Discussion: Podcasts

It seems my question about how closely the writers worked with *each other* regardless of what was planned at the outset was answered in another thread where J.J. talks about just how closely he and Rian worked together. To a pretty intense degree. And now the reins are back in J.J.'s hands. So what they have planned or don't is sort of moot now I suppose; the conversation would be more significant if it was in fact Colin Trevorrow still at the helm, but it's not. Again, my concern and confusion stems from the fact that I KNOW from an intellectual standpoint and also in my gut that there are things dropped in The Force Awakens, specific things, that telegraph the ending. It serves that J.J. put them there hoping that the other writers would follow the thread, but with Rian on that business like an excited puppy after him anyway, they were perhaps able to put the question of how well the last writer would follow that same path for quite a long time. Again, these worries are all moot now since J.J. is going to finish what he started, and obviously he knows his own threads. I'm sufficiently reassured.

And yes, I do feel that what was unsaid in that Rian quote about deciding Rey's parentage where he listed all possible options is: "Her being a Skywalker/Solo was the only thing that wasn't possible."

nickandnora wrote:It seems my question about how closely the writers worked with *each other* regardless of what was planned at the outset was answered in another thread where J.J. talks about just how closely he and Rian worked together. To a pretty intense degree. And now the reins are back in J.J.'s hands. So what they have planned or don't is sort of moot now I suppose; the conversation would be more significant if it was in fact Colin Trevorrow still at the helm, but it's not. Again, my concern and confusion stems from the fact that I KNOW from an intellectual standpoint and also in my gut that there are things dropped in The Force Awakens, specific things, that telegraph the ending. It serves that J.J. put them there hoping that the other writers would follow the thread, but with Rian on that business like an excited puppy after him anyway, they were perhaps able to put the question of how well the last writer would follow that same path for quite a long time. Again, these worries are all moot now since J.J. is going to finish what he started, and obviously he knows his own threads. I'm sufficiently reassured.

And yes, I do feel that what was unsaid in that Rian quote about deciding Rey's parentage where he listed all possible options is: "Her being a Skywalker/Solo was the only thing that wasn't possible."

@nickandnora

I agree that it does make it sort of a moot point that JJ is back at the helm of IX. If Colin were at the helm, even though I call bunk on it, plotgate would certainly make me slightly more nervous.  

Out of curiosity, what were your thoughts on where things were headed, or more specifically what things do you see being dropped in TLJ that were set up in TFA?

I'm sure RJ could have written whatever he wanted, but that didn't mean KK/Lucasfilm/Disney were going to approve everything. Fortunately, Rian's vision matched JJ's and Disney's and he had the freedom he needed to write his story.

I also have the impression that Reylo has been planned from the get-go, and as a result there's a general idea of what TPTB want to accomplish with Kylo and Rey when it's all said and done. There simply is too much attention to detail and intent behind those two characters for their storyline to merely be something improvised. And here's to hopping those two get a happy end together. Even the official artbook from TLJ has some very old art of those two characters that predates TLJ production. In some of the art, Rey is still refereed to as Kira.

Rian could have sent Finn to any planet in the galaxy in order to give him character development, and it wouldn't have impacted the A storyline. He could have infiltrated a palace in Naboo or some fancy place in Coruscant with the same results. Poe could have done whatever in TLJ and he won't change the course of the main story. The overall arcs for those two characters don't seem as planned and it shows in the movies. Meanwhile, with Kylo and Rey, there's clearly been a plan set in motion from the moment the trilogy was put together. And I'm also willing to bet that Han's death and its impact on Kylo's journey throughout the trilogy was something set in stone from early on.

IoJovi wrote:

nickandnora wrote:It seems my question about how closely the writers worked with *each other* regardless of what was planned at the outset was answered in another thread where J.J. talks about just how closely he and Rian worked together. To a pretty intense degree. And now the reins are back in J.J.'s hands. So what they have planned or don't is sort of moot now I suppose; the conversation would be more significant if it was in fact Colin Trevorrow still at the helm, but it's not. Again, my concern and confusion stems from the fact that I KNOW from an intellectual standpoint and also in my gut that there are things dropped in The Force Awakens, specific things, that telegraph the ending. It serves that J.J. put them there hoping that the other writers would follow the thread, but with Rian on that business like an excited puppy after him anyway, they were perhaps able to put the question of how well the last writer would follow that same path for quite a long time. Again, these worries are all moot now since J.J. is going to finish what he started, and obviously he knows his own threads. I'm sufficiently reassured.

And yes, I do feel that what was unsaid in that Rian quote about deciding Rey's parentage where he listed all possible options is: "Her being a Skywalker/Solo was the only thing that wasn't possible."

