Discussions: Tweets/Instagram

Saracene wrote:

Darth Dingbat wrote:She might have been a simple farmgirl leading a modest and comfortable, if dull, life, who turns out to have an important destiny that demands sacrifices from her (Luke, Frodo, etc). She might have been a haughty princess who learns the path of humility, renunciation and selflessness as a Jedi. She might have been a reluctant heir to some great destiny who learns how to be the leader she was meant to be. And so on, and so on. There are a zillion things Rey might have been at the start of her journey.

But instead, she comes from the same "family" as Oliver Twist, Jane Eyre, Harry Potter - orphan heroes suffering extreme deprivation, deprived of love as well as life's bare necessities as children and adolescents. When such characters get a happy ending, they tend to get exactly what they were once deprived of. It is rare that a happy ending for such a hero doesn't involve getting a "real" family unit. At the moment, I can't think of any examples who didn't. (Though I'm sure there are some.) In its purest fairytale form, a happy ending of this kind would involve both family and riches.

@Darth Dingbat

I think though that what muddies the waters with Rey is that none of the other stories mentioned made a mystery of their protagonist's heritage, they were unambigously orphans. Harry learns about how his parents really died early on in the first book. Whereas with Rey, we're one third into her story and we don't even know with 100% assurance that her parents are dead (though it's extremely likely). She could have been a simple orphan, but she's not and there's obviously some story there. Not knowing what that story is, it's hard to know what's really ahead for Rey. It could be about giving her a personal motive against Snoke, it could be about her destined to do or be something, etc. We don't know yet what's her place in the Force!universe and what importance her Force abilities are going to play in her life. At the moment she's just mostly bewildered by them.

Also, while we can gather from the bits about TLJ that Luke is going to disappoint Rey in some way, I very much doubt that Luke's role will stop at Disappointing Teacher, the end. I'm pretty sure that the dynamic between Luke and Rey will evolve somehow just like her dynamic with Kylo will.

@Saracene

I mean, for all intents and purposes Rey is an orphan. In a way it doesn't matter that we don't know the whole story yet (like HP, we don't get the whole story until Deathly Hallows) so the 'mystery' doesn't faze me. Especially since the mystery is blown way out of proportion, imo. We know she was left alone, that she has been waiting for her family, that wise Maz told her belonging was ahead, that she bonded with Finn, Han and Leia. All this doesn't make me think a life of asceticism is in the cards.

Moonjump05 wrote:I mean, for all intents and purposes Rey is an orphan.  In a way it doesn't matter that we don't know the whole story yet (like HP, we don't get the whole story until Deathly Hallows)  so the 'mystery' doesn't faze me.  Especially since the mystery is blown way out of proportion, imo.  We know she was left alone, that she has been waiting for her family, that wise Maz told her belonging was ahead, that she bonded with Finn, Han and Leia.  All this doesn't make me think a life of asceticism is in the cards.

@Moonjump05

Oh I agree that a detached monastic life is hardly to be Rey's future. I just don't necessarily think that it means marriage and kids at the end of the trilogy, either.

Unless this series breaks with the tradition and does a Harry Potter-like epilogue that jumps a few years ahead. I was actually thinking that the last movie could end with Rey and Kylo parting immediately after Snoke's defeat, and then show "a year later" and end with an emotional reunion between them. And then the last screen says something like, and then they didn't get out of bed for three weeks.

Saracene wrote:

Darth Dingbat wrote:She might have been a simple farmgirl leading a modest and comfortable, if dull, life, who turns out to have an important destiny that demands sacrifices from her (Luke, Frodo, etc). She might have been a haughty princess who learns the path of humility, renunciation and selflessness as a Jedi. She might have been a reluctant heir to some great destiny who learns how to be the leader she was meant to be. And so on, and so on. There are a zillion things Rey might have been at the start of her journey.

But instead, she comes from the same "family" as Oliver Twist, Jane Eyre, Harry Potter - orphan heroes suffering extreme deprivation, deprived of love as well as life's bare necessities as children and adolescents. When such characters get a happy ending, they tend to get exactly what they were once deprived of. It is rare that a happy ending for such a hero doesn't involve getting a "real" family unit. At the moment, I can't think of any examples who didn't. (Though I'm sure there are some.) In its purest fairytale form, a happy ending of this kind would involve both family and riches.

