TLJ - Nailing down the timeline (NO SPOILERS)

vaderito wrote:

DarthRen wrote:He could seek to cheat the death, I mean Snoke doesn't look like in the best of conditions. People wrongfully are saying Snoke IS Darth Plageuis but he might seek the same goal, hence why Plageuis figure. He's using Kylo for his raw powers and must have some bigger goal for these powers, he seeks Rey for these kind of powers too. Pure, untamed, both the Light and Dark.

@DarthRen

Snoke just wants to be young and pretty. But yes, I can see him trying to extend his life or regain his strength by using Rey and Kylo.

@vaderito

Someone on reddit made this thread, interesting at least. Worth reading.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsspeculation/comments/763c6n/theres_like_a_99_chance_that_snoke_is_plagueis/

vaderito wrote:

Darth_Awakened wrote:@snufkin

There's no way we'll get  a straightforward chronological version of events, I'am aware of it.
However the speculation itself is a fun at least for me.  

@Darth_Awakened

well, we know generally that

Act 1

D'Qar - everyone but Luke and Rey
Ahch-to - Luke and Rey
Canto Bight - Finn, Rose, DJ
Supremacy - Kylo, Snoke, Hux, likely Phasma

Act 2

Ahch-to - Luke, Rey, Kylo?
Supremacy - Finn and Rose, Phasma,  Rey? Kylo? Snoke?
Crait? - Leia, Poe

Act 3

Crait - so far, we only haven't seen Luke and I guess Snoke wouldn't dirty his golden silk.
Supremacy? - Snoke

@vaderito

About Act 3:

The question that I ask myself is why Snoke would show up with Supremacy near the battle. In TFA, he was commanding everything from far away. Coming to Crait with Supremacy is already a big risk to take if we consider that the ship is gonna explode at the end of the movie At least, I suppose that this is Supremacy that exploses since Finn and Rose go to infiltrate there. That reinforce my feeling that Snoke has something important to achieve. Otherwise, he could just let Hux and Phasma lead the battle and kick the a** of the Resistance like the Empire did with the Rebel Alliance on Hoth. Plus, if we consider that Supremacy exploses and the battle continues after - since at least Finn ends up there with his FO costume but wiithout the grey jacket that he wears while fighting Phasma - then where is Snoke going to go? Plus, I can't imagine that despite the explosion of Supremacy, the FO is gonna lose the battle against the Resistance. It makes no sense if we consider that this is the second movie of the trilogy and that everything is gonna turn red.  So IMO Snoke will have to show up on Crait at some point and find a way to defeat the Resistance. Otherwise, I don't see the point to have a giant battle there with the big villain coming personally to supervise. That would mean waste a lot of things for nothing.

I’ve been looking through some of the BTS photos Rian took as well as what I assume are actual stills from the movie...







The top two seem to be a BTS plus a production still of Rey and Chewie in the Falcon. It looks like Rey has the forehead bruise (in the B&W BTS shot) so where does this fit? 3rd act Crait?

Are the Finn and Rey stills side by side to hint at their reuinion? Is that why Rey is smiling? She has her ‘Jedi training’ outfit on but no forehead bruise there. Finn looks pretty beat up and has taken off or lost his jacket.

The next one looks like the transport window Poe was looking out of in the trailer. Are we presuming this is the D’qar evacuation?

The last one is from the BTS reel and appears to show Kylo trailing Hux with his cape on and no black bandaid over his scar. Is this aboard The Supremacy? Is it after the D’qar battle and before Ahch-To or does it fit with the trailer scene of Kylo and the stormtroopers presumably on Crait?

I think Ach-to is like Dagobah in that time works different from the rest of the galaxy. I asked Pablo this question and he said that maybe we will see in December, which makes me think Yes. If so, there will be plenty of time for Rey and Kylo to get to know each other on Ach-to.

Also, I mentioned on another page that I heard a rumor that Mustafar my be visited in TLJ. The picture with Kylo waking with storm troopers through could be a flash back, since we will be getting some of these. The picture of him with his mask does not make sense on Crait since is smashed it, unless he has another one.

bashfulblueeyes3 wrote:Also, I mentioned on another page that I heard a rumor that Mustafar my be visited in TLJ. The picture with Kylo waking with storm troopers through could be a flash back, since we will be getting some of these. The picture of him with his mask does not make sense on Crait since is smashed it, unless he has another one.

@bashfulblueeyes3

Knowing Kylo is such a Vader fanboy, mustafar is not out of questions but Knights of Ren would probably be more appropriate or some personal guards, not regulat stormtroopers.

Mrs Ben Solo wrote:I’ve been looking through some of the BTS photos Rian took as well as what I assume are actual stills from the movie...







The top two seem to be a BTS plus a production still of Rey and Chewie in the Falcon. It looks like Rey has the forehead bruise (in the B&W BTS shot) so where does this fit? 3rd act Crait?

