Discussions: Tweets/Instagram

snufkin wrote:She managed to knock both Han and Finn out of their self protective trajectories and not even that much by design. Meeting and becoming friends with her forced both of them to face the thing they were trying to run from and step up. For Finn, that was to take on the FO and Kylo and for Han, it was The to return to the person he "used to be," a husband and a father. She's very good at influencing people and taking the lead, even without Jedi mind tricks. Next up will be Luke and Ben, who likely are more stubborn and easy going than Han and Finn were. And neither will be an easy immediate connection of friends who have common cause. She has/had for more in common with Han that made them immediate friends than likely she will with Luke. And with Kylo, much potential if they don't kill each other and he gets his head outta his a**. And that's on top of the s**t she's going to have to figure out about either her parents meant to come back and something bad Haiti them or that they dumped her and lied to her.

@snufkin

I agree entirely with the bolded part. Rey's main "ability" is how she influences people to face what they want to deny the most.

Finn was "forced" to tell her the truth about his past as a stormtrooper despite the fact that he was running away from everything. He also went back to the place he swore he would never go back to because he wanted to help her.

Han was "forced" to meet Leia again after years and talk to his son.

Kylo was "forced" to feel compassion (i.e. going easy on her on the interrogation, asking to be her teacher) after years trying to run away from the light.

I can't wait to see how her influence over Kylo will continue to play out in the sequel trilogy.

Yeah, she'll help that poor Luke... She's her nurse. #RukeMatters

Edit: *his

DarthRen wrote:A bit of hints, foreshadowing, parallels in TFA posters, what could this all mean for the future?  

@DarthRen

I'm sure this has been pointed out, but I just noticed that in the first poster, Kylo and Rey's weapons are aligned and their hands/bodies are turned toward each other.

Piper Maru wrote:

snufkin wrote:She managed to knock both Han and Finn out of their self protective trajectories and not even that much by design. Meeting and becoming friends with her forced both of them to face the thing they were trying to run from and step up. For Finn, that was to take on the FO and Kylo and for Han, it was The to return to the person he "used to be," a husband and a father. She's very good at influencing people and taking the lead, even without Jedi mind tricks. Next up will be Luke and Ben, who likely are more stubborn and easy going than Han and Finn were. And neither will be an easy immediate connection of friends who have common cause. She has/had for more in common with Han that made them immediate friends than likely she will with Luke. And with Kylo, much potential if they don't kill each other and he gets his head outta his a**. And that's on top of the s**t she's going to have to figure out about either her parents meant to come back and something bad Haiti them or that they dumped her and lied to her.

@snufkin

I agree entirely with the bolded part. Rey's main "ability" is how she influences people to face what they want to deny the most.

Finn was "forced" to tell her the truth about his past as a stormtrooper despite the fact that he was running away from everything. He also went back to the place he swore he would never go back to because he wanted to help her.

Han was "forced" to meet Leia again after years and talk to his son.

Kylo was "forced" to feel compassion (i.e. going easy on her on the interrogation, asking to be her teacher) after years trying to run away from the light.

I can't wait to see how her influence over Kylo will continue to play out in the sequel trilogy.

@Piper Maru

That's one of the most interesting parts of how both the character and story are written, especially because it all happens in tandem with Rey finally being forced to acknowledge the thing she wants to deny the most. That nobody was coming back for her on Jakku and that she's on her own without any connection/belonging to other people. Which TFA takes baby steps in her friendship with Finn and the "Koi No Yokan" she shares with Kylo, whatever that turns out to be.

That ability is also what really should make somebody like Snoke see her as a threat, because it's not even Jedi Mind Tricks, but good leadership and influencing people without overt force or leverage.

snufkin wrote:
@Piper Maru

That's one of the most interesting parts of how both the character and story are written, especially because it all happens in tandem with Rey finally being forced to acknowledge the thing she wants to deny the most. That nobody was coming back for her on Jakku and that she's on her own without any connection/belonging to other people. Which TFA takes baby steps in her friendship with Finn and the "Koi No Yokan" she shares with Kylo, whatever that turns out to be.

That ability is also what really should make somebody like Snoke see her as a threat, because it's not even Jedi Mind Tricks, but good leadership and influencing people without overt force or leverage.

@snufkin

What a beautiful phrase.  I had to look that up, of course, because reading this forum makes me feel like I basically know nothing of literature, film, or culture...but anyway, this is what I found for the definition:

The sense one can have upon first meeting a person that the two of you are going to fall in love. Differs from “love at first sight” as it does not imply that the feeling of love exists, only the knowledge that a future love is inevitable.

I think that speaks very well to what Kylo and Rey see in each other in TFA, whether they like it or not.

@Casper - Full credit goes to @Piper Maru for introducing that term to the discussion! But it's a good term about that inexplicable/hard to articulate whatever that's going on between the two of them that we hope gets explored more.

And you're fine, this place is a super nerdy book club discussion for people with open minds and curiosity beyond the Pew Pew Pew stuff. Just lacking the snacks and booze because we're all in different parts of the world.

snufkin wrote:@Casper - Full credit goes to @Piper Maru for introducing that term to the discussion! But it's a good term about that inexplicable/hard to articulate whatever that's going on between the two of them that we hope gets explored more.

And you're fine, this place is a super nerdy book club discussion for people with open minds and curiosity beyond the Pew Pew Pew stuff. Just lacking the snacks and booze because we're all in different parts of the world.

@snufkin

Wait—no snacks or booze?!  WTH?

Lol, thanks.  I'll catch on after a while.

@Casper

Welcome to the forums!

@snufkin

What Rian said last week about challenging the characters to their breaking points really interested me, because I think we already saw the beginning of their trials in The Force Awakens. I think The Last Jedi will be the story that pushes makes them TRULY question their beliefs.

Rey will probably find the truth about her parents and it's not going to be pretty. Finn will return to the FO in some capacity and it'll be even more extreme than just disabling the shields. Kylo will feel the pull to the light more than ever. And Luke (and probably Leia) are going to deal with their mistakes when it comes to Ben.

Piper Maru wrote:@Casper

Welcome to the forums!

@snufkin

What Rian said last week about challenging the characters to their breaking points really interested me, because I think we already saw the beginning of their trials in The Force Awakens. I think The Last Jedi will be the story that pushes makes them TRULY question their beliefs.

Rey will probably find the truth about her parents and it's not going to be pretty. Finn will return to the FO in some capacity and it'll be even more extreme than just disabling the shields. Kylo will feel the pull to the light more than ever. And Luke (and probably Leia) are going to deal with their mistakes when it comes to Ben.

@Piper Maru

Thanks!

I'd love to believe we're going to see Luke and Leia together in VIII, but I keep feeling we won't.  A scene or two at least would be nice.  After all, Han and Leia didn't get any more than that in VII, and they managed to convey a lot with very little dialogue.  Luke and Leia have things they need to discuss as well, and I get the feeling they haven't really talked since things went south at Jedi Camp.  Like I said, I'm crossing my fingers for this, but I'm doubtful.

Piper Maru wrote:@Casper

Welcome to the forums!

@snufkin

What Rian said last week about challenging the characters to their breaking points really interested me, because I think we already saw the beginning of their trials in The Force Awakens. I think The Last Jedi will be the story that pushes makes them TRULY question their beliefs.

Rey will probably find the truth about her parents and it's not going to be pretty. Finn will return to the FO in some capacity and it'll be even more extreme than just disabling the shields. Kylo will feel the pull to the light more than ever. And Luke (and probably Leia) are going to deal with their mistakes when it comes to Ben.

@Piper Maru

BIB: Same here!

I think that Rey's biggest challenge seems the most obvious--it'll be some truth about her parents. With Kylo, I think that Adam's "patricide isn't all it's cracked up to be" is probably a clue--I think he'll continue to be torn and at some point, he'll need to face that Han was right, and that Snoke is just using him.

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

Piper Maru wrote:@Casper

Welcome to the forums!

@snufkin

What Rian said last week about challenging the characters to their breaking points really interested me, because I think we already saw the beginning of their trials in The Force Awakens. I think The Last Jedi will be the story that pushes makes them TRULY question their beliefs.

Rey will probably find the truth about her parents and it's not going to be pretty. Finn will return to the FO in some capacity and it'll be even more extreme than just disabling the shields. Kylo will feel the pull to the light more than ever. And Luke (and probably Leia) are going to deal with their mistakes when it comes to Ben.

@Piper Maru

BIB: Same here!

I think that Rey's biggest challenge seems the most obvious--it'll be some truth about her parents.  With Kylo, I think that Adam's "patricide isn't all it's cracked up to be" is probably a clue--I think he'll continue to be torn and at some point, he'll need to face that Han was right, and that Snoke is just using him.

@ISeeAnIsland

Agreed. Maz actually started the process of kicking the stool out from underneath her, just that she freaked out, ran out into the woods in a panic, and before she could even start to come to grips with it, along comes Kylo with all of his high maintenance issues for her to deal with. Because we'll likely never see the conversation between her and Leia, we can only guess what was discussed about the men in Leia's family, whatever Rey told her about herself, and the eventual justification for sending Rey off to Ache-to to retrieve Luke's depressed a**.  But she's gonna have a lot of time alone on a remote island with a weird hermit who's been alone for 6 years and that's a lot of down time for the "maybe they dumped me and lied about it to be kind" or "maybe they planned on coming back but something bad happened to them" thoughts she's been keeping at bay. Which TBH, she likely wouldn't have survived that type of childhood in a place like that without having something to look forward to, even if it turns out to be a complete lie. But anybody expecting that she's gonna move right along in the grief process the way Luke seemed to be totes okay with seeing the burning corpses of his murdered aunt and uncle, is gonna be in for a surprise. She may have jumped into this new adventure as a way of keeping all of her emotional trauma and issues at bay, but it's gonna blow up in her face in that situation. Especially if one of the shocking truths she learns is that hey, maybe Mr Super Chill Cool Jedi Knight Dude did some not okay things which hurt the nephew he was supposed to be taking care of and detroyed his family. Family is clearly one of her core values and if she starts to see how certain actions/lies caused Ben Solo to become Kylo Ren, that's gotta sway her opinion both of Luke and that family in a different direction than she probably anticipated.

It's always possible that the combination of powerful af kid left behind in place where people either get dumped or go to hide could mean, not so nice parents. Or the theory floated here that it could be an actual fairy tale motif of a child that's abandoned in the wood to die, but survives.

@Casper - There have been occasions where some members enjoy reading/posting while drinking after a long week at work, but it's strictly BYOB around here!

@Piper Maru - I really hope that the meat of their time in the story is together, because how better to be tested than to be trapped with each other? She will be wearing her hair more down and a somewhat form fitting shirt with supportive undergarments that sparked Boobgate, that could be part of his test, hahaha!

snufkin wrote:
@Casper - There have been occasions where some members enjoy reading/posting while drinking after a long week at work, but it's strictly BYOB around here!

@snufkin
Probably for the best.  Mine has to be gluten free anyway.

I think this is a fun place I've found.  And I can discuss all this (potential) romantic stuff as it pertains to SW without people going, "Ew!  Icky."

Mana wrote:Wait...so Rey is special because she's supposed to be Luke Skywalker's muse?!?!?!
I...Just...

@Mana

well, that's one way to look at it...

*whispers insiduously* RUUUUKE

Man, I wish there was more Ruke fan fiction and fan art, lol.

Here is a Tweet by Pablo from last year that I'd been meaning to dig up since the title of The Last Jedi came out:



The more I think about it  the more it seems that "It is time for the Jedi to end" is really just a dramatic way of saying they need to evolve.

snufkin wrote:@Casper - Full credit goes to @Piper Maru for introducing that term to the discussion! But it's a good term about that inexplicable/hard to articulate whatever that's going on between the two of them that we hope gets explored more.

@snufkin

Aw, and I felt so clever for mentioning it in the Reylo playlist thread yesterday. XD
I'd actually never heard of koi no yokan until I saw it mentioned in a Tumblr post a few days ago; agreed, it is definitely quintessential Reylo. If you think about Kylo Ren's entry in the Star Wars Databank mentioning he sensed their destinies were intertwined and wondered how, the koi no yokan is just oozing out all over the place. XD Will check out @Piper Maru's post about it.

Mana wrote:Wait...so Rey is special because she's supposed to be Luke Skywalker's muse?!?!?!
I...Just...

@Mana

I would hope it doesn't translate to, "Rey is a special golden girl sprinkling dust on the male characters around her, who actually get to have interesting character arcs".

Darth Rowan wrote:
@snufkin

Aw, and I felt so clever for mentioning it in the Reylo playlist thread yesterday. XD
I'd actually never heard of koi no yokan until I saw it mentioned in a Tumblr post a few days ago; agreed, it is definitely quintessential Reylo. If you think about Kylo Ren's entry in the Star Wars Databank mentioning he sensed their destinies were intertwined and wondered how, the koi no yokan is just oozing out all over the place. XD Will check out @Piper Maru's post about it.

@Darth Rowan

Who cares about Reylo, just think about the Scrabble and Words with Friends possibilities for that term.

@Caspar - no judgement here about discussing romance. Some people wanna talk about it, some people are interested in more metaphysical aspects, it's all good.

Rey as muse, dear God please no. She's good at influencing people, for sure. But all of the fans who had originally thought Reywalker because of their nostalgia goggles seemed to have pivoted that scenario to substitute daughter and inspiration/muse to get Luke back in the fight. Like they're going to keep trying until ultimately disproved by the story. Which first off, he had the OT and the ST should be about the newer characters. Don't shortchange her character and story in service of nostalgia. Which the whole warning that "sometimes you meet your heroes and they aren't what you expect" seems like a big 'ol meta comment for those fans - they may have her as a stand-in for those fans, but it's not going to be Luke's masterclass in Light Saber Technique and autograph signing session.

Whoops, looks like I double posted the same thing. Lol sorry guys.

If one approaches Star Wars just as a mundane sci-fi story then Rey's role as muse will be all one may perceive. Rey's role as protagonist is in a "Star Wars fairy tale" wrapped in mythological symbolism.

"…And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as THE SON OF THE SUNS."
―Journal of the Whills, 3:127[src]

Who are these Son of Suns? In Star Wars it is always the Skywalker men... this is telegraphed by their symbolism in the movie

Luke & Twin Suns


Anakin - The Sun surrounded by the twelve months of the year aka "jedi" council



Kylo- Ben - the Dying Sun - or the Sun as it heads into the decreasing light or months  July, August, September, October & November. Which the anagram for is Jason or Jacen Solo - Darth Cadeus From the Eu



These words "Chosen One"  "Redeemed" Also always refer to the Skywalker men. Despite each Skywalker, representing the "sun" their heroic journeys are always personalized through the drama of the play.

What role does Obi Wan Kenobi play in the story/myth about  "The Chosen one" he his the sign/harbinger/age in which the Sun/chosen one appears. He prepares the way. Why is John the Baptist the sign/harbinger why this motif... We are in the coming age of Aquarius, the water bearer



Carl Jung qoute on the platonic month of Aquarius

the approach of the next Platonic month, namely Aquarius, will constellate the problem of the union of opposites. It will then no longer be possible to write off evil as the mere privation of good; its real existence will have to be recognized. This problem can be solved… only by the individual human being, via his experience of the living spirit, whose fire… was handed onward into the future….”

                                                                                               Jung (1959)[2]

http://jungiancenter.org/jungs-platonic-month-and-the-age-of-aquarius/


We already have a spoiler that Rey will be captured and imprisoned by the end of TLJ

After Jesus visits John the Baptist who baptizes him with water, John the Baptist is put "in prison" (Mat. 4:12).

So Rey still has her own heroic journey no matter what she represents mythologically or in relation to Skywalkers. The mythological heroic story is always humanized. Just like Hercules and his 12 labors aka the Sun traveling through the twelve months in the year. Obi wan's story is not a beat for beat story telling John the Baptist and neither with Rey's be a beat for beat story telling, it will be adapted

Darth Rowan wrote:Man, I wish there was more Ruke fan fiction and fan art, lol.