@Darth Dingbat

I think though that what muddies the waters with Rey is that none of the other stories mentioned made a mystery of their protagonist's heritage, they were unambigously orphans. Harry learns about how his parents really died early on in the first book. Whereas with Rey, we're one third into her story and we don't even know with 100% assurance that her parents are dead (though it's extremely likely). She could have been a simple orphan, but she's not and there's obviously some story there. Not knowing what that story is, it's hard to know what's really ahead for Rey. It could be about giving her a personal motive against Snoke, it could be about her destined to do or be something, etc. We don't know yet what's her place in the Force!universe and what importance her Force abilities are going to play in her life. At the moment she's just mostly bewildered by them.

Also, while we can gather from the bits about TLJ that Luke is going to disappoint Rey in some way, I very much doubt that Luke's role in Rey's life will stop at Disappointing Teacher, the end. I'm pretty sure that the dynamic between Luke and Rey will evolve somehow just like her dynamic with Kylo will.

@Saracene

I don't think any of this is in contradiction with what I wrote, tbh. There's no question that Rey has some great destiny ahead of her. But the question is whether that's simply a career trajectory towards greatness and further greatness, or whether, as is common in stories about similar heroes aimed at children, the heroism is ultimately rewarded with a happy family life. Harry Potter got a family and earned his happiness; it didn't diminish his heroic arc in any way. Even Katniss, who is a Strong Female Character(tm) and doesn't get an unambiguously happy ending at all, is ultimately rewarded with a peaceful life with a husband and children. And you could say after everything she went through, she certainly earned the right to live in peace.

And then in comparison you have someone like Frodo, who's torn out of a comfortable life and sent out to a heroic destiny, and who will never get that former happiness back. That's the cost of war. But the important difference is, Frodo didn't start out with less than nothing.

My point is that it makes little storytelling sense (IMO) for a character to start in extreme deprivation, and then embrace a heroic journey that teaches her the virtue of renunciation. Had she started out with a poor but relatively comfortable life, raised in a poor but affectionate family of scavengers, even such a change would have made the set-up completely different.

I also don't doubt Rey's relationship with Luke is going to evolve and be very important. But the main question is, is it the main relationship in the entire trilogy? Is the trilogy ultimately about Rey forging an unbreakable bond with Luke? If it is, then TFA didn't count for much.

Saracene wrote:

Moonjump05 wrote:I mean, for all intents and purposes Rey is an orphan.  In a way it doesn't matter that we don't know the whole story yet (like HP, we don't get the whole story until Deathly Hallows)  so the 'mystery' doesn't faze me.  Especially since the mystery is blown way out of proportion, imo.  We know she was left alone, that she has been waiting for her family, that wise Maz told her belonging was ahead, that she bonded with Finn, Han and Leia.  All this doesn't make me think a life of asceticism is in the cards.

@Moonjump05

Oh I agree that a detached monastic life is hardly to be Rey's future. I just don't necessarily think that it means marriage and kids at the end of the trilogy, either.

Unless this series breaks with the tradition and does a Harry Potter-like epilogue that jumps a few years ahead. I was actually thinking that the last movie could end with Rey and Kylo parting immediately after Snoke's defeat, and then show "a year later" and end with an emotional reunion between them. And then the last screen says something like, and then they didn't get out of bed for three weeks.

@Saracene

At bolded, it doesn't need to any more than Han/Leia did. They weren't married, no kids but the audience knew where the romance was at the end of RotJ. So when TFA rolled around, the marriage and kid were no big surprise. It is a movie, love stories don't just fizzle out after the movie ends. Especially a story like Star Wars.

Darth Dingbat wrote:I don't think any of this is in contradiction with what I wrote, tbh. There's no question that Rey has some great destiny ahead of her. But the question is whether that's simply a career trajectory towards greatness and further greatness, or whether, as is common in stories about similar heroes aimed at children, the heroism is ultimately rewarded with a happy family life. Harry Potter got a family and earned his happiness; it didn't diminish his heroic arc in any way. Even Katniss, who is a Strong Female Character(tm) and doesn't get an unambiguously happy ending at all, is ultimately rewarded with a peaceful life with a husband and children. And you could say after everything she went through, she certainly earned the right to live in peace.

