Why Finn and Rey are an awesome duo, of friends!

LIKE BROTHER AND SISTER. Finnrey, dead on arrival. We hardly knew ye.

I kinda feel sorry for Finn Rey gang. I mean imagine if after all this time something came out that basically squashed Reylo. Wouldn't feel nice, not nice at all

Little_Boots wrote:I kinda feel sorry for Finn Rey gang. I mean imagine if after all this time something came out that basically squashed Reylo. Wouldn't feel nice, not nice at all

@Little_Boots

The impression I always got was that nobody actually 'shipped' FinnRey. It was a group primarily of fanboys who wanted Rey to end up with the good boy, the one they identified with, and people who quite rightly thought it would be great to see an interracial couple in such a huge Hollywood movie. But if that's not where the writers and director are taking us, it's not going to happen.

BastilaBey wrote:

Little_Boots wrote:I kinda feel sorry for Finn Rey gang. I mean imagine if after all this time something came out that basically squashed Reylo. Wouldn't feel nice, not nice at all

@Little_Boots

The impression I always got was that nobody actually 'shipped' FinnRey. It was a group primarily of fanboys who wanted Rey to end up with the good boy, the one they identified with, and people who quite rightly thought it would be great to see an interracial couple in such a huge Hollywood movie. But if that's not where the writers and director are taking us, it's not going to happen.

@BastilaBey

Whenever I wandered into a certain thread, it was weird because most of it was about John mostly, interviews outside of FA and pictures of random strangers who were interracial.

LOL you guys..they're saying [REDACTED] that Rey and Finn scenes had to be toned down because they were a better match for each other than Han and Leia ever were...so less bickering...I.....cant.....

P.S. also, if you don't support Finnrey...apparently there's something wrong with you...

BastilaBey wrote:

Little_Boots wrote:I kinda feel sorry for Finn Rey gang. I mean imagine if after all this time something came out that basically squashed Reylo. Wouldn't feel nice, not nice at all

@Little_Boots

The impression I always got was that nobody actually 'shipped' FinnRey. It was a group primarily of fanboys who wanted Rey to end up with the good boy, the one they identified with, and people who quite rightly thought it would be great to see an interracial couple in such a huge Hollywood movie. But if that's not where the writers and director are taking us, it's not going to happen.

@BastilaBey
You can really see where the division in the different parts of the fandom come from: character preferences. Rey Skywalker's love Luke, FinnRey's love Finn and Reylo's love Ren and Rey, but I would say we're mainly invested in Ren's redemption. Of those three, which is the most valid and realistic when looking at longterm story potential?

Well, Finn isn't the main character, so scratch FinnRey's Finn-centric predictions right off the bat. Looks like he's on the B-Plot. Mark Hamill/JJ have said repeatedly that Luke is a supporting character now, so the Luke-centric Reywalker view is totally off-base too. That leaves us with what I'll call the Kylo-centric view for the sake of fairness. Rey and Kylo are the hero and the villain, the light and the dark, the daughter of nothing and the son of legends. Rey's involvement in the story as a non-Skywalker automatically means she'll have to engage with Ren in some huge way. Her connection with Ren is the one that will shape the story. This narrative hasn't been set up to be about about Rey and Luke or Rey and Finn. This is Star Wars, a story that will always be centred on the Skywalker's. And Rey isn't a Skywalker, but Kylo—who has very much been positioned for a redemption arc and who shows signs of having some kind fascination with Rey—is.

FinnRey's aren't "bad" people. Reywalker's aren't either. They're just suffering from genre-confusion and protagonist-confusion that stems from what character is their personal favourite. I'm confident they won't be completely wrong. Finn is going to be the lead of his own story, just as Luke is going to have some kind of mentor relationship with Rey.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

BastilaBey wrote:

Little_Boots wrote:I kinda feel sorry for Finn Rey gang. I mean imagine if after all this time something came out that basically squashed Reylo. Wouldn't feel nice, not nice at all

@Little_Boots

The impression I always got was that nobody actually 'shipped' FinnRey. It was a group primarily of fanboys who wanted Rey to end up with the good boy, the one they identified with, and people who quite rightly thought it would be great to see an interracial couple in such a huge Hollywood movie. But if that's not where the writers and director are taking us, it's not going to happen.

@BastilaBey
You can really see where the division in the different parts of the fandom come from: character preferences. Rey Skywalker's love Luke, FinnRey's love Finn and Reylo's love Ren and Rey, but I would say we're mainly invested in Ren's redemption. Of those three, which is the most valid and realistic when looking at longterm story potential?

