ARCHIVE: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - 6

nonesuch wrote:

Reynak wrote:What worries me is that there's a risk for her character to become just the eyes through which we'll see how everything happens, including Kylo's journey through hell and eventually towards redeption. She wasn't given much character development or a clear trajectory in TFA If she becomes only the POV through which we get to know what happens it will be a terrible waste of a character. She needs her own path and struggles to become a worthy protagonist.

@Reynak

I think Rey had a lot of character development and purpose in TFA, and the sequel trilogy is unquestionably her story, imo. The story of The Force Awakens is the story of Rey progressing from the petrified childhood state that kept her chained to Jakku, blossoming into a hero who can put aside her feelings of loss and abandonment in order to resist evil and fight back for the good of her friends first and the galaxy second. It's a great hero's journey and I fully expect VIII and IX to continue it.

And I'll say that while I love Kylo and think he's a brilliantly acted and nuanced character, I do think people here tend to place all of the emphasis and importance on Kylo's journey at the expense of Rey's. Kylo is absolutely on a journey, but his journey should be secondary (or at most complementary) to Rey's. That TFA is about a female hero is precisely what makes it so exciting and distinctive, and that shouldn't be sacrificed for the sake of shifting all of the emphasis to Kylo.

@nonesuch

But that's what the creators are doing. In interviews, they tend to emphasise the importance of Kylo's backstory and Kylo's "lost boy" quality and Kylo's mysterious motivation, how he believes he's doing the right thing. What do they say about Rey? That she's a great role model, that everybody loves her. That's it, most of the time.

TFA itself built up its biggest mysterious around Kylo. What's the backstory, why is he doing what he's doing, what's his mysterious goal? He's simultaneously the object of the biggest mysteries and the most dynamic character.

I think Rey has a lot of potential, and I especially loved Daisy's acting when she was called upon to be fierce and a bit "dark". But so far, the biggest question mark about her character has been her parentage and how she ended up on Jakku.

I hope Rey gets a truly thrilling journey, but it would have to be a hell of a ride to be more interesting than Kylo's journey back to the light (or Kylo's journey deeper into the darkness, which I don't think will be the case, but still: it would be a parallel journey nonetheless).

I don't think it's always the case that the central character's arc gets overshadowed by somebody more interesting. Luke wasn't the most complex character, to be sure, but there weren't really any rival journeys to overshadow his. Luke wasn't super fascinating, but his journey most definitely was.

And in my case, this isn't a case of liking Kylo more than Rey. I'm drinking tea from a Rey mug right now, I have a huge girl crush on Daisy, and I have lots of headcanons about Rey's past and future and hope even some of them come true. But so far, the creators have clearly put the most effort into creating Kylo.

P.S. Funnily enough, I got my Rey mug from Society6; the illustration is a beautiful painting made by a fan.

Because I couldn't find an official Rey mug anywhere.

Seriously, the lack of Rey merchandise is a disgrace.

vaderito wrote:

nonesuch wrote:

Reynak wrote:What worries me is that there's a risk for her character to become just the eyes through which we'll see how everything happens, including Kylo's journey through hell and eventually towards redeption. She wasn't given much character development or a clear trajectory in TFA If she becomes only the POV through which we get to know what happens it will be a terrible waste of a character. She needs her own path and struggles to become a worthy protagonist.

@Reynak

I think Rey had a lot of character development and purpose in TFA, and the sequel trilogy is unquestionably her story, imo. The story of The Force Awakens is the story of Rey progressing from the petrified childhood state that kept her chained to Jakku, blossoming into a hero who can put aside her feelings of loss and abandonment in order to resist evil and fight back for the good of her friends first and the galaxy second. It's a great hero's journey and I fully expect VIII and IX to continue it.

And I'll say that while I love Kylo and think he's a brilliantly acted and nuanced character, I do think people here tend to place all of the emphasis and importance on Kylo's journey at the expense of Rey's. Kylo is absolutely on a journey, but his journey should be secondary (or at most complementary) to Rey's. That TFA is about a female hero is precisely what makes it so exciting and distinctive, and that shouldn't be sacrificed for the sake of shifting all of the emphasis to Kylo.

@nonesuch

It's her journey and his journey is complimentary but people here find his complimentary journey more exciting and that is true of everyone. Focus on Rey parentage instead of her is because people don't have much to say about her character, so they shift conversation onto who her parent might be (aka a character that actually generates discussion). Don't get me wrong, she's likable and inspirational but that isn't good characterization by any means. They made her into OT Characters Greatest Hits in that she could do everything OT characters were famous for - fly like Han, mind trick like Ob1, Force sensitive like Luke, resilient to torture like Leia, speaks Wookie like Han and OB1, speaks binary like OB1 and later Luke, etc. All those OMG amazing things were never given to one character in OT but spread out onto several. Which is why those characters were relatable. Rey isn't relatable. She's a wish-fulfillment of the highest order. Gets Falcon, gets Luke's saber, Han likes her like a father, leia hugs her like a mother, Luke will train her, Prince Ben falls in love with her, everyone loves her 3 seconds after meeting her and Prince Ben loves her even before meeting her. You can't really have a long and thoughtful discussion about that. She's the main heroine but the most flawed character will always generate most talk.