True, but on the other hand there's Phillip Pullman's His Dark Materials trilogy, which ends with its heroine (who does have parents but grew up believing she was an orphan) parted from the boy she's in love with. So that's one example of a children's series ending on a bittersweet note.

Darth Dingbat wrote:I also don't doubt Rey's relationship with Luke is going to evolve and be very important. But the main question is, is it the main relationship in the entire trilogy? Is the trilogy ultimately about Rey forging an unbreakable bond with Luke? If it is, then TFA didn't count for much.

@Darth Dingbat

I don't know, can't both relationships be important? Does there necessarily have to be one main relationship next to which everything else pales?

Besides, TFA was ultimately about getting Rey over to meet Luke; it's the cliffhanger ending for the movie. Luke might not have been in it much, but it's not like the movie didn't count in the Rey/Luke dynamic for the series.

I think Luke's and Rey's relationship is going to be very important, it'll drive Rey's continued actions when she sees that the galaxy's absolute legend turns out to be a flawed human being. At the same time it doesn't lessen the importance of her relationship with Kylo Ren, if all this talk about "mysterious connection" is anything to go by.

I do wonder how Finn will hold his own, now that he's "out of Rey's shadow". He's definitely going to be braver (in the 1st half of TFA I'd never peg him for the type to just grab a racehorse-alien and go adventuring), and this time not for Rey's sake but because he's a real part of the resistance now.

Saracene wrote:

Darth Dingbat wrote:I don't think any of this is in contradiction with what I wrote, tbh. There's no question that Rey has some great destiny ahead of her. But the question is whether that's simply a career trajectory towards greatness and further greatness, or whether, as is common in stories about similar heroes aimed at children, the heroism is ultimately rewarded with a happy family life. Harry Potter got a family and earned his happiness; it didn't diminish his heroic arc in any way. Even Katniss, who is a Strong Female Character(tm) and doesn't get an unambiguously happy ending at all, is ultimately rewarded with a peaceful life with a husband and children. And you could say after everything she went through, she certainly earned the right to live in peace.

True, but on the other hand there's Phillip Pullman's His Dark Materials trilogy, which ends with its heroine (who does have parents but grew up believing she was an orphan) parted from the boy she's in love with. So that's one example of a children's series ending on a bittersweet note.

Well, Lyra didn't grow up in misery. It's been a while since I read HDM, but I seem to remember her childhood in Oxford wasn't one of deprivation. She had people looking after her, she had friends, she was allowed to indulge her whims of curiosity; Oxford had a lot to offer for her. It was definitely no Jakku.

And note that I did say "if Rey gets a happy ending..."

Saracene wrote:

Darth Dingbat wrote:I also don't doubt Rey's relationship with Luke is going to evolve and be very important. But the main question is, is it the main relationship in the entire trilogy? Is the trilogy ultimately about Rey forging an unbreakable bond with Luke? If it is, then TFA didn't count for much.

@Darth Dingbat

I don't know, can't both relationships be important? Does there necessarily have to be one main relationship next to which everything else pales?

@Saracene

Did I say that? I must have expressed myself really badly, as usual.

Darth Dingbat wrote:

Saracene wrote:

Darth Dingbat wrote:I don't think any of this is in contradiction with what I wrote, tbh. There's no question that Rey has some great destiny ahead of her. But the question is whether that's simply a career trajectory towards greatness and further greatness, or whether, as is common in stories about similar heroes aimed at children, the heroism is ultimately rewarded with a happy family life. Harry Potter got a family and earned his happiness; it didn't diminish his heroic arc in any way. Even Katniss, who is a Strong Female Character(tm) and doesn't get an unambiguously happy ending at all, is ultimately rewarded with a peaceful life with a husband and children. And you could say after everything she went through, she certainly earned the right to live in peace.

True, but on the other hand there's Phillip Pullman's His Dark Materials trilogy, which ends with its heroine (who does have parents but grew up believing she was an orphan) parted from the boy she's in love with. So that's one example of a children's series ending on a bittersweet note.

