ARCHIVE: Discussion: Podcasts - 2

@Sylvia Snow Do you mean the Adam and Eve/Ahch-to is Garden of Eden theory one? They have the entire episode on mixcloud but it's audio only https://www.mixcloud.com/sw_connection/swc9-rey-and-kylo-as-adam-and-eve-return-to-jedi-eden/

Speaking of SWC, I wanted to share this episode about the influence of Romanticism in official Lucasfilm art



I still have a copy of the 'Call to the Light' print from Celebration Europe that I'm planning on selling, so if anybody wants it, send me a PM!

@BastilaBey

Oh, thank you. I didn't know that. I only using the YouTube channel

[quote="Queen of the Knights"]I briefly checked out some of the other MSW podcasts this week and they all discuss the new rumour for VIII, TFA, etc. Here are some interesting quotes:

1) "The Cantina Cast" #142:

Min 23: they talk about how TFA is UNLIKE ANH in a lot of ways:

TFA gets a lot of flack for being very much ANH-like.
I wanna do an episode where we talk about how it is like... how it is not like ANH. I didn't see any...
I think there were a lot of parts that weren't very reminiscent to ANH.

Min 25: The podcasters discuss Luke's role in the future movies as we now know he's coming back in IX. They describe him as an an Obi-Wan figure, giving advice to Rey and speculate about the future of the saga:

There needs to be some finality to it cause then you need Rey and whoever else to kinda be the new... ushers of the new Jedi order when they remake those books as... you know...

There's also this interesting speculation about Palpatine and whether he knows Snoke (I don't necessarily agree, but I guess it's a possibility):

There is this whole thing with Snoke and Jakku and all of this...And the Emperor... So, if he is still orchestrating things after his death... Maybe he still had some plans for the galaxy and maybe somebody uncovered that and is going along with it.

Min 37: They discuss the new rumours for VIII: Rey's point of view; putting the pieces together; comparisons to Luke and Anakin's recurring multiple force visions; how Rey sees both the future and the past; they see the visions as Rey's introduction to the Force; no one seems to believe in Reywalker btw, they probably know it's not true

Luke's blue lightsaber has to have been there for... everything, whether it was the past or the future. That's the reason why when she touches the lightsaber, she gets this vision. Even the voices...
She couldn't have been there for all those visions and stuff.
That was basically her introduction to the Force.
She sees the vision, but has no control over it because her force abilitirs are so raw and she almost get sucked into it.

They talk about common themes in other fairytales, e.g. compare the lightsaber choosing Rey to King Arthur and Excalibur, also HP where the wand chooses the wizard; why did the lightsaber go to Rey and not Anakin's grandson; who should rightfully have it; dark vs. light, e.g. Anakin loses it when he goes to the dark side, etc.

It's not a new concept where the weapon chooses the hero.
Something in that lightsaber chose Rey.

 (even though Kylo should have had no trouble getting it)

Min. 47: The team discusses some TFA quotes:
-Finn's defection/backstory; they knew Rey was the awakeing as they had info before the release they couldn't share; there's no real evidence that Finn is FS
-Rey's memories:

Rey is 19. Do you think she remembers much from when she was 5 years old?
So these people that tell me that Rey had to remember who her parents are and all this, like that's the biggest joke I've ever heard.
I think she remembers the trauma of what happened and that it was her family, but she doesn't know exactly the details or maybe she just put it in a...repressed memory.

-The ''It's just us now. HS can't save you'' quote: they compare Kylo to a wounded animal in that scene; there's discussion of Ben's childhood as a kid struggling with his demons, wanting to be different, how he sees his father, why Anakin would be the real hero to him cause he related to his grandfather as FS, etc.

