ARCHIVE: Discussion: Tweets/Instagram - 4

BenRey wrote:

Irina de France wrote:Honestly, I think a couple with a black guy and an Asian girl is waaay more progressive than a couple with a black guy and a white girl? I don't know, I don't recall seeing an Asian/black couple anywhere.

@Irina de France

Romeo Must Die is all I can think of

@BenRey

Good movie - I forgot all about that one.

In short, no blockbusters that target billion of people worldwide. Until FinnTran.

Annnnnd we have Pablo's answer on the lightsaber hilt from the trailer.

Sorry for the DP, but I also wanted to post this gem:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:Sorry for the DP, but I also wanted to post this gem:

@ISeeAnIsland

I'm not sure what "to Kylo's liking" even is, so I find this answer a little weird. It's not as if he ever does the villain monologue where he reveals it. His motivations other than "finish what Vader started and be powerful I guess" are still a mystery.

Basically I'm not sure what to make of this answer. Sounds like more of a joke but honestly everything Pablo says about Kylo puts me on edge for some reason haha.

@ISeeAnIsland
Pretty much what most of us said. Nothing new or of consequence, but it's great that he answered anyway. I think what this scene was originally intended to be changed a great deal over production. Some idea or another was abandoned or deemed unnecessary for the final cut of the film, and I don't think it has anything to do with it being too "spoilery". There is a lot of confusion about the Forceback because of how much it changed. From pieces of Kylo's backstory to Maz stealing the saber, so much was considered and ultimately omitted. There is a great deal of confusion in particular surrounding the bit with the KoR in the rain and Kylo stabbing the "Clan Leader". It's possible it was once something entirely different (in the past), but was salvaged by Rian.

Also LOL! "Not a Suggestion Box."

@ZioRen
It's definitely a joke lol. Rey is the "new age fan", Kylo is the "OT fanboy". But the new age fan can help show the OT fanboy the error of his ways.

I know it's a joke but I really really love that idea of Kylo representing old fans. The criticism he's got for being a 'weak villain' mirrors how he sees himself and his obsession with Vader is fanboy central. Ain't no way his views will be the same by the end of the trilogy because Kylo 'learning his lesson' is also a way to teach the audience about compassion, forgiveness, etc.

BastilaBey wrote:I know it's a joke but I really really love that idea of Kylo representing old fans. The criticism he's got for being a 'weak villain' mirrors how he sees himself and his obsession with Vader is fanboy central. Ain't no way his views will be the same by the end of the trilogy because Kylo 'learning his lesson' is also a way to teach the audience about compassion, forgiveness, etc.

@BastilaBey
Right!? It's actually got some depth to it, an apt comparison they just have to see through to the end! It would be the ultimate poetic bite in the a** to have the OT fanboy representative develop, grow up, accept that rage/tantrums won't get him his way and realize that change isn't so bad! And it's an amazing lesson too. An amusing little in-joke that people will be able to laugh about for years to come! No wonder Pablo would say he's the perfect villain for our present day, a play on entitlement as embodied by the OT fanboy. It speaks about the Disney buyout and "fanxiety" and Kylo's hilarious in-hindsight, but also very sad, desire to be everything grandpa Vader was and more.

actually, most new age fans that I've encountered are worse than the OT fanboys   ...its the new age fans that take to twitter and Tumblr to complain and campaign about stuff. Its typical of the younger generation to throw tantrums when stuff doesn't go their way...at least OT fanboys genuinely love Star Wars for what they believe it is:)

Mana wrote:actually, most new age fans that I've encountered are worse than the OT fanboys   ...its the new age fans that take to twitter and Tumblr to complain and campaign about stuff. Its typical of the younger generation to throw tantrums when stuff doesn't go their way...

@Mana
Lucasfilm can't tackle all the specifics of Tumblr with villain metaphors. The idea probably existed before TFA was even released (long, long before). And I would consider myself a new-age fan, along with lots of enthusiastic, happy people looking forward to all the new developments of the trilogy. We're not talking about every new age fan, just as we're not talking about every OT fan. Many people here have followed SW since the years of the OT. There are extremists everywhere, and that's what Kylo is. An extremist OT fanboy, and I think we know first-hand how stuck in their ways some of them are. xD

Mana wrote:actually, most new age fans that I've encountered are worse than the OT fanboys   ...its the new age fans that take to twitter and Tumblr to complain and campaign about stuff. Its typical of the younger generation to throw tantrums when stuff doesn't go their way...at least OT fanboys genuinely love Star Wars for what they believe it is:)

@Mana

Thank you Mana!
At least, speaking of myself (I am OT fanboy) and I sort of tend to be over protective on irrational level of it. Especially when somebody says something against OT.
I do get fanboys to some extent (yes they genuinely love Star Wars), and when they have troubles to accept some obvious facts from TFA (Rey Skywalker theory - is a typical fanboy theory which prevails) most of them act pretty much in civil way, although they can be pretty stubborn.
There is no silly shipping wars between fanboys, very little of social justice crusaders.
Of course I have nothing against Tumblr or similar social networks - as long as it is civil and tolerant.

