ARCHIVE: Rey and Kylo - Beauty and the Beast, Scavenger and the Monstah, Their Bond, His Love, Her Confused Feelings - 14

I think the tables might be quite turned in TLJ.

Kylo will be more in denial than ever as he tries to suppress his feelings. It could be Rey who, after learning more about his past and their mysterious connection, tries to reach out and possibly initiates the beginnings of a romance. Especially if she can sense he has an interest in her.

The most forward way to express this on-screen is by a kiss. Their first kiss might come seemingly out of nowhere, but it would make more sense if it followed a generous build-up of tension, and obvious if hesitant signs of attraction from both sides.

If they are meant to go from enemies to lovers, then working together as reluctant allies in a confined space would certainly hasten that

motherofpearl1 wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:@SkyStar
Antis will say this or that no matter what happens. Don't forget that they already say Kylo r*ped her (yes, literally r*ped). Small things are absolutely going to be blown out of proportion, as they always are. When the story comes out (VIII and IX) it'll be a start to finish kind of deal so any small criticisms of particular scenes will be largely irrelevant. I see no problem with Kylo trying to kiss her in a spur-of-the-moment scene and Rey backing off. There's nothing offensive or inappropriate about that, IMO. Just more evidence that Kylo needs to change fundamentally as a person and absolutely cannot "take whatever he wants" from others.

@FrolickingFizzgig

I actually find it sad that Kylo is seen as an 'abuser' when he was the one abused. I've seen a lot of fanfic where Rey is seen as an abuse victim,but although she's clearly a victim of child abandonment she hasn't been abused. The real victim is, and always has been, Kylo.

@motherofpearl1

You know all these accusations about Kylo abusing Rey never made sense to me because first of all they're not in a relationship at this point they're strangers on opposite sides of a war.Yes,they share this strange connection but at this point neither of them are willing to admit that especially Kylo.''But,but ... killed Han and hurt Finn who are Rey's family!''.Frankly I'm not sure the antis get the point of redemeption.Kylo's a very messed up individual right now and if he didn't do anything villanious there wouldn't be a need for redemption and character development.I just don't udnerstand these people and their logic and believe me I tried to but all I see is them bullying people and accuisng them of supproting incest and abuse while Reylos write tons of metas analyzing Reylo as a potneitual couple and as individual characters.
''But it's not Rey's job to redeem Kylo!She hates him! ''-neither was Luke's job to redeem Vader who he also hated at the beggining but see it's not about being someone's job it's about choosing to do help someone you love find the right path.That's what Luke chose to do and if that's what Rey decides as well why should you judge her especially when I don't see anyone criticizing Luke for risking his life to save his father's soul.If Rey showed compassion and love towards Kylo it would only serve as a proof of what a good person she is because it takes a lot of strength and dignity to love someone you've witnessed commting a horrific crime,quite literally seeing him at the lowest and most horrfic point of his life and still forgive and care for him.
Sorry for the mini rant,I just had to vent a little.

Kylo is no angel -- he is scary, he stalks her through a forest, he paralyzes her with the Force and he reads her mind -- but he is not an abuser or a r*pist. It's absurd to use these words to describe him.

Despite being arrogant/cocky and all "I can take whatever I want" around her, his motivations were never sexual (r*pe is violence perpetrated by sexual motivations). They were also never friends/lovers/companions, so the abuse discourse is bullsh*t as well. Rey never trusted him, they had no history together, they were strangers and war enemies, and that's all.

People on the internet are ridiculous and it's insulting to use abuse and r*pe with such levity.

People are overly protective of Rey. They see a young woman who is much smaller than Kylo, and in their minds he's abusing her. It doesn't matter to them that she fired on him with a blaster multiple times and he defended himself by using the Force.

Then there's the reaction to the possibility that Kylo might've given her that small bruise/scrape on her forehead. If that is the height of villainy right there, well then, what do you call what she did to HIS face? He was unarmed when she slashed his face and shoulder nearly to the bone.

