Rey's Vision

Darth Dementor wrote:

snufkin wrote:Excellent point, if Finn were meant to continue being a player in her character arc, he would've shown up in the vision. He triggers it by deciding to get the Hell out of Dodge so that she feels abandoned, but otherwise he's not in her vision at all. Versus somebody else, where it seems to be the Force with a big flashing billboard about how "this is somebody you need to look out for." Funny thing, when I saw TFA for the first time, the vision in Maz's creepy break room is where I was like "huh, so she's being set up as having a separate path doing the Force thing and facing the Darkside." It seemed pretty clear that was the point where she and Finn's paths in the trilogy were going to diverge, into the separate Destinies mentioned above. Definitely clear with her talking to him in the ICU before leaving - both that he's her friend and that when she'll see him again is likely but unknown (would bet on them being apart in VIII and not reuniting again until both have gone through significant growth/change).

@snufkin

Precisely. How anyone can interpret the line "we shall se each other again, MY FRIEND" as anything other than they will spend significant time apart is beyond me?

If a Rey & Finn romance was in the cards there would have been more clear, concise signs leaving no doubt they were meant to be together. Most epic romances don't start with the pair meeting then separating for an entire movie, growing into different people along the way, then meet again like nothings happened. At the very least Finn would had been concious and one, if not both, would have declared they're love for the other.

@Darth Dementor

Some very powerful love stories have people who already deeply love each other (and usually have loved each other for a long time) separated by adverse circumstances, not knowing if they'll ever be able to meet again. The "romance" is then about rooting for them to be reunited one day. Orpheus and Eurydice are a pretty good archetype of this kind. Heck, ESB obviously does it too. The couple are already in love (or at least one side of the couple is, if the story focuses on one character's journey), and then they get separated, which heightens their feelings and their - as well as the audience's - determination to see them reunite.

But Finn and Rey aren't even in the "developing romance" stage. They haven't declared their feelings, they haven't shared a tentative and confusing kiss, they haven't even exchanged meaningful glances that linger a bit too long. The relationship has yet to be flagged as anything other than pure friendship. And they're already separated. The FinnRey "romance" never even got the chance to take off. In fiction, absence can't make the heart grow fonder in the romantic sense if things haven't been set up as a romance to begin with.

On top of that, they're not separated by the force of adverse circumstances. Rey may go on an important mission that she "needs" to go on, but the ending of TFA emphasises its nature as an adventure. The music, Rey's reaction to the new world opening up before her eyes, etc... it all paints this as the beginning of an amazing adventure of discovery and self-discovery.

An amazing adventure without that guy who was left behind on life support. Please, somebody tell me in which alternate universe this is a fine beginning to an epic romance.

@Darth Dingbat

True Dat.  Rey is taking the first steps in the most important journey of her life and Finn is nowhere to be seen in it.  Mainly because he has no place to fit in, where she's going due to not being Force sensitive and because he will start his own journey, which Rey doesn't fit into, in the slightest.

Darth Dementor wrote:@Darth Dingbat

True Dat.  Rey is taking the first steps in the most important journey of her life and Finn is nowhere to be seen in it.  Mainly because he has no place to fit in, where she's going due to not being Force sensitive and because he will start his own journey, which Rey doesn't fit into, in the slightest.

@Darth Dementor

So this. They don't fit in each other's journeys because this isn't OT where they all meet and greet at the Rebellion base, so some Mon Mothma bidding, part ways, rinse repeat. This is, like, total separation and I think it's because film-makers want to make it clear that Rey is the main lead and her journey isn't shared with other heroes. There's no traditional trio here. Finn, KMT and Poe may become one or Finn and KMT will be a kickass duo, but Rey's journey is her own. KK said that when she explained difference between Jyn (team player) and Rey (not).

vaderito wrote:

Darth Dementor wrote:@Darth Dingbat

True Dat.  Rey is taking the first steps in the most important journey of her life and Finn is nowhere to be seen in it.  Mainly because he has no place to fit in, where she's going due to not being Force sensitive and because he will start his own journey, which Rey doesn't fit into, in the slightest.