Are the Finn and Rey stills side by side to hint at their reuinion? Is that why Rey is smiling? She has her ‘Jedi training’ outfit on but no forehead bruise there. Finn looks pretty beat up and has taken off or lost his jacket.

The next one looks like the transport window Poe was looking out of in the trailer. Are we presuming this is the D’qar evacuation?

The last one is from the BTS reel and appears to show Kylo trailing Hux with his cape on and no black bandaid over his scar. Is this aboard The Supremacy? Is it after the D’qar battle and before Ahch-To or does it fit with the trailer scene of Kylo and the stormtroopers presumably on Crait?

@Mrs Ben Solo

Maybe Rey gets the bruise escaping the Supremacy and probably takes Finn (and Rose?) along with her on the MF to Crait (It would explain the image with a bruised Finn as well who might have been fighting Phasma and the rumor of someone shouting 'The Jedi is coming' before Phasma fights someone with her spear). Kylo might free from Snoke's clutches so that they can rescue his mother who is making her last stand on Crait.

The smiling Rey one might happen earlier on...I'm hoping its when she and Kylo are traveling together at some point of time between Ahch-to and the Supremacy.

The Poe one might be later on in the movie as he is wearing the Captain Jacket and not his flightsuit so the timeline might be after his demotion. There is an old MSW rumor of an evacuation of a lot of people (not D'Qar) by Poe and Holdo....and these escape vessels seem to be traveling with Mon Calamari ships like the Raddus which we haven't seen with the resistance- the mon calamari ships are linked to the new republic so this has to happen after the New Republic and Resistance band together. I think this could be either where Leia gets hurt (unlikely since she is alive and well on Crait) or Holdo's leadership strategy backfires in some way (more likely) and Poe makes that big speech, taking over.

Kylo's scar confuses me completely....the only explanation I can think of is that Snoke re-opens Kylo's injury for showing too much compassion (hence the bruising on his face when he is wearing the space band-aid in his TIE)...it could also explain Rey's bruises and arm injury as well (maybe Snoke has some power to tear into people's flesh? This would definitely make people take him seriously as a baddie)

Mrs Ben Solo wrote:I’ve been looking through some of the BTS photos Rian took as well as what I assume are actual stills from the movie...







The top two seem to be a BTS plus a production still of Rey and Chewie in the Falcon. It looks like Rey has the forehead bruise (in the B&W BTS shot) so where does this fit? 3rd act Crait?

Are the Finn and Rey stills side by side to hint at their reuinion? Is that why Rey is smiling? She has her ‘Jedi training’ outfit on but no forehead bruise there. Finn looks pretty beat up and has taken off or lost his jacket.

The next one looks like the transport window Poe was looking out of in the trailer. Are we presuming this is the D’qar evacuation?

The last one is from the BTS reel and appears to show Kylo trailing Hux with his cape on and no black bandaid over his scar. Is this aboard The Supremacy? Is it after the D’qar battle and before Ahch-To or does it fit with the trailer scene of Kylo and the stormtroopers presumably on Crait?

@Mrs Ben Solo

Hmm, looking at Kylo trailing Hux and it seems like a big change from their relation in TFA, looks like Hux has the upper hand now.  In TFA they were walking shoulder to shoulder and it felt like Kylo always were in a more powerful position, because of the mask and unpredictability (except that talk with Snoke about Rey without the mask and still they were standing together side-by-side). Kylo has lost his power position in the FO at that point? His stance just looks so helpless.

An interesting video analysing the timeline, focusing on Rey's bruise


Totally agree with the guy. Unless it appears that the torture shot is actually a vision, Rey shall escape Snoke and then fight on Crait for the final stage of the battle. So the explosion on Supremacy with Finn vs. Phasma would take place before everybody (Rey, Finn, Rose?) go on Crait. Since Rey seems to be there with Finn (and Rose according to promo pictures), she will maybe escape with them. Really I am looking forward what is exactly going in the laps of time between the torture/fight on Supremacy and the landing on Crait.

reylo1992 wrote:An interesting video analysing the timeline, focusing on Rey's bruise


Totally agree with the guy. Unless it appears that the torture shot is actually a vision,  Rey shall escape Snoke and then fight on Crait for the final stage of the battle. So the explosion on Supremacy with Finn vs. Phasma would take place before everybody (Rey, Finn, Rose?) go on Crait. Since Rey seems to be there with Finn (and Rose according to promo pictures), she will maybe escape with them. Really I am looking forward what is exactly going in the laps of time between the torture/fight on Supremacy and the landing on Crait.

@reylo1992

You can see bruise on her head on MF with Chewie what Rian posted. Rey in BTS footage looked on her knees before Leia, who looks worried. Must be something about Kylo or Luke. Something has happened to them. Luke's role beyond Ach-To is unclear but Kylo will be on Supremacy, so something must've happend to him.

If Kylo helps Rey BTS footage, why is he on Crait with FO? There has to be some twist and alternate motive.

Not sure where this image was taken from, I found it on Twitter. Looks something like Luke’s trial in the Dagobah cave.



