Discussions: Tweets/Instagram (NO SPOILERS)

Pablo was asked about grey heroes again:



This time it sounds more like a confirmation because he's dodging again.

Why does he hate complex villains or gray heroes so much?

Forsythia wrote:Pablo was asked about grey heroes again:



This time it sounds more like a confirmation because he's dodging again.

Why does he hate complex villains or gray heroes so much?

@Forsythia

I admit I'm at a loss to understand what Pablo means here. I'm going to believe until the movie he doesn't understand what the fandom means by "grey", but hey. It's not like grey characters would be a first in SW - Han Solo, anyone?

I think the problem with "grey" is that it's a very vague term and people can mean different things by it. I don't think the person asking the question meant grey like Han. It sounded more like one of those anti Kylo people who are worried that Rey and Kylo could become allies and that Rey might make mistakes because they want her to be perfect.

Forsythia wrote:I think the problem with "grey" is that it's a very vague term and people can mean different things by it. I don't think the person asking the question meant grey like Han. It sounded more like one of those anti Kylo people who are worried that Rey and Kylo could become allies and that Rey might make mistakes because they want her to be perfect.

@Forsythia

AMEN

Maria Antonietta wrote:

Forsythia wrote:I think the problem with "grey" is that it's a very vague term and people can mean different things by it. I don't think the person asking the question meant grey like Han. It sounded more like one of those anti Kylo people who are worried that Rey and Kylo could become allies and that Rey might make mistakes because they want her to be perfect.

@Forsythia

AMEN

@Maria Antonietta

Aha, the mud becomes clearer, finally. This confirms what I’ve suspected for awhile. Pablo’s comments on Kylo, ambiguity and greyness in this trilogy are strictly his own opinion. I mean, his comments on how everything *should* be black and white in Star Wars contradict nearly everything that JJ, Rian, Adam Driver and countless others have put out there. When he began questioning Adam Driver on his understanding of the character HE played, I began to think as much, but this puts that ball in the hole. No wonder people were confused!

IoJovi wrote:

Maria Antonietta wrote:

Forsythia wrote:I think the problem with "grey" is that it's a very vague term and people can mean different things by it. I don't think the person asking the question meant grey like Han. It sounded more like one of those anti Kylo people who are worried that Rey and Kylo could become allies and that Rey might make mistakes because they want her to be perfect.

@Forsythia

AMEN

@Maria Antonietta

Aha, the mud becomes clearer, finally.  This confirms what I’ve suspected for awhile.  Pablo’s comments on Kylo, ambiguity and greyness in this trilogy are strictly his own opinion.  I mean, his comments on how everything *should* be black and white in Star Wars contradict nearly everything that JJ, Rian, Adam Driver and countless others have put out there.  When he began questioning Adam Driver on his understanding of the character HE played, I began to think as much, but this puts that ball in the hole.  No wonder people were confused!

@IoJovi

That's rather a good thing that we have the confirmation that Pablo expresses his personal opinion that doesn't reflect what the SW crew is up with the ST

But I think that it's also good that Pablo expresses that he feels unconfortable with grey characters because it probably mirrors how some part of the fandom is unconfortable with this too. After all, we can't all have the same appreciation of the differences between good and evil. To some extent, I understand that some people don't feel confortable with the idea that a Dark-sider with a little light within could be equally good as a Light-sider with a little dark within.

Cowgirlsamurai wrote:

IoJovi wrote:

Maria Antonietta wrote:

Forsythia wrote:I think the problem with "grey" is that it's a very vague term and people can mean different things by it. I don't think the person asking the question meant grey like Han. It sounded more like one of those anti Kylo people who are worried that Rey and Kylo could become allies and that Rey might make mistakes because they want her to be perfect.

@Forsythia

AMEN

@Maria Antonietta

Aha, the mud becomes clearer, finally.  This confirms what I’ve suspected for awhile.  Pablo’s comments on Kylo, ambiguity and greyness in this trilogy are strictly his own opinion.  I mean, his comments on how everything *should* be black and white in Star Wars contradict nearly everything that JJ, Rian, Adam Driver and countless others have put out there.  When he began questioning Adam Driver on his understanding of the character HE played, I began to think as much, but this puts that ball in the hole.  No wonder people were confused!