@vaderito

I would respectfully disagree with that assessment of Rey's character. She isn't perfect. She is vulnerable - physically and emotionally - and that comes through in the film. She is essentially an indentured slave who is starved by her master, growing up on powdered food and being forced to fight and struggle to survive. She is vulnerable to capture, and only gets off Starkiller Base because her friends come to help her. She is dangerously quick to attach herself to others, and is heartbroken at the prospect of being left by a man she has only known for a few hours. All of those things suggest weaknesses and points of vulnerability that you wouldn't find in a character who was pure wish fulfilment. Rey is flawed and scarred by her early experiences, and I fully expect her character development in subsequent films to riff off that.

Darth Dingbat wrote:

nonesuch wrote:

Reynak wrote:What worries me is that there's a risk for her character to become just the eyes through which we'll see how everything happens, including Kylo's journey through hell and eventually towards redeption. She wasn't given much character development or a clear trajectory in TFA If she becomes only the POV through which we get to know what happens it will be a terrible waste of a character. She needs her own path and struggles to become a worthy protagonist.

@Reynak

I think Rey had a lot of character development and purpose in TFA, and the sequel trilogy is unquestionably her story, imo. The story of The Force Awakens is the story of Rey progressing from the petrified childhood state that kept her chained to Jakku, blossoming into a hero who can put aside her feelings of loss and abandonment in order to resist evil and fight back for the good of her friends first and the galaxy second. It's a great hero's journey and I fully expect VIII and IX to continue it.

And I'll say that while I love Kylo and think he's a brilliantly acted and nuanced character, I do think people here tend to place all of the emphasis and importance on Kylo's journey at the expense of Rey's. Kylo is absolutely on a journey, but his journey should be secondary (or at most complementary) to Rey's. That TFA is about a female hero is precisely what makes it so exciting and distinctive, and that shouldn't be sacrificed for the sake of shifting all of the emphasis to Kylo.

@nonesuch

But that's what the creators are doing. In interviews, they tend to emphasise the importance of Kylo's backstory and Kylo's "lost boy" quality and Kylo's mysterious motivation, how he believes he's doing the right thing. What do they say about Rey? That she's a great role model, that everybody loves her. That's it, most of the time.

TFA itself built up its biggest mysterious around Kylo. What's the backstory, why is he doing what he's doing, what's his mysterious goal? He's simultaneously the object of the biggest mysteries and the most dynamic character.

I think Rey has a lot of potential, and I especially loved Daisy's acting when she was called upon to be fierce and a bit "dark". But so far, the biggest question mark about her character has been her parentage and how she ended up on Jakku.

I hope Rey gets a truly thrilling journey, but it would have to be a hell of a ride to be more interesting than Kylo's journey back to the light (or Kylo's journey deeper into the darkness, which I don't think will be the case, but still: it would be a parallel journey nonetheless).

I don't think it's always the case that the central character's arc gets overshadowed by somebody more interesting. Luke wasn't the most complex character, to be sure, but there weren't really any rival journeys to overshadow his. Luke wasn't super fascinating, but his journey most definitely was.

And in my case, this isn't a case of liking Kylo more than Rey. I'm drinking tea from a Rey mug right now, I have a huge girl crush on Daisy, and I have lots of headcanons about Rey's past and future and hope even some of them come true. But so far, the creators have clearly put the most effort into creating Kylo.

@Darth Dingbat

I think equal effort went into creating both Rey and Kylo, the central differences being that:

1. Kylo is 10 years older, so has had more time to accumulate experiences and backstory to intrigue us with. He is not at the beginning of his journey as Rey is hers, since he took his proverbial "first steps" a long time ago.
2. Kylo is a legacy character and TFA filled us in on certain tantalising aspects of his backstory. It couldn't do this for Rey because those reveals are still to come in subsequent films.

Rey is, of course, much more of a blank slate than Kylo. She is innocent and seemingly blameless, and that means she would appear to lack Kylo's moral complexity. At the same time, however, I think her very innocence is going to be what makes her future development so interesting to watch unfold. If she is tempted by the dark side or discovers something terrible about her origins, how will that affect her? Will she change, or will her moral core remain intact?

Rey and Kylo are both equally fascinating, imo, it's just that Kylo is - inevitably - further along his trajectory than Rey is. And while I love both characters, I'm probably more excited to see what they do with Rey in VIII, since I think there is incredible potential for drastic and thrilling developments there.

nonesuch wrote:  

I would respectfully disagree with that assessment of Rey's character. She isn't perfect. She is vulnerable - physically and emotionally - and that comes through in the film. She is essentially an indentured slave who is starved by her master, growing up on powdered food and being forced to fight and struggle to survive. She is vulnerable to capture, and only gets off Starkiller Base because her friends come to help her. She is dangerously quick to attach herself to others, and is heartbroken at the prospect of being left by a man she has only known for a few hours. All of those things suggest weaknesses and points of vulnerability that you wouldn't find in a character who was pure wish fulfilment. Rey is flawed and scarred by her early experiences, and I fully expect her character development in subsequent films to riff off that.

That all stands but is, IMO, overshadowed by wish-fulfillment elements and her completely baffling optimism in the wake of abandonment. That's some truly unrealistic and insincere characterization that sacrifices personality for instant likability. they did the same thing with Finn's Storm Trooper In Name Only.

Also, based on how heroines are protected from embarrassment, silliness, real injuries, etc in action movies with a female lead, I expect the trend to continue. Rey won't fall on her butt or faceplant into mud unlike male heroes.