Here is a Tweet by Pablo from last year that I'd been meaning to dig up since the title of The Last Jedi came out:



The more I think about it  the more it seems that "It is time for the Jedi to end" is really just a dramatic way of saying they need to evolve.

snufkin wrote:@Casper - Full credit goes to @Piper Maru for introducing that term to the discussion! But it's a good term about that inexplicable/hard to articulate whatever that's going on between the two of them that we hope gets explored more.

@snufkin

Aw, and I felt so clever for mentioning it in the Reylo playlist thread yesterday. XD
I'd actually never heard of koi no yokan until I saw it mentioned in a Tumblr post a few days ago; agreed, it is definitely quintessential Reylo. If you think about Kylo Ren's entry in the Star Wars Databank mentioning he sensed their destinies were intertwined and wondered how, the koi no yokan is just oozing out all over the place. XD Will check out @Piper Maru's post about it.

@Darth Rowan

Haha I learned the word because I'm a huge Deftones fan and "Koi No Yokan" is the title of one of their recent albums.

Honestly, it's the perfect word to describe Kylo's conflicted feelings towards Rey. It describes the sense of fate and the notion that your future is tied with this other person you know nothing about. Destinies intertwined, indeed.

So about this old tweet, everyone seems to be talking about right now:



1. As far as I can remember Matt Martin posted this, before he became part of the story group. He even said back then that he didn't know where the story would go, otherwise he wouldn't be allowed to post anything (I think he worked for starwars.com before that). So, I think it's just his personal opinion.

2. Here's the link to the whole conversation https://twitter.com/missingwords/status/681588025944481792

I assumed he was pretty pissed, that everyone tried to make Rey a Skywalker to make her special and it was one his suggestions (out of many) that she could be special because she has the power to bring Luke back.

No need to worry, I guess.

EchoBase wrote:So about this old tweet, everyone seems to be talking about right now:



1. As far as I can remember Matt Martin posted this, before he became of the story group. He even said back then that he didn't know where the story would go, otherwise he wouldn't be allowed to post anything (I think he worked for starwars.com before that). So, I think it's just his personal opinion.

2. Here's the link to the whole conversation https://twitter.com/missingwords/status/681588025944481792

I assumed he was pretty pissed, that everyone tried to make Rey a Skywalker to make her special and it was one his suggestions (out of many) that she could be special because she has the power to bring Luke back.

No need to worry, I guess.

@EchoBase

I don't think this is so bad....in the OT, Luke also brought his father back and yet he performed many heroic deeds for the rebellion as well...similarly, maybe Rey has to fulfill what Maz said- that Luke could come back. There is obviously some misunderstanding between Luke Kylo...bringing Luke back might initiate the dialogue between Luke and Kylo, and resolve the rift in the Skywalker family. While completing this mission, Rey can always do other heroic deeds for the resistance against the FO.

panki wrote:

EchoBase wrote:So about this old tweet, everyone seems to be talking about right now:



1. As far as I can remember Matt Martin posted this, before he became of the story group. He even said back then that he didn't know where the story would go, otherwise he wouldn't be allowed to post anything (I think he worked for starwars.com before that). So, I think it's just his personal opinion.

2. Here's the link to the whole conversation https://twitter.com/missingwords/status/681588025944481792

I assumed he was pretty pissed, that everyone tried to make Rey a Skywalker to make her special and it was one his suggestions (out of many) that she could be special because she has the power to bring Luke back.

No need to worry, I guess.

@EchoBase

I don't think this is so bad....in the OT, Luke also brought his father back and yet he performed many heroic deeds for the rebellion as well...similarly, maybe Rey has to fulfill what Maz said- that Luke could come back. There is obviously some misunderstanding between Luke Kylo...bringing Luke back might initiate the dialogue between Luke and Kylo, and resolve the rift in the Skywalker family. While completing this mission, Rey can always do other heroic deeds for the resistance against the FO.