But come on, Pablo clearly qualifies his statement by saying it's fans who specifically want the galaxy on their terms, not every fan of the OT. LF are coming to this from the perspective of their hard work on the prequels being so heavily criticized. So what did they do with TFA? Tried to please everyone with an extended homage to ANH and elements of ESB to get established fans comfortable, even as they carefully wove in brand new elements of the story *cough* Rey and Kylo's dynamic *cough*. And guess what? It was then criticized for being too much of a rehash.

There's just no pleasing some people, even Mark Hamill said that at his celebration panel. You see it constantly in some corners of the online fandom, people only seem to be there to complain about the story, before it's even been told - because it's not exactly what they wanted. They wanted bad*** new Vader (even though the prequels already showed us that Vader as a 'bad***' was an illusion, he was a sad and frightened man who wanted to save his wife), they wanted a perfect new Skywalker to defeat the bad guy, and they wanted Luke to somehow have a lead role again. That's not what they got and many feel entitled to it. They should get working on their Reywalker fanfic.

I was mostly referring to overall behaviour at the internet today, not at all at Pablo s tweets.
It was more about "how" and less about "what" somebody wants.

I am really more sympathetic towards somebody wanting a bad*** Vader 2.0 or Rey being Luke s daughter if he is civil in presntation of his whishes just for the sake of "good old times" Redacted

ISeeAnIsland wrote:Sorry for the DP, but I also wanted to post this gem:

@ISeeAnIsland

Very interesting. Especially since Pablo emphasizes on "his, and only his"... well, I guess he isn't as much of a lapdog than he seemed in VII. No wonder he tried to recruit Rey for #teamkylo.

Pablo has grudge against old trilogy fanboys but I find these 12 years old tumblr antis much worse. They want to kill billions of people with boredom in the name of social justice activism. Screw that.

Okay, sometimes it is just that simple?

@EchoBase
It looks too simple to me - but who knows - maybe it is.

I always thought it is related to Vader s words about bringing ORDER to the Galaxy.

EDIT: To figure (out) means he undertood it at such? Or he just knows.
(I am nitpicking now)

EchoBase wrote:Okay, sometimes it is just that simple?

@EchoBase

Or not? "I figured it was killing Jedi" is one of those Pablo-ish answers like "the script says..." I assume he knows the whole story and doesn't have to "figure" anything.

Killing the Jedi wasn't even Vader's own plan, but Palpatine's.

Meh. We'll see. Such pointless ambiguity, though, if Kylo's goal turns out to be just "kill everybody" without any real purpose, and "I will finish what you started" doesn't really refer to any concrete plan. I mean, even my pet hate "I will rule the galaxy" would be a more interesting plan than "kill all the Jedi".

@Darth Dingbat

I agree - killing Jedi was not Vader s plan at all - he was just a Palp s puppet in the execution of it.
It depends , though, what Snoke presented to Kylo as a Vader s plan.

Darth Dingbat wrote:

EchoBase wrote:Okay, sometimes it is just that simple?

@EchoBase

Or not? "I figured it was killing Jedi" is one of those Pablo-ish answers like "the script says..." I assume he knows the whole story and doesn't have to "figure" anything.

Killing the Jedi wasn't even Vader's own plan, but Palpatine's.

Meh. We'll see. Such pointless ambiguity, though, if Kylo's goal turns out to be just "kill everybody" without any real purpose, and "I will finish what you started" doesn't really refer to any concrete plan. I mean, even my pet hate "I will rule the galaxy" would be a more interesting plan than "kill all the Jedi".

@Darth Dingbat

Yes, "I figured" sounds pretty noncommittal. But yeah, "killing Jedi" was not exactly Vader's mission, at least not initially...That was all Palpatine and the Sith. I thought Snoke and Kylo were not supposed to be Sith, so it would be odd if the story is they have the exact same goal as the Sith. I don't know about that..

As much as Anakin resented the Jedi council, I never saw him as personally wanting revenge on them. Killing them was on Palpatine's orders and a means to an end. His initial goal in embracing the dark side was actually to stop his loved ones from dying and then ruling the Galaxy (making it the way he thought it should be). And of course, his actual destined purpose/mission was to bring balance to the Force.

I'm not saying I expect Kylo's mission to be overly elaborate, but I think it will be more than, "killing Jedi." There's got to be a reason behind it other than just killing Jedi because Vader was killing Jedi.

