TLJ - Nailing down the timeline (NO SPOILERS)

reylo1992 wrote:

Like you, I find that shot of Kylo with the troops on Crait too odd. We have two and a half hours movie so it is possible that Kylo leads the troops on Crait at the beginning of  the movie. Maybe there is an invasion on Crait by the FO at the beginning of the movie.

Still, does it make sense to show Kylo leading the troops with such Vader style although the elevator scene makes it clear that there is already conflict within him right from the beginning? Plus, Kylo is going to move a lot during the movie: he will be on Supremacy first, then involved in the Space Battle on D'Qar, then he'll surely go to Ahch-To, then maybe back on the Supremacy and finally on Crait. So he is probably the character who will travel the most during this episode. IMO, it is a little too much to see him a first time  leading the troops on Crait at the beginning on the movie.

Then, there is also the question of the timing. If we assume that Kylo and Rey will genuinely bond on Ahch-To, the question is what is going to happen next.  Does it make sense to have them separated with Rey going to the Resistance with Leia and Kylo coming back to the FO although he didn't kill ama nor brought the girl to Snoke?  My feeling is that it doesn't make much sense to have them going on Crait, then assaulting Supremacy and then back on Crait separated. So I think that it will begin on Supremacy with Finn and Rose assaulting the destroyer, Rey tortured by Snoke in the Throne Room  and Kylo  fighting the Pretorian guards with her. So in any case, it makes no sense to have Kylo leading the troops on Crait before Rey is tortured by Snoke in the throne room and it makes even less sense if this happens after the torture since he is supposed to fight the Pretorian guards.


And beyond this, what strikes me the most is the costume and physical evolution. We know thanks to the BTS trailer that Finn's journey in TLJ will end on Crait since he is wearing the FO grey trouser but and grey jacket on Supremacy. As for Rey, she is wearing her new outfit in Snoke's throne room but has no bruise on her forehead:

However, it seems that both of them ends up  the movie won Crait since Finn wears the FO grey trouser without the grey jacket and we know from an official footage that he will have a bruise on his forehead. Plus, it seems that he shares a scene with Rey on Crait who wears a new outfit but has a bruise on her forehead too contrary to the Throne room:

So if we link the BTS trailer and the final trailer together, my feeling is that we shouldn't worry that much about Rey's fate in TLJ?  It suggest that she  will be on Supremacy first with Kylo and then end up on Crait with Finn and the Resistance, which suggest that she will be rather  fine despite the torture scene and obviously not in the mood to turn to the DS contrary to what the final trailer let us think. However, it seems that Kylo and Rey's path will get separated there if we assume that everybody will meet on Crait for the final stage of the battle and that he is indeed leading the troops.

And so talking about the costume evolution, I would repeat the same thing as in my previous post. The film is long but there aren't a lot of scene where Kylo wears the Vader cape. The only footage that I found is for Snoke's meeting. However, he already doesn't wear it anymore in the elevator scene. So, there is also a costume evolution that allow us to follow his track and the evolution of his trajectory:
- Snoke's throne room: mask + cape + belt

- Snoke's throne room: mask + no cape anymore

- Elevator scene: no cape anymore  + no mask anymore + belt + plaster

- Hangar: no cape + no mask + belt

- Space battle: no cape+ no mask + belt + plaster

- Ahch-To : no cape anymore; no cape + no mask + no plaster anymore + no belt anymore + soft expression

- Somewhere on a ship/base: no cape + no mask + no plaster +soft expression


So I ask myself where does that shot fit in all of this  (and it definitely looks like Crait) ?

It looks really like Kylo is walking like a confident leader there and  in big Vader style with the cape. Unless he is indeed on Crait at the beginning of the movie for an invasion on Crait, it makes no sense right now to have him leading the troops like this, especially if we consider that this is supposed to happen after he saved Rey from the Snoke and the Pretorian guards and Rey is safe on Crait with Finn and the Resistance. So the possibility that someone else is actually leading the troops becomes heavily possible IMO. It can't be Hux because it is clearly someone with dark hairs and a cape. Still, it was confirmed that Kylo is supposed to wear a Vader cape since there were promo pictures of him with the cape.

Darth_Awakened wrote:The thing with Rey's bruises is interesting.

It's clear that she hasn't one in the Throne room with Snoke.
Finally the only real photo of Rey with the bruises comes from BTS video with Daisy and John dancing, which doesn't mean automatically they're in the same sequence that had been filmed that day.

IoJovi wrote:

Darth_Awakened wrote:The thing with Rey's bruises is interesting.

It's clear that she hasn't one in the Throne room with Snoke.
Finally the only real photo of Rey with the bruises comes from BTS video with Daisy and John dancing, which doesn't mean automatically they're in the same sequence that had been filmed that day.