@nickandnora

I agree that it does make it sort of a moot point that JJ is back at the helm of IX. If Colin were at the helm, even though I call bunk on it, plotgate would certainly make me slightly more nervous.  

Out of curiosity, what were your thoughts on where things were headed, or more specifically what things do you see being dropped in TLJ that were set up in TFA?

@IoJovi

I've been trying to discuss somewhat organically in other threads when the topics at hand come up, but would it be a cop-out to say that I'm afraid to come right out, make a claim, and be super specific (even though my predictions are insanely specific) and then be... wrong? lol It's purely a pride thing; I'm embarrassed of seeming certain and then foolish.

In a *general* sense, the main Reylo related thing is their final end destination in IX. J.J definitely had an idea there (or I should say, I'm definitely seeing all the seeds of an idea). Whether or not it was *his* idea, or the storygroup's idea is up in the air I guess... that is, if I'm in fact seeing things that are actually there, and not projecting my own storytelling desires onto the film (which is entirely possible).

nickandnora wrote:

IoJovi wrote:

nickandnora wrote:It seems my question about how closely the writers worked with *each other* regardless of what was planned at the outset was answered in another thread where J.J. talks about just how closely he and Rian worked together. To a pretty intense degree. And now the reins are back in J.J.'s hands. So what they have planned or don't is sort of moot now I suppose; the conversation would be more significant if it was in fact Colin Trevorrow still at the helm, but it's not. Again, my concern and confusion stems from the fact that I KNOW from an intellectual standpoint and also in my gut that there are things dropped in The Force Awakens, specific things, that telegraph the ending. It serves that J.J. put them there hoping that the other writers would follow the thread, but with Rian on that business like an excited puppy after him anyway, they were perhaps able to put the question of how well the last writer would follow that same path for quite a long time. Again, these worries are all moot now since J.J. is going to finish what he started, and obviously he knows his own threads. I'm sufficiently reassured.

And yes, I do feel that what was unsaid in that Rian quote about deciding Rey's parentage where he listed all possible options is: "Her being a Skywalker/Solo was the only thing that wasn't possible."

@nickandnora

I agree that it does make it sort of a moot point that JJ is back at the helm of IX. If Colin were at the helm, even though I call bunk on it, plotgate would certainly make me slightly more nervous.  

Out of curiosity, what were your thoughts on where things were headed, or more specifically what things do you see being dropped in TLJ that were set up in TFA?

@IoJovi

I've been trying to discuss somewhat organically in other threads when the topics at hand come up, but would it be a cop-out to say that I'm afraid to come right out, make a claim, and be super specific (even though my predictions are insanely specific) and then be... wrong? lol It's purely a pride thing; I'm embarrassed of seeming certain and then foolish.

In a *general* sense, the main Reylo related thing is their final end destination in IX. J.J definitely had an idea there (or I should say, I'm definitely seeing all the seeds of an idea). Whether or not it was *his* idea, or the storygroup's idea is up in the air I guess. That is, if I'm in fact seeing things that are actually there, and not projecting my own storytelling desires onto the film.

@nickandnora
Don't be afraid! We've hashed out and discussed lots of theories over the past two years. Many turned out to be right, others were totally wrong. No shame in it. We aren't writing the movies, after all. We can only analyze the textual evidence that exists. Narrative/film analysis worked for TFA, which of course means they knew what they were doing when they planned the Rey and Kylo relationship at the very least. 

You should check out the JJ thread in the IX section of the board. @MyOnlyHope posted some great old quotes from JJ in which he describes how closely he worked with Rian. 

nickandnora wrote:

IoJovi wrote:

nickandnora wrote:It seems my question about how closely the writers worked with *each other* regardless of what was planned at the outset was answered in another thread where J.J. talks about just how closely he and Rian worked together. To a pretty intense degree. And now the reins are back in J.J.'s hands. So what they have planned or don't is sort of moot now I suppose; the conversation would be more significant if it was in fact Colin Trevorrow still at the helm, but it's not. Again, my concern and confusion stems from the fact that I KNOW from an intellectual standpoint and also in my gut that there are things dropped in The Force Awakens, specific things, that telegraph the ending. It serves that J.J. put them there hoping that the other writers would follow the thread, but with Rian on that business like an excited puppy after him anyway, they were perhaps able to put the question of how well the last writer would follow that same path for quite a long time. Again, these worries are all moot now since J.J. is going to finish what he started, and obviously he knows his own threads. I'm sufficiently reassured.

And yes, I do feel that what was unsaid in that Rian quote about deciding Rey's parentage where he listed all possible options is: "Her being a Skywalker/Solo was the only thing that wasn't possible."