2) "Rebel Girrrl" Ep. 45:

They call Luke, Rey, Kylo "huge, central characters in this plot'' (the Anch-To plot) and then go on to discuss the force vision. Some highlights:
-there is a reason they put this in the teaser
-Bloodline and Rey's role; we see everything through her eyes
-Rey might not have been there when it happened, but now it's ''fueling her journey''
-"She is going to have feelings about it"
-''It's the catalyst that started everything.'' (the vision)
-''It's crazy to think that in Bloodline, 6 years before TFA, Luke and Kylo were still ''cool'', so to speak.''
''And then something this bad and drastic happens and just changes everything in a second.
''It's really interesting.''[/quote
@Queen of the Knights

I had to look back at the top of your post to confirm that this was indeed the Cantina Cast, because those guys were serious Reywalkers starting out. That was the podcast I stopped listening to because although I can handle the Reywalker theory -- it's still entirely possible, although I hope not for various reasons-- I couldn't deal with the "Rey must be a legacy character or she's worthless" thing, which of course didn't apply to Finn (who could equally be Luke's kid.). I couldn't tell whether it was sexist or just not giving enough attention to Finn because he's not FS or something, but either way it made me not want to listen anymore. It was very much old-school fans who wanted it their way, and that's not what your synopsis above sounds like at all, and that's promising.

Interesting (and good) how much things have changed.

@Lily Snape
I think it's pretty clear that if MSW knows anything at this stage in the game it's that Rey isn't a Skywalker/Solo. There's a reason they've been so convinced for so long, and it's not just because of the timeline or Bloodline. No doubt the other podcast groups had to eventually accept the truth no matter how difficult. Even Jason's wife had trouble if I recall. She was (and maybe still is) convinced that Rey was a Solo until late-game changes to the story. When Bloodline was released she kept saying "it doesn't make any sense" and "why would they write it this way?"

I'm curious... why do you think Reywalker is "entirely possible?" I don't think I could make the theory work at this point without serious character assassinations, retcon and a beyond convoluted background explanation for why Rey was already on Jakku 8 years before everything went sour for the Skywalker family. In short, terrible, confusing writing - most hardcore Reywalkers will even admit this. No mention of a lost cousin or daughter, no memory loss, Ben, Luke, Han and Leia all doing their own thing in the years leading up to Ben's fall. The creative decisions tell us that this was not the direction they ever planned to go in. If it were the story would be completely different.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:@Lily Snape
I think it's pretty clear that if MSW knows anything at this stage in the game it's that Rey isn't a Skywalker/Solo. There's a reason they've been so convinced for so long, and it's not just because of the timeline or Bloodline. No doubt the other podcast groups had to eventually accept the truth no matter how difficult. Even Jason's wife had trouble if I recall. She was (and maybe still is) convinced that Rey was a Solo until late-game changes to the story. When Bloodline was released she kept saying "it doesn't make any sense" and "why would they write it this way?"

I'm curious... why do you think Reywalker is "entirely possible?" I don't think I could make the theory work at this point without serious character assassinations, retcon and a beyond convoluted background explanation for why Rey was already on Jakku 8 years before everything went sour for the Skywalker family. In short, terrible, confusing writing - most hardcore Reywalkers will even admit this. No mention of a lost cousin or daughter, no memory loss, Ben, Luke, Han and Leia all doing their own thing in the years leading up to Ben's fall. The creative decisions tell us that this was not the direction they ever planned to go in. If it were the story would be completely different.

@FrolickingFizzgig

I may be wrong, but was it Jason's wife who mocked the idea of Rey and Kylo establishing a close connection in one of those rebel girl podcasts?? it was pretty harsh...

@Mana
I'm not sure. I don't particularly care that the woman was mocking the idea (though she was obviously wrong and you could tell she knew it), it was more how she was talking to the other woman who was bringing up arguments that completely shattered her own. The gist of what the other lady was trying to say was, whether or not it's elaborated upon in VIII and IX, nobody can really deny that Kylo and Rey have an intense, mysterious connection in TFA. Maybe that's just the way they always talk to each other, but it bothered me and I've had no desire to listen to one of the Rebel Grrrls podcasts since. The other woman should have been more confident because she was absolutely right. These characters have seen each other's thoughts in a way nobody else ever has. They do have a bizarre connection that transcends what side they're affiliated with.