Funny how it's Reylos and not antis who think Rey can handle herself against Kylo:

Piper Maru wrote:Kylo is no angel -- he is scary, he stalks her through a forest, he paralyzes her with the Force and he reads her mind -- but he is not an abuser or a r*pist. It's absurd to use these words to describe him.

Despite being arrogant/cocky and all "I can take whatever I want" around her, his motivations were never sexual (r*pe is violence perpetrated by sexual motivations). They were also never friends/lovers/companions, so the abuse discourse is bullsh*t as well. Rey never trusted him, they had no history together, they were strangers and war enemies, and that's all.

People on the internet are ridiculous and it's insulting to use abuse and r*pe with such levity.

@Piper Maru

Yep. He was never beholden to her from any previously forged alliance or relationship they had; they're in a war-time setting, and he had a mission, but to his credit he got sidetracked and infatuated with her, and other than Force pushing her into the tree when she was about to shoot him, he didn't hurt her and treated her quite well compared to Poe in the interrogation.

I do think a kiss is coming in VIII, and here's why: the island is a romantic, beautiful setting. You've got the proverbial old wise man, and the young, star-crossed lovers. It's a typical archetype. Kylo knows more about her than anyone in her life, and she's going to gravitate to that despite how much she might despise him for killing Han. I also don't believe everything that happened in TFA can be taken at face value; there's more at work with the plot than we know. Plus there's passion between them in spades, and as a writer or director you don't waste that kind of intensity. I agree it'll be spur of the moment, and I do think Rey will act first. But my money is on a kiss in VIII. It's gonna happen.

motherofpearl1 wrote:Oh, I hope we have a kiss - we deserve it after three movies!

@motherofpearl1

Kiss or sex as some said is a bit too much(certainly sex scene) but who knows kiss is as far is it can go in these movies. Eve,n if Rey goes from hatred to affection it's a huge step for her and their relationship, and I'd be satitsfied, Don't need kiss to seal the deal, just that it will be clear how they feel. That's what I want and if there is a kiss, it doesn't matter. They might leave it ambiguous to fans.

WhatGirl wrote:I think the tables might be quite turned in TLJ.

Kylo will be more in denial than ever as he tries to suppress his feelings. It could be Rey who, after learning more about his past and their mysterious connection, tries to reach out and possibly initiates the beginnings of a romance. Especially if she can sense he has an interest in her.

The most forward way to express this on-screen is by a kiss. Their first kiss might come seemingly out of nowhere, but it would make more sense if it followed a generous build-up of tension, and obvious if hesitant signs of attraction from both sides.

If they are meant to go from enemies to lovers, then working together as reluctant allies in a confined space would certainly hasten that

@WhatGirl

I'm with you on all of this. Plus, isn't part of yin-yang (which I'll admit that I'm not an expert on) that they trade off on who is the one doing the chasing? i.e. Yin chases Yang then Yang chases Yin? So, it would kind of make sense that in VIII, Rey is the "pursuer".

Now, I don't mean this will start out as a romantic pursuit. We've heard that something (from MSW) makes Rey not want to kill Kylo, so I think we've got at least the start of compassion there. Plus the whole "Rey is very forgiving" thing from Carrie.

So, while I expect Kylo to turn up all guns-ablazing over his defeat/humiliation/denial/whatever-Snoke-does-to-him, I expect Rey to have probably spent some time reflecting on what happened in their previous fight, and through a vision or whatever, have developed some sympathy (at the very least) for Kylo from having learned about his fall.

DarthRen wrote:

motherofpearl1 wrote:Oh, I hope we have a kiss - we deserve it after three movies!

@motherofpearl1

Kiss or sex as some said is a bit too much(certainly sex scene) but who knows kiss is as far is it can go in these movies. Eve,n if Rey goes from hatred to affection it's a huge step for her and their relationship, and I'd be satitsfied, Don't need kiss to seal the deal, just that it will be clear how they feel. That's what I want and if there is a kiss, it doesn't matter. They might leave it ambiguous to fans.