@Darth_Awakened

This reinforces my theory that Rey in the throne room with Snoke is actually a "Force-bondy" moment between her and Kylo Ren - he's actually the one going through that torture and she's feeling his pain.

ISeeanIsland wrote:I'm trying to envision when a time jump would take place. Does Rian show that first conversation between Rey and Luke and then fast-forward a few weeks/months? I guess that would make sense with the KoR ship crash supposedly happening relatively early in the movie--it would give both Finn and Kylo a chance to heal a bit.

Snufkin wrote:They'd have to do a time jump to account for the conversation with also enough time for both men to recover from their fight injuries without wasting a lot of onscreen time. Or they could use the technique Cary Fukinaga did for Jane Eyre. Instead of following the chronological narrative from the novel, he starts at the point where Jane escapes Thornfield, wanders/almost dies on the moors, and then meets St. John Rivers and his sisters. At that point it cuts back and forth between the "present" and her backstory of her childhood and meeting/leaving Rochester. When the narrative points meet up is when the story moves forward into the climax. It's a very smart way of covering all of the backstory without getting bogged down in exposition and having to move from Point A to Point B.

BastilaBey wrote:@snufkin That was exactly what I was thinking about a time jump too! It's very Rian Johnson, and reminds me of when Jason at mSW said something like 'we don't know how it gets there', when talking about something Rey thinks or feels. We would see how it got there, but he'd be playing with time to draw attention to that marked change.

This type of thing is something I was wondering about recently in terms of how easy it's gonna be for teams like mSW to attempt to piece the narrative together. It's probably not going to be A leads to B, in the way we're used to watching Star Wars.

Snufkin wrote:@BastilaBey

Yeah! I quickly got bored with Lost for a variety of reasons (over reliance on Mystery Box and time jumps were more style than substance) but Fukinaga really did an amazing job using time jump to tell a familiar story in a way that covers the plot points without getting bogged down w/exposition and moving from Point A to Point B. Even more effective is that it presents the story explicitly from Jane's psychological point of view. Although I can't exactly trash the classic Joan Fontaine version because Aldous Huxley wrote the screenplay.  But it would do a great job of not wasting time on scenes of Poe (or Hux) sitting around a hospital room waiting for one of the main players to get better. Plus we know there has to be a full explanation of Ben's backstory because that was very deliberately withheld from TFA but with hints galore that what you see isn't exactly what you get.

I was curious about this technique and found a great executive summary

The Six Sorts of Parallel Narratives

There are six sorts of parallel narrative at the moment, plus hybrids, and we can expect more hybridization. The six drop into two main categories: films that use time jumps and films that don't. This page gives you a brief overview of each form (with the focus on structure).  Scroll down to find the sort you need. To find the sort of story material that suits each type of parallel narrative, go to Which parallel narrative structure suits my script?

For general information and reminders about handling parallel narrative go to

Parallel Narrative  

Blog

Large cast, multiple storylines but linear (no time jumps)There are three forms

Tandem narrative
Multiple protagonist narrative
Double journey narrative

Often these films are known as 'ensemble films' .

Darth_Awakened wrote:The thing with Rey's bruises is interesting.

It's clear that she hasn't one in the Throne room with Snoke.
Finally the only real photo of Rey with the bruises comes from BTS video with Daisy and John dancing, which doesn't mean automatically they're in the same sequence that had been filmed that day.

Darth_Awakened wrote:@snufkin

There's no way we'll get a straightforward chronological version of events, I'am aware of it.
However the speculation itself is a fun at least for me.

vaderito wrote:

Darth_Awakened wrote:@snufkin

There's no way we'll get a straightforward chronological version of events, I'am aware of it.
However the speculation itself is a fun at least for me.

@Darth_Awakened

well, we know generally that

Act 1

D'Qar - everyone but Luke and Rey
Ahch-to - Luke and Rey
Canto Bight - Finn, Rose, DJ
Supremacy - Kylo, Snoke, Hux, likely Phasma

Act 2

Ahch-to - Luke, Rey, Kylo?
Supremacy - Finn and Rose, Phasma, Rey? Kylo? Snoke?
Crait? - Leia, Poe

Act 3

Crait - so far, we only haven't seen Luke and I guess Snoke wouldn't dirty his golden silk.
Supremacy? - Snoke

Mrs Ben Solo wrote:Remember Rian Johnson said TLJ has the least amount of screen wipes of any Star Wars movie (12 or something?) Does this mean less jumping around in the action?

She lets on that we’ll find out more about what has happened to her family, and says it goes from being a physical journey with a friend (Finn, played by John Boyega) to an emotional journey with a stranger (Luke Skywalker, whom she meets on top of a mountainous island at the end of The Force Awakens). “More of a conversation, as opposed to a big adventure,” she suggests.

