Discussion: Spoilers/Rumors

SoloSideCousin wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

Xylo Ren wrote:Kylo needs to save her, it's a trope that needs to happen for their story and dynamics to progress.

If he saves her from something, he'll start to gain her trust as well as the audience's. We will see his "humanity" (Adam's word) and we will also see expectations overturned (how many times have we seen the cast say something along those lines??).

Rey already knowing how to swim? What a joke! If they pull that there's no way anyone will be able to believe it. They shouldn't have put her on a desert planet if they wanted to foreshadow that skill. They could've put her on a swamp planet or even show some type of swimming hole on Jakku.

She's completely out of her element and surrounded by water. There's no reason to have her fall in if she already knows how to swim. We already know she can handle herself. It's Kylo's chivalry we need to be convinced of.

@Xylo Ren

I don't think there will be any shortage of opportunities for Rey to interact with water in the Ahch-To plot. Even if she doesn't know how to swim when she arrives, I suspect she'll be a competent swimmer by the time she leaves. Like @SoloSideCousin said, there were several sets that we know about that had a water element--those can't all be for her "fall" or sea monster battle or whatever.

Then again, I also don't believe that the shot of Rey diving into the pool and transitioning to a breast stroke is connected to the rain fight in any way.

Of course, who knows how she'll learn to swim???

@ISeeAnIsland

Right, especially if Rian really is going delve deep into a fire and water theme.  I can't help think of the words "purge", "purify" and "baptism", along with "destroy" and "rebirth", when I think of what the  fire and water are in this context.  Fire purges, destroys and also "purifies", the last working well with that lightsider fanatic (Inquistorial) type of theory.  But there is also "baptism by fire", and "rebirth/rising like a phoenix" by fire, which might go very well with Kylo/Ben.  Water also "baptizes", gives new life (rebirth), cleans, restores, transforms.  There is something with "taking away the old and bringing in the new" at the very least here I think.

I also agree with @Xylo Ren that he has to save her at some point.  Maybe it's the water.  Maybe it's force pull.  Maybe it's a variation on the Forceback.  Maybe it's something we haven't even dreamed of. I don't know.  But there has to be a big moment where the GA realizes that he is not who they think he is at all.  Basically there needs to be some moment like Arnold's "Get down" moment in Terminator 2, where the guy who looks in every way to be the villain is actually not.  Instead, he's saving a hero.

I also do think that they will allow Rey to be saved by him.  She has more than proved that she is kick a** and can take care of herself and others.  But everyone needs saving sometimes.  To make her ridiculously perfect does nothing for women, and like @Xylo Ren said, he needs those kinds of moments for advance his character.

@SoloSideCousin

I agree that Rey will be saved by him. I'm just not confident that it's going to happen on that cliff's edge. I think it's something that's going to be more pivotal than that. I have no idea what that will be, though. And I suspect that it could be something that drives Rey closer to Kylo and away from Luke. (Hut explosion, anyone?)

In fact, it's going to be extremely significant that Kylo saves Rey, because up until that point, she will have always saved herself.

Xylo Ren wrote:tf is this


(tumblr darcyfitz)

flashbacks or redemption TF IS THIS

@Xylo Ren

I saw this on Tumblr earlier and I was ecstatic.  Flashback or Redemption, we get to see pieces of Ben Solo!!!!    

IoJovi wrote:

Xylo Ren wrote:tf is this


(tumblr darcyfitz)

flashbacks or redemption TF IS THIS

@Xylo Ren

I saw this on Tumblr earlier and I was ecstatic.  Flashback or Redemption, we get to see pieces of Ben Solo!!!!    

@IoJovi

Not to be That Person, but that's from his wikipedia page, which means that anyone can edit it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Driver

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

IoJovi wrote:

Xylo Ren wrote:tf is this


(tumblr darcyfitz)

flashbacks or redemption TF IS THIS

@Xylo Ren

I saw this on Tumblr earlier and I was ecstatic.  Flashback or Redemption, we get to see pieces of Ben Solo!!!!    

@IoJovi

Not to be That Person, but that's from his wikipedia page, which means that anyone can edit it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Driver

@ISeeAnIsland

No worries... It was fun while it lasted...

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

IoJovi wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

Xylo Ren wrote:Kylo needs to save her, it's a trope that needs to happen for their story and dynamics to progress.

If he saves her from something, he'll start to gain her trust as well as the audience's. We will see his "humanity" (Adam's word) and we will also see expectations overturned (how many times have we seen the cast say something along those lines??).

Rey already knowing how to swim? What a joke! If they pull that there's no way anyone will be able to believe it. They shouldn't have put her on a desert planet if they wanted to foreshadow that skill. They could've put her on a swamp planet or even show some type of swimming hole on Jakku.

She's completely out of her element and surrounded by water. There's no reason to have her fall in if she already knows how to swim. We already know she can handle herself. It's Kylo's chivalry we need to be convinced of.

@Xylo Ren

I don't think there will be any shortage of opportunities for Rey to interact with water in the Ahch-To plot. Even if she doesn't know how to swim when she arrives, I suspect she'll be a competent swimmer by the time she leaves. Like @SoloSideCousin said, there were several sets that we know about that had a water element--those can't all be for her "fall" or sea monster battle or whatever.

Then again, I also don't believe that the shot of Rey diving into the pool and transitioning to a breast stroke is connected to the rain fight in any way.

Of course, who knows how she'll learn to swim???

@ISeeAnIsland

I was just going to say this.  It's highly likely now there's a time jump in TLJ and I think this will cover the time they're on Ach-To.  If it's a year and they're on water planet, that's an adequate amount of time for Rey to learn to swim.  

