Why Finn and Rey are an awesome duo, of friends!

snufkin wrote:Finn does come back for her and I think it's so sweet that Chewie rescues the both of them and is the character who goes off with her on her adventure (after she's turned
down Han, Finn, & Ren)

@snufkin

What I find interesting about Finn "coming back for her" is that the movie establishes that she did not need to be saved. In fact, she never needed anyone. Why was she so touched that Finn, Han and Chewie came back for her, if she didn't need help? Because it was about finding friendship. Even though Rey is self sufficient, she needs friends, and she finds them.

The same theme happens with the hand holding in the beginning. She doesn't want Finn to hold her hand, but eventually she extends her own and understands that it's about friendship, not about needing help. I thought that it was a cool moment, but yes, it was rushed. I would be really upset if a guy I just met started to hold my hand. And I'm not sure holding hands is a very good idea when you're running. Anyways, but there's something cool there.

Xylo Ren wrote:I just watched TFA with my mom and she loves Finn. He's her favorite character, but mainly for the humor aspect. She finds him "delightful" and she liked that he was so brave towards the end, while through most of the movie he was scared witless.

That being said, she still only identifies his relationship with Rey as "brotherly". I didn't bring it up, she did. She said "I love them together. Not romantic, but more like brother and sister." Of course I jumped up to agree with her, but the deduction she made was all on her own. And it was based on what she saw in the movie.

I thought it was good because she loves Finn and yet, isn't rooting for a romance for him just because "he's her favorite character." I think more people should differentiate between the two concepts. You can love Finn, you can identify with Finn, he could be your favorite character in the entire universe. And at the same time, you can just accept that his character was written without romance in mind.

I also thought it was interesting when she kisses his forehead and says "We will see each other again. I believe that." It made me wonder...but will they ever see each other the same way they left off? What if the next time he sees her, she's changed because she's been tempted by the dark side?

@Xylo Ren

Completely agree with everything said here. Regarding the bolded, I'm of the opinion that type of mindset is one of the main reasons why we tend to be accused of being "Finn haters". As a good number of us Reylo fans/supporters either lowkey ship or simply do not care about Finnrey, I can imagine that in certain Finn fans' minds, we're people who want Finn to be miserable and lonely which is truly not the case. Like you said, you can like/love a character and accept that his/her role was not written with romance in mind. Or (adding to your point) you could prefer a different romance for him/her or just simply think that romance intended for him/her does not suit your taste or poorly-written.

As for your question, I honestly don't think Finn and Rey won't see each other the same way they did before they separated. There's a good chance Rey being tempted by the Dark Side can cause her and Finn to see each other differently as well as cast a huge rift in their relationship. But I also can see the time they spent away from one another, their own unique experiences, and developing their own beliefs causing them to see each other in a different light. .

Force22 wrote:

snufkin wrote:Kind of relevant, but I love this article about the trope of the "heroes" more competent than him friend/girlfriend b/c that's another instance where Rey totally subverts the stereotype w/Finn as her sidekick. She is the hero the story b/c she's more competent. Also notice that Luke/Leia are included at the end of the list.

Every semi-competent male hero has a ​more talented​ female sidekick. Why isn’t she the hero ​instead? [http://www.vox.com/2016/4/18/11433378/heroes-female-sidekicks]

Because however well-intentioned any particular story’s use of the competent female sidekick trope might be, the enormous accumulated mass of these stories sends a very different message. It suggests that no matter how strong and smart and compelling a woman might be, she is still less important, less vital, just less, than any vaguely competent man. And no matter how hard she works, she will never accomplish more than he does.

@snufkin

I love this article you posted. Or rather, I hate the truth it uncovers, but it's well noted. Harry Potter always bugged me because of that. And people claim it's feminist.

Due to this pattern people can think even subconsciously that Finn is the protagonist. The fact that Rey is more competent than him doesn't matter, it's part of the trope. And, interestingly enough, in TFA, Rey does get captured! The difference is that Finn helps save the day, but eventually it's Rey who saves herself. She was also perfectly capable of escaping on her own, as noted by Kylo Ren. So I guess the trope is subverted.