MSW also found more lines of dialogue from another range of toys where Luke says “I will show the ways of the Jedi” and Rey says something about the galaxy needing a legend. https://makingstarwars.net/2017/10/video-new-dialogue-rey-luke-star-wars-last-jedi/

DarthRen wrote:

reylo1992 wrote:An interesting video analysing the timeline, focusing on Rey's bruise


Totally agree with the guy. Unless it appears that the torture shot is actually a vision,  Rey shall escape Snoke and then fight on Crait for the final stage of the battle. So the explosion on Supremacy with Finn vs. Phasma would take place before everybody (Rey, Finn, Rose?) go on Crait. Since Rey seems to be there with Finn (and Rose according to promo pictures), she will maybe escape with them. Really I am looking forward what is exactly going in the laps of time between the torture/fight on Supremacy and the landing on Crait.

@reylo1992

You can see bruise on her head on MF with Chewie what Rian posted. Rey in BTS footage looked on her knees before Leia, who looks worried. Must be something about Kylo or Luke. Something has happened to them. Luke's role beyond Ach-To is unclear but Kylo will be on Supremacy, so something must've happend to him.

If Kylo helps Rey BTS footage, why is he on Crait with FO? There has to be some twist and alternate motive.

@DarthRen

I think Kylo will see Rey as the one hope to save his mother so he will help her escape with Finn to warn Leia- Rey may even ask him to join them as they leave but he will say he needs to stay back as he can do more for them being with the FO...maybe even asking Finn or Rey to wound him to make their escape convincing. (Rey will be emotionally wounded by his sacrifice)

Snoke might demand he goes out and wipe out the resistance.... it will be a sad moment because he will be stuck on the side of the first order having to put up a brave face and pretending to fight on Crait when he has technically already changed sides (the walk with the flametrooper takes on a whole new meaning where he is actually betraying the FO and saving the resistance unlike Anakin who took the same march to wipe out the jedi).....think agent Kallus in Rebels... Kylo will become like Fulcrum.

DarthRen wrote:

reylo1992 wrote:An interesting video analysing the timeline, focusing on Rey's bruise


Totally agree with the guy. Unless it appears that the torture shot is actually a vision,  Rey shall escape Snoke and then fight on Crait for the final stage of the battle. So the explosion on Supremacy with Finn vs. Phasma would take place before everybody (Rey, Finn, Rose?) go on Crait. Since Rey seems to be there with Finn (and Rose according to promo pictures), she will maybe escape with them. Really I am looking forward what is exactly going in the laps of time between the torture/fight on Supremacy and the landing on Crait.

@reylo1992

You can see bruise on her head on MF with Chewie what Rian posted. Rey in BTS footage looked on her knees before Leia, who looks worried. Must be something about Kylo or Luke. Something has happened to them. Luke's role beyond Ach-To is unclear but Kylo will be on Supremacy, so something must've happend to him.

If Kylo helps Rey BTS footage, why is he on Crait with FO? There has to be some twist and alternate motive.

@DarthRen

I didn't about that bruise on her forehead in the MF. Here is my scenario for the Act 3 :


For some unknown reason, Rey finds herself on Supremacy. I have no idea why she would go there and how exactly she is captured by Snoke. In any case, I consider that at this point the FO is going to attack the Resistance soon:
1) Finn and Rose go  to infiltrate Supremacy. They got important information on Canto Bright about an imminent attack on Crait. I see no point in having them back on a Resistance ship or on Crait before they go to infiltrate Supremacy. I don't either that they would land on the ship in the middle of the Space battle a la Anakin and Obi-Wan since Finn ain't a pilot, Rose is probably not either and Poe is on Crait. So let's consider that Finn and Rose will be enrolled as FO officer just after their mission on Canto Bright and thus are affected aboard Supremacy. Let's also consider that the goal of the infiltration mission to  make the ship explode before the FO can attack the Resistance on Crait.


2) The Space battle begin. Rey finds herself under Snoke's grip. I really myself how she would have fall under his grip. So let's imagine that scenario: Kylo and Rey leaves Ahch-To with Chewie and a Porg aboard the MF but they fall under the grip of the FO. Kylo has no other choice than letting the FO think that he actually captured prisoners, making the audience think that he betrayed her a little like Lando betrayed Han and Leia by the end. I ask myself if his turning point wouldn't happen precisely in front of this open space in a very similar way with Anakin. Let's consider that this shot of him happens as the FO is preparing for the battle on Crait:

Anakin is in deep introspection  in front of a big window in the Jedi Council room about a choice to make about Padme. He knows that the Jedi are gonna attack Palpatine and kill him. So let's suppose that Kylo is in deep introspection because he knows that Snoke is gonna torture her. In ROTS, the sundower represents the darkness coming with Anakin's decision. Facing this open space, Kylo is right in the middle between the darkness and the light but he is looking at the light. As the attack begins, Anakin finally shows up in Palpatine's room:  by the way this room looks very similar to Snoke's throne room.  Maybe, he would wear his mask so that the audience is led to think that he made the choice of Snoke over Rey (we already know that the poor kid can't hide his true emotions anyway so he better wears his mask)  