What's a better question about this time jump is if Kylo is present by the time it comes about.   Is he on Ach-To with Rey and Luke for that year's duration? That'll be interesting...

@IoJovi

Even if it's a few weeks, that's plenty of time for Rey to learn to be a decent swimmer, at least.

TBH, I'm really scratching my head over how a time jump would work its way into this, given the little that we know of the plot so far:

* The D'Qar attack seems like it happens very early. Assuming that this is where Kylo gets the map, given how he was in TFA, I can't imagine him NOT heading straight to Ahch-To. He's not going to sit around for weeks on the Finalizer coming up with a strategy for that.
* Given that, and that it seems like he probably shows up on Ahch-To at the end of Act I, Rey probably wouldn't have spent more than a few weeks (at most) on Ahch-To. We've got some Jedi training, sea monster fighting, and trippy visions to fit into this. I guess she could learn how to swim here?
* Things are going to be INTENSE when Kylo shows up. And if his ship is wrecked (as suspected), he's going to be stuck there. Luke isn't going to want him there.
* At some point Luke blows up a hut. I can't see this happening after Kylo has already been hanging out with them for weeks, if Luke's actions come from a place of raw emotion.
* It hasn't been mentioned at all in any leaks we've got, but I still think there's going to be part of the Ahch-To plot where they need to search for something(s). I can't see Luke scaling cliffs or diving through caves in those Jedi robes, so it'd have to be Rey and/or Kylo. This seems like the most logical place for a time jump. But is the FO searching for Kylo at all during this time? Do they even know where he is?
* At some point, Rey, Kylo, and Chewie leave Ahch-To, whether together or separately. Does the FO show up at any point and Kylo leaves with them? Or does Kylo leave with Rey in the Falcon? If the FO shows up to retrieve Kylo, Luke and Rey aren't going to continue to hang around on Ahch-To.

Has anyone been able to wrap their heads around this better than me?

ETA: Also, given that there's no central romance in TLJ, the time jump has to be long enough for Kylo and Rey to become allies and start to develop feelings for each other...but not long enough for those feelings to progress into an actual romantic relationship. So, maybe a time jump of a few weeks or months at most? Cuz if the UST is as intense as we're expecting...they're not going to be hanging out on that island for a year with nothing physical happening between them.

@ISeeAnIsland

I think the attack on D'Qar will happen extremely fast.  SKB might have been blown up, but there is no doubt that the FO has a massive arsenal around the galaxy.  Hux knew they were on D'Qar.  As soon as Hux gets to a place where he can give orders and mobilize, he's going to give the order for the strike on D'Qar.  In fact, if they don't show the Resistance already in the process of evacuating when the movie starts, that will be a weakness, because Leia knows that the FO knows where she is.

I could also see Kylo entering an empty base, very Vader on Hoth-like, to get the coordinates for Ahch-to, if he isn't shown to have gotten them from Rey's head.

I certainly don't have everything figured out with the timeline in the least, lol, but I think that there is a possibility that Luke is "off somewhere" when Kylo arrives.  There have been rumors of him refusing to train Rey, of him just disappearing on her to go who knows where, rumors of Rey exploring the island alone *and* there is that shot from the BTS where Luke does look like he is going to go on some hiking trip somewhere. 

Also, like you were saying, filming ended a year ago, and we have forgotten a lot.  But there was good evidence that there were some hidden filming locations in Ireland.  There was stuff about Luke meditating before some rock.  Maybe that is supposed to be somewhere away from Rey. Also, remember that possible Jedi temple looking building that they had at Pinewood.  Is that building supposed to be on Ahch-to or somewhere else? Could Luke go to another island and just leave Rey there so he can ponder Rey's place in the force or whatever?

So if Luke does leave for a while ... while Luke is gone, Kylo turns up ... and all kinds of things get said and he tells her some home truths about Luke and about what might be hidden on that island ... and maybe what he says jibes with her visions and what she has sensed about Luke ... and she and he become reluctant allies ... and they search for something in a cave or whatever ... and then Luke suddenly returns, sees Kylo, blows up the hut and all hell breaks loose and Rey, Kylo and Chewie really need to leave.

I think a lot of people think that Mark is going to be all over this movie.  I don't think he is.  He said for months that he was a supporting player and that is wasn't his movie anymore.  As such, I think it's possible that Luke will be around with Rey alone at the beginning, leave the scene for a while, come back for hut blowing madness and then disappear for a while. Then I think that he will turn up in a huge way during the third act somehow.  I mean if that Rey vision of lightsabers and fighting in the snowy woods and a man says "I promise I'll be back sweetheart" comes to pass in TLJ, and if that guy is Kylo, that is going to take place towards the end ... and that might be a moment where some serious sith goes down with Luke and Kylo/Ben.

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

IoJovi wrote:

Xylo Ren wrote:tf is this


(tumblr darcyfitz)

flashbacks or redemption TF IS THIS

@Xylo Ren

I saw this on Tumblr earlier and I was ecstatic.  Flashback or Redemption, we get to see pieces of Ben Solo!!!!    

@IoJovi

Not to be That Person, but that's from his wikipedia page, which means that anyone can edit it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Driver

@ISeeAnIsland

Well I'm sure if it is a gross misrepresentation the Disney hounds will sniff it out and edit Ben out. Sooner rather than later.

SoloSideCousin wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

IoJovi wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

Xylo Ren wrote:Kylo needs to save her, it's a trope that needs to happen for their story and dynamics to progress.

If he saves her from something, he'll start to gain her trust as well as the audience's. We will see his "humanity" (Adam's word) and we will also see expectations overturned (how many times have we seen the cast say something along those lines??).