Well, Finn isn't the main character, so scratch FinnRey's Finn-centric predictions right off the bat. Looks like he's on the B-Plot. Mark Hamill/JJ have said repeatedly that Luke is a supporting character now, so the Luke-centric Reywalker view is totally off-base too. That leaves us with what I'll call the Kylo-centric view for the sake of fairness. Rey and Kylo are the hero and the villain, the light and the dark, the daughter of nothing and the son of legends. Rey's involvement in the story as a non-Skywalker automatically means she'll have to engage with Ren in some huge way. Her connection with Ren is the one that will shape the story. This narrative hasn't been set up to be about about Rey and Luke or Rey and Finn. This is Star Wars, a story that will always be centred on the Skywalker's. And Rey isn't a Skywalker, but Kylo—who has very much been positioned for a redemption arc and who shows signs of having some kind fascination with Rey—is.

FinnRey's aren't "bad" people. Reywalker's aren't either. They're just suffering from genre-confusion and protagonist-confusion that stems from what character is their personal favourite. I'm confident they won't be completely wrong. Finn is going to be the lead of his own story, just a Luke is going to have some kind of mentor relationship with Rey.

@FrolickingFizzgig

I REQUEST THE HIGHEST OF FIVE!

Mana wrote:LOL you guys..they're saying [REDACTED] that Rey and Finn scenes had to be toned down because they were a better match for each other than Han and Leia ever were...so less bickering...I.....cant.....

P.S. also, if you don't support Finnrey...apparently there's something wrong with you...

@Mana
Actually what that really means is "If you support Rey and Ren/Ren's redemption there's something wrong with you."

Finnrey don't know how to watch movies because their wants cloud their judgement. For example, it's made way too obvious that VIII won't be adventures of Rey and Finn where they hold hands and fight bad guys from start to finish. They are going to headline separate plots which is why their path isn't made compatible in TFA already - he's excluded from Force plot completely, which is her major plot that she shares with Kylo. It's inevitable that Rey and Kylo will continue to share the screen and evolve together with their relationship.

Finnrey's other problem is that they copy everything we say about Reylo and try to apply it on Finnrey. Force Bond is "reaching" and "fanfiction' when Reylos debate it but it totally canon when applied on Finnrey. That just shows you how low romantic potential there is when they steal ideas from their "enemy" ship. pathetic.

Finnrey as a romantic couple would be incredibly underwhelming for Star Wars. Romance in Star Wars has always been epic and ground-breaking, and Finnrey just doesn't make the cut...

Mana wrote:Finnrey as a romantic couple would be incredibly underwhelming for Star Wars. Romance in Star Wars has always been epic and ground-breaking, and Finnrey just doesn't make the cut...

@Mana

They don't make the cut as anything. We've seen more exciting friendships than this insta BFF crap. Kids in the sandbox. Oh, wait, Jakku = sand = sandbox. Figures.

Kind of relevant, but I love this article about the trope of the "heroes" more competent than him friend/girlfriend b/c that's another instance where Rey totally subverts the stereotype w/Finn as her sidekick. She is the hero the story b/c she's more competent. Also notice that Luke/Leia are included at the end of the list.

Every semi-competent male hero has a ​more talented​ female sidekick. Why isn’t she the hero ​instead? [http://www.vox.com/2016/4/18/11433378/heroes-female-sidekicks]

Because however well-intentioned any particular story’s use of the competent female sidekick trope might be, the enormous accumulated mass of these stories sends a very different message. It suggests that no matter how strong and smart and compelling a woman might be, she is still less important, less vital, just less, than any vaguely competent man. And no matter how hard she works, she will never accomplish more than he does.

snufkin wrote:Kind of relevant, but I love this article about the trope of the "heroes" more competent than him friend/girlfriend b/c that's another instance where Rey totally subverts the stereotype w/Finn as her sidekick. She is the hero the story b/c she's more competent. Also notice that Luke/Leia are included at the end of the list.

Every semi-competent male hero has a ​more talented​ female sidekick. Why isn’t she the hero ​instead? [http://www.vox.com/2016/4/18/11433378/heroes-female-sidekicks]

Because however well-intentioned any particular story’s use of the competent female sidekick trope might be, the enormous accumulated mass of these stories sends a very different message. It suggests that no matter how strong and smart and compelling a woman might be, she is still less important, less vital, just less, than any vaguely competent man. And no matter how hard she works, she will never accomplish more than he does.

@snufkin

That's a great find and very true. Another example are Brianne and Podrick (Game of Thrones). She's a competent warrior and he's her incompetent squire and great, loyal friends. They are not going to hook up these two.

vaderito wrote:

snufkin wrote:Kind of relevant, but I love this article about the trope of the "heroes" more competent than him friend/girlfriend b/c that's another instance where Rey totally subverts the stereotype w/Finn as her sidekick. She is the hero the story b/c she's more competent. Also notice that Luke/Leia are included at the end of the list.