And then, the unexpected would happen:

That would a perfect reverse scene of ROTS: it begins with the torture (Snoke/Rey paralleling Palpatine/Windu), then the begging (Palpatine begging Anakin vs Rey begging Kylo), then the "betrayal" (Anakin attacks Winduto save Palpatine vs. Kylo attacks Snoke to save Rey). And thus Kylo indeed saves the girl who is begging him to help her contrary to Anakin who couldn't save Padme in the end. I would even suggest that before Kylo goes to save Rey, there is a calleback to the opening scene of TFA where he faces Finn and decides to let him go. Maybe that Kylo will openly feel Finn and Rose's presence and still let them pursue their infiltration. Meanwhile, Finn and Rose would manage to make Supremacy explose, maybe liberate Chewie and try to escape with the MF.  While trying to escape, they  are attacked by Phasma and the Stormtrooper:


3) Kylo and Rey fight Snoke/Pretorian guards as Finn fights Phasma/Stormtroopers.

The question is : what is happening to Kylo after this? It's difficult to imagine that Rey would leave alone so let's consider that they actually  try to find their way to escape the ship together a la Anakin and Obi-Wan as the ship is exploding:

I would  love to see Kylo and Rey in this situation


4) Kylo and Rey find Finn and Rose and try to escape. However, there must be something that make it impossible for Kylo to leave with them on the MF. Maybe Snoke is after them and Kylo urge Rey to leave with the others for some reason. It would be a nice callback to this TFA scene as Rey leaves SKB with Chewie and Finn but without Kylo:


5) This is where things begin to be strange because the battle on Crait begins and we have these two shots in the trailer that IMO are related: a space ship whose design looks like Kylo's flying among the ATAT and then a shot of Kylo leading the FO troops on Crait So the question is : what is happening to Kylo between his "betrayal' toward Snoke and his  landing on Crait? And more important: what is Snoke going to do after the explosion of Supremacy ? If we consider that the FO will win the battle in the end, then something decisive must happen on Crait. And once again, I can't imagine Snoke leaving the battle like that. So this is here that the mystery begins: how is it that Kylo leads FO troops after such a turning point toward Snoke?

6) We know that at some point, the MF will be pursued by the FO during the battle and fly inside the "center" of Crait. We know that Chewie and a Porg are inside but the question is: who is the pilot there? It can't be Finn! It can't be Poe since he is involved in the battle! So I would put my money on Rey since promo picture already show her inside with a bruise on her forehead. My feeling is that the biggest turning point of the battle will happen inside the planet. And my feeling is that this is where main characters (Snoke/Kylo, Rey, Finn, Luke?) will converge:

There is also the question to know when everybody comes outside. We know that Finn will end up the battle with his white jacket and bruise on his forehead although he has no bruise yet in this shot with Rey:


7) As in TFA, I bet the meeting with Leia would happen after the battle. Leia looks completely alone and in grief. Plus, if Rey is brought to Supremacy and espace the ship during the Space battle, there is no way she would have met Leia on Crait before, which would mean go to Crait first, then on Supremacy and then back to Crait again (which IMO makes no sense). So I bet that the meeting happens after the Resistance is defeated by the FO, unless she indeed meets Leia right after the landing on Crait just before the FO attack begins. So the question is: what happened to Kylo? Where the hell is Luke now? No way they don't make the twins reunite at some point IMO.

What I draw as conclusion from this possible timeline is once again that Rey ain't the one whose fate is the most unpredictable or worrying. If it happens that this timeline is right, it's pretty safe to assume that she won't end up the movie as Snoke's puppet.

The thing about the torture scene, Rey without a head wound, is that it might be Snoke using telepathy. I don't usually like "dream sequence" explanations, but it might be the case here.

The overhead shot: perhaps Rey and Kylo destroy Snoke, Kylo takes over the First Order and Rey goes back to the Resistance. That would serve to explain several of the knots we have, IMO.

Oh, and good luck on this task. You'll need it.

do we know for sure Kylo will be on Arch-to? Maybe Adam was there filming some "force-deam-sequence" and he will meet Rey (in real life) the first time during the fight on Crait?

In the continuity of the previous post, I found an interesting theory about the timeline, regarding the circumstances of Rey's escape from Supremacy. That complete my own interrogations and suppositions how it could g. Here is what I initially wrote:

3) Kylo and Rey fight Snoke/Pretorian guards as Finn fights Phasma/Stormtroopers.