Rey already knowing how to swim? What a joke! If they pull that there's no way anyone will be able to believe it. They shouldn't have put her on a desert planet if they wanted to foreshadow that skill. They could've put her on a swamp planet or even show some type of swimming hole on Jakku.

She's completely out of her element and surrounded by water. There's no reason to have her fall in if she already knows how to swim. We already know she can handle herself. It's Kylo's chivalry we need to be convinced of.

@Xylo Ren

I don't think there will be any shortage of opportunities for Rey to interact with water in the Ahch-To plot. Even if she doesn't know how to swim when she arrives, I suspect she'll be a competent swimmer by the time she leaves. Like @SoloSideCousin said, there were several sets that we know about that had a water element--those can't all be for her "fall" or sea monster battle or whatever.

Then again, I also don't believe that the shot of Rey diving into the pool and transitioning to a breast stroke is connected to the rain fight in any way.

Of course, who knows how she'll learn to swim???

@ISeeAnIsland

I was just going to say this.  It's highly likely now there's a time jump in TLJ and I think this will cover the time they're on Ach-To.  If it's a year and they're on water planet, that's an adequate amount of time for Rey to learn to swim.  

What's a better question about this time jump is if Kylo is present by the time it comes about.   Is he on Ach-To with Rey and Luke for that year's duration? That'll be interesting...

@IoJovi

Even if it's a few weeks, that's plenty of time for Rey to learn to be a decent swimmer, at least.

TBH, I'm really scratching my head over how a time jump would work its way into this, given the little that we know of the plot so far:

* The D'Qar attack seems like it happens very early. Assuming that this is where Kylo gets the map, given how he was in TFA, I can't imagine him NOT heading straight to Ahch-To. He's not going to sit around for weeks on the Finalizer coming up with a strategy for that.
* Given that, and that it seems like he probably shows up on Ahch-To at the end of Act I, Rey probably wouldn't have spent more than a few weeks (at most) on Ahch-To. We've got some Jedi training, sea monster fighting, and trippy visions to fit into this. I guess she could learn how to swim here?
* Things are going to be INTENSE when Kylo shows up. And if his ship is wrecked (as suspected), he's going to be stuck there. Luke isn't going to want him there.
* At some point Luke blows up a hut. I can't see this happening after Kylo has already been hanging out with them for weeks, if Luke's actions come from a place of raw emotion.
* It hasn't been mentioned at all in any leaks we've got, but I still think there's going to be part of the Ahch-To plot where they need to search for something(s). I can't see Luke scaling cliffs or diving through caves in those Jedi robes, so it'd have to be Rey and/or Kylo. This seems like the most logical place for a time jump. But is the FO searching for Kylo at all during this time? Do they even know where he is?
* At some point, Rey, Kylo, and Chewie leave Ahch-To, whether together or separately. Does the FO show up at any point and Kylo leaves with them? Or does Kylo leave with Rey in the Falcon? If the FO shows up to retrieve Kylo, Luke and Rey aren't going to continue to hang around on Ahch-To.

Has anyone been able to wrap their heads around this better than me?

ETA: Also, given that there's no central romance in TLJ, the time jump has to be long enough for Kylo and Rey to become allies and start to develop feelings for each other...but not long enough for those feelings to progress into an actual romantic relationship. So, maybe a time jump of a few weeks or months at most? Cuz if the UST is as intense as we're expecting...they're not going to be hanging out on that island for a year with nothing physical happening between them.

@ISeeAnIsland

I think the attack on D'Qar will happen extremely fast.  SKB might have been blown up, but there is no doubt that the FO has a massive arsenal around the galaxy.  Hux knew they were on D'Qar.  As soon as Hux gets to a place where he can give orders and mobilize, he's going to give the order for the strike on D'Qar.  In fact, if they don't show the Resistance already in the process of evacuating when the movie starts, that will be a weakness, because Leia knows that the FO knows where she is.

I could also see Kylo entering an empty base, very Vader on Hoth-like, to get the coordinates for Ahch-to, if he isn't shown to have gotten them from Rey's head.

I certainly don't have everything figured out with the timeline in the least, lol, but I think that there is a possibility that Luke is "off somewhere" when Kylo arrives.  There have been rumors of him refusing to train Rey, of him just disappearing on her to go who knows where, rumors of Rey exploring the island alone *and* there is that shot from the BTS where Luke does look like he is going to go on some hiking trip somewhere. 

Also, like you were saying, filming ended a year ago, and we have forgotten a lot.  But there was good evidence that there were some hidden filming locations in Ireland.  There was stuff about Luke meditating before some rock.  Maybe that is supposed to be somewhere away from Rey. Also, remember that possible Jedi temple looking building that they had at Pinewood.  Is that building supposed to be on Ahch-to or somewhere else? Could Luke go to another island and just leave Rey there so he can ponder Rey's place in the force or whatever?

So if Luke does leave for a while ... while Luke is gone, Kylo turns up ... and all kinds of things get said and he tells her some home truths about Luke and about what might be hidden on that island ... and maybe what he says jibes with her visions and what she has sensed about Luke ... and she and he become reluctant allies ... and they search for something in a cave or whatever ... and then Luke suddenly returns, sees Kylo, blows up the hut and all hell breaks loose and Rey, Kylo and Chewie really need to leave.

I think a lot of people think that Mark is going to be all over this movie.  I don't think he is.  He said for months that he was a supporting player and that is wasn't his movie anymore.  As such, I think it's possible that Luke will be around with Rey alone at the beginning, leave the scene for a while, come back for hut blowing madness and then disappear for a while. Then I think that he will turn up in a huge way during the third act somehow.  I mean if that Rey vision of lightsabers and fighting in the snowy woods and a man says "I promise I'll be back sweetheart" comes to pass in TLJ, and if that guy is Kylo, that is going to take place towards the end ... and that might be a moment where some serious sith goes down with Luke and Kylo/Ben.

