ARCHIVE: Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors -14

What I'd like to see is Kylo turn up early in the film, and he and Rey abscond towards the middle - maybe post hut disintegration scene- and at the end they team upfor some reason - leaving a cliffhanger as to whether Rey will go 'dark' or Kylo 'light'.

Personally I'd love it if Luke rather than Rey went 'dark' - temporarily. What a twist that would be!

Irina de France wrote:No matter how hard I try, I just don't see any good reason storytelling-wise for Kylo to show up on Ahch-To at the end of the movie. It just proves to me it's yet another one of the fanboys' fanfics. I mean, what does Rey do the entire film apart from training with Luke? Once again, it's as if Finn gets all the cool action scenes. Which is fine, gimme some good actions scenes with Finn, but the focus is on him instead of Rey, who, ya know, is supposed to be the heroine.

So if Kylo Ren shows up on Ahch-To earlier (I'm going to say maximum at halftime of the movie), that will already make Rey's plot more interesting. And of course, their interactions have to go beyond: "Reyyyyyy, pleaaaaaaase..." "YOU'RE A MONSTAH" And I mean, sure, I'm fully prepared not to see romantic Reylo, but I don't really see the Trevorrow guy handling that, and call me heteronormative, but attractive dude + attractive girl + 50-year-old virgin hermit + Desert Island = ???

The Blue Lagoon

panki wrote:

Irina de France wrote:No matter how hard I try, I just don't see any good reason storytelling-wise for Kylo to show up on Ahch-To at the end of the movie. It just proves to me it's yet another one of the fanboys' fanfics. I mean, what does Rey do the entire film apart from training with Luke? Once again, it's as if Finn gets all the cool action scenes. Which is fine, gimme some good actions scenes with Finn, but the focus is on him instead of Rey, who, ya know, is supposed to be the heroine.

So if Kylo Ren shows up on Ahch-To earlier (I'm going to say maximum at halftime of the movie), that will already make Rey's plot more interesting. And of course, their interactions have to go beyond: "Reyyyyyy, pleaaaaaaase..." "YOU'RE A MONSTAH" And I mean, sure, I'm fully prepared not to see romantic Reylo, but I don't really see the Trevorrow guy handling that, and call me heteronormative, but attractive dude + attractive girl + 50-year-old virgin hermit + Desert Island = ???

The Blue Lagoon

@panki

Weren't they cousins, too?

nemapasara wrote:

panki wrote:

Irina de France wrote:No matter how hard I try, I just don't see any good reason storytelling-wise for Kylo to show up on Ahch-To at the end of the movie. It just proves to me it's yet another one of the fanboys' fanfics. I mean, what does Rey do the entire film apart from training with Luke? Once again, it's as if Finn gets all the cool action scenes. Which is fine, gimme some good actions scenes with Finn, but the focus is on him instead of Rey, who, ya know, is supposed to be the heroine.

So if Kylo Ren shows up on Ahch-To earlier (I'm going to say maximum at halftime of the movie), that will already make Rey's plot more interesting. And of course, their interactions have to go beyond: "Reyyyyyy, pleaaaaaaase..." "YOU'RE A MONSTAH" And I mean, sure, I'm fully prepared not to see romantic Reylo, but I don't really see the Trevorrow guy handling that, and call me heteronormative, but attractive dude + attractive girl + 50-year-old virgin hermit + Desert Island = ???

The Blue Lagoon

@panki

Weren't they cousins, too?

@nemapasara

You'll know we're doomed (both Reylo and Reylated) if Rian confirms Blue Lagoon as an isnpiration movie.

@Rei of Sunshine

I want to say that we're safe from that movie being an inspiration, but you never know!

I think it makes sense for Kylo to arrive on Ahch-to early on. I mean, if it was meant to be something that happens at the climax of the movie, than it makes any kind of development for their relationship rushed or non-existent in VIII. The fight will be the first scene we get of them physically together in the movie, I think that's pretty logical to think. The first act will be the drum up to that. And the aftermath of the fight will be where the development (hopefully) happens.