The question is : what is happening to Kylo after this? It's difficult to imagine that Rey would leave alone so let's consider that they actually  try to find their way to escape the ship together a la Anakin and Obi-Wan as the ship is exploding. I would  love to see Kylo and Rey in this situation


4) Kylo and Rey find Finn and Rose and try to escape. However, there must be something that make it impossible for Kylo to leave with them on the MF. Maybe Snoke is after them and Kylo urge Rey to leave with the others for some reason. It would be a nice callback to this TFA scene as Rey leaves SKB with Chewie and Finn but without Kylo:


And here is that interesting post:
https://ceallaigheirinn.tumblr.com/post/166392001848/what-if-the-hand-is-a-goodbye-no-hear-me-out
To sum up, it suggest that Kylo would lead Rey, Finn and Rose to the Silencer (so let's assume that actually Rey didn't leave Ahch-To aboard the MF but aboard the Silencer with Kylo) but there isn't enough place for all of them and everything is exploding around them. So Kylo decides to stay onboard and must part with Rey. Therefore, the post suggest that Kylo offering with hand to Rey with this strong emotional look...would take place in the context of a goodbye scene!

I personally find that theory interesting:
1) After all, the background could suit very well with the destruction of the ship  




2) The scene could be a nice callback to these separation scenes
- Han and Leia's separation == > red/orange color + smoke around them

- Jack and Rose ==> spark in the background + not enough place on the lifeboat to go with the girl  

- Scarlet and Rhett ==> " I'm not asking you to forgive me. I'll never understand or forgive myself. And if a bullet gets me, so help me, I'll laugh at myself for being an idiot. There's one thing I do know... and that is that I love you, Scarlett. In spite of you and me and the whole silly world going to pieces around us, I love you. Because we're alike"


Plus let's not forget that according to the TFA novelization, someone is supposed to say this line to Rey at some point : "I'll come back, sweetheart, I promise!"

Night Huntress wrote:do we know for sure Kylo will be on Arch-to? Maybe Adam was there filming some "force-deam-sequence" and he will meet Rey (in real life) the first time during the fight on Crait?

@Night Huntress

That's a possibility that I find more and more plausible TBH, especially if according to the theory of Kylo offering his hand to Rey aboard Supremacy apears pertinent. The more I think about it, the more I ask myself how Kylo fits in the Ahch-To arc of the story. However, it is hard to imagine that he wouldn't show up there since it was emphasized that he saw the island and that his initial goal was to find Luke there. It was the very first thing that led him to that Jakku village to get the map. Even if he doesn't meet Rey, I think that they definitely will meet on Supremacy and therefore before the battle on Crait.

reylo1992 wrote:In the continuity of the previous post, I found an interesting theory about the timeline, regarding the circumstances of Rey's escape from Supremacy. That complete my own interrogations and suppositions how it could g. Here is what I initially wrote:

3) Kylo and Rey fight Snoke/Pretorian guards as Finn fights Phasma/Stormtroopers.

The question is : what is happening to Kylo after this? It's difficult to imagine that Rey would leave alone so let's consider that they actually  try to find their way to escape the ship together a la Anakin and Obi-Wan as the ship is exploding. I would  love to see Kylo and Rey in this situation


4) Kylo and Rey find Finn and Rose and try to escape. However, there must be something that make it impossible for Kylo to leave with them on the MF. Maybe Snoke is after them and Kylo urge Rey to leave with the others for some reason. It would be a nice callback to this TFA scene as Rey leaves SKB with Chewie and Finn but without Kylo:


And here is that interesting post:
https://ceallaigheirinn.tumblr.com/post/166392001848/what-if-the-hand-is-a-goodbye-no-hear-me-out
To sum up, it suggest that Kylo would lead Rey, Finn and Rose to the Silencer (so let's assume that actually Rey didn't leave Ahch-To aboard the MF but aboard the Silencer with Kylo) but there isn't enough place for all of them and everything is exploding around them. So Kylo decides to stay onboard and must part with Rey. Therefore, the post suggest that Kylo offering with hand to Rey with this strong emotional look...would take place in the context of a goodbye scene!

I personally find that theory interesting:
1) After all, the background could suit very well with the destruction of the ship  




2) The scene could be a nice callback to these separation scenes
- Han and Leia's separation == > red/orange color + smoke around them

- Jack and Rose ==> spark in the background + not enough place on the lifeboat to go with the girl  

- Scarlet and Rhett ==> " I'm not asking you to forgive me. I'll never understand or forgive myself. And if a bullet gets me, so help me, I'll laugh at myself for being an idiot. There's one thing I do know... and that is that I love you, Scarlett. In spite of you and me and the whole silly world going to pieces around us, I love you. Because we're alike"


Plus let's not forget that according to the TFA novelization, someone is supposed to say this line to Rey at some point : "I'll come back, sweetheart, I promise!"

@reylo1992

Kylo's hand gesture suggest Come with me rather than Goodbye, Rey. But Clearly Kylo and Rey will be separated at the end of the movie either Supremacy or Crait.

Night Huntress wrote:do we know for sure Kylo will be on Arch-to? Maybe Adam was there filming some "force-deam-sequence" and he will meet Rey (in real life) the first time during the fight on Crait?