That would be disappointing indeed if it was that simple. That scene is an important one, the first one where you see Kylo's struggle. Hard to imagine it does not have some bigger ramification to go running to Grandpa's helmet and vow to finish what he started.

I always thought about bringing order to the Galaxy too and maybe something we don't know about yet and that has a bigger impact.

But who knows indeed. I agree that Pablo's answer is not really telling much actually. Just voicing an opinion on a specific sentence. I suppose that keeping track of dialog is not part of his job. The overarching Vader plan as Kylo sees it, if there is one, might have different layers and killing the jedi is one layer. One way to see it.

Or indeed Snoke told Kylo Jedis are a plague that bring everything out of balance and need to be eradicated. I keep thinking that the Force is maybe considered as a curse by Kylo.

SanghaRen wrote:That would be disappointing indeed if it was that simple. That scene is an important one, the first one where you see Kylo's struggle. Hard to imagine it does not have some bigger ramification to go running to Grandpa's helmet and vow to finish what he started.

@SanghaRen

Exactly. It could be that the line doesn't really mean anything in context, other than that it will make sense afterwards - as in, "oooohh, now I get it, he did finish what Vader started by finally bringing balance to the Force" or whatever. But I mean... that would be pretty dumb if such a significant scene is just Kylo angsting over a goal that doesn't mean anything much in the end, and if the line is there just because it was a "cool" introduction to Vader's helmet.

The goal can be good, bad, misguided, whatever - I just hope there is a well-plotted goal there, and that not all the symbolism (like the infamous bucket of ashes) is there just because it "looks cool"...

I keep thinking that the Force is maybe considered as a curse by Kylo.

I've wondered about the same thing. It would actually explain Kylo's religiously tinged fanaticism if he considered the Force a source of evil. Perhaps the ultimate goal is to eradicate the Force itself, along with Force-sensitives who might use it to evil ends. Including himself, maybe. Indeed, I wondered if something like this might be the goal Snoke has sold to him: the Force must be destroyed at all costs, it has caused nothing but evil and destruction for thousands of years, and you alone, as the perfect focal point of light and dark, can do it... But I doubt that would be Snoke's real goal, of course; he would be using Kylo's power and fanatical belief to his own ends.

But then, Kylo doesn't seem too keen on eradicating Rey, and in fact insists upon teaching her the ways of the Force, so...

@Darth Dingbat

You killed my curse theory with your Kylo-not-killing-Rey argument

Or... He was just fascinated by the bubbling force in her. I saw a movie about a group of moose breeders that had a foe with wolves - obviously since wolves feed on moose. Any wolf crossing their paths was a dead one. But a young guy saw one day pups and could not bring himself to kill them. He then tried to teach them to not hunt and kill moose.

Rey is still a force pup. Kylo could have thought that if he teaches her, she would not turn into these Jedis who destroyed it all.

Maybe it's a bit far-fetched.

SanghaRen wrote:@Darth Dingbat

You killed my curse theory with your Kylo-not-killing-Rey argument

Or... He was just fascinated by the bubbling force in her. I saw a movie about a group of moose breeders that had a foe with wolves - obviously since wolves feed on moose. Any wolf crossing their paths was a dead one. But a young guy saw one day pups and could not bring himself to kill them. He then tried to teach them to not hunt and kill moose.

Rey is still a force pup. Kylo could have thought that if he teaches her, she would not turn into these Jedis who destroyed it all.

Maybe it's a bit far-fetched.

@SanghaRen

Fascinated yes, and maybe he wasn't thinking straight Perhaps destroying the Force and the Jedi and all that was the goal before he met The Girl. And after Han's death and the "it is you" moment he was shaken out of those fanatical beliefs and thought, "Killing my father didn't even work as expected, perhaps it was all a lie! I don't want to die anymore! Goals, what goals? Look at this magnificent and powerful girl! Wait, magnificent girl, don't go! I can teach you! I know how to stop blaster bolts! I know lots of things! I can show you all kinds of wonders, such as floating pears! We can run away and forget about all this unpleasantness and just enjoy life for a change! The last time I had fun was at the age of fifteen when I went to a theme park with my mother! Will you come to a theme park with me? We can take all the rides and eat so much candy floss we'll throw up in the rollercoaster! It will be splendid!"

@Darth Dingbat "I can show you all kinds of wonders, such as floating pears!" 

I still think he's seen her (obscured in some way) before in a dream or vision, and I have to wonder if he saw them ruling the galaxy as Renperor and Reyempress. Like, it's totally cool, they can eradicate the Jedi together. All other Force sensitives must go, but she's The Awakening so she's different.

Which of course we know the Force has pretty much the opposite plan, but you can imagine what must have been going on in Kylo's head. Pears and all.