for his star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame) and they're both major cult fanboys when it comes to movies like Phantom of the Paradise. Can't help imagining that there's going to be a fair influence/inspiration on TRoS from Crimson Peak when it comes to the Force plot. Another detail which I expect to see explored further is the Monster/Creature motif in the dialogue between Rey and Ben because we know that GdT loves his monsters and monster romances



We have these two characters visiting/residing in the ruined estates of the history central to their worlds and the own families - Rey being abandoned and growing up on Ache-to as a scavenger in the graveyard of the last great battle between the Rebel Alliance and then Imperials and then whatever is going to happen in the ruins of the 2nd Death Star. The surface plot, which will is going to get called fan service/nostalgia, has then revisiting these 'haunted houses' as part of finally confronting/exorcising their family ghosts and secrets, what happened to Ben's grandparents which impacted 3 generations of a family and the galaxy. The biggest secret/ghost in the story that will be explored is what led Rey's parents to abandon their daughter and end up dead? While my expectation is that the Dark Rey imagery is about exploring/finding catharsis about that trauma so she can move on in life, my suspicion is that trauma will continue to fuel her motivation/actions and draw her further into the web of whatever the Emperor has been up to (mostly that the darkness she's been holding inside of her will make her vulnerable & whatever happens in that plot will be how she exorcises it for good).

Another angle I've thought about in terms of Crimson Peak is how the gothic romance/horror genre explores the confrontation between tradition/history and change. Which is something we've seen explored in the ST, especially through Ben's attempts at living up the family legacy through his Kylo Ren persona/"the new Vader" and both the Resistance and the First Order both fighting to restore the previous world orders (the Old Republic and the Empire). 100% straight out of the Gothic Romance genre playbook is that Rey like all heroines is a great reader in her entry point into the action/conflict is as somebody who's "heard the stories" about the Jedi in her conversations with Han (in which he in turn tells her another central story of the ST, about One Boy) and learning that Luke isn't just somebody who isn't a myth, but what the truth is behind that myth. She's also not a passive consumer of these stories, but an active participant who causes new stories to add to the myth - Han's return to his family/sacrifice, the truth about what happened between Luke and Ben, and Luke's heroic stand which in turn inspires other 'readers' like Broom Boy & pals. Finally she walks off from her encounter with Luke in full possession of the Jedi's Sacred Texts, which will likely further prompt the truth behind the initial rift between the Jedi and the Sith.

Ghosts Are Movies: A Love Letter to Crimson Peak

In Del Toro’s reckoning, there are ghosts, and monsters, and their nature is not one and the same. There is a definite subversion of the nature of ghosts in Crimson Peak. They are indeed monstrous upon sight, decaying and corrupted flesh, anatomically exposed and bearing vicious wounds. But most importantly they are not, as in so many ghost stories, manifestations of Edith’s guilt. Rather her alienated sensitivity to the world (wonderfully, empathically embodied by Wasikowska) has made the echoes of their terrorized past apparent. The ghosts, the monsters on the surface, are humanized.

tl:dr - another movie I'm gonna strongly recommend watching to get a sense of where they're going with the Force plot in terms of the Death Star ruins and the Emperor is Crimson Peak.

Crimson Peak also explores what Kate Ferguson Ellis dubs the “female gothic”; a story concerned with the way female subjects are incarcerated and confined by the repressive ideologies and structures of patriarchal society. The horror of Crimson Peak lies as much in its exploration of the characters’ emotions, in its “feminine” concerns, as in its depiction of gruesome violence and sexual transgression.
...
a gothic romance intimately concerned with the emotional burden of familial and romantic relationships – and with the psychological cost that care demands take on women. It is also a film that is interested in sexual transgression, monstrosity and excess. Del Toro’s entangling of horror with romance refuses to privilege one form over the other. Subsequently, the film’s horror is located both in the grotesque ghosts and brutal violence and in the claustrophobia its feminine emotional register produces. And as such, it takes horror back to its beginning.

Shelley Farmer wrote:As Edith describes in the beginning, these female ghosts carry symbolic weight, illustrating in a heightened, fantastical fashion the ways in which women can protect each other, even while living in a world that is structured to act against their autonomy and self-preservation. They, too, are visions of the legacy of the past trauma and violence that reverberates through the lives of the living, though theirs is not limited to their own personal suffering, but carries the burden of an eternal history of women lost to violence.