@DarthRen

That's why I'd be content if they touched their foreheads. I want a kiss, but I'm not holding my breath for it. I think their dynamic is already very physically charged and intense, and if/when they find their common ground, maybe a more subtle demonstration of love will be enough.

I just need to know how they feel about each other. It needs to be explicit, and they need to talk about it.

I think there must be a kiss. It's officially becomes canon and it removes all doubt of their feelings (must be mutual) towards each other, depending how it progresses in TLJ and IX. Otherwise, it starts the endless arguments of "it's only implied, not confirmed, or doesn't prove anything," and it becomes a broken record. I've seen this happen to ship wars on other shows, video games etc. It's just tiring and frustrating trying to argue and prove this point again and again when it's only implied and not canon. Of course, that won't stop the antis screaming anyway.

As for the abuse, if the interrogation scene between Rey and Kylo is considered "abuse", then what do you consider the one with Poe? I thought Kylo was going to give Poe a Force lobotomy.

That's my two cents.

Cheers

Pyro Nebula wrote:I think there must be a kiss. It's officially canon and it removes all doubt of their feelings (must be mutual) towards each other, depending how it progressed in TLJ and IX. Otherwise, it starts the endless arguments of "it's only implied, not confirmed, or doesn't prove anything," and it becomes a broken record. I've seen this happen to ship wars on other shows, video games etc. It's just tiring and frustrating trying to argue and prove this point again and again when it's only implied and not canon. Of course, that won't stop the antis screaming anyway.

As for the abuse, if the interrogation scene between Rey and Kylo is considered "abuse", then what do you consider the one with Poe? I thought Kylo was going to give Poe a Force lobotomy.

That's my two cents.

Cheers

@Pyro Nebula

This I agree with. I want the kiss, but I would be fine without it if the script made it clear that they like each other. Kylo confessing his feelings and Rey accepting them would be a dream coming true for me, since I really try to tone down my expectations to avoid any future frustration.

Pyro Nebula wrote:I think there must be a kiss. It's officially canon and it removes all doubt of their feelings (must be mutual) towards each other, depending how it progressed in TLJ and IX. Otherwise, it starts the endless arguments of "it's only implied, not confirmed, or doesn't prove anything," and it becomes a broken record. I've seen this happen to ship wars on other shows, video games etc. It's just tiring and frustrating trying to argue and prove this point again and again when it's only implied and not canon. Of course, that won't stop the antis screaming anyway.

As for the abuse, if the interrogation scene between Rey and Kylo is considered "abuse", then what do you consider the one with Poe? I thought Kylo was going to give Poe a Force lobotomy.

That's my two cents.

Cheers

@Pyro Nebula

Right. I mean, most reasonable people (that I've talked to/read comments from on the internet) came away from Rogue One seeing Jyn-Cassian as a "great potential romance that never was". I thought that couldn't have been more explicitly stated than the way they held each other on the beach.

But then you've got some people who are absolutely insistent that there was no romance whatsoever in Rogue One, and that Jyn and Cassian were just "coworkers".

I can't see Disney going down that exact same road again. We already got our understated romance in RO, IMO.

If Rey and Kylo's relationship is meant to be mutually romantic, I totally expect a kiss, even if it's in the epilogue at the end of Episode IX or something.

Otherwise we're in Jyn/Cassian limbo where it's, "they totally had feelings for each other" "pffft people read too much into it". Fine for R1 since romance played no importance in the story, but that's not the case with the ST.

Piper Maru wrote:

Pyro Nebula wrote:I think there must be a kiss. It's officially canon and it removes all doubt of their feelings (must be mutual) towards each other, depending how it progressed in TLJ and IX. Otherwise, it starts the endless arguments of "it's only implied, not confirmed, or doesn't prove anything," and it becomes a broken record. I've seen this happen to ship wars on other shows, video games etc. It's just tiring and frustrating trying to argue and prove this point again and again when it's only implied and not canon. Of course, that won't stop the antis screaming anyway.

As for the abuse, if the interrogation scene between Rey and Kylo is considered "abuse", then what do you consider the one with Poe? I thought Kylo was going to give Poe a Force lobotomy.

That's my two cents.

Cheers

@Pyro Nebula

This I agree with. I want the kiss, but I would be fine without it if the script made it clear that they like each other. Kylo confessing his feelings and Rey accepting them would be a dream coming true for me, since I really try to tone down my expectations to avoid any future frustration.

@Piper Maru

Nothing wrong with mutual confessions of love, but a kiss on the screen is still a kiss. If it happens, for those who don't like that, well "build a bridge and get over it", it's officially canon.

Darth_Awakened wrote:

snufkin wrote:Speaking of irrational PT haters transferring that hate to the ST, this writer really really hates the idea

@snufkin

It seems that this guy thinks of himself as some anti-Reylo crusade hero.
How sad.
Probably just a person in need of some extra attention.

http://culturess.com/2017/02/14/star-wars-rey-kylo-ren-connection/

@Darth_Awakened

Ha yes, especially this statement:

But reading too much into her connection to Kylo Ren would be an awful move. It would be like reverting us back to 2002 so we can all relive the moment The Boy Who Hated Sand married The Woman Who Secured Peace For Naboo and sacrificed her independence to be chased by a galactic tiger, a scorpion, and a rhino.

...which sort of ties back to the convo a couple days back (think it was @FrolickingFizzgig who brought it up), there's a % of people who get up in arms about this topic because it has to do with how crappy the execution was w/Padme. Or how GL created a character with a lot of potential and then totally squandered it. I can snark that she comes off like Diane Court in Say Anything. It's another bait and switch of "hey we're going to create this awesome female character who's a feminist and hero. But then turn her into the bad guy's tragic girlfriend and subsequent hero's dead mom." It's a twofer of some of the worst tropes for female characters. So when people suspect that's the direction these two characters are headed, they get up in arms because of all the frustration/anger over what happened with that character. As Carrie Fisher had said multiple times, one of the problems with the franchise simply is the lack of #s for female characters. So when one does turn up, and as the central protagonist, the expectations go through roof. But it overlooks that it's a different creative team, one that's more female, there are more female characters, and setting aside the DNA arguments, Rey's role in that relationship is that both the Obi-Wan and Padme. There's certainly the great risk of having something like that happen with the standard Hollywood blockbust. But to date, I haven't personally got the impression that's what's going to happen with Rey.

The site itself has a mission statement of being feminist, but the argument itself doesn't really go beyond "this previous character got undercut, so therefore I object to this potential based on the past. Irrelevant of what may be different in this situation." It also seems like a pretty classic example of performing activism. Also the piece? Not even very well written or argued, just "I don't like this."

Also kiss or no kiss, I think we're guaranteed a moment when Ben is going to get decked by Finn, in part because of what happened before and other their very different emotional ties with Rey.

snufkin wrote:Also kiss or no kiss, I think we're guaranteed a moment when Ben is going to get decked by Finn, in part because of what happened before and other their very different emotional ties with Rey.

@snufkin

I confess I'm looking forward to the next confrontation between Finn and Kylo.

Finn has more than enough reasons to hate Kylo. When he realizes that Kylo and Rey share a bond, he will be very conflicted.

Piper Maru wrote:

snufkin wrote:Also kiss or no kiss, I think we're guaranteed a moment when Ben is going to get decked by Finn, in part because of what happened before and other their very different emotional ties with Rey.

@snufkin

I confess I'm looking forward to the next confrontation between Finn and Kylo.

Finn has more than enough reasons to hate Kylo. When he realizes that Kylo and Rey share a bond, he will be very conflicted.