@SoloSideCousin

Completely off topic, but I just got super excited at the fact that we WILL know how all of it goes down in about four months. I can't believe it's almost here.

Okay, I'm done now. Carry on!!!

I go off for a few hours and missed all this goodness...bet you're getting bored of me harping on but I LOVE reading all of these views, I can't read them fast enough.

@IoJovi 4 months!!! Any predictions on the next trailer at all?

MrsWindu wrote:I go off for a few hours and missed all this goodness...bet you're getting bored of me harping on but I LOVE reading all of these views, I can't read them fast enough.

@IoJovi 4 months!!! Any predictions on the next trailer at all?

@MrsWindu

People might not like hearing this, but in predicting October. That's the same time TFA's was released in 2015, and it was during a football game. I normally cannot sit through an entire game of football without dying of boredom, but I did for that.

And little did I even know then what kind of effect that movie would have on me...

IoJovi wrote:

MrsWindu wrote:I go off for a few hours and missed all this goodness...bet you're getting bored of me harping on but I LOVE reading all of these views, I can't read them fast enough.

@IoJovi 4 months!!! Any predictions on the next trailer at all?

@MrsWindu

People might not like hearing this, but in predicting October. That's the same time TFA's was released in 2015, and it was during a football game. I normally cannot sit through an entire game of football without dying of boredom, but I did for that.

And little did I even know then what kind of effect that movie would have on me...

@IoJovi

I don't hate that idea at all. I mean, Force Friday is in a couple of weeks and that will tide us over a bit. Then the trailer would be a month after and that'd give us a lot to talk about. Maybe press will start a bit in November and then the movie's in December. It seems like it's still far away but the closer we get to it, the more I'm appreciating the quiet and calm before the storm.

IoJovi wrote:

MrsWindu wrote:I go off for a few hours and missed all this goodness...bet you're getting bored of me harping on but I LOVE reading all of these views, I can't read them fast enough.

@IoJovi 4 months!!! Any predictions on the next trailer at all?

@MrsWindu

People might not like hearing this, but in predicting October. That's the same time TFA's was released in 2015, and it was during a football game. I normally cannot sit through an entire game of football without dying of boredom, but I did for that.

And little did I even know then what kind of effect that movie would have on me...

@IoJovi

Oh gosh I remember that trailer. I was curious about TFA before it opened not necessarily excited and didn't know what to think of the Rey in opening of trailer but I almost peed my pants when Han said 'it's all real'

Forgive me as I've never lived in the US is this football match a big deal? Well that's only 10 weeks away?

MrsWindu wrote:

IoJovi wrote:

MrsWindu wrote:I go off for a few hours and missed all this goodness...bet you're getting bored of me harping on but I LOVE reading all of these views, I can't read them fast enough.

@IoJovi 4 months!!! Any predictions on the next trailer at all?

@MrsWindu

People might not like hearing this, but in predicting October. That's the same time TFA's was released in 2015, and it was during a football game. I normally cannot sit through an entire game of football without dying of boredom, but I did for that.

And little did I even know then what kind of effect that movie would have on me...

@IoJovi

Oh gosh I remember that trailer. I was curious about TFA before it opened not necessarily excited and didn't know what to think of the Rey in opening of trailer but I almost peed my pants when Han said 'it's all real'

Forgive me as I've never lived in the US is this football match a big deal? Well that's only 10 weeks away?

@MrsWindu

Football season lasts from the beginning September, ending with the Superbowl usually in mid February. I just asked my husband if he remembers the specific game we watched for that trailer. He doesn't remember the exact game, but he seems to think it was Monday night football, which is a weekly event here during that time frame.

By asking him this question he's now talking my head off about football, so....

To answer your question though, American Football is a pretty big deal here in the US in general, both at the professional and college level. I feel like I'm one of a handful of people here who doesn't follow it...

IoJovi wrote:

MrsWindu wrote:

IoJovi wrote:

MrsWindu wrote:I go off for a few hours and missed all this goodness...bet you're getting bored of me harping on but I LOVE reading all of these views, I can't read them fast enough.

@IoJovi 4 months!!! Any predictions on the next trailer at all?

@MrsWindu

People might not like hearing this, but in predicting October. That's the same time TFA's was released in 2015, and it was during a football game. I normally cannot sit through an entire game of football without dying of boredom, but I did for that.

And little did I even know then what kind of effect that movie would have on me...

@IoJovi

Oh gosh I remember that trailer. I was curious about TFA before it opened not necessarily excited and didn't know what to think of the Rey in opening of trailer but I almost peed my pants when Han said 'it's all real'

Forgive me as I've never lived in the US is this football match a big deal? Well that's only 10 weeks away?

@MrsWindu

Football season lasts from the beginning September, ending with the Superbowl usually in mid February. I just asked my husband if he remembers the specific game we watched for that trailer. He doesn't remember the exact game, but he seems to think it was Monday night football, which is a weekly event here during that time frame.

By asking him this question he's now talking my head off about football, so....

To answer your question though, American Football is a pretty big deal here in the US in general, both at the professional and college level. I feel like I'm one of a handful of people here who doesn't follow it...

@IoJovi

I am in that handful too. I don't think I will ever understand it. It takes like 4 hours to play a game because of all the rules and time-outs.

@SoloSideCousin As a person who finds consistent progress an enjoyable thing, whether it be at work or with a hobby, the constant starting and stopping with American football drives me all kinds of insane.

I love hockey though, and I think it's because the action is constant, and is carried through til the end, unless someone pulls a bonehead move.  And if there's a fight, well, awesome.  I'm not above saying that...