@Darth Dementor

So this. They don't fit in each other's journeys because this isn't OT where they all meet and greet at the Rebellion base, so some Mon Mothma bidding, part ways, rinse repeat. This is, like, total separation and I think it's because film-makers want to make it clear that Rey is the main lead and her journey isn't shared with other heroes. There's no traditional trio here. Finn, KMT and Poe may become one or Finn and KMT will be a kickass duo, but Rey's journey is her own. KK said that when she explained difference between Jyn (team player) and Rey (not).

@vaderito

Do you have the KK quote?

It's very interesting because lots of people seem to envision Rey as being fully integrated into the Resistance already - all that stuff about Rey, Finn and Poe as the sweet and dazzlingly perfect "trio" who somehow seem to lose all their individual personalities and become a generic group of Good Guys(tm) when you slap the three of them together.

I'm sure it's partly because of the marketing, partly because she seems to charm everybody in TFA, but for some reason few people seem to appreciate how much of a loner Rey really is.

Darth Dingbat wrote:

Do you have the KK quote?

“Jyn, even though she is the lead in Rogue One, she’s very much a part of a team and an ensemble group. So the character operates in a way that’s quite different the story we’re telling with Rey.

http://kevinpolowy.tumblr.com/post/147508357498/felicity-jones-and-kathleen-kennedy-dont-want

It's very interesting because lots of people seem to envision Rey as being fully integrated into the Resistance already - all that stuff about Rey, Finn and Poe as the sweet and dazzlingly perfect "trio" who somehow seem to lose all their individual personalities and become a generic group of Good Guys(tm) when you slap the three of them together.

Yep, fanart that makes me gag. rey usually has orange pilot suit on. Definite gag.

I'm sure it's partly because of the marketing, partly because she seems to charm everybody in TFA, but for some reason few people seem to appreciate how much of a loner Rey really is.

@Darth Dingbat

But Kylo does.

Thank you, @vaderito! If that isn't a clear signal of separate journeys, I don't know what is.

I have a serious adverse reaction to seeing Rey in an orange pilot suit, too. Can't help it...

Darth Dingbat wrote:Thank you, @vaderito! If that isn't a clear signal of separate journeys, I don't know what is.

They really made it obvious in every way but, as Pablo says, people made up their minds so...

I have a serious adverse reaction to seeing Rey in an orange pilot suit, too. Can't help it...

@Darth Dingbat

I have adverse reaction to that suit, period. I always hated it. I love orange but something about that suit rubs me the wrong way. I want Rey and Kylo as far away from that thing as it gets.

Darth Dingbat wrote:

vaderito wrote:

Darth Dementor wrote:@Darth Dingbat

True Dat.  Rey is taking the first steps in the most important journey of her life and Finn is nowhere to be seen in it.  Mainly because he has no place to fit in, where she's going due to not being Force sensitive and because he will start his own journey, which Rey doesn't fit into, in the slightest.

@Darth Dementor

So this. They don't fit in each other's journeys because this isn't OT where they all meet and greet at the Rebellion base, so some Mon Mothma bidding, part ways, rinse repeat. This is, like, total separation and I think it's because film-makers want to make it clear that Rey is the main lead and her journey isn't shared with other heroes. There's no traditional trio here. Finn, KMT and Poe may become one or Finn and KMT will be a kickass duo, but Rey's journey is her own. KK said that when she explained difference between Jyn (team player) and Rey (not).

@vaderito

Do you have the KK quote?

It's very interesting because lots of people seem to envision Rey as being fully integrated into the Resistance already - all that stuff about Rey, Finn and Poe as the sweet and dazzlingly perfect "trio" who somehow seem to lose all their individual personalities and become a generic group of Good Guys(tm) when you slap the three of them together.

I'm sure it's partly because of the marketing, partly because she seems to charm everybody in TFA, but for some reason few people seem to appreciate how much of a loner Rey really is.

@Darth Dingbat

Yup,and I've seen lots of fic writers doing that as well.I mean most of the stories are great but there are very few where Rey isn't integrated in the Resistanse or Kylo doesn't come crawling back to them begging for forgivness.It could happen in canon I guess but I would like to see different thing sfrom time to time.Some people are just too influenced by the OT3 so they believe Rey,Finn and Poe will be the new one.

@CienaRee OT googles are so damn strong that people still believe in it despite evidence to the contrary. Speaking of trios, this is ANH:



As you can see, they are about equal with Luke appearing slightly bigger and definitely centered to emphasize he's the lead. But they are grouped together as a trio and they act like one in the movie.