Every semi-competent male hero has a ​more talented​ female sidekick. Why isn’t she the hero ​instead? [http://www.vox.com/2016/4/18/11433378/heroes-female-sidekicks]

Because however well-intentioned any particular story’s use of the competent female sidekick trope might be, the enormous accumulated mass of these stories sends a very different message. It suggests that no matter how strong and smart and compelling a woman might be, she is still less important, less vital, just less, than any vaguely competent man. And no matter how hard she works, she will never accomplish more than he does.

@snufkin

That's a great find and very true. Another example are Brianne and Podrick (Game of Thrones). She's a competent warrior and he's her incompetent squire and great, loyal friends. They are not going to hook up these two.

@vaderito

I had a whole discussion w/a friend on this topic about why the Magicians is such a let down, Alice & Julia are a million times better than Quentin, so why is he the hero? Which is another reason why TFA is so brilliantly subversive.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:From The Stormtrooper and the Scavenger:

Daisy: "We're just like brother and sister. (John nods) That's really the best I can describe it. We get on really well. We're both incredibly silly."

John: "What fans see in the movie in terms of our rhythm, in terms of our banter is actually real offscreen. When J.J. was going through the script he made some tweaks based on the way [Daisy and I] talk to each other."

Daisy: "It's just, it's easy. It's not hard to find that relationship with someone you get on so well with."

I can see why the FinnRey's have quieted down so much. This coupled with the "Rey and Finn are BFF's comment" probably hit them hard.

LOL! Yikes! That's rough!



"A wild Kylo appears!" Kylo is the Rogue One

Holy Sith! Familyzone if there was ever one!

Mana wrote:Finnrey as a romantic couple would be incredibly underwhelming for Star Wars. Romance in Star Wars has always been epic and ground-breaking, and Finnrey just doesn't make the cut...

@Mana

Not quite - what about Anidala? Horrendous, poorly acted, poorly written and certainly not ground-breaking.

Never thought I would say this but I actually prefer FinnRey over that atrocity. At least their relationship is more natural.

Airemyn wrote:

Mana wrote:Finnrey as a romantic couple would be incredibly underwhelming for Star Wars. Romance in Star Wars has always been epic and ground-breaking, and Finnrey just doesn't make the cut...

@Mana

Not quite - what about Anidala? Horrendous, poorly acted, poorly written and certainly not ground-breaking.

Never thought I would say this but I actually prefer FinnRey over that atrocity. At least their relationship is more natural.

@Airemyn

the idea of a Jedi and Senator forbidden romance is certainly epic and groundbreaking for a Star Wars movie...even though it was poorly executed...I would take it over Finnrey which is uninspired and tension free...

Can we take a moment to consider how absolutely awesome it must be to work on a set for an awesome movie like Star Wars with your best friend? That's absolutely amazing!

Mana wrote:

Airemyn wrote:

Mana wrote:Finnrey as a romantic couple would be incredibly underwhelming for Star Wars. Romance in Star Wars has always been epic and ground-breaking, and Finnrey just doesn't make the cut...

@Mana

Not quite - what about Anidala? Horrendous, poorly acted, poorly written and certainly not ground-breaking.

Never thought I would say this but I actually prefer FinnRey over that atrocity. At least their relationship is more natural.

@Airemyn

the idea of a Jedi and Senator forbidden romance is certainly epic and groundbreaking for a Star Wars movie...even though it was poorly executed...I would take it over Finnrey which is uninspired and tension free...

@Mana

But you could say the same for FinnRey - an ex-stormtrooper and a scavenger/trainee jedi. I don't remember much tension in the Anidala scenes, just awkwardness and stilted dialogue. I think we'll have to agree to disagree.

Airemyn wrote:

Mana wrote:

Airemyn wrote:

Mana wrote:Finnrey as a romantic couple would be incredibly underwhelming for Star Wars. Romance in Star Wars has always been epic and ground-breaking, and Finnrey just doesn't make the cut...

@Mana

Not quite - what about Anidala? Horrendous, poorly acted, poorly written and certainly not ground-breaking.

Never thought I would say this but I actually prefer FinnRey over that atrocity. At least their relationship is more natural.

@Airemyn

the idea of a Jedi and Senator forbidden romance is certainly epic and groundbreaking for a Star Wars movie...even though it was poorly executed...I would take it over Finnrey which is uninspired and tension free...

@Mana

But you could say the same for FinnRey - an ex-stormtrooper and a scavenger/trainee jedi. I don't remember much tension in the Anidala scenes, just awkwardness and stilted dialogue. I think we'll have to agree to disagree.

@Airemyn
Anidala was poorly executed on screen because of bad dialogue, rushed romance...but imagine them if their romance had been well executed...Reylo could be terrible if poorly executed too, but the idea of a Hero/Villain romance is epic nonetheless...Finnrey could have been romantic too, but they killed all the tension between them by making them cutesy instant friends...