Oh no, please don't get me preemptively excited over a potential Kid!Ben appearance!

So fire and water symbolism... yes, fire is a destructive force while water is a healing force, but also keep in mind that fire is just as cleansing as water, just in a different way. In yoga tapas is "fiery discipline" and is about burning away that which no longer serves... and for Ben Solo that's everything associated with Kylo Ren. Let's hope that ship burns to the ground. (And not just so he can catch a joyride on the Falcon with Rey )

SoloSideCousin wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland

I think the attack on D'Qar will happen extremely fast.  SKB might have been blown up, but there is no doubt that the FO has a massive arsenal around the galaxy.  Hux knew they were on D'Qar.  As soon as Hux gets to a place where he can give orders and mobilize, he's going to give the order for the strike on D'Qar.  In fact, if they don't show the Resistance already in the process of evacuating when the movie starts, that will be a weakness, because Leia knows that the FO knows where she is.

I could also see Kylo entering an empty base, very Vader on Hoth-like, to get the coordinates for Ahch-to, if he isn't shown to have gotten them from Rey's head.

I certainly don't have everything figured out with the timeline in the least, lol, but I think that there is a possibility that Luke is "off somewhere" when Kylo arrives.  There have been rumors of him refusing to train Rey, of him just disappearing on her to go who knows where, rumors of Rey exploring the island alone *and* there is that shot from the BTS where Luke does look like he is going to go on some hiking trip somewhere. 

Also, like you were saying, filming ended a year ago, and we have forgotten a lot.  But there was good evidence that there were some hidden filming locations in Ireland.  There was stuff about Luke meditating before some rock.  Maybe that is supposed to be somewhere away from Rey. Also, remember that possible Jedi temple looking building that they had at Pinewood.  Is that building supposed to be on Ahch-to or somewhere else? Could Luke go to another island and just leave Rey there so he can ponder Rey's place in the force or whatever?

So if Luke does leave for a while ... while Luke is gone, Kylo turns up ... and all kinds of things get said and he tells her some home truths about Luke and about what might be hidden on that island ... and maybe what he says jibes with her visions and what she has sensed about Luke ... and she and he become reluctant allies ... and they search for something in a cave or whatever ... and then Luke suddenly returns, sees Kylo, blows up the hut and all hell breaks loose and Rey, Kylo and Chewie really need to leave.

I think a lot of people think that Mark is going to be all over this movie.  I don't think he is.  He said for months that he was a supporting player and that is wasn't his movie anymore.  As such, I think it's possible that Luke will be around with Rey alone at the beginning, leave the scene for a while, come back for hut blowing madness and then disappear for a while. Then I think that he will turn up in a huge way during the third act somehow.  I mean if that Rey vision of lightsabers and fighting in the snowy woods and a man says "I promise I'll be back sweetheart" comes to pass in TLJ, and if that guy is Kylo, that is going to take place towards the end ... and that might be a moment where some serious sith goes down with Luke and Kylo/Ben.

@SoloSideCousin

I also think that there might be a possibility that Luke is "off somewhere" when Kylo shows up. Luke is nowhere around when Rey is charging down that beach with that lightsaber. And as you pointed out, there's that BTS shot where Luke is in his brown robes and appears to be "going somewhere" while Rey is still in her Resistance outfit. Not to mention all of the various solo shots of Rey around Ahch-To from the trailer, BTS, and VF shoot. It definitely looks like she'll be spending some time exploring the island on her own.

If they are going to pair Rey and Kylo up as allies, if not romantically in TLJ, giving them some "alone time" to sort things out and start to understand each other (without Luke around) would certainly be the easiest way to go about that. Heck, give us one scene showing them staying up all night talking together in one of the beehive huts, and it would take their relationship miles from where it started.

I had thought that Mark would be a supporting player (leaving the door open for Luke unintentionally leaving Rey and Kylo alone for a stretch), but I'll admit that I'm having my doubts about that, given the "Rey and Luke's relationship is the beating heart/key relationship," etc. That means that either Luke and Rey are going to spend a ton of time together, or Luke is going to be Rey's antagonist, IMO.

I'm with you in that I highly doubt Luke will leave Ahch-To on the Falcon with Rey and Chewie. They're going to make a huge deal out of him raising up that X-wing and choosing to leave when he realizes that he needs to do so. I could even see him reprising Han's role from ANH and emerging out of nowhere in the final battle to save someone. Or if they go with the Dark(er) Luke scenario, it'll be like you describe--and if Kylo/Ben really is the "stay there sweetheart" voice (on Crait)...*shivers*

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

SoloSideCousin wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland

I think the attack on D'Qar will happen extremely fast.  SKB might have been blown up, but there is no doubt that the FO has a massive arsenal around the galaxy.  Hux knew they were on D'Qar.  As soon as Hux gets to a place where he can give orders and mobilize, he's going to give the order for the strike on D'Qar.  In fact, if they don't show the Resistance already in the process of evacuating when the movie starts, that will be a weakness, because Leia knows that the FO knows where she is.

I could also see Kylo entering an empty base, very Vader on Hoth-like, to get the coordinates for Ahch-to, if he isn't shown to have gotten them from Rey's head.

I certainly don't have everything figured out with the timeline in the least, lol, but I think that there is a possibility that Luke is "off somewhere" when Kylo arrives.  There have been rumors of him refusing to train Rey, of him just disappearing on her to go who knows where, rumors of Rey exploring the island alone *and* there is that shot from the BTS where Luke does look like he is going to go on some hiking trip somewhere. 