@IoJovi

@Cowgirlsamurai

Thanks for the interview, I hadn't seen that one before. Daisy's reaction when the interviewer says "The Last Jedi" is singular was very interesting, it looked like she wanted to contradict him. So the title is probably meant to be ambiguous and the plural translations in other countries aren't an accident.

I'm wondering what Pablo thinks of TLJ if he is so against grey.

Maybe it's just me but this whole anti-grey movement sounds pretty self-righteous. Like are these fanboys who want clearly good and clearly bad guys a breed of perfect humans who can make such judgement calls? Sorry if I don't make sense, don't really know how to explain any of this without sounding like a b**** myself XD

@rey09

Maybe they need other people to tell them what's right and wrong, so grey characters confuse them because they require the audience to think for themselves

reylo1992 wrote:That's rather a good thing that we have the confirmation that Pablo expresses his personal opinion that doesn't reflect what the SW crew is up with the ST

But I think that it's also good that Pablo expresses that he feels unconfortable with grey characters because it probably mirrors how some part of the fandom is unconfortable with this too. After all, we can't all have the same appreciation of the differences between good and evil. To some extent, I understand that some people don't feel confortable with the idea that a Dark-sider with a little light within could be equally good as a Light-sider with a little dark within.

@reylo1992 Thing is all humans have this within us, in different ratios/amounts of course. I'm a *generally* nice person lol but I have my own nasty side (which my parents will attest to). It's all a big metaphor for how every single one of us humans go on with the world. So for some people to feel uncomfortable with that says a lot about their own insecurities idkkk We all have potentials to be very good and very bad and I think it's crucial for people to grasp any day, with any change of circumstance, we can become totally different people.

reylo1992 wrote:That's rather a good thing that we have the confirmation that Pablo expresses his personal opinion that doesn't reflect what the SW crew is up with the ST

But I think that it's also good that Pablo expresses that he feels unconfortable with grey characters because it probably mirrors how some part of the fandom is unconfortable with this too. After all, we can't all have the same appreciation of the differences between good and evil. To some extent, I understand that some people don't feel confortable with the idea that a Dark-sider with a little light within could be equally good as a Light-sider with a little dark within.

@reylo1992

I actually disagree with this.  Pablo is an employee of Lucasfilm and as such, even as a SW fan himself, he’s supposed to represent the company and the brand.  By doing so, he’s creating this mass confusion as most people think 100% of the time he’s talking solely with what’s actually coming out of this franchise.  If the ST is now hitting some grey areas, how contradictory is it for a LF employee to come out and say, “No, things should be in black and white?”

If I were his employer and he was airing his disagreements with me in a public domain about my company, I wouldn’t be happy with him.

For the record, I will also say I enjoy Pablo and his snark 90% of the time, but from a business standpoint he sometimes crossed a line he shouldn’t.

strange- I mean really pure light and dark characters doesn't exist in the real world- for me that's why I don't like to see that on screen. It's always seems so fake to me.

IoJovi wrote:

For the record, I will also say I enjoy Pablo and his snark 90% of the time, but from a business standpoint he sometimes crossed a line he shouldn’t.

@IoJovi

I totally agree. I'm a bit confused he didn't get in trouble for some of his postings/tweets (whatever they are called) - not that I want him to... on the other hand... Maybe LF let him keep the fans busy and confused with his personal point of view

I think that Pablo's issue isn't with gray characters like Han, but with there being a gray area between the light and dark sides of the Force... Like you can't be able to switch between them whenever you want. I think the author of this article has it right:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2017/10/14/a-last-jedi-theory-that-would-change-the-core-of-the-entire-star-wars-universe/#4a0e7c6c3797

The Jedi’s rejection of love has always been their most unnerving tenet. And while they can say someone like Anakin was driven to the Dark Side by it, how might the galaxy been changed if Anakin was simply allowed to be properly trained, allowed to seek justice for his murdered mother (was killing those Tusken Raiders really so bad?) and allowed to have a normal relationship with Padme out in the open? The butterfly effect of those alterations would be expansive.