Now this is TFA:



Trio appears to be Kylo, Rey and Finn but not as obvious as in ANH poster. Poe definitely doesn't appear to be part of the trio.

This is one of 2 ESB posters:



It shows Luke on one side (of the plot) and Han and Leia on another.



Even in this version you can feel that the three of them don't act as a trio anymore, that Hanleia are in their own world and Luke's in his.

ROTJ, back to acting more like a trio:



Now this is our first glimpse into VIII:



Kylo, Luke and Rey appear more as a trio than Rey, Finn and Poe. It's how those characters are positioned in relation to each other, they size, their placement within the circle (Rey, Kylo and Luke are in the central circle, Finn and Poe are in the outer one).

So everything points out that those 3 characters won't make a trio. yet people can't use common sense.

@Vaderito in addition Rey, Kylo, and Luke are all connected in the VIII semi poster.  They're all grouped together, their images touching each other.  

Finn doesn't seem to fit in anywhere.  But he is linked with Poe.   And if her character wasn't kept so secret Kelly's character would be bunched in with them.

Darth Dementor wrote:@Vaderito in addition Rey, Kylo, and Luke are all connected in the VIII semi poster.  They're all grouped together, their images touching each other.  

Finn doesn't seem to fit in anywhere.  But he is linked with Poe.   And if her character wasn't kept so secret Kelly's character would be bunched in with them.

@Darth Dementor

All of this! You can feel that a character is missing to connect Finn and Poe and make them look like a group. Also, spot on about Rey, Kylo and Luke being connected through grouping and images touching each other.

There is also one thing I have just notice on those old ESB posters: No hints of the main conflict (twist). Luke is all alone -and Vader is dominant above all. It looks like there is no personal conflict at all.
In that sense I would not expect that poster for the 8 would show much of the biggest twist as well (especially if they are going full Reylo)

Something I just noticed. Rey only ran or physically moved twice; at the beginning in Bespin Alley and after she saw her self dumped on Jakku. Both times she is running towards Kylo. In the novel she saw a little boy and she ran to him to find out who he was. It's a pretty safe bet to assume the boy was Ben. Then when she ran after the Jakku part she turned and fled into the woods in SKB right into Kylo.

It's funny how the vision began and ended with him. Not to mention he was right smack dab in the middle with the KOR moment. And he was in both future parts.

Having thought about this over the past six or so months I honestly feel that the Force Back underwent so many changes over production that it's difficult (maybe impossible) to say what certain shots are supposed to mean right now. At one point it was Ben Solo's backstory, at another it showed Kylo holding a mysterious saber and at yet another it showed Maz stealing the legacy saber from Kylo. It seems as though it became a jumble of a bunch of different ideas over production, and it was only really given direction by Rian Johnson. It's vague enough that no matter what happens it'll end up being meaningful (lots of potential and obvious symbolism). There will be that "ahah, that's what that was meant to mean" moment for sure, possibly more than one. I'm not worried about the scene appearing random by the time the trilogy is complete, I'm just not sure there are any huge discernible secrets hidden in it beyond "it's Rey's destiny to bring the Skywalker family back together."

But don't ya get the impression that her destiny is to help Luke and ren from that vision?

I just feel like they cut a lot of crap out of it to actually just simplify things in terms of her quest. In terms of the meaning behind certain imagery m, I agree. It probably will be revealed later.

What you end up with in terms of her quest in TFA, is saber calling, she sees 2 skywalkers who need help, gets a realisation that she was abandoned as a child, not dropped off which basically gives her her motive to leave jakku behind. Then Maz tells her Luke needs to come home (although I think she also means Ben) and she tells her to take the saber to aid her in her quest to do this. The saber is something key to do with Luke and Ben both coming back. I mean the moment ren sees her with it it's like puppy dog love eyes which is the start of him coming back. Then the ending its to kick Luke up the a**.

The saber was the key to both of them coming home that's why Maz her mentor tells her to take it to aid her in her quest. But what will it mean in future episodes? It was bens so it will be about her giving it to him when the time is right im assuming?