I also stopped listening to The Cantina Cast for awhile due to the constant 'because she is Luke's daughter." after everything. It's a shocking change. Seems like more and more people are realizing that everything was not as simple as they originally thought. At least they're still sticking with it and not throwing a fit and abandoning SW because they didn't get what they wanted/expected.

MSW definitely knows a lot of things we don't; they're very hesitant with talking about certain topics and super careful with the wording. It gives me hope that we really are getting something unique and not the terrible fanfiction a lot of old school fans were predicting.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:@Mana
I'm not sure. I don't particularly care that the woman was mocking the idea (though she was obviously wrong and you could tell she knew it), it was more how she was talking to the other woman who was bringing up arguments that completely shattered her own. The gist of what the other lady was trying to say was, whether or not it's elaborated upon in VIII and IX, nobody can really deny that Kylo and Rey have an intense, mysterious connection in TFA. Maybe that's just the way they always talk to each other, but it bothered me and I've had no desire to listen to one of the Rebel Grrrls podcasts since. The other woman should have been more confident because she was absolutely right. These characters have seen each other's thoughts in a way nobody else ever has. They do have a bizarre connection that transcends what side they're affiliated with.

@FrolickingFizzgig

hmm, I maybe it wasn't her..but I'm betting it was that woman who wrote that anti Reylo article a while back claiming Reylo reminded her of her own experiences with domestic abuse..but the funniest thing about that article was that she said she was an Anakin woobifier "At least Anakin didn't kidnap Padme" (her words)...Anakin may not have kidnapped his wife but he did choke her while she was pregnant and cause her death!!
I almost spat out my tea reading that LOL!!!

@Mana Becca from the cantina cast wrote that article. I stopped listening a long time ago, too, they were just so sure she was a Skywalker that it clouded their perception of the entire film and where things would go now. They thought Kylo couldn't possibly be redeemed. So it's encouraging to hear that they've accepted the possibility that things might be a bit different.

BastilaBey wrote:@Mana Becca from the cantina cast wrote that article. I stopped listening a long time ago, too, they were just so sure she was a Skywalker that it clouded their perception of the entire film and where things would go now. They thought Kylo couldn't possibly be redeemed. So it's encouraging to hear that they've accepted the possibility that things might be a bit different.

@BastilaBey

I was so sure that article might have been a joke! she couldn't present a single valid argument against Reylo except "I don't like this and that it reminds me of blah blah blah"

I rarely listen to podcasts in general, just check the MSW website from time to time for episode VIII news. I had never listened to this one in particular, but I remember when you guys mentioned the above occasion a few months ago. It appalled me and I immediately dismissed the podcast as not worthy of my attention. The whole thing just angered me, especially the rudeness. No comment on the "last minute changes" theory. I guess they also invented Kylo and Rey's connection (which is central to the plot of the whole trilogy) at the last minute!? Yeah, even people who claim to believe in nonsensical stuff like this must realise how flat their arguments really are. I checked the last episode out of curiosity as they were discussing the rumour, and was ready to be disappointed, but, as it turns out, there's been some evolution of opinion on many fronts. I agree: if there's one thing MSW are certain of at this point, it is that Rey is not and has never been a Skywalker (or a Solo as some people like to make a big deal out of this distinction).

Queen of the Knights wrote:I rarely listen to podcasts in general, just check the MSW website from time to time for episode VIII news. I had never listened to this one in particular, but I remember when you guys mentioned the above occasion a few months ago. It appalled me and I immediately dismissed the podcast as not worthy of my attention. The whole thing just angered me, especially the rudeness. No comment on the "last minute changes" theory. I guess they also invented Kylo and Rey's connection (which is central to the plot of the whole trilogy) at the last minute!? Yeah, even people who claim to believe in nonsensical stuff like this must realise how flat their arguments really are. I checked the last episode out of curiosity as they were discussing the rumour, and was ready to be disappointed, but, as it turns out, there's been some evolution of opinion on many fronts. I agree: if there's one thing MSW are certain of at this point, it is that Rey is not and has never been a Skywalker (or a Solo as some people like to make a big deal out of this distinction).