@Force22

On top of that she saved Finn's life by beating Ren in a physical confrontation , who dominated him in a fight.

I don't see a Finn/Rey romance or relationship because romantic relationships need conflict - it's healthy according to people far more educated than me!

And there is no conflict in the relationship between Finn and Rey - not even when he leaves her on Takodana (twice - the first at the table and then on the steps).  She doesn't put up any real fight to make him stay, she just says 'don't go' and that's it really - he leaves.

Whereas in the two key relationships in the SW universe there was conflict (and I'm sure other's can expand on these):

Han/Leia - class divide/sexual attraction/clear sexual chemistry/strong personalities/other suitors (hey Luke!!)

Anakin/Padme - role issues (Jedi + senator)/strong moral beliefs/different political opinions (even before he was firmer under Palp's wing)/thoughts on other people's opinions of their relationship(especially the JC + OB1)

Also both of these relationships had ramifications felt long after and consequences:

Anakin/Padme - his turn to the Dark Side and becoming Darth Vader/her death/the birth of Luke and Leia/then ultimately his death/the ending of the Jedi Order/OB1's death/Han and Leia (because if weren't for Anidala they'd never had met)

Han/Leia - the birth of Ben/Kylo/his death/parental issues/relationship issues - this one has less of course but the whole Ben/Kylo one is a biggie!!!

Where will the conflict between Finn and Rey come from?  There's no class divide.  No role issues that oppose a relationship.  And we don't know enough about Finn and Rey as individuals to know about moral beliefs etc.

The ingredients aren't there for a Finnrey romance - it lacks the trappings of an epic or memorable romance.

It's kind fo funny I'm reading the junior novelazation and while the style is much more understandale and unambigious I think the author kind of got the wrong idea about Finnrey judging from these quotes:
For a few moments,everything was perfect.Rey had given Unkar Plutt his comeuppance.She'd escaped soldiers and pilots aiming to kill her.And she'd found a new friend who,unlike BB-8,was flesh and blood.In fact,after getting a good look at him,he was quite-
He cut into her thoughts.'Why are we-'
'Staring at each other?'
'Yeah.'
'I don't know.'
...'My name is Rey'.
'Rey',he repeated.She liked how he said it.
'I'm a stormtrooper,'Finn said.
His confession confounded her more.He was a stormtrooper?A soldier for the First Order?Was everything she knew about him-felt about him-a lie?

The adult novelazation also did something similar but with Rey and Poe.They had like one interaction and the novel made it seem like she was attracted to him or something.
It's interestign though because the junior one makes it clear Rey think the FO are horribale and in the scene where Finn leaves her she's begging him to stay is a little bit different than the one in the movie:
'You heard what Maz said.You're part of this fight.We both are.'As she looked at him up close,her anger abated.She saw a young man as confused as she was.'You must feel something.'

Because Finn is a traitah...and chicks don't dig traitahs...they befriend them....lol...

I don't think they will ever be anything more than friends...their interactions remind me of me and my best friends when we were kids...like 8 yearolds...funny and friendly...sometimes bickering and anoying...but never sexual...
When...he climbs in MF cockpit to check the ship above he touches her like a guy would touch his guy friend (in a totally non sexual manner)...when they hug...no sparks...zero...she has more sparks bursting with Kylo just by staring at eachother...

Finn is an awkward funny sanitation guy who knows about trash compactors....Kylo is a dark knight prince...like Batman... grown up hero-chicks dig Batmen...look at Catwoman
Rey is a grown up hero...even though she is barely 20...she grew up on Jakku...that one knows how to take care of her self and kick butt...now she is strong with the force too and has a force bond with Kylo...Finn who????

Kylo Ren wrote:Because Finn is a traitah...and chicks don't dig traitahs...they befriend them....lol...

I don't think they will ever be anything more than friends...their interactions remind me of me and my best friends when we were kids...like 8 yearolds...funny and friendly...sometimes bickering and anoying...but never sexual...
When...he climbs in MF cockpit to check the ship above he touches her like a guy would touch his guy friend (in a totally non sexual manner)...when they hug...no sparks...zero...she has more sparks bursting with Kylo just by staring at eachother...