@Piper Maru

I think that #1 reason of her feeling conflicted towards Ben (and working with him) will be because of Finn. Who is now the family she always wanted. It's a love triangle, but not in the tradional sense - one man offers familal/sibling love and the other offers romantic/sexual. And when thow two men meet again, I expect that their power positions will be reversed. Finn will absolutely become a big deal in the new galactic order.

Comparing Rey to Padme is sort of disingenuous anyways. Rey is the protagonist and has already displayed dominance over Kylo Ren physically, mentally, and emotionally, which automatically changes the dynamic to the point where it's really hard to compare the two. If anyone would be "giving up" or "sacrificing" independence or anything else for Reylo, it would be Kylo. The romance would involve him giving up his current path and confronting his mistakes.

Piper Maru wrote:

DarthRen wrote:

motherofpearl1 wrote:Oh, I hope we have a kiss - we deserve it after three movies!

@motherofpearl1

Kiss or sex as some said is a bit too much(certainly sex scene) but who knows kiss is as far is it can go in these movies. Eve,n if Rey goes from hatred to affection it's a huge step for her and their relationship, and I'd be satitsfied, Don't need kiss to seal the deal, just that it will be clear how they feel. That's what I want and if there is a kiss, it doesn't matter. They might leave it ambiguous to fans.

@DarthRen

That's why I'd be content if they touched their foreheads. I want a kiss, but I'm not holding my breath for it. I think their dynamic is already very physically charged and intense, and if/when they find their common ground, maybe a more subtle demonstration of love will be enough.

I just need to know how they feel about each other. It needs to be explicit, and they need to talk about it.

@Piper Maru

Yeah, their relationship needs to be defined. It doesn't have to be a kiss (I wouldn't mind it) but they need to show us clearly if they do love each other somehow in some way. I don't want it to be left vague, it needs to be shown either by kiss on her lips, forehead or some other gesture. There are ways to show love between two individuals in many ways they way they look at each other, touch each other and other gestures.

snufkin wrote:Also kiss or no kiss, I think we're guaranteed a moment when Ben is going to get decked by Finn, in part because of what happened before and other their very different emotional ties with Rey.

@snufkin

That would happen only if Kylo would let him kick his a**. so to speak. He toyed with Finn on Star Killer Base. Otherwise he would kill him but given Kylo might be changing thanks to Rey and his feelings for her, showing his good side. Finn might take a swing at him for previous encounter only to see Rey's reaction being different. Talk about awkward moment.

@DarthRen - Oh Finn's for sure kicking his a** sometime in the future. And forget all the theories about Luke being her dad. The family she'll have in the ST is Finn became her protective older brother. Who has bad blood with the guy who's trying to woo her, and that will come to a head. Who knows, Finn may even end up on the ground with the two of them when the final confrontation with Snoke happens.

I want to see Finn deck Kylo so bad, lmao. They have a really interesting dynamic as well and I'm excited to see it evolve in the ST.

Does anyone else want to see Finn and Kylo begrudgingly become friends/work together? XD of course I'd love to see Finn deck Kylo first, but, it would be cool if they became frenemies or something eventually maybe in episode IX or beyond that.

And I don't. After what Kylo's gone through even before he was born, he needs a break. Enough pretending that everyone had it worse than he.

ZioRen wrote:Comparing Rey to Padme is sort of disingenuous anyways. Rey is the protagonist and has already displayed dominance over Kylo Ren physically, mentally, and emotionally, which automatically changes the dynamic to the point where it's really hard to compare the two. If anyone would be "giving up" or "sacrificing" independence or anything else for Reylo, it would be Kylo. The romance would involve him giving up his current path and confronting his mistakes.

@ZioRen

Agreed. I find a lot of this argument to not even be about Rey, but simply a pretext to revisit the faults of the PT and complain about them. It's in the past and the ST is clearly taking pains to not make the same mistakes.