@Queen of the Knights

I'm big on podcasts because my job is rather tedious so listening to podcasts really helps. I don't miss NTIP and have recently got hooked on MSW's Force Cult. Also, love SWC stuff which is really something that you can listen multiple times, always a new thing to learn.

When that article came out I immediately deleted their podcast feed. She's not the first Anakin apologist/Kylo hater that I've noticed. There's quite a few of them. The hypocrisy is mind blowing. Don't get me started on the ones that ship Anidala.

BenRey wrote:When that article came out I immediately deleted their podcast feed. She's not the first Anakin apologist/Kylo hater that I've noticed. There's quite a few of them. The hypocrisy is mind blowing. Don't get me started on the ones that ship Anidala.

@BenRey

Right? The ones who ship Anidala with the heat of 1000 suns, yet are vehemently anti-Reylo blow my ever loving mind.

Kylo is her enemy for kriff's sake, and he treats Rey better than Anakin did Padme in RotS.

BenRey wrote:When that article came out I immediately deleted their podcast feed. She's not the first Anakin apologist/Kylo hater that I've noticed. There's quite a few of them. The hypocrisy is mind blowing. Don't get me started on the ones that ship Amidala.

@BenRey

Yeah, how the heck they forgot that Anidala ends with a major domestic abuse? Suddenly, there's some revisionist history at play and they are poster for healthy relationship although he Force choked her while she was pregnant! WTH? I'm a fan of the pairing because I think it was bold of GL to show a romance like that when everyone expected Hanleia-like screwball comedy. Plus it fits the story. he became the Dark Lord so no sugarcoating (although GL chickened out to actually show Anakin killed her and that became the "lost the will to live" cop out so that Anakin could skate by). Just ridiculous. If you dislike Reylo fine but don't try to rewrite history where very toxic couple suddenly becomes un-problematic in order to bring down Reylo. Doesn't work.

Ugh, like I said before, I tend to avoid any kind of science fiction "fan" type activity because I just remember a kid how completely snotty the Star Trek/Doctor Who clique as my secondary school (yep, they had a clique and a club) were. Like as mean and elitist as the jocks and popular kids. This place is different because everybody's so open-minded and just enthusiastic about discussing stuff. But some of the comments about podcasts and their having something close to an ideology about how Rey "has" to be Luke's kid or disliking her dynamic with Ren, just turn me off from ever wanting to listen to anything those people have to say. It already felt like when I was 16 that there were people who acted like gatekeepers in terms of how to be the "right" kind of fan. Anecdotes like these ones just make me feel like nothing's changed.

vaderito wrote:

BenRey wrote:When that article came out I immediately deleted their podcast feed. She's not the first Anakin apologist/Kylo hater that I've noticed. There's quite a few of them. The hypocrisy is mind blowing. Don't get me started on the ones that ship Amidala.

@BenRey

Yeah, how the heck they forgot that Anidala ends with a major domestic abuse? Suddenly, there's some revisionist history at play and they are poster for healthy relationship although he Force choked her while she was pregnant! WTH? I'm a fan of the pairing because I think it was bold of GL to show a romance like that when everyone expected Hanleia-like screwball comedy. Plus it fits the story. he became the Dark Lord so no sugarcoating (although GL chickened out to actually show Anakin killed her and that became the "lost the will to live" cop out so that Anakin could skate by). Just ridiculous. If you dislike Reylo fine but don't try to rewrite history where very toxic couple suddenly becomes un-problematic in order to bring down Reylo. Doesn't work.

@vaderito

I agree..Anakin should've been the one to kill Padme instead of the whole 'died of a broken heart' bs...it makes sense for Anakin's downfall...