This is where I can see The Last Jedi heading, to Luke’s realization that the old Jedi ways have no place in the world, and instead by combining them with some of the freedoms the Sith enjoy, that true balance can be brought to the Force that way. The alternative, lonely warrior monks trying to stomp out every single evil villain from the galaxy, has proven beyond futile at this point.

Like the jedi as we know them will end, and a new order, one where they will be allowed to form attachments, etc, will begin. I think they'll still be light siders, but will lose some of the "holy monk" aspects of the order. This might be how we get Ben Solo back

IoJovi wrote:I actually disagree with this.  Pablo is an employee of Lucasfilm and as such, even as a SW fan himself, he’s supposed to represent the company and the brand.  By doing so, he’s creating this mass confusion as most people think 100% of the time he’s talking solely with what’s actually coming out of this franchise.  If the ST is now hitting some grey areas, how contradictory is it for a LF employee to come out and say, “No, things should be in black and white?”

If I weee his employer and he was airing his disagreements with me in a public domain about my company, I wouldn’t be happy with him.

For the record, I will also say I enjoy Pablo and his snark 90% of the time, but from a business standpoint he sometimes crossed a line he shouldn’t.

Especially when he doesn't have to say anything. He didn't need to say that he is against grey characters or that he dislikes Kylo. I was a bit surprised about him expressing a negative opinion again since he recently backpedaled concerning his negative opinion of Kylo/Adam.

Night Huntress wrote:

IoJovi wrote:

For the record, I will also say I enjoy Pablo and his snark 90% of the time, but from a business standpoint he sometimes crossed a line he shouldn’t.

@IoJovi

I totally agree. I'm a bit confused he didn't get in trouble for some of his postings/tweets (whatever they are called) - not that I want him to... on the other hand... Maybe LF let him keep the fans busy and confused with his personal point of view

@Night Huntress

I was also surprised that Pablo has broadcasted his opinion on Twitter several times that he doesn't like TFA much. In fact, he has gone on record saying that he ranks even TPM over TFA. In fact, he only liked AOTC less, if I remember correctly.

No company can tell their employees what to think, but besides all the other stuff he's said (contradicting JJ and Adam, etc), I admit I raised my eyebrows at that. How many companies would be fine with their employers publically stating they don't really like the company's main product? "I may work in an executive position at Whippersnapper Waffles, but in my honest opinion, I think the waffles are kind of meh"? Nobody's forcing you to eat the waffles, but no need to make your opinion clear on social media...

CienaRee wrote:
IMO,I guess this fan and Pablo have conveniently ignored the new canon material which makes the characters much more ambiguous hell the whole PT was GL making Anakin and his fall to the DS a more complicated/nuanced character/story(whether he succeeded at that is another thing).
Sorry Pablo and other fanboys it's not the 80s anymore we live in an age were people want more ambiguity instead of the simple black and white view,just because SW is a fairy tale doesn't mean it's not capable of doing that besides children tend to be much more perceptive and accepting of certain characters/plot lines that older people don't.

@CienaRee


I agree with all this, but wanted to comment on the difference between the 1980s and now.  (I've read in a few posts that Pablo said this about the era of the OT, but didn't see the original tweet.)  I'm curious if other long time film industry workers would agree with him. I've had the impression that mainstream films in the 70s and 80s were arguably way more complex and character-driven than the superhero action dominated scene of the past several years.  And, I've wondered if the modern era of films informs some of the resistance to ambiguity or conflicted villains that we currently see in the fandom.

On the other hand, TV is definitely an entirely different animal nowadays, and perhaps it has a greater influence on our viewing interests than movies?

I get tired of Pablo's constant mood swings and his opinions. I don't even understand why people even bother anymore to keep asking him questions he obviously will not answer directly! Right now it seems that to avoid saying spoilery stuff, Pabs decides to answer with 'personal' opinions, which also isn't really helpful.