I just wonder if they do explore a force bond between them, how they'll interpret it on screen? Will it be them hearing each other's voices in their heads? Will they edit the scenes very meticulously?

nemapasara wrote:@Rei of Sunshine

I want to say that we're safe from that movie being an inspiration, but you never know!

I think it makes sense for Kylo to arrive on Ahch-to early on. I mean, if it was meant to be something that happens at the climax of the movie, than it makes any kind of development for their relationship rushed or non-existent in VIII. The fight will be the first scene we get of them physically together in the movie, I think that's pretty logical to think. The first act will be the drum up to that. And the aftermath of the fight will be where the development (hopefully) happens.

I just wonder if they do explore a force bond between them, how they'll interpret it on screen? Will it be them hearing each other's voices in their heads? Will they edit the scenes very meticulously?

@nemapasara

Maybe visions, like the one Rey had when she touched the lightsaber.

Piper Maru wrote:

nemapasara wrote:@Rei of Sunshine

I want to say that we're safe from that movie being an inspiration, but you never know!

I think it makes sense for Kylo to arrive on Ahch-to early on. I mean, if it was meant to be something that happens at the climax of the movie, than it makes any kind of development for their relationship rushed or non-existent in VIII. The fight will be the first scene we get of them physically together in the movie, I think that's pretty logical to think. The first act will be the drum up to that. And the aftermath of the fight will be where the development (hopefully) happens.

I just wonder if they do explore a force bond between them, how they'll interpret it on screen? Will it be them hearing each other's voices in their heads? Will they edit the scenes very meticulously?

@nemapasara

Maybe visions, like the one Rey had when she touched the lightsaber.

@Piper Maru

@nemapasara

I've waivered abit on the Force Bond. It seems less likely now. BUT, I do believe they're still connected in some way, and maybe like Piper said, they'll have visions of each other. In a way, it's like a Force Bond, but not exactly like the textbook definition of it.

Rei of Sunshine wrote:

Piper Maru wrote:

nemapasara wrote:@Rei of Sunshine

I want to say that we're safe from that movie being an inspiration, but you never know!

I think it makes sense for Kylo to arrive on Ahch-to early on. I mean, if it was meant to be something that happens at the climax of the movie, than it makes any kind of development for their relationship rushed or non-existent in VIII. The fight will be the first scene we get of them physically together in the movie, I think that's pretty logical to think. The first act will be the drum up to that. And the aftermath of the fight will be where the development (hopefully) happens.

I just wonder if they do explore a force bond between them, how they'll interpret it on screen? Will it be them hearing each other's voices in their heads? Will they edit the scenes very meticulously?

@nemapasara

Maybe visions, like the one Rey had when she touched the lightsaber.

@Piper Maru

@nemapasara

I've waivered abit on the Force Bond. It seems less likely now. BUT, I do believe they're still connected in some way, and maybe like Piper said, they'll have visions of each other. In a way, it's like a Force Bond, but not exactly like the textbook definition of it.

@Rei of Sunshine

The Force Bond is one of the elements that initially drew me to Reylo but I've also gotten the sense that they're not going to go there and I'm okay with it. I do love the idea that Kylo had the same vision that Rey had in TFA, that that's how they're connected. That their destinies are intertwined.

Piper Maru wrote:

nemapasara wrote:@Rei of Sunshine

I want to say that we're safe from that movie being an inspiration, but you never know!

I think it makes sense for Kylo to arrive on Ahch-to early on. I mean, if it was meant to be something that happens at the climax of the movie, than it makes any kind of development for their relationship rushed or non-existent in VIII. The fight will be the first scene we get of them physically together in the movie, I think that's pretty logical to think. The first act will be the drum up to that. And the aftermath of the fight will be where the development (hopefully) happens.

I just wonder if they do explore a force bond between them, how they'll interpret it on screen? Will it be them hearing each other's voices in their heads? Will they edit the scenes very meticulously?

@nemapasara

Maybe visions, like the one Rey had when she touched the lightsaber.