ReyofLightSide wrote:What if the caped figure in front of the stormtroopers is NOT Kylo?

Also, I wonder if we don't see a lot with Rey and her bruises because it is from the end of the movie when they fight the Praetorian Guards?
Maybe that's one of the last scenes, and she and Kylo leave?

vaderito wrote:

ReyofLightSide wrote:What if the caped figure in front of the stormtroopers is NOT Kylo?

Also, I wonder if we don't see a lot with Rey and her bruises because it is from the end of the movie when they fight the Praetorian Guards?
Maybe that's one of the last scenes, and she and Kylo leave?

@ReyofLightSide

it's him. Watch in full screen. It's him w/o mask.

DarthRen wrote:From The Last Jedi Trailers thread and valid for this to determine the timeline.

reylo1992 wrote:

Like you, I find that shot of Kylo with the troops on Crait too odd. We have two and a half hours movie so it is possible that Kylo leads the troops on Crait at the beginning of  the movie. Maybe there is an invasion on Crait by the FO at the beginning of the movie.

Still, does it make sense to show Kylo leading the troops with such Vader style although the elevator scene makes it clear that there is already conflict within him right from the beginning? Plus, Kylo is going to move a lot during the movie: he will be on Supremacy first, then involved in the Space Battle on D'Qar, then he'll surely go to Ahch-To, then maybe back on the Supremacy and finally on Crait. So he is probably the character who will travel the most during this episode. IMO, it is a little too much to see him a first time  leading the troops on Crait at the beginning on the movie.

Then, there is also the question of the timing. If we assume that Kylo and Rey will genuinely bond on Ahch-To, the question is what is going to happen next.  Does it make sense to have them separated with Rey going to the Resistance with Leia and Kylo coming back to the FO although he didn't kill ama nor brought the girl to Snoke?  My feeling is that it doesn't make much sense to have them going on Crait, then assaulting Supremacy and then back on Crait separated. So I think that it will begin on Supremacy with Finn and Rose assaulting the destroyer, Rey tortured by Snoke in the Throne Room  and Kylo  fighting the Pretorian guards with her. So in any case, it makes no sense to have Kylo leading the troops on Crait before Rey is tortured by Snoke in the throne room and it makes even less sense if this happens after the torture since he is supposed to fight the Pretorian guards.


And beyond this, what strikes me the most is the costume and physical evolution. We know thanks to the BTS trailer that Finn's journey in TLJ will end on Crait since he is wearing the FO grey trouser but and grey jacket on Supremacy. As for Rey, she is wearing her new outfit in Snoke's throne room but has no bruise on her forehead:

However, it seems that both of them ends up  the movie won Crait since Finn wears the FO grey trouser without the grey jacket and we know from an official footage that he will have a bruise on his forehead. Plus, it seems that he shares a scene with Rey on Crait who wears a new outfit but has a bruise on her forehead too contrary to the Throne room:

So if we link the BTS trailer and the final trailer together, my feeling is that we shouldn't worry that much about Rey's fate in TLJ?  It suggest that she  will be on Supremacy first with Kylo and then end up on Crait with Finn and the Resistance, which suggest that she will be rather  fine despite the torture scene and obviously not in the mood to turn to the DS contrary to what the final trailer let us think. However, it seems that Kylo and Rey's path will get separated there if we assume that everybody will meet on Crait for the final stage of the battle and that he is indeed leading the troops.

And so talking about the costume evolution, I would repeat the same thing as in my previous post. The film is long but there aren't a lot of scene where Kylo wears the Vader cape. The only footage that I found is for Snoke's meeting. However, he already doesn't wear it anymore in the elevator scene. So, there is also a costume evolution that allow us to follow his track and the evolution of his trajectory:
- Snoke's throne room: mask + cape + belt

- Snoke's throne room: mask + no cape anymore

- Elevator scene: no cape anymore  + no mask anymore + belt + plaster

- Hangar: no cape + no mask + belt

- Space battle: no cape+ no mask + belt + plaster

- Ahch-To : no cape anymore; no cape + no mask + no plaster anymore + no belt anymore + soft expression

- Somewhere on a ship/base: no cape + no mask + no plaster +soft expression


So I ask myself where does that shot fit in all of this  (and it definitely looks like Crait) ?

It looks really like Kylo is walking like a confident leader there and  in big Vader style with the cape. Unless he is indeed on Crait at the beginning of the movie for an invasion on Crait, it makes no sense right now to have him leading the troops like this, especially if we consider that this is supposed to happen after he saved Rey from the Snoke and the Pretorian guards and Rey is safe on Crait with Finn and the Resistance. So the possibility that someone else is actually leading the troops becomes heavily possible IMO. It can't be Hux because it is clearly someone with dark hairs and a cape. Still, it was confirmed that Kylo is supposed to wear a Vader cape since there were promo pictures of him with the cape.