Mana wrote:

vaderito wrote:

BenRey wrote:When that article came out I immediately deleted their podcast feed. She's not the first Anakin apologist/Kylo hater that I've noticed. There's quite a few of them. The hypocrisy is mind blowing. Don't get me started on the ones that ship Amidala.

@BenRey

Yeah, how the heck they forgot that Anidala ends with a major domestic abuse? Suddenly, there's some revisionist history at play and they are poster for healthy relationship although he Force choked her while she was pregnant! WTH? I'm a fan of the pairing because I think it was bold of GL to show a romance like that when everyone expected Hanleia-like screwball comedy. Plus it fits the story. he became the Dark Lord so no sugarcoating (although GL chickened out to actually show Anakin killed her and that became the "lost the will to live" cop out so that Anakin could skate by). Just ridiculous. If you dislike Reylo fine but don't try to rewrite history where very toxic couple suddenly becomes un-problematic in order to bring down Reylo. Doesn't work.

@vaderito

I agree..Anakin should've been the one to kill Padme instead of the whole 'died of a broken heart' bs...it makes sense for Anakin's downfall...

@Mana

Yeah, I still kind of stubbornly hold on to the headcanon that Palps drained Padme's life force to keep Anakin alive during the process of turning him into Vader. It makes much more sense storywise and it makes Vader's guilt more palpable. I've said it so many times before, but for the life of me, I will never understand how Lucas thought Padme dying of a broken heart/losing the will to live made any sense for her character when she had two babies who needed her.

Regarding podcasts, etc...I also remember that self-projecting anti-Reylo article and it turned me off Rebel Grrl podcasts too...in fact, I don't listen to any podcasts except SWC (which are great) and Jason Ward's weekly MSW podcasts. I tried to listen to one of the other MSW podcasts once and it was Reywalker galore.

Kessel89 wrote:

Mana wrote:

vaderito wrote:

BenRey wrote:When that article came out I immediately deleted their podcast feed. She's not the first Anakin apologist/Kylo hater that I've noticed. There's quite a few of them. The hypocrisy is mind blowing. Don't get me started on the ones that ship Amidala.

@BenRey

Yeah, how the heck they forgot that Anidala ends with a major domestic abuse? Suddenly, there's some revisionist history at play and they are poster for healthy relationship although he Force choked her while she was pregnant! WTH? I'm a fan of the pairing because I think it was bold of GL to show a romance like that when everyone expected Hanleia-like screwball comedy. Plus it fits the story. he became the Dark Lord so no sugarcoating (although GL chickened out to actually show Anakin killed her and that became the "lost the will to live" cop out so that Anakin could skate by). Just ridiculous. If you dislike Reylo fine but don't try to rewrite history where very toxic couple suddenly becomes un-problematic in order to bring down Reylo. Doesn't work.

@vaderito

I agree..Anakin should've been the one to kill Padme instead of the whole 'died of a broken heart' bs...it makes sense for Anakin's downfall...

@Mana

Yeah, I still kind of stubbornly hold on to the headcanon that Palps drained Padme's life force to keep Anakin alive during the process of turning him into Vader. It makes much more sense storywise and it makes Vader's guilt more palpable. I've said it so many times before, but for the life of me, I will never understand how Lucas thought Padme dying of a broken heart/losing the will to live made any sense for her character when she had two babies who needed her.

Regarding podcasts, etc...I also remember that self-projecting anti-Reylo article and it turned me off Rebel Grrl podcasts too...in fact, I don't listen to any podcasts except SWC (which are great) and Jason Ward's weekly MSW podcasts. I tried to listen to one of the other MSW podcasts once and it was Reywalker galore.

@Kessel89

Same here, about Palps draining Padme's life force to save Anakin. It makes even more sense when you consider his speech to Anakin regarding Plageius the Wise, and how he wanted the power to manipulate life.