@Piper Maru

I think it will be through dreams. We took the kids to Disneyland last year and they participated in the Jedi Academy show, where Kylo Ren comes out at the end and for lack of a better word, tries to seduce a young Jedi woman to the dark side. But before then, she has the line, "Kylo Ren... he haunts my dreams." So if we're to take anything from the hints around Disneyland (signs that say "Go visit Kylo Ren at the Launch Bay and see if he can be redeemed", etc.), I do think it would be smart of the writers to do a sort of Dreamscape in TLJ (didn't they allude to having a shooting area that looked a lot like the Salt Flats?) or some sort of way for him to try and pry into where Rey is and mess with her mind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C24BJ_o-tHs

@RandomObserver

There's also that line in the novel where Rey says she's seen Kylo "in a daydream; a nightmare". The fact that she's possibly seen him in her dreams even before the vision makes me think the Force wanted them to meet in some way.

nemapasara wrote:@RandomObserver

There's also that line in the novel where Rey says she's seen Kylo "in a daydream; a nightmare". The fact that she's possibly seen him in her dreams even before the vision makes me think the Force wanted them to meet in some way.

@nemapasara

Exactly! To quote Dame Judi Dench, "What IS the deal with Reylo?" I didn't think it was possible to love that woman any more, but she proved me wrong. I do think dreams are a great way to play into it, especially if they're apart for the first half of the movie. And what ABOUT those daydreams, anyway?

RandomObserver wrote:

Piper Maru wrote:

nemapasara wrote:@Rei of Sunshine

I want to say that we're safe from that movie being an inspiration, but you never know!

I think it makes sense for Kylo to arrive on Ahch-to early on. I mean, if it was meant to be something that happens at the climax of the movie, than it makes any kind of development for their relationship rushed or non-existent in VIII. The fight will be the first scene we get of them physically together in the movie, I think that's pretty logical to think. The first act will be the drum up to that. And the aftermath of the fight will be where the development (hopefully) happens.

I just wonder if they do explore a force bond between them, how they'll interpret it on screen? Will it be them hearing each other's voices in their heads? Will they edit the scenes very meticulously?

@nemapasara

Maybe visions, like the one Rey had when she touched the lightsaber.

@Piper Maru

I think it will be through dreams. We took the kids to Disneyland last year and they participated in the Jedi Academy show, where Kylo Ren comes out at the end and for lack of a better word, tries to seduce a young Jedi woman to the dark side. But before then, she has the line, "Kylo Ren... he haunts my dreams." So if we're to take anything from the hints around Disneyland (signs that say "Go visit Kylo Ren at the Launch Bay and see if he can be redeemed", etc.), I do think it would be smart of the writers to do a sort of Dreamscape in TLJ (didn't they allude to having a shooting area that looked a lot like the Salt Flats?) or some sort of way for him to try and pry into where Rey is and mess with her mind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C24BJ_o-tHs

@RandomObserver

Omg, I want to see watch this show! It seems so interesting. And I really don't think it's random.

I was never a fan of the Force Bond from fanfics (Kylo and Rey talking and feeling everything each other felt through their minds), but I love the dreamscape scenario.

From previous discussions on here, dreamscape seems pretty high on the wish list for most of this board. Especially because one of RJ's early short films covers that topic about a couple who become involved via dreams, though

Spoiler:

. And the JJ affiliated show Fringe had a whole episode and motif about the female lead falling into the dreamworld of her partner/lover as part of a quest

nemapasara wrote:

Rei of Sunshine wrote:
@nemapasara

I've waivered abit on the Force Bond. It seems less likely now. BUT, I do believe they're still connected in some way, and maybe like Piper said, they'll have visions of each other. In a way, it's like a Force Bond, but not exactly like the textbook definition of it.

@Rei of Sunshine

The Force Bond is one of the elements that initially drew me to Reylo but I've also gotten the sense that they're not going to go there and I'm okay with it. I do love the idea that Kylo had the same vision that Rey had in TFA, that that's how they're connected. That their destinies are intertwined.

@nemapasara

I think the Force Bond or Force Connection is more likely now, especially since they've featured one in the Rebels cartoon between Ezra & Maul.... Maul even found Ezra and the Rebels location through it!

kroi wrote:

nemapasara wrote:

Rei of Sunshine wrote:
@nemapasara

I've waivered abit on the Force Bond. It seems less likely now. BUT, I do believe they're still connected in some way, and maybe like Piper said, they'll have visions of each other. In a way, it's like a Force Bond, but not exactly like the textbook definition of it.

@Rei of Sunshine

The Force Bond is one of the elements that initially drew me to Reylo but I've also gotten the sense that they're not going to go there and I'm okay with it. I do love the idea that Kylo had the same vision that Rey had in TFA, that that's how they're connected. That their destinies are intertwined.

@nemapasara

I think the Force Bond or Force Connection is more likely now, especially since they've featured one in the Rebels cartoon between Ezra & Maul.... Maul even found Ezra and the Rebels location through it!

@kroi

Kylo finding Ahch-To was something I always thought would happen, indirectly, because of Rey herself. They might have a Force Bond but they'll never call it that, it'll be a non-descript connection through the force akin to Luke and Leia in RotJ where they can transmit thoughts into each other's minds.

Yeah, I think odds are good TLJ is going to follow up on a unique connection/ ability Rey and Kylo have via the Force, even if it isn't called a Force bond (which I don't think it will be). Otherwise, I don't see why TFA emphasized Kylo's unique mind abilities through the Force or why Rey was able to do the same thing in the interrogation, or why both of them were able to get in each others' heads. What happened in the interrogation scene was pretty pivotal. It would be strange for TLJ to drop it, or fail to follow up on what it means or the repercussions of it.

While mind reading/probing Force abilities have been featured in other SW material, there seems to be more mystery and emphasis on these abilities in the ST (i.e. we know that the extent of Kylo's capacity when it comes to these kinds of powers is somewhat unique/different). So, what's the purpose of having both Kylo and Rey have these powers and use them on each other? That kind of strange, metaphysical connection sounds exactly like something Rian would use in one of his story. I would be very surprised if he didn't follow up on that.

I don't know if someone already posted this but it's from the Star Wars databank

From Kylo’s entry:

“Snoke warned Kylo that there had been an awakening in the Force, and his apprentice would face a test when he confronted his father. Kylo swore his loyalties were only to Snoke. But he was intrigued when he captured Rey, a Jakku scavenger whose Force abilities were raw but very powerful. A mysterious connection seemed to link the two.”

http://www.starwars.com/databank/kylo-ren

From Rey’s entry:

“On Takodana, Skywalker’s lightsaber called to Rey, who experienced a Force vision. She rejected this call to destiny, but was captured by the dark side warrior Kylo Ren with whom she shared a strange connection.”

http://www.starwars.com/databank/rey

"They might have a Force Bond but they'll never call it that, it'll be a non-descript connection through the force akin to Luke and Leia in RotJ where they can transmit thoughts into each other's minds."[/quote]
@nemapasara

I think it's going to be something like that, too. I don't think they'll call it Force Bond, but the fact remain that they've already been in each other's head and saw the other person's most intimate emotions and fears, and that's obviously something that binds them in an irreversible way. I think it will be something similar to a Force Bond and they just won't name it.

Mana wrote:I don't know if someone already posted this but it's from the Star Wars databank

From Kylo’s entry:

“Snoke warned Kylo that there had been an awakening in the Force, and his apprentice would face a test when he confronted his father. Kylo swore his loyalties were only to Snoke. But he was intrigued when he captured Rey, a Jakku scavenger whose Force abilities were raw but very powerful. A mysterious connection seemed to link the two.”

http://www.starwars.com/databank/kylo-ren

From Rey’s entry:

“On Takodana, Skywalker’s lightsaber called to Rey, who experienced a Force vision. She rejected this call to destiny, but was captured by the dark side warrior Kylo Ren with whom she shared a strange connection.”

http://www.starwars.com/databank/rey

Oh are these new? I thought TFA made this pretty clear but if not it's always nice to have an official verification

Mana wrote:I don't know if someone already posted this but it's from the Star Wars databank

From Kylo’s entry:

“Snoke warned Kylo that there had been an awakening in the Force, and his apprentice would face a test when he confronted his father. Kylo swore his loyalties were only to Snoke. But he was intrigued when he captured Rey, a Jakku scavenger whose Force abilities were raw but very powerful. A mysterious connection seemed to link the two.”

http://www.starwars.com/databank/kylo-ren

From Rey’s entry:

“On Takodana, Skywalker’s lightsaber called to Rey, who experienced a Force vision. She rejected this call to destiny, but was captured by the dark side warrior Kylo Ren with whom she shared a strange connection.”

http://www.starwars.com/databank/rey

@Mana

vaderito did in the Tweets thread. We're all going crazy over it!