@panki

I agree - I'm not really bothered by this tweet either.  Every character has a chance to give another a nudge, every now and then.  Case and point, my husband read me a really funny article yesterday about how Chewie is really the true protagonist/hero in both the PT, OT and ST.  In the PT, he SAVES Yoda, which in turn allows Luke to be trained in the OT.  In the OT, he's responsible for getting the OT3 out of every bind imaginable, including taking over an AT-ST on Endor and essentially ending that battle.  In TFA, he rescues Rey and Finn from an exploding SKB.  Had both of them gone down, particularly Rey - boom! No more ST.  Obviously Chewie isn't the main protagonist, but it sure as heck looks that way!  

I guess my point is that protagonists aren't always the ones saving the day, sometimes that can go to more minor characters and vice versa. I think in the case of Rey's journey, it's that journey that's most important - not the outcome.

IoJovi wrote:

panki wrote:

EchoBase wrote:So about this old tweet, everyone seems to be talking about right now:



1. As far as I can remember Matt Martin posted this, before he became of the story group. He even said back then that he didn't know where the story would go, otherwise he wouldn't be allowed to post anything (I think he worked for starwars.com before that). So, I think it's just his personal opinion.

2. Here's the link to the whole conversation https://twitter.com/missingwords/status/681588025944481792

I assumed he was pretty pissed, that everyone tried to make Rey a Skywalker to make her special and it was one his suggestions (out of many) that she could be special because she has the power to bring Luke back.

No need to worry, I guess.

@EchoBase

I don't think this is so bad....in the OT, Luke also brought his father back and yet he performed many heroic deeds for the rebellion as well...similarly, maybe Rey has to fulfill what Maz said- that Luke could come back. There is obviously some misunderstanding between Luke Kylo...bringing Luke back might initiate the dialogue between Luke and Kylo, and resolve the rift in the Skywalker family. While completing this mission, Rey can always do other heroic deeds for the resistance against the FO.

@panki

I agree - I'm not really bothered by this tweet either.  Every character has a chance to give another a nudge, every now and then.  Case and point, my husband read me a really funny article yesterday about how Chewie is really the true protagonist/hero in both the PT, OT and ST.  In the PT, he SAVES Yoda, which in turn allows Luke to be trained in the OT.  In the OT, he's responsible for getting the OT3 out of every bind imaginable, including taking over an AT-ST on Endor and essentially ending that battle.  In TFA, he rescues Rey and Finn from an exploding SKB.  Had both of them gone down, particularly Rey - boom! No more ST.  Obviously Chewie isn't the main protagonist, but it sure as heck looks that way!  

I guess my point is that protagonists aren't always the ones saving the day, sometimes that can go to more minor characters and vice versa. I think in the case of Rey's journey, it's that journey that's most important - not the outcome.

@IoJovi

I agree with you, @panki and @Echobase and everything you're saying here. I actually looked at the tweet in a different kind of way and actually kind of liked it as a result. On my first reading of it, it looked like an acknowledgement that Luke had a screwed up somehow, that he was on the "wrong path". Having a perfect Luke doesn't help the cause of Kyle's redemption at all. But if Luke is on the "wrong path ", then the chance that he holds some fault in Kylo' s fall goes up, this maybe giving Kylo some kind of reasoning for his behavior beyond "I hate my perfect uncle and wanna be dark!"

Also, to me this statement fits really well with the poster. Rey is portrayed as a mediator between the two Skywalker men on that poster. She is featured in similar ways to Luke in OT posters, a small person trying to have an effect on overwhelming power. And we know that Luke ended up saving everything. IMO, part of her "saving everything" is going to straightening out these two Skywalker men so they both see clearly. I mean maybe that makes her too part and parcel of the Skywalker, but it doesn't bother me because a lot of people have tried and failed to get this tormented family on track, and if she is the "outside voice of reason " who actually succeeds, that is a pretty big deal IMO, because when this particular family is a mess, they tend to take the whole galaxy down with them.

RE Matt Martin tweet. Lol, shocking that Luke's saber would choose Rey for that, not because she's mah baby girl.

Anyone have that tweet at hand from Pablo where he says that force ghosts are not all knowing?