Well, Lyra didn't grow up in misery. It's been a while since I read HDM, but I seem to remember her childhood in Oxford wasn't one of deprivation. She had people looking after her, she had friends, she was allowed to indulge her whims of curiosity; Oxford had a lot to offer for her. It was definitely no Jakku.

And note that I did say "if Rey gets a happy ending..."

Saracene wrote:

Darth Dingbat wrote:I also don't doubt Rey's relationship with Luke is going to evolve and be very important. But the main question is, is it the main relationship in the entire trilogy? Is the trilogy ultimately about Rey forging an unbreakable bond with Luke? If it is, then TFA didn't count for much.

@Darth Dingbat

I don't know, can't both relationships be important? Does there necessarily have to be one main relationship next to which everything else pales?

@Saracene

Did I say that? I must have expressed myself really badly, as usual.

@Darth Dingbat

Oh no you didn't say that everything must pale next to the main Kylo/Rey relationship. Sorry I didn't mean to put words in your mouth, I just meant that the trilogy doesn't ultimately have to have one main relationship.

It's like, what's Anakin's main relationship in the PT? Is it his romantic relationship with Padme, or his relationship with Palpatine, the villain? I'd say that both are "main" relationships, and both come to the forefront at different times in the trilogy.

Actually I wonder, if PT wasn't a prequel series but a brand new one, would there be similar arguments after TPM about whether Anakin and Padme will get together later Complete with, oh please no the age difference.

panki wrote:@Darth_Awakened

Maybe your real life experiences shape your thinking but so did mine...my views are not just based on SW lore but as someone who has a lot of friends who took up a spiritual/ascetic life at a very young age and had no issue with non-attachment, not getting married, having kids etc. because this is a path they are comfortable with.

I agree with the point that Anakin couldn't technically blame the jedi for keeping him away from Shmi if they allowed him to be around Shmi....but if Palpatine would have killed her anyway, Shmi being around him would have made no difference and he still would have turned to the dark side and taken the galaxy down anyway.

To draw a parallel example, Dooku was deeply attached to Qui Gon like a father and obviously spent time with him from a young age but it didn't reduce his attachment to Qui Gon or give him any confidence- it only increased the attachment....he was so attached that the attachment extended to an extent to even Obi-wan, being Qui Gon's padawan (Dooku tried to save Obi-wan's life even when Sidious was keen to kill him).

When Maul killed Qui Gon, Dooku turned to the dark side anyway, despite having spent all those years around Qui Gon....Qui Gon's constant presence in his life just messed him up even more and made him easy prey for Sidious....and we must remember Dooku was a senior jedi master, not a young knight like Anakin.



Dooku turned to the dark side with a vengeance and committed large scale genocide, including killing his fellow jedi .....so having someone you are for around for years makes no difference if someone kills them anyway...it only deepens the attachment and increases the pain.

Anakin had a whole lot of baggage when he joined the jedi order unlike other younglings and padawans- his hard life as a slave, his attachment to his mother etc.....I still argue that he should have never been a jedi and we cannot blame the jedi's rule of non-attachment for his personal issues- if anyone is to blame, it is Qui Gon for making unreasonable deathbed requests...and even if Anakin went through the training, he should have quit the order when he fell for Padme (which he easily could have done)....not made the galaxy pay the price for his angst.

@panki

On the bolded: maybe I wasn't clear enough, I didn't mean a concrete decsion to chose a celibate as a example of real life approach.
My point was more on the  consequences of any kind of separation which can provoke longlife trauma in some people's life.
And even if you consider people who do choose as celibate (unfortunately I'am not so familiar with the ways of religion and spiritual/ascetic life in your part of the world - so I can throw now a stupidity - feel free to correct me ), even they (the catholic priests over here) in most cases have family: parents or siblings and they're attached emotionally to them.

There's also one thing that crossed my mind:

When we were growing up only with OT - Luke Skywalker was a hero, a character that many kids identified with.
He became a Jedi, a rightfull keeper of the peace in the galaxy and most of the fans wished him in their head canons a happy and successfull life.
As the monk thing didn't exist back then Luke also got a wife/love interest in the EU: Mara Jade (a bad*** woman as well).
And not only this, even after PT presented the idea of celibacy, we both know what was the most spoken theory that resulted from TFA: Rey Skywalker. So, even in the head canons of those who knew of the celibacy - the celibacy was ruled out.