Also, like you were saying, filming ended a year ago, and we have forgotten a lot.  But there was good evidence that there were some hidden filming locations in Ireland.  There was stuff about Luke meditating before some rock.  Maybe that is supposed to be somewhere away from Rey. Also, remember that possible Jedi temple looking building that they had at Pinewood.  Is that building supposed to be on Ahch-to or somewhere else? Could Luke go to another island and just leave Rey there so he can ponder Rey's place in the force or whatever?

So if Luke does leave for a while ... while Luke is gone, Kylo turns up ... and all kinds of things get said and he tells her some home truths about Luke and about what might be hidden on that island ... and maybe what he says jibes with her visions and what she has sensed about Luke ... and she and he become reluctant allies ... and they search for something in a cave or whatever ... and then Luke suddenly returns, sees Kylo, blows up the hut and all hell breaks loose and Rey, Kylo and Chewie really need to leave.

I think a lot of people think that Mark is going to be all over this movie.  I don't think he is.  He said for months that he was a supporting player and that is wasn't his movie anymore.  As such, I think it's possible that Luke will be around with Rey alone at the beginning, leave the scene for a while, come back for hut blowing madness and then disappear for a while. Then I think that he will turn up in a huge way during the third act somehow.  I mean if that Rey vision of lightsabers and fighting in the snowy woods and a man says "I promise I'll be back sweetheart" comes to pass in TLJ, and if that guy is Kylo, that is going to take place towards the end ... and that might be a moment where some serious sith goes down with Luke and Kylo/Ben.

@SoloSideCousin

I also think that there might be a possibility that Luke is "off somewhere" when Kylo shows up. Luke is nowhere around when Rey is charging down that beach with that lightsaber. And as you pointed out, there's that BTS shot where Luke is in his brown robes and appears to be "going somewhere" while Rey is still in her Resistance outfit. Not to mention all of the various solo shots of Rey around Ahch-To from the trailer, BTS, and VF shoot. It definitely looks like she'll be spending some time exploring the island on her own.

If they are going to pair Rey and Kylo up as allies, if not romantically in TLJ, giving them some "alone time" to sort things out and start to understand each other (without Luke around) would certainly be the easiest way to go about that. Heck, give us one scene showing them staying up all night talking together in one of the beehive huts, and it would take their relationship miles from where it started.

I had thought that Mark would be a supporting player (leaving the door open for Luke unintentionally leaving Rey and Kylo alone for a stretch), but I'll admit that I'm having my doubts about that, given the "Rey and Luke's relationship is the beating heart/key relationship," etc. That means that either Luke and Rey are going to spend a ton of time together, or Luke is going to be Rey's antagonist, IMO.

I'm with you in that I highly doubt Luke will leave Ahch-To on the Falcon with Rey and Chewie. They're going to make a huge deal out of him raising up that X-wing and choosing to leave when he realizes that he needs to do so. I could even see him reprising Han's role from ANH and emerging out of nowhere in the final battle to save someone. Or if they go with the Dark(er) Luke scenario, it'll be like you describe--and if Kylo/Ben really is the "stay there sweetheart" voice (on Crait)...*shivers*

@ISeeAnIsland

Poor Luke, he's always the third wheel.

MeadowofAshes wrote:Oh no, please don't get me preemptively excited over a potential Kid!Ben appearance!

So fire and water symbolism... yes, fire is a destructive force while water is a healing force, but also keep in mind that fire is just as cleansing as water, just in a different way. In yoga tapas is "fiery discipline" and is about burning away that which no longer serves... and for Ben Solo that's everything associated with Kylo Ren. Let's hope that ship burns to the ground. (And not just so he can catch a joyride on the Falcon with Rey )

@MeadowofAshes

Ooh--that would be awesome! Kylo's ship burning to the ground would be fantastic symbolism. It would also go nicely with Kylo's smashed/smoking mask.

Another thought on the water thing... Regardless of when/how Rey learns how to swim, that BTS still of happy Rey feeling the rain would indicate that TLJ is NOT going to forget that Rey grew up on a desert planet where water is a rarity.

I think Rey's diving into the water and swimming to find an object/defeat a monster symbolizes a deeper inner journey and spiritual quest that she must undertake so having anyone rescue her here would undermine it. There were rumors of DR spending time in a sensory deprivation tank as well...this all points to something more spiritual going on in the water scene.

But that being said, Kylo rescuing Rey would definitely make her question whether he is a bad guy especially when combined with some sad flashback.

A more plausible scenario where the rescue happens is the fight scene involving 25-30 characters. i think either Snoke sends FO people or Unkar sends bounty hunters to capture Rey (since the second movie in each trilogy involves bounty hunters at some point) and she gets injured and overwhelmed. This would explain the injury on her forehead and arm.

Kylo lands up and helps her defeat them, probably getting injured in the process. This could easily transition to her tending his wounds in a beehive hut and Luke's hutslaying scene.

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

SoloSideCousin wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland

I think the attack on D'Qar will happen extremely fast.  SKB might have been blown up, but there is no doubt that the FO has a massive arsenal around the galaxy.  Hux knew they were on D'Qar.  As soon as Hux gets to a place where he can give orders and mobilize, he's going to give the order for the strike on D'Qar.  In fact, if they don't show the Resistance already in the process of evacuating when the movie starts, that will be a weakness, because Leia knows that the FO knows where she is.

I could also see Kylo entering an empty base, very Vader on Hoth-like, to get the coordinates for Ahch-to, if he isn't shown to have gotten them from Rey's head.

I certainly don't have everything figured out with the timeline in the least, lol, but I think that there is a possibility that Luke is "off somewhere" when Kylo arrives.  There have been rumors of him refusing to train Rey, of him just disappearing on her to go who knows where, rumors of Rey exploring the island alone *and* there is that shot from the BTS where Luke does look like he is going to go on some hiking trip somewhere. 