Finn is an awkward funny sanitation guy who knows about trash compactors....Kylo is a dark knight prince...like Batman... grown up hero-chicks dig Batmen...look at Catwoman
Rey is a grown up hero...even though she is barely 20...she grew up on Jakku...that one knows how to take care of her self and kick butt...now she is strong with the force too and has a force bond with Kylo...Finn who????

@Kylo Ren

All of this but bolded really shows what kind of relationship those 2 have. Kids in the sandbox. No wonder they met on a sandbox planet.

Ha! ha! ha!.....HA!
So true....you are wicked.... I approve

Finnrey definitely doesn't have any elements needed for an epic romance nor does it fulfill all of the requirements for a standard SW romance. However, (sorry, the embittered shipper in me is coming out) I still think it can becoming endgame just because I can easily see the writers wimping out in the end and try to play it "safe" in regards to romance. And Finnrey, besides Poerey, is "safest" option of all of the TFA ships. LBR, it's not exactly uncommon for writers to opt out of canonizing or exploring compelling yet "problematic" ships because they fear the backlash that might ensue for morally upsetting a certain set of fans.

Finnrey is not happening. All rumors, actors statements and seen material so far point out to Finn and KMT character to become the couple in VIII and rey and Kylo relationship to become something "fascinating and nuanced" to quote MSW podcast. Finn is to Rey exactly what DR said - BFF, like a brother - and that's all in TFA.

Because finn is just a sidekick

vaderito wrote:Finnrey is not happening. All rumors, actors statements and seen material so far point out to Finn and KMT character to become the couple in VIII and rey and Kylo relationship to become something "fascinating and nuanced" to quote MSW podcast. Finn is to Rey exactly what DR said - BFF, like a brother - and that's all in TFA.

@vaderito

Oh, thank God. Sorry for the cynicism, but after dealing with numerous shipping fiascos with ABC's Once Upon A Time, Legend of Korra, SyFy's Dominion and various others, I just learned to have low expectations when it comes to ships I like.

Libra Vibora wrote:

Oh, thank God. Sorry for the cynicism, but after dealing with numerous shipping fiascos with ABC's Once Upon A Time, Legend of Korra, SyFy's Dominion and various others, I just learned to have low expectations when it comes to ships I like.

@Libra Vibora

there's a difference between a ship that's set up to be the endgame, and ship that looks plausible because chemistry, etc but is not set up to sail. @FrolickingFizzGig can explain that better.

It's because there isn't dramatic impact with Finn and Rey becoming a couple. It wouldn't change the story, it would just be a nice cute sideplot. That works for other genres, but SW is epic. Main characters don't enter relationships simply because that's what people do, it has to affect things in some way. There are no obstacles for Finn and Rey to overcome, because they already get along. JJ really could have made their friendship feisty, abrasive, controversial. He's actually come out and specifically said he removed any kind of tension from their interactions. That's extremely telling.

BastilaBey wrote:It's because there isn't dramatic impact with Finn and Rey becoming a couple. It wouldn't change the story, it would just be a nice cute sideplot. That works for other genres, but SW is epic. Main characters don't enter relationships simply because that's what people do, it has to affect things in some way. There are no obstacles for Finn and Rey to overcome, because they already get along. JJ really could have made their friendship feisty, abrasive, controversial. He's actually come out and specifically said he removed any kind of tension from their interactions. That's extremely telling.

@BastilaBey

Ant that is why their shippers insist on romance. they think "no tension = sign of romance, everything smooth = romance". Things don't work that way at all, especially in romantic fiction and movies. It's never "so we are now in a romance cause we get along". Nobody ever just slips into romance. Completely different thing from friendship that is actually all about comfortable slipping [into friendship].

John Boyega interview from Cannes 2016 (regarding romance between Finn and Rey):

Interviewer: I loved the developing romance between your character, Finn and Rey in “The Force Awakens.” How is that romance evolving in the next chapter?

Boyega: I mean, we didn’t establish a romance in seven; we never played it that way. Daisy and I, we’re friends.

Interviewer: So there’s no romance?

Boyega: Yes, Finn and Rey – they’re just friends. Finn is a storm trooper, so he doesn’t really know what’s going on. So the romance thing is something that’s going to be interesting in the next installment. It’s not going to go the way you think it’s going to go.