I'am not sure (I'am just guessing - because I'am not 13 years old anymore)if the  identification with Luke as a character would be so interesting to kids.
Because, one thing is the identification with someone who is a super hero with powers with the open future and the other is the identification with someone who tends to be a kind of monk.

@Darth_Awakened

I think we see things differently because things work differently here.... I'll take the example of some hindu sects where a person who decides to become an ascetic has funeral rites performed as part of their leaving regular life behind as a way to say that their connection to their old life, family etc is over. (they don't even maintain contact with their family after that)...does that mean they are lonely anchorites? No...it just means that their new spiritual master and his other students are their family and they are quite happy with this....no going crazy, turning evil or taking revenge on society because they are separated from their birth family. I actually know of one guy who had to run away from home because he wanted to become a monk and his family wanted him to marry instead. Maybe it is different in the west but I can only speak of my experiences and those of my friends.

I do get your point regarding a 13 year old preferring to identify with someone who has an open future than a renunciate but I never said Rey had to be a celibate monk....I said she cannot be a jedi and have a married life with kids....she could still be a force user and have a family life or join one of the other force worshiping groups, get married have a family etc. ...or maybe she re-establishes the jedi order, and then leaves to get married a few years later.

My problem is with all the criticism of the jedi order....an order that preaches celibacy in itself isnt bad....maybe some people are not right for it and they need to find what they are actually meant for....take the example of a person who can play the piano....you stick him in a room full of artists and tell him to draw because both artists and pianists use their fingers...does that mean you'll get a great painting from him? Not necessarily. So maybe Rey is powerful in the force.... but that doesnt automatically mean she has to be a jedi....maybe they're introducing other force using groups to give her options? Or maybe she will become a jedi in the end....all I am saying is there is no problem with a spiritual group preaching celibacy.... the problem might lie in people who lack the aptitude to belong to it.

panki wrote:@Darth_Awakened

I think we see things differently because things work differently here.... I'll take the example of some hindu sects where a person who decides to become an ascetic has funeral rites performed as part of their leaving regular life behind as a way to say that their connection to their old life, family etc is over. (they don't even maintain contact with their family after that)...does that mean they are lonely anchorites? No...it just means that their new spiritual master and his other students are their family and they are quite happy with this....no going crazy, turning evil or taking revenge on society because they are separated from their birth family. I actually know of one guy who had to run away from home because he wanted to become a monk and his family wanted him to marry instead. Maybe it is different in the west but I can only speak of my experiences and those of my friends.

I do get your point regarding a 13 year old preferring to identify with someone who has an open future than a renunciate but I never said Rey had to be a celibate monk....I said she cannot be a jedi and have a married life with kids....she could still be a force user and have a family life or join one of the other force worshiping groups, get married have a family etc. ...or maybe she re-establishes the jedi order, and then leaves to get married a few years later.

My problem is with all the criticism of the jedi order....an order that preaches celibacy in itself isnt bad....maybe some people are not right for it and they need to find what they are actually meant for....take the example of a person who can play the piano....you stick him in a room full of artists and tell him to draw because both artists and pianists use their fingers...does that mean you'll get a great painting from him? Not necessarily. So maybe Rey is powerful in the force.... but that doesnt automatically mean she has to be a jedi....maybe they're introducing other force using groups to give her options? Or maybe she will become a jedi in the end....all I am saying is there is no problem with a spiritual group preaching celibacy.... the problem might lie in people who lack the aptitude to belong to it.

@panki

I definitely understand now the different approach and I don't think your approach is the wrong one. We just tend to explain the things differently according to our respective upbringing.
I saw what did you write about Rey and I agree completely on that matter. There're still a lot of things to learn about her.

Just found this tweet by our @BastilaBey aka @"ScavangersHoard" that gave me a good laugh!

https://twitter.com/ScavengersHoard/status/862077913176301568

Darth_Awakened wrote:Just found this tweet by our @"BastilaBae" aka @"ScavangersHoard" that gave me a good laugh!

https://twitter.com/ScavengersHoard/status/862077913176301568

@Darth_Awakened

Shocking in bed? Or would that be inappropriate use of Force Lightning?