@Night Huntress

He must be, they'll fight. Hard to put it it in a flashback when it never happend like this or vision because Ach-To is a specific location.

DarthRen wrote:

reylo1992 wrote:In the continuity of the previous post, I found an interesting theory about the timeline, regarding the circumstances of Rey's escape from Supremacy. That complete my own interrogations and suppositions how it could g. Here is what I initially wrote:

3) Kylo and Rey fight Snoke/Pretorian guards as Finn fights Phasma/Stormtroopers.

The question is : what is happening to Kylo after this? It's difficult to imagine that Rey would leave alone so let's consider that they actually  try to find their way to escape the ship together a la Anakin and Obi-Wan as the ship is exploding. I would  love to see Kylo and Rey in this situation


4) Kylo and Rey find Finn and Rose and try to escape. However, there must be something that make it impossible for Kylo to leave with them on the MF. Maybe Snoke is after them and Kylo urge Rey to leave with the others for some reason. It would be a nice callback to this TFA scene as Rey leaves SKB with Chewie and Finn but without Kylo:


And here is that interesting post:
https://ceallaigheirinn.tumblr.com/post/166392001848/what-if-the-hand-is-a-goodbye-no-hear-me-out
To sum up, it suggest that Kylo would lead Rey, Finn and Rose to the Silencer (so let's assume that actually Rey didn't leave Ahch-To aboard the MF but aboard the Silencer with Kylo) but there isn't enough place for all of them and everything is exploding around them. So Kylo decides to stay onboard and must part with Rey. Therefore, the post suggest that Kylo offering with hand to Rey with this strong emotional look...would take place in the context of a goodbye scene!

I personally find that theory interesting:
1) After all, the background could suit very well with the destruction of the ship  




2) The scene could be a nice callback to these separation scenes
- Han and Leia's separation == > red/orange color + smoke around them

- Jack and Rose ==> spark in the background + not enough place on the lifeboat to go with the girl  

- Scarlet and Rhett ==> " I'm not asking you to forgive me. I'll never understand or forgive myself. And if a bullet gets me, so help me, I'll laugh at myself for being an idiot. There's one thing I do know... and that is that I love you, Scarlett. In spite of you and me and the whole silly world going to pieces around us, I love you. Because we're alike"


Plus let's not forget that according to the TFA novelization, someone is supposed to say this line to Rey at some point : "I'll come back, sweetheart, I promise!"

@reylo1992

Kylo's hand gesture suggest Come with me rather than Goodbye, Rey. But Clearly Kylo and Rey will be separated at the end of the movie either Supremacy or Crait.

@DarthRen

That's right. It looks more like "come withme".

But like the post suggests, he could reach out to her after saving her from the torture and the flames around are due to the explosion. What I find interesting is that the post suggest that the hand touch could happen in another place than Ahch-To and I find the idea that it would happen on Supremacy pertinent.

It would be really strange to have Kylo offering his hand to Rey on Ahch-To and bringing her to Snoke after they concluded an arrangement. It makes more sense to me that she would accept his hand after he saves her from Sboke and he is trembling because of what happened (her torture, his decision, the fear to be rejected).

And I find the post interesting not that much for the hand but more for the circumstances in which they would part because I can't imagine that Kylo wouldn't play any role in Rey, Finn and Rose's escape if he chooses Rey over Snoke. But I think you're right to point out that the hand touch and the goodbye wouldn't be necessarily related although these two moments couls both happen on Supremacy.

reylo1992 wrote:

Night Huntress wrote:do we know for sure Kylo will be on Arch-to? Maybe Adam was there filming some "force-deam-sequence" and he will meet Rey (in real life) the first time during the fight on Crait?

@Night Huntress

That's a possibility that I find more and more plausible TBH, especially if according to the theory of Kylo offering his hand to Rey aboard Supremacy apears pertinent. The more I think about it, the more I ask myself how Kylo fits in the Ahch-To arc of the story. However, it is hard to imagine that he wouldn't show up there since it was emphasized that he saw the island and that his initial goal was to find Luke there. It was the very first thing that led him to that Jakku village to get the map. Even if he doesn't meet Rey, I think that they definitely will meet on Supremacy and therefore before the battle on Crait.

@reylo1992

IMO, the fact that we can't squeeze Kylo's Ahch-To visit into an existing timeline just means we know next to nothing about the real timeline. But that's just me.

There's of course the map thing, Kylo's obsession with finding Luke to begin with; then there's the fact that there would have been no need to fly AD to Ireland and keep him there for a rather long time for nothing but a Forceback, when it seems like no main actors were in Dubrovnik either though their characters are there; and then there's Rey's TFA Forceback with (what I still believe is) Ahch-To landscape. The same heavy rain, the same terrain, even something that looks like the tree... I mean, we're getting exactly the same rain in TLJ, as confirmed by the trailer, and yet the Forceback would be some random flashback with no significance to the unfolding story?

To me, it would seem a bit odd storytelling-wise if he did not end up on Ahch-To (which is not to say it's impossible, I would just personally find it odd after TFA and its foreshadowing). But I guess we'll see.