Also, like you were saying, filming ended a year ago, and we have forgotten a lot.  But there was good evidence that there were some hidden filming locations in Ireland.  There was stuff about Luke meditating before some rock.  Maybe that is supposed to be somewhere away from Rey. Also, remember that possible Jedi temple looking building that they had at Pinewood.  Is that building supposed to be on Ahch-to or somewhere else? Could Luke go to another island and just leave Rey there so he can ponder Rey's place in the force or whatever?

So if Luke does leave for a while ... while Luke is gone, Kylo turns up ... and all kinds of things get said and he tells her some home truths about Luke and about what might be hidden on that island ... and maybe what he says jibes with her visions and what she has sensed about Luke ... and she and he become reluctant allies ... and they search for something in a cave or whatever ... and then Luke suddenly returns, sees Kylo, blows up the hut and all hell breaks loose and Rey, Kylo and Chewie really need to leave.

I think a lot of people think that Mark is going to be all over this movie.  I don't think he is.  He said for months that he was a supporting player and that is wasn't his movie anymore.  As such, I think it's possible that Luke will be around with Rey alone at the beginning, leave the scene for a while, come back for hut blowing madness and then disappear for a while. Then I think that he will turn up in a huge way during the third act somehow.  I mean if that Rey vision of lightsabers and fighting in the snowy woods and a man says "I promise I'll be back sweetheart" comes to pass in TLJ, and if that guy is Kylo, that is going to take place towards the end ... and that might be a moment where some serious sith goes down with Luke and Kylo/Ben.

@SoloSideCousin

I also think that there might be a possibility that Luke is "off somewhere" when Kylo shows up. Luke is nowhere around when Rey is charging down that beach with that lightsaber. And as you pointed out, there's that BTS shot where Luke is in his brown robes and appears to be "going somewhere" while Rey is still in her Resistance outfit. Not to mention all of the various solo shots of Rey around Ahch-To from the trailer, BTS, and VF shoot. It definitely looks like she'll be spending some time exploring the island on her own.

If they are going to pair Rey and Kylo up as allies, if not romantically in TLJ, giving them some "alone time" to sort things out and start to understand each other (without Luke around) would certainly be the easiest way to go about that. Heck, give us one scene showing them staying up all night talking together in one of the beehive huts, and it would take their relationship miles from where it started.

I had thought that Mark would be a supporting player (leaving the door open for Luke unintentionally leaving Rey and Kylo alone for a stretch), but I'll admit that I'm having my doubts about that, given the "Rey and Luke's relationship is the beating heart/key relationship," etc. That means that either Luke and Rey are going to spend a ton of time together, or Luke is going to be Rey's antagonist, IMO.

I'm with you in that I highly doubt Luke will leave Ahch-To on the Falcon with Rey and Chewie. They're going to make a huge deal out of him raising up that X-wing and choosing to leave when he realizes that he needs to do so. I could even see him reprising Han's role from ANH and emerging out of nowhere in the final battle to save someone. Or if they go with the Dark(er) Luke scenario, it'll be like you describe--and if Kylo/Ben really is the "stay there sweetheart" voice (on Crait)...*shivers*

@ISeeAnIsland

Kylo in many ways was the heart of TFA even though he significantly less screen time than say Rey or Finn. So I think Luke could play a similar role, or could maybe be like Vader, kind of hovering over every moment.

In the end I always go back to the teaser poster. Until we see something that really contradicts that, I think the movie is going to all about Rey being in this fork in the road between Kylo/Ben and Luke ... and not just between them personally, but between their philosophies. Just like John just said in his interview, everyone needs to figure out what they believe and what they're fighting for.

Rey is going into this thinking that Luke is this legendary figure, with that naive "You're with the Resistance", "The Jedi were real," and "You're Han Solo" way of hers, where almost like a child she thinks these legendary people have all the answers. And I think she is going to (1) have that childhood delusion of heroes smashed and realize their is no all wise person, (2) that things in real life are never simple, never just black and white, (3) that the villain in black may have his good qualities and may even be someone a little heroic from a certain point of view, and (4) she is going to have to piece this all together and find her own way ... and that way may not be the way everyone chooses.

Luke and Kylo are the major catalyst for all that self discovery. In the end it comes down to the poster, she is between Luke and Kylo's worlds and will have something major to contribute to both of them.

As for Rian saying that Luke and Rey are the heartbeat, I think that's true ... but I think that it's not just a duo, but a trio, but Kylo is being treated like the silent partner right now because they don't even want to mention Kylo, because to mention him will lead to questions about him, and there are just a lot of secrets there. Luke is safer to talk about because even though I am sure he has huge secrets, the doesn't "look like" he has secrets, whereas Kylo really does seem to be one big secret.

Also, being one of the people who is currently expecting a pretty messed up/darkish Luke, I don't think she will start with Luke as her antagonist, but by the end of the movie she will get there, and by the end, everything she thought she could count on is turned upside down, and support might come from the most unexpected places.

I keep thinking of one of the earliest episodes of Scrubs. JD has this SW themed daydream where he thinks Kelso is like the good, Obi-Wan one and Cox being a jerk is like Vader. But then he realizes Kelso is awful under the kindly veneer, and suddenly JD is kind of bereft, wondering "who's the hero?" And then realizes that despite being extremely flawed and being a pretty big jacka** (sound familiar, lol), that Dr. Cox really is the hero ... super imperfect, but heroic. Obviously, SW is not Scrubs, but there is a similarity of both JD and Rey having their "welcome to how it really is ... where nothing is simple" moment.