As long as Pablo doesn't debunk Reylo, then he's alright. Other than that, he really isn't worth the thinking space.

@rey09
@IoJovi

Well, I personally prefer that grey area the SW crew is up with the ST. But I can understand that some people ain't confortable with this. Aside from Anakin - and maybe Han - no other character in the franchise was grey. And this is where the ST has so much potential IMO because it brings something new.

Now, I can understand that it raises question among people to go to a grey. I find it personally brillant to bring nuance, conflict and ambiguity within characters. But I also understand why some people don't feel that comfortable with this.

So I don't know what bring people to feel uncomfortable but I wouldn't throw all these people into the same group. Sure, there is some part of the fandom who wants black and white character because dark villain bring them more fun. But I suppose that there is also some part of the fandom that questions the implication of a grey philosophy and question the idea of breaking the walls between good and evil. In real life, would you like to have some sympathy toward people like Hitler, Himmler, etc...who committed atrocities and probably still had a little light within? Would you consider that they were black or grey persons, and then were they dark grey or light grey?

Honestly, I can understand that some people ain't comfortable for now with the idea of Kylo's redemption and Reylo. The fact that he is a conflicted emo villain doesn't make him less a murderer. So I can understand that people who see him like a murderer don't feel much sympathy for him right now and are skeptical that someone like him wouldn't pay for his crimes and beyond living happily married with Rey who ain't a murderer for now. Let's keep in mind that a lot of detail about his relationship with Snoke weren't included in the movie so that the GA is unaware of these details. So I don't blame them for thinking that Kylo is a Vader fanboy who tries hard to be like his Grandfather on his own will. I think that the most of the people actually could perfectly related to Kylo if they are given a good reason to relate to him. On tumblr, a person made a post asking why Rey shall end with Kylo, a murderer who hurt her and her friends. This was non-aggressive so I tried my best to give a proper answer and that person reacted quite well to the clues I gave him. Basically, it was someone who was unaware about these details regarding Snoke and Kylo's relationship. And once he knew about that, he told me that had he known that from the movie, he would have seen Kylo differently. So I am confident that a lot of people will react well to the grey area.

What I don't like is the small part of the fanboy who refuse to see the potentiality behind grey area and doesn't trust LF about the direction they intend to bring the GA. What I don't like is the small part of the fandom who "hate" Kylo - and thus "hate" Reylo - as if hate was the proper answer to their frustration toward the character: either because he doesn't embody their ideal Vader 2 and/or because he killed a beloved character and/or because he is an unsteady emo child. What I don't like are the reactions of this small part of the fandom who doesn't want to hear about any character development and/or any clue that would contradict what they want: make him pay/die for his crimes. To this people, I hope that Rian will give them a lesson, why not by giving them what they want in the most unexpected way.

he gave different answers when asked about Mortis. So that's a type of balance that he is into but not this grey stuff. Ask him about Yin and Yang, which isn't grey, and see what he says. It's a matter of definition. If you ask him about grey crap, he won't correct you and say "I think you actually mean ________ and in that case yes." he thrives of bad questions so to speak.

reylo1992 wrote:@rey09
@IoJovi

Well, I personally prefer that grey area the SW crew is up with the ST. But I can understand that some people ain't confortable with this. Aside from Anakin - and maybe Han - no other character in the franchise was grey. And this is where the ST has so much potential IMO because it brings something new.

Now, I can understand that it raises question among people to go to a grey. I find it personally brillant to bring nuance, conflict and ambiguity within characters. But I also understand why some people don't feel that comfortable with this.

So I don't know what bring people to feel uncomfortable but I wouldn't throw all these people into the same group. Sure, there is some part of the fandom who wants black and white character because dark villain bring them more fun. But I suppose that there is also some part of the fandom that questions the implication of a grey philosophy and question the idea of breaking the walls between good and evil. In real life, would you like to have some sympathy toward people like Hitler, Himmler, etc...who committed atrocities and probably still had a little light within? Would you consider that they were black or grey persons, and then were they dark grey or light grey?

Honestly, I can understand that some people ain't comfortable for now with the idea of Kylo's redemption and Reylo. The fact that he is a conflicted emo villain doesn't make him less a murderer. So I can understand that people who see him like a murderer don't feel much sympathy for him right now and are skeptical that someone like him wouldn't pay for his crimes and beyond living happily married with Rey who ain't a murderer for now. Let's keep in mind that a lot of detail about his relationship with Snoke weren't included in the movie so that the GA is unaware of these details. So I don't blame them for thinking that Kylo is a Vader fanboy who tries hard to be like his Grandfather on his own will. I think that the most of the people actually could perfectly related to Kylo if they are given a good reason to relate to him. On tumblr, a person made a post asking why Rey shall end with Kylo, a murderer who hurt her and her friends. This was non-aggressive so I tried my best to give a proper answer and that person reacted quite well to the clues I gave him. Basically, it was someone who was unaware about these details regarding Snoke and Kylo's relationship. And once he knew about that, he told me that had he known that from the movie, he would have seen Kylo differently. So I am confident that a lot of people will react well to the grey area.

What I don't like is the small part of the fanboy who refuse to see the potentiality behind grey area and doesn't trust LF about the direction they intend to bring the GA. What I don't like is the small part of the fandom who "hate" Kylo - and thus "hate" Reylo - as if hate was the proper answer to their frustration toward the character: either because he doesn't embody their ideal Vader 2 and/or because he killed a beloved character and/or because he is an unsteady emo child. What I don't like are the reactions of this small part of the fandom who doesn't want to hear about any character development and/or any clue that would contradict what they want: make him pay/die for his crimes. To this people, I hope that Rian will give them a lesson, why not by giving them what they want in the most unexpected way.

@reylo1992

My comments weren’t really so much about nuance vs black and white and why we should love it/hate it. My comments were about letting your employees speak out on social media that go directly against your comapny’s vision, or make insulting remarks against other employees at your same company (JJ Abrams, for example). I’m not normally one who inhibits free speech, but if I were do at my own company what Pablo is very visibly doing with his Twitter account, I would have been fired awhile ago.

IoJovi wrote:

reylo1992 wrote:@rey09
@IoJovi

Well, I personally prefer that grey area the SW crew is up with the ST. But I can understand that some people ain't confortable with this. Aside from Anakin - and maybe Han - no other character in the franchise was grey. And this is where the ST has so much potential IMO because it brings something new.

Now, I can understand that it raises question among people to go to a grey. I find it personally brillant to bring nuance, conflict and ambiguity within characters. But I also understand why some people don't feel that comfortable with this.

So I don't know what bring people to feel uncomfortable but I wouldn't throw all these people into the same group. Sure, there is some part of the fandom who wants black and white character because dark villain bring them more fun. But I suppose that there is also some part of the fandom that questions the implication of a grey philosophy and question the idea of breaking the walls between good and evil. In real life, would you like to have some sympathy toward people like Hitler, Himmler, etc...who committed atrocities and probably still had a little light within? Would you consider that they were black or grey persons, and then were they dark grey or light grey?

Honestly, I can understand that some people ain't comfortable for now with the idea of Kylo's redemption and Reylo. The fact that he is a conflicted emo villain doesn't make him less a murderer. So I can understand that people who see him like a murderer don't feel much sympathy for him right now and are skeptical that someone like him wouldn't pay for his crimes and beyond living happily married with Rey who ain't a murderer for now. Let's keep in mind that a lot of detail about his relationship with Snoke weren't included in the movie so that the GA is unaware of these details. So I don't blame them for thinking that Kylo is a Vader fanboy who tries hard to be like his Grandfather on his own will. I think that the most of the people actually could perfectly related to Kylo if they are given a good reason to relate to him. On tumblr, a person made a post asking why Rey shall end with Kylo, a murderer who hurt her and her friends. This was non-aggressive so I tried my best to give a proper answer and that person reacted quite well to the clues I gave him. Basically, it was someone who was unaware about these details regarding Snoke and Kylo's relationship. And once he knew about that, he told me that had he known that from the movie, he would have seen Kylo differently. So I am confident that a lot of people will react well to the grey area.