Gemini wrote:
@spacebaby45678
That is fricking creepy, if so. The attire does look like KoR. The face is like a sewn on mask. Weird.

nana7marie wrote:@spacebaby45678
@Gemini
@FrolickingFizzgig
Oh, I’d love it - it’d definitely add to the creep factor and that’d be something newish in the franchise. And as @SW_Heroine_Journey has said, Ridley called TRoS ‘scary’ among other things, so that’d fit.

spacebaby45678 wrote:

Gemini wrote:I'm in firm belief that the truth will set Ben Solo free and Rey wont find it negative and will be thankful. All she wants is Ben Solo back.  I think that the second Kylo allows her to know her place is the second Ben Solo returns and I'll explain why I think this. Its down to visual storytelling and what it means thematically, emotionally and symbolically for Rey and Kylo and the saga as a whole.

As I have stated before in the marketing thread. Most competent poster designers in the industry worth their salt,  know how "show and not tell" with a poster. I've worked in film, I've also created posters for people. We don't get told the plot points but we are told what to put and where on a poster because its the message the studio wants you to put out. A good film poster is designed in such a way as to subtly reveal the themes and possible plot points/tools of the film we are going to see. When they do this correctly, its usually something you will look back on and understand once you get that moment and themes played out on screen. TFA and TLJ posters quite clearly show Rey being the spark of Kylo redemption. In TLJ is also a spark for Luke to ascend.I think that TROS poster is taking this one step further. On all the official posters for the Rise of Skywalker. Rey is trying to do one thing, she is trying to get to the part of the column where you can disable the tractor beam. Palpatine is a looming presence  and Kylo is blocking that particular spot.s he's trying to also do this in the second and final one but this time Palpatine is gone. Instead we have Kylo and the Milennium Falcon shooting upwards over Kylos face. Ascending, rising..Why is all of this relevant to redemption and Ben Solo in TROS? Because Obi Wan disabling the tractor beam is what allows the Millenium Falcon to be set free of the constraints of the death star and the dark side. Its what allows Luke, Leia, Han to rise and escape as well in An New Hope The truth will set Ben Solo free from the constraints of the dark side.

To me this is stunningly beautiful story telling. Not only in regards to the symbolism of the saga but in terms of Bendemption and Reylo as a whole. Its beautiful. Its poetic. It fits. I understand others may not see it like that and that Kylo Ren witholding the truth until the right moment means he is a terrible person. Not to me. Ben Solo much like the Falcon is just TRAPPED and needs to be freed  I dont quite know how LF will entwine this theme with the dialogue and character growth but I have 100% faith it will be done beautifully without making Ben Solo look bad. In fact..there may even be a solid and valid reason why Kylo is not revealing who she is yet, it could be for protection and not because its detrimental to his plans. I dont know yet but I know that LF will not make him look like a terrible person either way. Heck, it may have even changed and he doesnt even find out himself until moments before he returns to her. I dont know. I often say he already knows because of the moment in TFA teaser where he clearly picks up Obi Wans saber. He says "what girl" later like he has seen her before but is unsure.  This may have changed now, after all it was hidden in the final version of TFA and can change. It may do. I would personally prefer him to realize it maybe moments before he decides to return to Rey and fight with her but I just cant argue with the visuals I've seen yet. As far as I can guess. He has held the key to the saga for ages.
Snape lied to Harry throughout his whole life. Harry learns the truth and does NOT hate Snape, the audience does not hate Snape. Snape is a hero. Harry respects him and even names his kid after him once the truth is revealed.Jon Snow didnt hate Ned for lying about his lineage either. The Audience also does not hate Ned for lying.If this is the moment it happens and the truth and her place is revealed then she looks a lot happier and relieved towards Ben than she does towards Kylo in any other part of the trailer where he is supposed to be telling her She's a nobody and a Palpatine. Ben solo being free is what Rey has wanted from him all along. For him to be set free from the constraints, turmoil and shackles of Kylo Ren of the dark side. It seems to be happening when he returns with the second light saber. They set each other free.

@Gemini

literally everyone else..


The topps cards for the run up to TROS... as some interesting insertions from the saga... notice the iconic moments TOPPS are displaying.. for the Emperor.. not the death star but his botched arrest in ROTS... which is the mirror image of TROS.. on in Chiasm the reversal.. means they will get him this time..The Iconic moment is the Death Star fight between Obi Wan and Darth..


Also, as far as the Death Star relating to Obi Wan in any way... I know in the trailer for TROS.. when MH does the voice over and says... "no one is ever really gone" the music there is snipped from that moment on the MF in ANH when Luke tells Leia.. "I can't believe he is gone" .so the musical cue gives us a BIG hint about who the voice over is really about..
3 second snippet from ANH.. Luke & Leia


@spacebaby45678

Let me add this image back to the visual storytelling, chiastic structure, ring theory, metaphor and symbolism to your post..... TROS is the reverse of ROTS... literally....

I don't know why Reylos on twitter start comparing Reylo to Cal and Trilla, I can't see the point of shipping them, Cal wasn't interested in Trilla and only cared about Cere, not to mention that Vader killed Trilla at the end of the game wrote: