The Last Jedi Trailer(s)

Reynak wrote:

Rogue Rey wrote:

IoJovi wrote:I love the left to right theory.  It makes sense because Ben is her future!!!  

@IoJovi

Wasn't there a whole left to right thing in Rey's Force vision in TFA - her past was her turning one way (left I think) and Kylo always appeared when she turned the other way (right?)??  Or am I dreaming that up????

As a leftie I never take offence when people talk about history or religion depicting leftness as 'wrong', especially as people I know still actually make a fuss about my handiness - which I am proud of given as only something like 10% of the world pop. are lefties.  I just know that in the past I'd have been dunked as a witch - given that I am left handed, blonde, have grey/blue eyes and fair skin.  Not confirming if I'd have survived tho!!!

@Rogue Rey

I think most of us would have been taken for witches in the old days, LOL. Witches were usually free spirited women and healers and there was nothing wrong with them but being different was seen as a problem then. They just didn't let people live their lives in peace.

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

SoloSideCousin wrote:

Rogue Rey wrote:

Birdwoman wrote:Kylo looks super focused and ready to fight Rey.  Unlike in the snow fight, where you could tell he didn't really want to fight her....now he does want his revenge.  We will see how long that lasts....

@Birdwoman

My guess about one whole minute!!!

@Rogue Rey

Yeah, I personally have always doubted the full-on revenge rumor.  He didn't have hate for her at the end and even if Snoke does a big job on him, his self-loathing is probably going to be off the charts.  This is the dude who yelled "harder.''  Now seeing the trailer and poster and BTS photos with his "mournful warrior" look and his personally smashed helmet and the sad look of him on the poster, I doubt it even more now.  For all we know he may even think as far that he deserved it.  But with the addition of the books in the trailer, my belief that he had a mission other than revenge on Luke when he was searching for the "path to Skywalker" has gotten stronger.

This picture tells me that he definitely has a run-in with Rey, but at the same time he doesn't seem to be seething with anger.  Instead, he seems very focused.  To me it says that he will not underestimate her again, he will not be distracted by her again, and he wants to get to those books above all and is definitely not interested in her blocking his way with another face slash.  I don't think he wants to kill her.  I think he wants her to get out of his way because he has bigger fish to fry, namely the books.  But of course, she's going to say something that really throws him.

Also, I think it's possible that this picture is not from the Rey fight either.  She's definitely there, because her lightsaber is in his eyes, but with all that fire, I really wonder if he is looking at Luke post-explosion.  You could interpret his very focused look as defensive as well.

Also, if there really is a second red lightsaber in this shot, then adding that to Rey's blue lightsaber, you could actually have three lightsabers, which could mean he and Rey might actually be on the same side and he could be defending her with utter focus.

There are just so many possibilities.

@SoloSideCousin

You're helping to confirm my belief that he's after those books.

I could see a scenario where he shows up on Ahch-To hell-bent on getting his hands on those books (which would explain him showing up alone in his TIE fighter, not officially sanctioned by the FO). For whatever reason, Luke is aware that Kylo is on his way and tells Rey to prevent Kylo from getting to those books at all cost--even if it means killing him. At this point, Rey has had her vision where she knows what really happened with Luke's temple, and she's not inclined to kill Kylo...although she's still going to try to prevent him from getting his hands on the books.

The scene with Kylo pointing the lightsaber could even be something like him saying to Rey, "Step aside, I'm not after you; I just want those books."

nemapasara wrote:I don't know if anyone's talked about this but that trailer was chock full of fire and water and I feel like this is something Rian's going to be playing with a lot, the use of natural elements to depict the mood throughout the movie. But it also reminded me of all the yin and yang talk. I may be talking nonsense but I've noticed a trend in Rey's and Kylo's energy based on the element they're in. Rey was at her most powerful during the snow fight. Kylo was his most powerful at the beginning of the movie, when he was surrounded by fire. If you look at the elements represented by yin and yang than you'd think that the opposite should be true. Starkiller Base was on a snow planet and drained the sun's energy to power their weapon. You'd think Kylo would be more in his element surrounded by snow but it's shown that it's when he's at his weakest. It's only when the sun completely goes out that he actually kills Han. So I find it interesting that it might start raining on Ahch-To when he arrives, it could be a hint that he's no longer in his element.

Rei of Sunshine wrote:@SoloSideCousin

About young Ben being the one interested in balancing the force, and Luke fearing it.

It goes well with what Han said in TFA. "One boy, destroyed it all."

I can imagine young starry eyed Ben feeling like a genius when he realizes that the Light and the Dark can work together. He enthusiastically presents that to his uncle and parents who are immediately taken aback and react without even listening to his explanations.

Leia: Gasp! No Ben! Not the Dark Side!
[size=42]Luke: It leads to nothing good Ben! It will corrupt you![/size]
[size=42]Han: Aaargh! There's too much Vader in him![/size]


[size=42]So Ben is shunned and treated with kid gloves and they tiptoe around him like he'll Force choke them any moment. And Snoke, having been in his head always, waiting for the perfect moment to strike uses this opportunity to coax Ben. [/size]


[size=42]Snoke: They won't listen to you? Tell me. They don't appreciate your discoveries? I will. They don't understand your power? Share it with me. [/size]

Perhaps Ben bends a little towards Snoke, but by the Vader reveal, he'll be convinced entirely that his family were liars and hypocrites and he leaves? Is kidnapped? However it happened, he has certainly changed his loyalties

Spoilers say that Snoke is a materialist only interested in power, but not really some learned Dark sider. Maybe he wants to have Ben, the only force user to utilize both Light and Dark, on his side and so he can use that power someday.

For the OT3, they believe Ben has fallen. They think that what little Ben may have learned of the Dark Side has led to the ruin of Luke's new order. Han thinks only of Vader. While Leia is hopeful but only understands the Light side of Ben. "There's still light it him." may sound like the most hopeful phrase, but it still shows how both parents misunderstood their son.

Luke becomes jaded and as everything falls apart, he leaves. Maybe to continue looking for the mysteries of the Force. Maybe despite his researching, he still hasn't accepted the idea of a balance between Light and Dark. And if Kylo introduces this to Rey and Luke walks in on that, then we get angry Luke.

SoloSideCousin wrote:

Rei of Sunshine wrote:@SoloSideCousin

About young Ben being the one interested in balancing the force, and Luke fearing it. 

It goes well with what Han said in TFA. "One boy, destroyed it all."

I can imagine young starry eyed Ben feeling like a genius when he realizes that the Light and the Dark can work together. He enthusiastically presents that to his uncle and parents who are immediately taken aback and react without even listening to his explanations.

Leia: Gasp! No Ben! Not the Dark Side! 
[size=42]Luke: It leads to nothing good Ben! It will corrupt you![/size]
[size=42]Han: Aaargh! There's too much Vader in him![/size]


[size=42]So Ben is shunned and treated with kid gloves and they tiptoe around him like he'll Force choke them any moment. And Snoke, having been in his head always, waiting for the perfect moment to strike uses this opportunity to coax Ben. [/size]


[size=42]Snoke: They won't listen to you? Tell me. They don't appreciate your discoveries? I will. They don't understand your power? Share it with me. [/size]

Perhaps Ben bends a little towards Snoke, but by the Vader reveal, he'll be convinced entirely that his family were liars and hypocrites and he leaves? Is kidnapped? However it happened, he has certainly changed his loyalties

Spoilers say that Snoke is a materialist only interested in power, but not really some learned Dark sider. Maybe he wants to have Ben, the only force user to utilize both Light and Dark, on his side and so he can use that power someday. 

For the OT3, they believe Ben has fallen. They think that what little Ben may have learned of the Dark Side has led to the ruin of Luke's new order. Han thinks only of Vader. While Leia is hopeful but only understands the Light side of Ben. "There's still light it him." may sound like the most hopeful phrase, but it still shows how both parents misunderstood their son.

Luke becomes jaded and as everything falls apart, he leaves. Maybe to continue looking for the mysteries of the Force. Maybe despite his researching, he still hasn't accepted the idea of a balance between Light and Dark. And if Kylo introduces this to Rey and Luke walks in on that, then we get angry Luke.

@Rei of Sunshine

Excellent thoughts on all of this. I could totally see some scenario like this happening, particularly if Kylo/Ben is more wizard/alchemist than warrior. With his tremendous mind powers, he perhaps could see things and make connections that Luke never could, even when young, and that would terrify the whole family and thus alienate him and push him to a waiting Snoke. But because Rey will be his mental equal, she will be able to "see things ... the balance" too. :-)

SanghaRen wrote:

nemapasara wrote:I don't know if anyone's talked about this but that trailer was chock full of fire and water and I feel like this is something Rian's going to be playing with a lot, the use of natural elements to depict the mood throughout the movie. But it also reminded me of all the yin and yang talk. I may be talking nonsense but I've noticed a trend in Rey's and Kylo's energy based on the element they're in. Rey was at her most powerful during the snow fight. Kylo was his most powerful at the beginning of the movie, when he was surrounded by fire. If you look at the elements represented by yin and yang than you'd think that the opposite should be true. Starkiller Base was on a snow planet and drained the sun's energy to power their weapon. You'd think Kylo would be more in his element surrounded by snow but it's shown that it's when he's at his weakest. It's only when the sun completely goes out that he actually kills Han. So I find it interesting that it might start raining on Ahch-To when he arrives, it could be a hint that he's no longer in his element.

@nemapasara

This made me smile because Kylo to me has a strong Scorpio vibe which element is water and Rey has an Aries vibe which element is fire. So even when you apply astrological vibes to it, it is strangely reversed

nemapasara wrote:

SanghaRen wrote:

nemapasara wrote:I don't know if anyone's talked about this but that trailer was chock full of fire and water and I feel like this is something Rian's going to be playing with a lot, the use of natural elements to depict the mood throughout the movie. But it also reminded me of all the yin and yang talk. I may be talking nonsense but I've noticed a trend in Rey's and Kylo's energy based on the element they're in. Rey was at her most powerful during the snow fight. Kylo was his most powerful at the beginning of the movie, when he was surrounded by fire. If you look at the elements represented by yin and yang than you'd think that the opposite should be true. Starkiller Base was on a snow planet and drained the sun's energy to power their weapon. You'd think Kylo would be more in his element surrounded by snow but it's shown that it's when he's at his weakest. It's only when the sun completely goes out that he actually kills Han. So I find it interesting that it might start raining on Ahch-To when he arrives, it could be a hint that he's no longer in his element.

@nemapasara

This made me smile because Kylo to me has a strong Scorpio vibe which element is water and Rey has an Aries vibe which element is fire. So even when you apply astrological vibes to it, it is strangely reversed

@SanghaRen

if you look at yin (the water element), it is considered dark, cold and negative. Yang (the fire element), is considered light, sunny and positive. Where Kylo and Rey fit seems pretty clear but it's so interesting that they both are at their highest peaks in the other's element. It really is like a reverse and shows to me that Rey and Kylo are the two pieces when they talk about the balance between light and dark.

motherofpearl1 wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

SoloSideCousin wrote:

Rogue Rey wrote:

Birdwoman wrote:Kylo looks super focused and ready to fight Rey.  Unlike in the snow fight, where you could tell he didn't really want to fight her....now he does want his revenge.  We will see how long that lasts....

@Birdwoman

My guess about one whole minute!!!

@Rogue Rey

Yeah, I personally have always doubted the full-on revenge rumor.  He didn't have hate for her at the end and even if Snoke does a big job on him, his self-loathing is probably going to be off the charts.  This is the dude who yelled "harder.''  Now seeing the trailer and poster and BTS photos with his "mournful warrior" look and his personally smashed helmet and the sad look of him on the poster, I doubt it even more now.  For all we know he may even think as far that he deserved it.  But with the addition of the books in the trailer, my belief that he had a mission other than revenge on Luke when he was searching for the "path to Skywalker" has gotten stronger.

This picture tells me that he definitely has a run-in with Rey, but at the same time he doesn't seem to be seething with anger.  Instead, he seems very focused.  To me it says that he will not underestimate her again, he will not be distracted by her again, and he wants to get to those books above all and is definitely not interested in her blocking his way with another face slash.  I don't think he wants to kill her.  I think he wants her to get out of his way because he has bigger fish to fry, namely the books.  But of course, she's going to say something that really throws him.

Also, I think it's possible that this picture is not from the Rey fight either.  She's definitely there, because her lightsaber is in his eyes, but with all that fire, I really wonder if he is looking at Luke post-explosion.  You could interpret his very focused look as defensive as well.

Also, if there really is a second red lightsaber in this shot, then adding that to Rey's blue lightsaber, you could actually have three lightsabers, which could mean he and Rey might actually be on the same side and he could be defending her with utter focus.

There are just so many possibilities.

@SoloSideCousin

You're helping to confirm my belief that he's after those books.

I could see a scenario where he shows up on Ahch-To hell-bent on getting his hands on those books (which would explain him showing up alone in his TIE fighter, not officially sanctioned by the FO). For whatever reason, Luke is aware that Kylo is on his way and tells Rey to prevent Kylo from getting to those books at all cost--even if it means killing him. At this point, Rey has had her vision where she knows what really happened with Luke's temple, and she's not inclined to kill Kylo...although she's still going to try to prevent him from getting his hands on the books.

The scene with Kylo pointing the lightsaber could even be something like him saying to Rey, "Step aside, I'm not after you; I just want those books."

@ISeeAnIsland

The way he's holding the lightsabre looks as if he's pointing it as something/someone rather than threatening to attack - he held it in the same way when he told Finn to give him Anakin's lightsabre.

motherofpearl1 wrote:I think...
Perhaps it's time for the Skywalkers to find a chance at a life for themselves rather than 'saving the galaxy.'

Perhaps Ben Solo can find a place for Ben, not for the child of Leia, the nephew of Luke, the grandson of Anakin.
Perhaps Rey can find a family and home in a person.

When the fighting's done perhaps Rey and Ben can leave rebuilding the galaxy to 'nobodies' like Finn,Rose and Poe. People who need to become legends.

Then the last Skywalker and the last Kenobi can save themselves and have the ordinary life they so desperately need.

Darth Dingbat wrote:I've started to wonder...

The rain scene in the Forceback isn't from the "Jedi massacre", but now I wonder whether it might allude to a scene that revisits the same place.

I originally thought it was the future, and on Ahch-To, as the rocky landscape looks similar, AND there's rain, AND the thingy in the background might be the tree. Plus, we know Kylo is coming to Ahch-To anyhow.

But looking at that burning building in the teaser, the thingy in the background might easily be the ruins of it. And the terrain looks similar to Ahch-To, but flatter, as in the Forceback. (I call it just a "building" because it's still just an assumption that the large palace-like structure was "Luke's Jedi temple", just like it was an assumption that Luke had a "Jedi academy", which Pablo implied was not the case.)

Perhaps they revisit the scene of the disaster for some reason? Perhaps there's something important there? And might that be the Iceland planet, I wonder?

If we see the same place years after the disaster, that might also explain why some people see just rocks on the ground in the vision, some see bodies, and some (well, okay, just me probably) see weird forms like broken statues among the rocks. They might be petrified or mummified bodies of some sort, like on Malachor. Something weird happened in that massacre - that building wasn't just burnt down, it looks more like the place was bombed.

I still think the right => future thing makes sense, and I definitely think we'll see that scene in some form - salad bowl and all. We'll recognise what that vision was alluding to, IMO; or if that vision was just a mash-up of random past events that don't have any crucial bearing on the story, then it seems rather pointless.

Darth Dingbat wrote:@Reylo4life: That's right!

ETA: That's the clearest shot I've ever seen of that scene! Wow.

Reylo4life wrote:

Darth Dingbat wrote:@Reylo4life: That's right!

ETA: That's the clearest shot I've ever seen of that scene! Wow.

@Darth Dingbat

If it was the future who is that guy that kylo kills with the strange Helmet and why would he be on Ahch-To? Maybe its a mash up vision? Or maybe it's not Ahch-To at all but regardless the blue lightsaber "saw"/was present when Kylo Ren stabbed that man with the hat/clan leader/whatever he is.

Darth_Awakened wrote:Funny enough I did thought today about the salad bowl: how he would  fit eventually in the Force plot given the new info.

I didn't came to any conclusion. He still confuses me.

Darth_Awakened wrote:Funny enough I did thought today about the salad bowl: how he would fit eventually in the Force plot given the new info.

I didn't came to any conclusion. He still confuses me.

Darth Dingbat wrote:

Darth_Awakened wrote:Funny enough I did thought today about the salad bowl: how he would  fit eventually in the Force plot given the new info.

I didn't came to any conclusion. He still confuses me.

@Darth_Awakened

As he's supposed to, I'm sure

ETA: All the more reason that the scene should have some real significance in the future, IMO. All the other scenes are easier to comprehend.