What I don't like is the small part of the fanboy who refuse to see the potentiality behind grey area and doesn't trust LF about the direction they intend to bring the GA. What I don't like is the small part of the fandom who "hate" Kylo - and thus "hate" Reylo - as if hate was the proper answer to their frustration toward the character: either because he doesn't embody their ideal Vader 2 and/or because he killed a beloved character and/or because he is an unsteady emo child. What I don't like are the reactions of this small part of the fandom who doesn't want to hear about any character development and/or any clue that would contradict what they want: make him pay/die for his crimes. To this people, I hope that Rian will give them a lesson, why not by giving them what they want in the most unexpected way.

@reylo1992

My comments weren’t really so much about nuance vs black and white and why we should love it/hate it.  My comments were about letting your employees speak out on social media that go directly against your comapny’s vision, or make insulting remarks against other employees at your same company (JJ Abrams, for example).  I’m not normally one who inhibits free speech, but if I were do at my own company what Pablo is very visibly doing with his Twitter account, I would have been fired awhile ago.

@IoJovi

For that, I do agree with you. I mean, I've probably missed the whole story about Pablo criticizing Adam but of course I agree with you that he shouldn't criticize like he did and he shouldn't make people think that his opinions in his tweets are LF's .  

Now, I have personally no problem with Pablo  expressing his own opinion about black/white characters if he makes it clear in his tweets that these are his personal opinions and not LF's. After all, it is his good right to have this opinion, and given the tweets he gets, he's not the only one in the fandom. As long as he makes it clear that he expresses his personal opinion and LF gives him the right to do so, I am fine with this.

vaderito wrote:he gave different answers when asked about Mortis. So that's a type of balance that he is into but not this grey stuff. Ask him about Yin and Yang, which isn't grey, and see what he says. It's a matter of definition. If you ask him about grey crap, he won't correct you and say "I think you actually mean ________ and in that case yes." he thrives of bad questions so to speak.

@vaderito
Yep, Pablo can only answer what people ask, and when people ask continuously about the term "grey" his stance remains the same. And anyway, he's right. There is no middle-point between good and evil. You can't be kinda-sorta-evil-but-also-sorta-good, do good things one second and evil things the next, flip-flop, whatever. There has to be a division. Good keeps evil at bay.

Now, if someone were to ask him whether or not "dark" = evil and "light" = good, I think his answer would also be different. He has no problem with the concept of Yin and Yang/Mortis/Bendu, but he understandably dislikes good and evil being unseparated and undefined. No grey mush, but the notion that light and dark have to exist in harmony isn't that. Evil still exists and good still exists. They are still separate, but they bind each other.

Darth Dingbat wrote:

Night Huntress wrote:

IoJovi wrote:

For the record, I will also say I enjoy Pablo and his snark 90% of the time, but from a business standpoint he sometimes crossed a line he shouldn’t.

@IoJovi

I totally agree. I'm a bit confused he didn't get in trouble for some of his postings/tweets (whatever they are called) - not that I want him to... on the other hand... Maybe LF let him keep the fans busy and confused with his personal point of view

@Night Huntress

I was also surprised that Pablo has broadcasted his opinion on Twitter several times that he doesn't like TFA much. In fact, he has gone on record saying that he ranks even TPM over TFA. In fact, he only liked AOTC less, if I remember correctly.

No company can tell their employees what to think, but besides all the other stuff he's said (contradicting JJ and Adam, etc), I admit I raised my eyebrows at that. How many companies would be fine with their employers publically stating they don't really like the company's main product? "I may work in an executive position at Whippersnapper Waffles, but in my honest opinion, I think the waffles are kind of meh"? Nobody's forcing you to eat the waffles, but no need to make your opinion clear on social media...

@Darth Dingbat

Yeah, my jaw kind of dropped with the way that Pablo was slagging off on TFA...particularly after Rogue One dropped.

I find it kind of hilarious that he has to work with JJ/Bad Robot again now.