Airemyn wrote:

Mana wrote:

Airemyn wrote:

Mana wrote:Finnrey as a romantic couple would be incredibly underwhelming for Star Wars. Romance in Star Wars has always been epic and ground-breaking, and Finnrey just doesn't make the cut...

@Mana

Not quite - what about Anidala? Horrendous, poorly acted, poorly written and certainly not ground-breaking.

Never thought I would say this but I actually prefer FinnRey over that atrocity. At least their relationship is more natural.

@Airemyn

the idea of a Jedi and Senator forbidden romance is certainly epic and groundbreaking for a Star Wars movie...even though it was poorly executed...I would take it over Finnrey which is uninspired and tension free...

@Mana

But you could say the same for FinnRey - an ex-stormtrooper and a scavenger/trainee jedi. I don't remember much tension in the Anidala scenes, just awkwardness and stilted dialogue. I think we'll have to agree to disagree.

@Airemyn

I'm sorry but what's groundbreaking and epic about ex-storm trooper and a scavenger? That he's a storm trooper means nothing to her because her beef was never with FO. She got involved when BB8 came to her and by that time Finn was an ex storm trooper trying to defect to the Resistance. In short, not a storm trooper. Zero tension.

Moreover, what does storm trooper and a scavenger even mean? There's no class struggle here like Lady and a Tramp or Princess and a Scoundrel. or physical and good/evil difference such as Beauty and the Beast. They are not opposites. They are...nothing.

Anidala may not have been well executed but ambition of that pairing cannot be denied. OTOH, Finn and Rey have no ambition even as friends. They exist to provide the movie with instantly likable characters without any risk. Stupid talking at the same time and that sort of kiddie crap. OTOH, ANH took lots of time before Luke, Han and Leia started to function as a team. Luke was whiny, Han was self-serving and cynical and Leia was haughty and condescending. They bickered, put down each other, almost got themselves killed on more than one occasion all the while they were bonding without realizing it. Finn and Rey had to carry signs "we are BFF!!! Look at us! We even talk at the same time, we get along that well 5 minutes after meeting for the first time ever!' Blech.

Finally, Anidala was always going to be a romance. They are Luke and leia;s parents. Finn and Rey are not set up as a romance.

I just watched TFA with my mom and she loves Finn. He's her favorite character, but mainly for the humor aspect. She finds him "delightful" and she liked that he was so brave towards the end, while through most of the movie he was scared witless.

That being said, she still only identifies his relationship with Rey as "brotherly". I didn't bring it up, she did. She said "I love them together. Not romantic, but more like brother and sister." Of course I jumped up to agree with her, but the deduction she made was all on her own. And it was based on what she saw in the movie.

I thought it was good because she loves Finn and yet, isn't rooting for a romance for him just because "he's her favorite character." I think more people should differentiate between the two concepts. You can love Finn, you can identify with Finn, he could be your favorite character in the entire universe. And at the same time, you can just accept that his character was written without romance in mind.

I also thought it was interesting when she kisses his forehead and says "We will see each other again. I believe that." It made me wonder...but will they ever see each other the same way they left off? What if the next time he sees her, she's changed because she's been tempted by the dark side?

snufkin wrote:Kind of relevant, but I love this article about the trope of the "heroes" more competent than him friend/girlfriend b/c that's another instance where Rey totally subverts the stereotype w/Finn as her sidekick. She is the hero the story b/c she's more competent. Also notice that Luke/Leia are included at the end of the list.

Every semi-competent male hero has a ​more talented​ female sidekick. Why isn’t she the hero ​instead? [http://www.vox.com/2016/4/18/11433378/heroes-female-sidekicks]

Because however well-intentioned any particular story’s use of the competent female sidekick trope might be, the enormous accumulated mass of these stories sends a very different message. It suggests that no matter how strong and smart and compelling a woman might be, she is still less important, less vital, just less, than any vaguely competent man. And no matter how hard she works, she will never accomplish more than he does.

@snufkin

I love this article you posted. Or rather, I hate the truth it uncovers, but it's well noted. Harry Potter always bugged me because of that. And people claim it's feminist.

Due to this pattern people can think even subconsciously that Finn is the protagonist. The fact that Rey is more competent than him doesn't matter, it's part of the trope. And, interestingly enough, in TFA, Rey does get captured! The difference is that Finn helps save the day, but eventually it's Rey who saves herself. She was also perfectly capable of escaping on her own, as noted by Kylo Ren. So I guess the trope is subverted.

Finn does come back for her and I think it's so sweet that Chewie rescues the both of them and is the character who goes off with her on her adventure (after she's turned
down Han, Finn, & Ren)