Link to the full interview: http://variety.com/2016/film/news/star-wars-episode-viii-darker-bigger-john-boyega-1201774027/

John Boyega is officially my favorite person today. God bless him.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:John Boyega interview from Cannes 2016 (regarding romance between Finn and Rey):

Interviewer: I loved the developing romance between your character, Finn and Rey in “The Force Awakens.” How is that romance evolving in the next chapter?

Boyega: I mean, we didn’t establish a romance in seven; we never played it that way. Daisy and I, we’re friends.

Interviewer: So there’s no romance?

Boyega: Yes, Finn and Rey – they’re just friends. Finn is a storm trooper, so he doesn’t really know what’s going on. So the romance thing is something that’s going to be interesting in the next installment. It’s not going to go the way you think it’s going to go.

@FrolickingFizzgig

You have just made my day!

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:John Boyega interview from Cannes 2016 (regarding romance between Finn and Rey):

Interviewer: I loved the developing romance between your character, Finn and Rey in “The Force Awakens.” How is that romance evolving in the next chapter?

Boyega: I mean, we didn’t establish a romance in seven; we never played it that way. Daisy and I, we’re friends.

Interviewer: So there’s no romance?

Boyega: Yes, Finn and Rey – they’re just friends. Finn is a storm trooper, so he doesn’t really know what’s going on. So the romance thing is something that’s going to be interesting in the next installment. It’s not going to go the way you think it’s going to go.

Link to the full interview: http://variety.com/2016/film/news/star-wars-episode-viii-darker-bigger-john-boyega-1201774027/

@FrolickingFizzgig

Well, its not like we didn't see this coming LOL

Best day ever!!

You know, I don't know whether this is relevant or not but I was watching my GOT Series 1 DVD and listening to a commentary track by George RR Martin. He said that people have asked him whether Sam Tarly was based on Sam Gamgee from LOTR. That got me thinking: Sam is bascally the name of the hero's best friend. Both Sams are the best friends of the respective heros (Jon Snow and Frodo respectively). They are fierce loyal friends who support their friend morally and emotionally whenever our heroes get overcome by the weight of their task and defends them when necessary. I'm thinking since Finn was originally called Sam, this could be a big hint his role in the movie as Rey's best friend and supporter was already set in stone (which we already know now with PH's tweets), but the massive parallels are there - with Finn going to rescue Rey from SKB and defending her from Kylo Ren, just as Samwise Gamgee rescued and defended Frodo countless times.

AppleCrumble122 wrote:You know, I don't know whether this is relevant or not but I was watching my GOT Series 1 DVD and listening to a commentary track by George RR Martin. He said that people have asked him whether Sam Tarly was based on Sam Gamgee from LOTR. That got me thinking: Sam is bascally the name of the hero's best friend. Both Sams are the best friends of the respective heros (Jon Snow and Frodo respectively). They are fierce loyal friends who support their friend morally and emotionally whenever our heroes get overcome by the weight of their task and defends them when necessary. I'm thinking since Finn was originally called Sam, this could be a big hint his role in the movie as Rey's best friend and supporter was already set in stone (which we already know now with PH's tweets), but the massive parallels are there - with Finn going to rescue Rey from SKB and defending her from Kylo Ren, just as Samwise Gamgee rescued and defended Frodo countless times.

@AppleCrumble122

I saw someone make this point yesterday, that the Rey and Finn dynamic feels very much like Frodo/Samwise rather than like a romance. I'd say there is a component of that, but to me it feels more familial than Frodo/Sam, which has the master/servant aspect. Sure, Finn and Rey are on a quest together and Rey is the "ringbearer" but there is an "I am your family now" dynamic that is cemented when Finn goes back for her and they embrace on SK Base.