Darth_Awakened wrote:Just found this tweet by our @BastilaBey aka @"ScavangersHoard" that gave me a good laugh!

https://twitter.com/ScavengersHoard/status/862077913176301568

@Darth_Awakened

Someone on Tumblr joked that Kylo would be the opposite. "Sith in the streets, Jedi between the sheets." LOL

Cowgirlsamurai wrote:

Someone on Tumblr joked that Kylo would be the opposite. "Sith in the streets, Jedi between the sheets." LOL

@Cowgirlsamurai

Goodness, I actually think that's he's reality as of TFA.

@AceofWands

Right? Hopefully he turns it around by the end of Ep9! 

Darth_Awakened wrote:Just found this tweet by our @BastilaBey aka @"ScavangersHoard" that gave me a good laugh!

https://twitter.com/ScavengersHoard/status/862077913176301568

@Darth_Awakened

I like the variation on this that I saw somewhere way, way back:

"Ben Solo in the streets, Kylo Ren in the sheets."

Someone tweeted Pablo a Reylo tumblr post (WHY, do you keep doing this people!?) but I couldn't resist sharing his reply... The Hoff!
https://twitter.com/pablohidalgo/status/863943661607804929

kroi wrote:Someone tweeted Pablo a Reylo tumblr post (WHY, do you keep doing this people!?) but I couldn't resist sharing his reply... The Hoff!
https://twitter.com/pablohidalgo/status/863943661607804929

@kroi

Sorry, all I can think of is GOTG2 and "I used to pretend my father was David Hasselhoff"

kroi wrote:Someone tweeted Pablo a Reylo tumblr post (WHY, do you keep doing this people!?) but I couldn't resist sharing his reply... The Hoff!
https://twitter.com/pablohidalgo/status/863943661607804929

@kroi

Hahahahahahaha Pablo is hilarious.

I love how he never debunks anything Reylo related, he only snarks and adds more fuel to the fire.

Mpfffhhh

nemapasara wrote:

kroi wrote:Someone tweeted Pablo a Reylo tumblr post (WHY, do you keep doing this people!?) but I couldn't resist sharing his reply... The Hoff!
https://twitter.com/pablohidalgo/status/863943661607804929

@kroi

Sorry, all I can think of is GOTG2 and "I used to pretend my father was David Hasselhoff"

@nemapasara

Me, too. But "he was too busy touring in Germany".

kroi wrote:Someone tweeted Pablo a Reylo tumblr post (WHY, do you keep doing this people!?) but I couldn't resist sharing his reply... The Hoff!  
https://twitter.com/pablohidalgo/status/863943661607804929

@kroi



Yesterday I was looking at our archived Tweets thread in this same section of the forum.  That majority of those up there are from spring, 2016.  I'm telling you, if you are ever on the fence about Reylo, or go back to thinking she *might* be a Skywalker, go read that thread.  It's pure gold.  The dude's hilarious.

Pablo may be a fanboy, and he may be not be on board fully with the way the writers characterized Kylo Ren, but one thing he won't do is lie.  Think of ALL of the things he has debunked or wrecked - Reylo is never found on that list.  In fact, in some of those tweets he actually encourages it, just like we're seeing here.

I also love how the subsequent posters are absolutely clueless who the original poster is referring to.

If he "debunked" Reylo it would impact the question of Rey's parentage. If Rey and Kylo aren't related, then there could always remain a potential for romance and there will be sexual chemistry (which really seems to already be there), so one wouldn't debunk Reylo even after episode 8 in that case. If LF went out and debunked Reylo now, it would point towards Rey and Kylo being related (because that would be why it's impossible).

Want to have a laugh, read this. Jumping to the conclusion that Kylo will die at the hands of Luke based on... Duh, the poster and Pablo's tweet on gray Jedi. Come on, it makes sense! Don't you see the dots linking it all together? I want to be an online journalist in another life.

http://www.ibtimes.co.in/star-wars-viii-plot-rumours-kylo-ren-meet-his-demise-last-jedi-726632