@reylo1992

That shot of Kylo with Stormtroopers is really odd. It is Kylo thanks to his cape and his shuttle is presented at the battle too. Like you said, could it be somewhere earlier and on different part of Crait, not where is the main battle? LIke LOTR style Battle of Helm's Deep, Isengard sequence or in The Retutn of The King Frodo/Sam/Gollum ... mainle battle for Minas Tirith including sacrifice of Faramir and Pelennor Fields.

Crait must be around or just after Snoke's SDD.

Rey has no bruises on her face and nor what looked injury on her left arm via lightsaber. Only option would be Kylo or Luke ... unless there is a third party. If our mini theory about Snoke possessing Kylo's body and soul. Maybe this is part of it but it's a crackpot theory atthis point.



Could it be that Rey and Kylo fight PG on Supremacy, separated and Rey gets there at Crait with Finn and possibly Rose. Crashes on Crait and has that bruise and then some sort of fight tied up to those kyber crystals? Seems important and as @SoloSideCousin whole theme of posters is red, like those crystals.

Darth_Awakened wrote:

vaderito wrote:

ReyofLightSide wrote:What if the caped figure in front of the stormtroopers is NOT Kylo?

Also, I wonder if we don't see a lot with Rey and her bruises because it is from the end of the movie when they fight the Praetorian Guards?
Maybe that's one of the last scenes, and she and Kylo leave?

@ReyofLightSide

it's him. Watch in full screen. It's him w/o mask.

@vaderito

Yeah, it's him. But as with all of the things before it always ends with the character's motivation. That particular scene looks like and I think it's a visual callback to Anakin's marching into Jedi Temple. In the Kyo's marching scene we don't see his face, so there's hard to tell what he has on mind.
I must admit I was afraid of Kylo being involved in the battle of D Qar, also all of the The Silencer toy box sets described Kylo as being pumped to bring Resistance down. And what we got of D Qar battle in the trailer: Kylo breaking and crying in the cockpit.

vaderito wrote:

Darth_Awakened wrote:

vaderito wrote:

ReyofLightSide wrote:What if the caped figure in front of the stormtroopers is NOT Kylo?

Also, I wonder if we don't see a lot with Rey and her bruises because it is from the end of the movie when they fight the Praetorian Guards?
Maybe that's one of the last scenes, and she and Kylo leave?

@ReyofLightSide

it's him. Watch in full screen. It's him w/o mask.

@vaderito

Yeah, it's him. But as with all of the things before it always ends with the character's motivation. That particular scene looks like and I think it's a visual callback to Anakin's marching into Jedi Temple. In the Kyo's marching scene we don't see his face, so there's hard to tell what he has on mind.
I must admit I was afraid of Kylo being involved in the battle of D Qar, also all of the The Silencer toy box sets described Kylo as being pumped to bring Resistance down. And what we got of D Qar battle in the trailer: Kylo breaking and crying in the cockpit.

@Darth_Awakened

Crylo Ren, exactly what old-school fanboys were hoping to see.

OMG, for some unfathomable reason, the trailer resurrected Snoke Plagueis! It's a thing again!

Darth_Awakened wrote:  

I've noticed that. WTF?!

vaderito wrote:

Darth_Awakened wrote:

vaderito wrote:

ReyofLightSide wrote:What if the caped figure in front of the stormtroopers is NOT Kylo?

Also, I wonder if we don't see a lot with Rey and her bruises because it is from the end of the movie when they fight the Praetorian Guards?
Maybe that's one of the last scenes, and she and Kylo leave?

@ReyofLightSide

it's him. Watch in full screen. It's him w/o mask.

@vaderito

Yeah, it's him. But as with all of the things before it always ends with the character's motivation. That particular scene looks like and I think it's a visual callback to Anakin's marching into Jedi Temple. In the Kyo's marching scene we don't see his face, so there's hard to tell what he has on mind.
I must admit I was afraid of Kylo being involved in the battle of D Qar, also all of the The Silencer toy box sets described Kylo as being pumped to bring Resistance down. And what we got of D Qar battle in the trailer: Kylo breaking and crying in the cockpit.

@Darth_Awakened

Crylo Ren, exactly what old-school fanboys were hoping to see.

OMG, for some unfathomable reason, the trailer resurrected Snoke Plagueis! It's a thing again!

DarthRen wrote:He could seek to cheat the death, I mean Snoke doesn't look like in the best of conditions. People wrongfully are saying Snoke IS Darth Plageuis but he might seek the same goal, hence why Plageuis figure. He's using Kylo for his raw powers and must have some bigger goal for these powers, he seeks Rey for these kind of powers too. Pure, untamed, both the Light and Dark.