Darth Rowan wrote:

AppleCrumble122 wrote:You know, I don't know whether this is relevant or not but I was watching my GOT Series 1 DVD and listening to a commentary track by George RR Martin. He said that people have asked him whether Sam Tarly was based on Sam Gamgee from LOTR. That got me thinking: Sam is bascally the name of the hero's best friend. Both Sams are the best friends of the respective heros (Jon Snow and Frodo respectively). They are fierce loyal friends who support their friend morally and emotionally whenever our heroes get overcome by the weight of their task and defends them when necessary. I'm thinking since Finn was originally called Sam, this could be a big hint his role in the movie as Rey's best friend and supporter was already set in stone (which we already know now with PH's tweets), but the massive parallels are there - with Finn going to rescue Rey from SKB and defending her from Kylo Ren, just as Samwise Gamgee rescued and defended Frodo countless times.

@AppleCrumble122

I saw someone make this point yesterday, that the Rey and Finn dynamic feels very much like Frodo/Samwise rather than like a romance. I'd say there is a component of that, but to me it feels more familial than Frodo/Sam, which has the master/servant aspect. Sure, Finn and Rey are on a quest together and Rey is the "ringbearer" but there is an "I am your family now" dynamic that is cemented when Finn goes back for her and they embrace on SK Base.

@Darth Rowan

She's held on to the belief for years that her family was going to come back for her. And who does she meet/prompts her finally leaving Jakku, but Finn? He's her family.

snufkin wrote:

Darth Rowan wrote:

AppleCrumble122 wrote:You know, I don't know whether this is relevant or not but I was watching my GOT Series 1 DVD and listening to a commentary track by George RR Martin. He said that people have asked him whether Sam Tarly was based on Sam Gamgee from LOTR. That got me thinking: Sam is bascally the name of the hero's best friend. Both Sams are the best friends of the respective heros (Jon Snow and Frodo respectively). They are fierce loyal friends who support their friend morally and emotionally whenever our heroes get overcome by the weight of their task and defends them when necessary. I'm thinking since Finn was originally called Sam, this could be a big hint his role in the movie as Rey's best friend and supporter was already set in stone (which we already know now with PH's tweets), but the massive parallels are there - with Finn going to rescue Rey from SKB and defending her from Kylo Ren, just as Samwise Gamgee rescued and defended Frodo countless times.

@AppleCrumble122

I saw someone make this point yesterday, that the Rey and Finn dynamic feels very much like Frodo/Samwise rather than like a romance. I'd say there is a component of that, but to me it feels more familial than Frodo/Sam, which has the master/servant aspect. Sure, Finn and Rey are on a quest together and Rey is the "ringbearer" but there is an "I am your family now" dynamic that is cemented when Finn goes back for her and they embrace on SK Base.

@Darth Rowan

She's held on to the belief for years that her family was going to come back for her. And who does she meet/prompts her finally leaving Jakku, but Finn? He's her family.

@snufkin

Yes, and I think that's what she realizes when he goes back for her, that she's found her family. And that makes their relationship very important.

snufkin wrote:

Darth Rowan wrote:
I saw someone make this point yesterday, that the Rey and Finn dynamic feels very much like Frodo/Samwise rather than like a romance. I'd say there is a component of that, but to me it feels more familial than Frodo/Sam, which has the master/servant aspect. Sure, Finn and Rey are on a quest together and Rey is the "ringbearer" but there is an "I am your family now" dynamic that is cemented when Finn goes back for her and they embrace on SK Base.

@Darth Rowan

She's held on to the belief for years that her family was going to come back for her. And who does she meet/prompts her finally leaving Jakku, but Finn? He's her family.

@snufkin

Yes, exactly...Exactly! XD



And who "comes back for her" after all these years? Who she was waiting for: her family = Finn. She actually says to him: "You came back for me." She almost can't believe it, and that hug is made of win. I love that about their dynamic. I know that Finn is a hot mess in terms of the way his character is built, but where he was really successful was in that beautiful, authentic and uncomplicated connection with Rey.  Two orphans find each other and become each other's family. Something like that is more special than a crush, even first love or a clumsy teenage romance. Family is forever, even if they chop your hand off or run a saber through you.

I think that familial bond between Finn and Rey is at the heart of TFA as much as the scorching and complicated Kylo and Rey dynamic. Those human connections are what have always made Star Wars great. Spaceship battles and lightsabers are super cool, but they don't win your heart over the way love (romantic or not) and loss between people does.