I'm sure he passed that knowledge onto Sheev.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:@Lily Snape
I think it's pretty clear that if MSW knows anything at this stage in the game it's that Rey isn't a Skywalker/Solo. There's a reason they've been so convinced for so long, and it's not just because of the timeline or Bloodline. No doubt the other podcast groups had to eventually accept the truth no matter how difficult. Even Jason's wife had trouble if I recall. She was (and maybe still is) convinced that Rey was a Solo until late-game changes to the story. When Bloodline was released she kept saying "it doesn't make any sense" and "why would they write it this way?"

I'm curious... why do you think Reywalker is "entirely possible?" I don't think I could make the theory work at this point without serious character assassinations, retcon and a beyond convoluted background explanation for why Rey was already on Jakku 8 years before everything went sour for the Skywalker family. In short, terrible, confusing writing - most hardcore Reywalkers will even admit this. No mention of a lost cousin or daughter, no memory loss, Ben, Luke, Han and Leia all doing their own thing in the years leading up to Ben's fall. The creative decisions tell us that this was not the direction they ever planned to go in. If it were the story would be completely different.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Eh, just me preparing myself for disappointment. I think it's highly unlikely. No mention of a lost niece, a lost wife of Luke, etc. No one recognizing her. Luke as a deadbeat dad? = please, no. And total rehash of the OT. Not to mention that Kylo's behavior toward Rey would make no sense at all if looked at in retrospect as the interaction of long-lost cousins-- he's so obviously taken with her.

Also, I screwed up the quote boxes up there. I should edit that just to fix it, since most of those words aren't mine.

So, no, I don't think it's likely. But I have this "Hope for the best, prepare for the worst" mindset-- and yes, that would be the worst.

Mana wrote:

vaderito wrote:

BenRey wrote:When that article came out I immediately deleted their podcast feed. She's not the first Anakin apologist/Kylo hater that I've noticed. There's quite a few of them. The hypocrisy is mind blowing. Don't get me started on the ones that ship Amidala.

@BenRey

Yeah, how the heck they forgot that Anidala ends with a major domestic abuse? Suddenly, there's some revisionist history at play and they are poster for healthy relationship although he Force choked her while she was pregnant! WTH? I'm a fan of the pairing because I think it was bold of GL to show a romance like that when everyone expected Hanleia-like screwball comedy. Plus it fits the story. he became the Dark Lord so no sugarcoating (although GL chickened out to actually show Anakin killed her and that became the "lost the will to live" cop out so that Anakin could skate by). Just ridiculous. If you dislike Reylo fine but don't try to rewrite history where very toxic couple suddenly becomes un-problematic in order to bring down Reylo. Doesn't work.

@vaderito

I agree..Anakin should've been the one to kill Padme instead of the whole 'died of a broken heart' bs...it makes sense for Anakin's downfall...

@Mana

Not to mention that it's Classic Tragedy 101: try to avoid a prophecy, and you end up causing it yourself.

Lily Snape wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:@Lily Snape
I think it's pretty clear that if MSW knows anything at this stage in the game it's that Rey isn't a Skywalker/Solo. There's a reason they've been so convinced for so long, and it's not just because of the timeline or Bloodline. No doubt the other podcast groups had to eventually accept the truth no matter how difficult. Even Jason's wife had trouble if I recall. She was (and maybe still is) convinced that Rey was a Solo until late-game changes to the story. When Bloodline was released she kept saying "it doesn't make any sense" and "why would they write it this way?"

I'm curious... why do you think Reywalker is "entirely possible?" I don't think I could make the theory work at this point without serious character assassinations, retcon and a beyond convoluted background explanation for why Rey was already on Jakku 8 years before everything went sour for the Skywalker family. In short, terrible, confusing writing - most hardcore Reywalkers will even admit this. No mention of a lost cousin or daughter, no memory loss, Ben, Luke, Han and Leia all doing their own thing in the years leading up to Ben's fall. The creative decisions tell us that this was not the direction they ever planned to go in. If it were the story would be completely different.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Eh, just me preparing myself for disappointment. I think it's highly unlikely. No mention of a lost niece, a lost wife of Luke, etc. No one recognizing her. Luke as a deadbeat dad? = please, no. And total rehash of the OT. Not to mention that Kylo's behavior toward Rey would make no sense at all if looked at in retrospect as the interaction of long-lost cousins-- he's so obviously taken with her.