Seriously, I love that teaser poster so much with mean Luke and sad, boyish Ben, lol. It affects so much of my viewpoint because it just seems to crystallize things. :-)

Cowgirlsamurai wrote:

nemapasara wrote:@WhatGirl @Cowgirlsamurai

Is it possible that maybe it's just safety protocol that she does a clean dive into the tank instead of being pushed off by someone or just falling in? I'm not too sure how it usually works though so I could be wrong.

@nemapasara

I have nooo idea about that kind of thing. Maybe the "dive" will appear differently on screen. But then there was that "dive" where she's attached to cables? Is that going to be her getting pulled from the water? Maybe these shots are all going to be played backwards

@Cowgirlsamurai

I didn't know about the dive where she was attached to cables.  Was that something from a behind the scenes photo or something like that?

SoloSideCousin wrote:As for Rian saying that Luke and Rey are the heartbeat, I think that's true ... but I think that it's not just a duo, but a trio, but Kylo is being treated like the silent partner right now because they don't even want to mention Kylo, because to mention him will lead to questions about him, and there are just a lot of secrets there. Luke is safer to talk about because even though I am sure he has huge secrets, the doesn't "look like" he has secrets, whereas Kylo really does seem to be one big secret.

I always thought that too, that the heartbeat of the film is really the three of them (they are in the teaser poster for a reason!) but Rian did´t mention Kylo because questions might arise. Plus the code so far seems to be to avoid to talk about Kylo/Adam at any cost. Hopefully by November/December we will get to see Adam at some events finally!

Kyla Ren wrote:

Cowgirlsamurai wrote:

nemapasara wrote:@WhatGirl @Cowgirlsamurai

Is it possible that maybe it's just safety protocol that she does a clean dive into the tank instead of being pushed off by someone or just falling in? I'm not too sure how it usually works though so I could be wrong.

@nemapasara

I have nooo idea about that kind of thing. Maybe the "dive" will appear differently on screen. But then there was that "dive" where she's attached to cables? Is that going to be her getting pulled from the water? Maybe these shots are all going to be played backwards

@Cowgirlsamurai

I didn't know about the dive where she was attached to cables.  Was that something from a behind the scenes photo or something like that?

@Kyla Ren

Here's a still of that shot. It doesn't necessarily look like she's diving into water, but she is hooked up to bungee cables.



If you watch the BTS video, this particular shot takes place at 2:05:

SoloSideCousin wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland

Kylo in many ways was the heart of TFA even though he significantly less screen time than say Rey or Finn. So I think Luke could play a similar role, or could maybe be like Vader, kind of hovering over every moment.

In the end I always go back to the teaser poster. Until we see something that really contradicts that, I think the movie is going to all about Rey being in this fork in the road between Kylo/Ben and Luke ... and not just between them personally, but between their philosophies. Just like John just said in his interview, everyone needs to figure out what they believe and what they're fighting for.

Rey is going into this thinking that Luke is this legendary figure, with that naive "You're with the Resistance", "The Jedi were real," and "You're Han Solo" way of hers, where almost like a child she thinks these legendary people have all the answers. And I think she is going to (1) have that childhood delusion of heroes smashed and realize their is no all wise person, (2) that things in real life are never simple, never just black and white, (3) that the villain in black may have his good qualities and may even be someone a little heroic from a certain point of view, and (4) she is going to have to piece this all together and find her own way ... and that way may not be the way everyone chooses.

Luke and Kylo are the major catalyst for all that self discovery. In the end it comes down to the poster, she is between Luke and Kylo's worlds and will have something major to contribute to both of them.

As for Rian saying that Luke and Rey are the heartbeat, I think that's true ... but I think that it's not just a duo, but a trio, but Kylo is being treated like the silent partner right now because they don't even want to mention Kylo, because to mention him will lead to questions about him, and there are just a lot of secrets there. Luke is safer to talk about because even though I am sure he has huge secrets, the doesn't "look like" he has secrets, whereas Kylo really does seem to be one big secret.

Also, being one of the people who is currently expecting a pretty messed up/darkish Luke, I don't think she will start with Luke as her antagonist, but by the end of the movie she will get there, and by the end, everything she thought she could count on is turned upside down, and support might come from the most unexpected places.

I keep thinking of one of the earliest episodes of Scrubs. JD has this SW themed daydream where he thinks Kelso is like the good, Obi-Wan one and Cox being a jerk is like Vader. But then he realizes Kelso is awful under the kindly veneer, and suddenly JD is kind of bereft, wondering "who's the hero?" And then realizes that despite being extremely flawed and being a pretty big jacka** (sound familiar, lol), that Dr. Cox really is the hero ... super imperfect, but heroic. Obviously, SW is not Scrubs, but there is a similarity of both JD and Rey having their "welcome to how it really is ... where nothing is simple" moment.

Seriously, I love that teaser poster so much with mean Luke and sad, boyish Ben, lol. It affects so much of my viewpoint because it just seems to crystallize things. :-)

@SoloSideCousin

I needed this post.

In trying to dig up interesting things to share here, I've been hanging out way too many other places online that are really skeptical of Luke being anything worse than a reluctant mentor who initially doesn't want to train Rey but then comes around. And when I trust my own gut/eyes, that isn't want I think we're getting.

And yes, that teaser poster is life! It's framed and hanging in my living room, and I smile every time I walk past it. There are reasons why KK and Rian were drawn to that poster out of the 40 other options!

I'd say we'd be very likely to get the "reluctant mentor who comes around" story if a) Kylo's character didn't exist or was a completely straightforward villain, and b) there weren't all those hints about shocking secrets.

I'm personally sceptical about the scenarios where Rey and Kylo outright team up, or Rey takes Kylo back to the Resistance, but at the very least the Rey-Luke-Kylo dynamic will get complicated.