But I've thought of something for a while and I'll bring it up now: remember the rumour that Luke wanted Rey to kill Kylo Ren? Since what we all suspected is now more or less confirmed (mysterious connection between Rey and Ren), what if Luke discovers this connection and feels threatened by it? What if he feels everyone is threatened by it and that Kylo could use Rey and that's why he orders her to kill him? But because of that connection, Rey has learned something about Kylo and is now sympathetic to him and is reluctant to kill him? What do you guys think?

Very horcruxy-like I know lol.

AppleCrumble122 wrote:

Mana wrote:I don't know if someone already posted this but it's from the Star Wars databank

From Kylo’s entry:

“Snoke warned Kylo that there had been an awakening in the Force, and his apprentice would face a test when he confronted his father. Kylo swore his loyalties were only to Snoke. But he was intrigued when he captured Rey, a Jakku scavenger whose Force abilities were raw but very powerful. A mysterious connection seemed to link the two.”

http://www.starwars.com/databank/kylo-ren

From Rey’s entry:

“On Takodana, Skywalker’s lightsaber called to Rey, who experienced a Force vision. She rejected this call to destiny, but was captured by the dark side warrior Kylo Ren with whom she shared a strange connection.”

http://www.starwars.com/databank/rey

@Mana

vaderito did in the Tweets thread. We're all going crazy over it!

But I've thought of something for a while and I'll bring it up now: remember the rumour that Luke wanted Rey to kill Kylo Ren? Since what we all suspected is now more or less confirmed (mysterious connection between Rey and Ren), what if Luke discovers this connection and feels threatened by it? What if he feels everyone is threatened by it and that Kylo could use Rey and that's why he orders her to kill him? But because of that connection, Rey has learned something about Kylo and is now sympathetic to him and is reluctant to kill him? What do you guys think?

Very horcruxy-like I know lol.

@AppleCrumble122

I'm TRYING to stay calm...but I just CAN'T!!!!!!
This news is just TOO good...

Re: Kylo's arrival on Ahch-To I've always pictured it after 45 minutes-1 hour from the movie start, too. I do expect another fight between Kylo and Rey after Kylo lands on the island because they'll still be enemies and Kylo will probably have the upper hand this time. But like TFA showed and like JJ said, their fate is not to kill each other. I think their fight will be interrupted by something again..in this sense a scene with Rey falling off the cliff always made sense to me, because if Kylo saves her that would force a truce between them and things between them could start moving on. Not only would Rey and the audience clearly understand that Kylo doesn't want to kill her (in case tfa didn't make that clear already) but it would also create a situation like "Ok, he's still an a*****e, but he also saved me. Now what?". But it's impossible to say at this point...one-sided or platonic Reylo never made sense to me based on what I saw in TFA so if things were that way I don't think they'll stay that way for a long time.

Ok, not as exciting as the Judi Dench/Star Wars databank stuff from today, but I thought that this tweet from SWNN was interesting. Not that any of us expected BdT to be playing Ezra, but the bit about how spoilers have been a lot more difficult to come by for the Star Wars news/blogging sites:

Couple of things I was thinking today: 1. Reading some regular Star Wars fan sites and the insistence that Rey is Luke's I am so hoping a official debunking will come in the next year. Ideally, summer so the outrage can die down by the time the movie comes out.

Two, after reading the bio information from the Star Wars page....I am kind of hoping that Kylo has already begun to reject Snoke. It would be nice if he turned on him at the end of this next movie. It would be something different....and not what most of the audience would expect.

Snoke promised Kylo Han's death would seal his descent into the dark. Instead it led to him becoming more conflicted.

This bodes very well for Kylo's redemption. Not only is it proof he isn't 'evil' - he still feels remorse - but also he now realises his god has feet of clay.

Without being aware of it Kylo has taken his first step back into the light. And it's interesting that the heroine's name is 'Rey'.....