Also, I screwed up the quote boxes up there. I should edit that just fix it, since most of those words aren't mine.

So, no, I don't think it's likely. But I have this "Hope for the best, prepare for the worst" mindset-- and yes, that would be the worst.

@Lily Snape
I guess I tend to take more of a "assume the writers know what they're doing until proven otherwise" mindset. I look at these creative decisions and see a story about a young woman coming-of-age, confronting her shadow, finding her place in the galaxy and Force and integrating with an incredibly influential family by being the light that guides their youngest member back on the right path.

Darth Dingbat wrote:

Mana wrote:

vaderito wrote:

BenRey wrote:When that article came out I immediately deleted their podcast feed. She's not the first Anakin apologist/Kylo hater that I've noticed. There's quite a few of them. The hypocrisy is mind blowing. Don't get me started on the ones that ship Amidala.

@BenRey

Yeah, how the heck they forgot that Anidala ends with a major domestic abuse? Suddenly, there's some revisionist history at play and they are poster for healthy relationship although he Force choked her while she was pregnant! WTH? I'm a fan of the pairing because I think it was bold of GL to show a romance like that when everyone expected Hanleia-like screwball comedy. Plus it fits the story. he became the Dark Lord so no sugarcoating (although GL chickened out to actually show Anakin killed her and that became the "lost the will to live" cop out so that Anakin could skate by). Just ridiculous. If you dislike Reylo fine but don't try to rewrite history where very toxic couple suddenly becomes un-problematic in order to bring down Reylo. Doesn't work.

@vaderito

I agree..Anakin should've been the one to kill Padme instead of the whole 'died of a broken heart' bs...it makes sense for Anakin's downfall...

@Mana

Not to mention that it's Classic Tragedy 101: try to avoid a prophecy, and you end up causing it yourself.

@Darth Dingbat

Padme dying of a broken heart was so cringworthy and awful that even LF realized it and later the EU  ended up retconning that part to Vader actually killing her.It turned out that Padme died not because she lost the will to live but because Anakin had broken her neck:

Additionally in 18 BBY, Amidala's head of security during her time as Senator of the Chommell sector, Gregar Typho, secretly began an investigation into her death, as while he served under her, he had developed an unrequited love for her. Typho later discovered that Amidala had died due to strangulation, a fact that had initially been missed due to the fact that there were no exterior signs of trauma of any kind (including but not limited to bruising on the neck, scratches, and/or signs of congestion on the neck). Multiple, more in-depth autopsies later all revealed and concluded that Amidala had indeed died of strangulation, and despite the fact that there were no external injuries to conclude this, there were internal ones, such as a fractured hyoid bone, damage to the larynx, and compression of the trachea. Typho soon discovered that Darth Vader was somehow involved in the death of his beloved, and after luring the Dark Lord of the Sith to an abandoned location, with the bait of Jedi Knight Jax Pavan, so as to avenge the Senator, Typho himself died at the hands of Amidala's former love and killer.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Padm%C3%A9_Amidala/Legends

But yeah Padme totally ended up being sacarfised as a character eventhough Anakin would go and commit many astrocaties(and he had already what with killing innocent children)but I guess that's not as evil as killing your wife(or father figure in the OT or cutting your son's hand).

CienaRee wrote:

Darth Dingbat wrote:

Mana wrote:

vaderito wrote:

BenRey wrote:When that article came out I immediately deleted their podcast feed. She's not the first Anakin apologist/Kylo hater that I've noticed. There's quite a few of them. The hypocrisy is mind blowing. Don't get me started on the ones that ship Amidala.