I just think that our failure to make sense of stuff like this means that what we think is the basic outline of the story, might not actually be the basic outline of the story.

Darth Dingbat wrote:

reylo1992 wrote:

Night Huntress wrote:do we know for sure Kylo will be on Arch-to? Maybe Adam was there filming some "force-deam-sequence" and he will meet Rey (in real life) the first time during the fight on Crait?

@Night Huntress

That's a possibility that I find more and more plausible TBH, especially if according to the theory of Kylo offering his hand to Rey aboard Supremacy apears pertinent. The more I think about it, the more I ask myself how Kylo fits in the Ahch-To arc of the story. However, it is hard to imagine that he wouldn't show up there since it was emphasized that he saw the island and that his initial goal was to find Luke there. It was the very first thing that led him to that Jakku village to get the map. Even if he doesn't meet Rey, I think that they definitely will meet on Supremacy and therefore before the battle on Crait.

@reylo1992

IMO, the fact that we can't squeeze Kylo's Ahch-To visit into an existing timeline just means we know next to nothing about the real timeline. But that's just me.

There's of course the map thing, Kylo's obsession with finding Luke to begin with; then there's the fact that there would have been no need to fly AD to Ireland and keep him there for a rather long time for nothing but a Forceback, when it seems like no main actors were in Dubrovnik either though their characters are there; and then there's Rey's TFA Forceback with (what I still believe is) Ahch-To landscape. The same heavy rain, the same terrain, even something that looks like the tree... I mean, we're getting exactly the same rain in TLJ, as confirmed by the trailer, and yet the Forceback would be some random flashback with no significance to the unfolding story?

To me, it would seem a bit odd storytelling-wise if he did not end up on Ahch-To (which is not to say it's impossible, I would just personally find it odd after TFA and its foreshadowing). But I guess we'll see.

I just think that our failure to make sense of stuff like this means that what we think is the basic outline of the story, might not actually be the basic outline of the story.

@Darth Dingbat

The only thing that we know for sure is that...

- Finn and Rose will be 1) on mission in Canto Bright, 2) on infiltration on Supremacy and 3) back on Resistance base on Crait. So their storyline is easy to track although we don't know the nature of their mission.

- Rey will be 1) on Ahch-To, 2) on Supremacy and 3) on Crait. I doubt that it will work the other way around with her going to Crait first, then on Supremacy and then back to Crait. I doubt that she will go somewhere else until the end of the battle of Crait so she is actually quite easy to track . It is pretty clear that the transition from Supremacy to Crait for her will happen by escaping the ship during the explosion because I see no point of having Rey leaving Supremacy on her own while Finn and Rose also find a way to escape at the same moment. I guess that the screenwriters made things in a way that key character meet again after long separation at key moments. So if the torture scene on Supremacy is real, Rey will most probably meet Finn againaboard Supremacy.. So the screenwriter probably set the timeline in such way that Rey's arc and Finn & Rose's arc meet at this key moment.

So actually, the biggest plot hole regarding the timeline is the transition from Ahch-To to Supremacy : when would she leave Ahch-To? why will she leave Ahch-To? whom with will she leave? Will it be aboard the MF or another ship? Where does she intend to go? How will she end up on Supremacy?  How does Kylo fit in all of this?

The problem is that Kylo's arc is more difficult to track because it seems that he will move a lot from one place to another. And we don't know his motivations contrary to Rey who wants to be trained and FinnRose who is sent on mission.

panki wrote:

DarthRen wrote:

reylo1992 wrote:An interesting video analysing the timeline, focusing on Rey's bruise


Totally agree with the guy. Unless it appears that the torture shot is actually a vision,  Rey shall escape Snoke and then fight on Crait for the final stage of the battle. So the explosion on Supremacy with Finn vs. Phasma would take place before everybody (Rey, Finn, Rose?) go on Crait. Since Rey seems to be there with Finn (and Rose according to promo pictures), she will maybe escape with them. Really I am looking forward what is exactly going in the laps of time between the torture/fight on Supremacy and the landing on Crait.

@reylo1992

You can see bruise on her head on MF with Chewie what Rian posted. Rey in BTS footage looked on her knees before Leia, who looks worried. Must be something about Kylo or Luke. Something has happened to them. Luke's role beyond Ach-To is unclear but Kylo will be on Supremacy, so something must've happend to him.

If Kylo helps Rey BTS footage, why is he on Crait with FO? There has to be some twist and alternate motive.

@DarthRen

I think Kylo will see Rey as the one hope to save his mother so he will help her escape with Finn to warn Leia- Rey may even ask him to join them as they leave but he will say he needs to stay back as he can do more for them being with the FO...maybe even asking Finn or Rey to wound him to make their escape convincing. (Rey will be emotionally wounded by his sacrifice)

Snoke might demand he goes out and wipe out the resistance.... it will be a sad moment because he will be stuck on the side of the first order having to put up a brave face and pretending to fight on Crait when he has technically already changed sides (the walk with the flametrooper takes on a whole new meaning where he is actually betraying the FO and saving the resistance unlike Anakin who took the same march to wipe out the jedi).....think agent Kallus in Rebels... Kylo will become like Fulcrum.