@Gemini
Yes, that's exactly what I think it's meant to convey (from the vision itself, the idea that she was called by the saber and her connection with Ren). It does that perfectly well. It's seeking specific meaning behind shots that I'm not so sure we can do right now because the scene evolved so much. A lot went unused, and I assume certain bits were used that were filmed late in the game. Rian had an idea and went with it despite the fact that it was different from what JJ and the others had been working with. That's the impression I get.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:@Gemini
Yes, that's exactly what I think it's meant to convey (from the vision itself, the idea that she was called by the saber and her connection with Ren). It does that perfectly well. It's seeking specific meaning behind shots that I'm not so sure we can do right now because the scene evolved so much. A lot went unused, and I assume certain bits were used that were filmed late in the game. Rian had an idea and went with it despite the fact that it was different from what JJ and the others had been working with. That's the impression I get.

Yes I agree, the symbolism and imagery will probably make sense later. Everything will even the corridor she's in or the palpatine scream or that rain scene, the ship she sees, even the sequence of events in the vision are all probably revealing something which we will see. It's future plot points for sure. It's annoyingly confusing.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Gemini wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:@Gemini
Yes, that's exactly what I think it's meant to convey (from the vision itself, the idea that she was called by the saber and her connection with Ren). It does that perfectly well. It's seeking specific meaning behind shots that I'm not so sure we can do right now because the scene evolved so much. A lot went unused, and I assume certain bits were used that were filmed late in the game. Rian had an idea and went with it despite the fact that it was different from what JJ and the others had been working with. That's the impression I get.

Yes I agree, the symbolism and imagery will probably make sense later. Everything will even the corridor she's in or the palpatine scream or that rain scene, the ship she sees, even the sequence of events in the vision are all probably revealing something which we will see. It's future plot points for sure. It's annoyingly confusing.
@FrolickingFizzgig

@Gemini
I'm not so sure that everything is meant to mean something. A lot of it is just more atmosphere IMO, especially the sound effects from the past. Some of them are probably just cool audio easter eggs and a way to include old voices in a newer release.

Anything that's not clear and muffled is probably just an Easter egg. Some is aesthetic as well I agree

Deleted.

ViviF wrote:@vaderito
TFA's poster is amazing in its total lack of subtlety. Notice how Reylo are looking in the same direction, and if I didn't they were adversaries I'd assume they were uniting their strength by aligning their weapons. And the surrounding color is red unlike Finn's blue and the Resistance's orange. And oh my God, Maz is just underneath Kylo and she's the one trying to tell Rey that they're destined to be by the force itself. My favorite detail is the light emanating from Kylo's heart and illuminating them both. That lense flare is my shipper goggles.

Third wheel Luke (art by sessshoumaru):

@ViviF

That's an amazing observation (oh, and Maz details is just ) and third wheel Luke is so true.

ViviF wrote:@vaderito
TFA's poster is amazing in its total lack of subtlety. Notice how Reylo are looking in the same direction, and if I didn't they were adversaries I'd assume they were uniting their strength by aligning their weapons. And the surrounding color is red unlike Finn's blue and the Resistance's orange. And oh my God, Maz is just underneath Kylo and she's the one trying to tell Rey that they're destined to be by the force itself. My favorite detail is the light emanating from Kylo's heart and illuminating them both. That lense flare is my shipper goggles.

Third wheel Luke (art by sessshoumaru):

@ViviF

Amazing

So, part four of The Force Awakens Marvel comics covers Rey's vision. It is very interesting. Sure, it might not be as canon-y as the movie, but it is certainly easier to follow when it is all illustrated like this:



source-https://twitter.com/Dave_DSG/status/774237027722227712

@jakkusun

I wonder who shadow Rey was seeing in the hallway, Vader, Snoke,Luke or Kylo?

Also the KOR scene, many of us believe the surrounding is just rocks but in here, it was bodies. I wonder which is correct?

Sylvia Snow wrote:@jakkusun

I wonder who shadow Rey was seeing in the hallway, Vader, Snoke,Luke or Kylo?

Also the KOR scene, many of us believe the surrounding is just rocks but in here, it was bodies. I wonder which is correct?

@Sylvia Snow

The TFA novel mentions that Rey sees two figures fighting at the end of the corridor in her force vision.... so the figure would most probably be Vader with his back to her.