@BenRey

Yeah, how the heck they forgot that Anidala ends with a major domestic abuse? Suddenly, there's some revisionist history at play and they are poster for healthy relationship although he Force choked her while she was pregnant! WTH? I'm a fan of the pairing because I think it was bold of GL to show a romance like that when everyone expected Hanleia-like screwball comedy. Plus it fits the story. he became the Dark Lord so no sugarcoating (although GL chickened out to actually show Anakin killed her and that became the "lost the will to live" cop out so that Anakin could skate by). Just ridiculous. If you dislike Reylo fine but don't try to rewrite history where very toxic couple suddenly becomes un-problematic in order to bring down Reylo. Doesn't work.

@vaderito

I agree..Anakin should've been the one to kill Padme instead of the whole 'died of a broken heart' bs...it makes sense for Anakin's downfall...

@Mana

Not to mention that it's Classic Tragedy 101: try to avoid a prophecy, and you end up causing it yourself.

@Darth Dingbat

Padme dying of a broken heart was so cringworthy and awful that even LF realized it and later the EU  ended up retconning that part to Vader actually killing her.It turned out that Padme died not because she lost the will to live but because Anakin had broken her neck:

Additionally in 18 BBY, Amidala's head of security during her time as Senator of the Chommell sector, Gregar Typho, secretly began an investigation into her death, as while he served under her, he had developed an unrequited love for her. Typho later discovered that Amidala had died due to strangulation, a fact that had initially been missed due to the fact that there were no exterior signs of trauma of any kind (including but not limited to bruising on the neck, scratches, and/or signs of congestion on the neck). Multiple, more in-depth autopsies later all revealed and concluded that Amidala had indeed died of strangulation, and despite the fact that there were no external injuries to conclude this, there were internal ones, such as a fractured hyoid bone, damage to the larynx, and compression of the trachea. Typho soon discovered that Darth Vader was somehow involved in the death of his beloved, and after luring the Dark Lord of the Sith to an abandoned location, with the bait of Jedi Knight Jax Pavan, so as to avenge the Senator, Typho himself died at the hands of Amidala's former love and killer.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Padm%C3%A9_Amidala/Legends

But yeah Padme totally ended up being sacarfised as a character eventhough Anakin would go and commit many astrocaties(and he had already what with killing innocent children)but I guess that's not as evil as killing your wife(or father figure in the OT or cutting your son's hand).

@CienaRee

I actually find the idea of Obi Wan having to cut out the twins from Padme's dead body pretty dramatic...he could have even named them himself. It would have added to the tragedy - Padme dies at the hands of her husband without even knowing she was carrying twins and Obi Wan is left to pick up the pieces :'(

Mana wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:@Mana
I'm not sure. I don't particularly care that the woman was mocking the idea (though she was obviously wrong and you could tell she knew it), it was more how she was talking to the other woman who was bringing up arguments that completely shattered her own. The gist of what the other lady was trying to say was, whether or not it's elaborated upon in VIII and IX, nobody can really deny that Kylo and Rey have an intense, mysterious connection in TFA. Maybe that's just the way they always talk to each other, but it bothered me and I've had no desire to listen to one of the Rebel Grrrls podcasts since. The other woman should have been more confident because she was absolutely right. These characters have seen each other's thoughts in a way nobody else ever has. They do have a bizarre connection that transcends what side they're affiliated with.

@FrolickingFizzgig

hmm, I maybe it wasn't her..but I'm betting it was that woman who wrote that anti Reylo article a while back claiming Reylo reminded her of her own experiences with domestic abuse..but the funniest thing about that article was that she said she was an Anakin woobifier "At least Anakin didn't kidnap Padme" (her words)...Anakin may not have kidnapped his wife but he did choke her while she was pregnant and cause her death!!
I almost spat out my tea reading that LOL!!!

@Mana

People who confuse fiction with reality have some issues. Some things baffle me