@panki

Snoke still probably needs him even with his bertryal, so killing Kylo accomplishes nothing. Maybe he'll push hom to prove his loyalty once more by wiping out the Resistance. That might explain his presence at the battle. But still there has to be something reallysurprisng that is on Crait and some big twist.

reylo1992 wrote:

DarthRen wrote:

reylo1992 wrote:In the continuity of the previous post, I found an interesting theory about the timeline, regarding the circumstances of Rey's escape from Supremacy. That complete my own interrogations and suppositions how it could g. Here is what I initially wrote:

3) Kylo and Rey fight Snoke/Pretorian guards as Finn fights Phasma/Stormtroopers.

The question is : what is happening to Kylo after this? It's difficult to imagine that Rey would leave alone so let's consider that they actually  try to find their way to escape the ship together a la Anakin and Obi-Wan as the ship is exploding. I would  love to see Kylo and Rey in this situation


4) Kylo and Rey find Finn and Rose and try to escape. However, there must be something that make it impossible for Kylo to leave with them on the MF. Maybe Snoke is after them and Kylo urge Rey to leave with the others for some reason. It would be a nice callback to this TFA scene as Rey leaves SKB with Chewie and Finn but without Kylo:


And here is that interesting post:
https://ceallaigheirinn.tumblr.com/post/166392001848/what-if-the-hand-is-a-goodbye-no-hear-me-out
To sum up, it suggest that Kylo would lead Rey, Finn and Rose to the Silencer (so let's assume that actually Rey didn't leave Ahch-To aboard the MF but aboard the Silencer with Kylo) but there isn't enough place for all of them and everything is exploding around them. So Kylo decides to stay onboard and must part with Rey. Therefore, the post suggest that Kylo offering with hand to Rey with this strong emotional look...would take place in the context of a goodbye scene!

I personally find that theory interesting:
1) After all, the background could suit very well with the destruction of the ship  




2) The scene could be a nice callback to these separation scenes
- Han and Leia's separation == > red/orange color + smoke around them

- Jack and Rose ==> spark in the background + not enough place on the lifeboat to go with the girl  

- Scarlet and Rhett ==> " I'm not asking you to forgive me. I'll never understand or forgive myself. And if a bullet gets me, so help me, I'll laugh at myself for being an idiot. There's one thing I do know... and that is that I love you, Scarlett. In spite of you and me and the whole silly world going to pieces around us, I love you. Because we're alike"


Plus let's not forget that according to the TFA novelization, someone is supposed to say this line to Rey at some point : "I'll come back, sweetheart, I promise!"

@reylo1992

Kylo's hand gesture suggest Come with me rather than Goodbye, Rey. But Clearly Kylo and Rey will be separated at the end of the movie either Supremacy or Crait.

@DarthRen

That's right. It looks more like "come withme".

But like the post suggests, he could reach out to her after saving her from the torture and the flames around are due to the explosion. What I find interesting is that the post suggest that the hand touch could happen in another place than Ahch-To and I find the idea that it would happen on Supremacy pertinent.

It would be really strange to have Kylo offering his hand to Rey on Ahch-To and bringing her to Snoke after they concluded an arrangement. It makes more sense to me that she would accept his hand after he saves her from Sboke and he is trembling because of what happened (her torture, his decision, the fear to be rejected).

And I find the post interesting not that much for the hand but more for the circumstances in which they would part because I can't imagine that Kylo wouldn't play any role in Rey, Finn and Rose's escape if he chooses Rey over Snoke. But I think you're right to point out that the hand touch and the goodbye wouldn't be necessarily related although these two moments couls both happen on Supremacy.

@reylo1992

I thought about it too. Only logical places are Ach-To, Supremacy and Crait.

Ach-To would be weird since Kylo might be angry given the SKB fight, and all of sudden that change, I wrote a post that it might not be on Ach-To in The Last Jedi Trailer thread. Two fires at the same place? Unlikely. This could fit into it and explaining of Kylo taking he hand to help her and goodbye could be connected. We just saw piece of it. Also, agree that Kylo would likely help them and as to our previous debate about Snoke using him, it could be that Kylo has to prove his loyalty again to Snoke after his bertrayal for the girl. Snoke has accused him of having a sentiment over Rey. And also Snoke still needs Kylo for whatever purpose.

Also, Kylo finally being accepted by Rey would be the climatic moment for their arcs, even tho separated.

@darth dingbat:
I tend to agree - this trailer has thrown all I thought I knew about the timeline of the movie into question. But what it has done is make me look again at the Topp's Trading Cards. I know they've said it doesn't mean anything, but...history says something different in that the trading card lists have been telling with movies past. What do y'all think?