@nickandnora

I agree that it does make it sort of a moot point that JJ is back at the helm of IX. If Colin were at the helm, even though I call bunk on it, plotgate would certainly make me slightly more nervous.  

Out of curiosity, what were your thoughts on where things were headed, or more specifically what things do you see being dropped in TLJ that were set up in TFA?

@IoJovi

I've been trying to discuss somewhat organically in other threads when the topics at hand come up, but would it be a cop-out to say that I'm afraid to come right out, make a claim, and be super specific (even though my predictions are insanely specific) and then be... wrong? lol It's purely a pride thing; I'm embarrassed of seeming certain and then foolish.

In a *general* sense, the main Reylo related thing is their final end destination in IX. J.J definitely had an idea there (or I should say, I'm definitely seeing all the seeds of an idea). Whether or not it was *his* idea, or the storygroup's idea is up in the air I guess... that is, if I'm in fact seeing things that are actually there, and not projecting my own storytelling desires onto the film (which is entirely possible).

@nickandnora

Oh I totally get that and understand where you are coming from.  Still, a lot of us spitball ideas around all the time, or throw gum at the wall and see what sticks.  @SoloSideCousin went back and forth with this all the time with a Dark Luke scenario for months, and ultimately a lot of what I envisioned ended up not being quite what I had imagined when all was said and done.  Still, it was fun throwing around ideas and seeing what worked and what didn't, so I have no regrets...

EDIT: @FrolickingFizzgig I agree, that really was a great find!

I loved the theory of Dark Luke! But alas, we got 'dark' Luke only from Kylo's perspective.

Unfortunately I didn't understand very well what we are arguing . Excuse me if I did not understand correctly. Are you saying that Reylo came out for the directors' decision? I don't believe it. I mean it's like saying that Disney at the half of story decides if marry Cinderella or not. I believe that Reylo was the basis of this story. I'm certainly not an expert. But it seems to me that they wanted to tell the story that closes the Skywalker saga. Recounted by someone like Anakin who was "nobody", but in the end she was "all" for the Skywalker /Solo.
The last remaining Skywalker is only one. I think the plot is already written. The director could choose how to represent it, add words, Inspirations, Poetry. Now I don't know if Kylo will survive or not. But Kylo/Ben is the character that emerges in every step of Rey. We watch Rey and see Kylo / Ben. They are a mirror. If Disney wanted to make a lot of money I would choose Kylo Ben to redeem himself and become a hero in which boys can recognize themselves (and buy toys and books and CDs and comics.) Of course they could decide that it's Rey's story and Kylo is only her's a bad lover but I do not see solution for this story in this way.

nickandnora wrote:It seems my question about how closely the writers worked with *each other* regardless of what was planned at the outset was answered in another thread where J.J. talks about just how closely he and Rian worked together. To a pretty intense degree. And now the reins are back in J.J.'s hands. So what they have planned or don't is sort of moot now I suppose; the conversation would be more significant if it was in fact Colin Trevorrow still at the helm, but it's not. Again, my concern and confusion stems from the fact that I KNOW from an intellectual standpoint and also in my gut that there are things dropped in The Force Awakens, specific things, that telegraph the ending. It serves that J.J. put them there hoping that the other writers would follow the thread, but with Rian on that business like an excited puppy after him anyway, they were perhaps able to put the question of how well the last writer would follow that same path for quite a long time. Again, these worries are all moot now since J.J. is going to finish what he started, and obviously he knows his own threads. I'm sufficiently reassured.

And yes, I do feel that what was unsaid in that Rian quote about deciding Rey's parentage where he listed all possible options is: "Her being a Skywalker/Solo was the only thing that wasn't possible."

@nickandnora
Exactly! After seeing how closely J.J. and Rian collaborated, PlotGate becomes a moot point. J.J. and Rian share aligning visions. They've been conversing and collaborating for years. The transition between VIII and IX is going to be so smooth.

So in a lot of cases, PlotGate is totally real, not to mention obvious. Characters like Poe and Finn were given no directive whatsoever in TFA. The same is true now after IX. Their stories are literally being relay raced across three films, and yeah, you can tell.

The cool thing about writing Rey and Kylo is that all you really need to keep in mind when continuing their story are themes and big ideas. Stuff like mutual attraction between the dark and light (as represented literally in a young man and woman), the transition from childhood to adulthood, falling to the dark side as a metaphor for losing one's way while growing up, "sexual" awakening (as represented by the Force), and, of course, redemption (the idea that we can all learn from our bad choices and choose to do better) How all that good stuff manifests itself is what's up in the air. While Finn and Poe's stories are definitely being relay raced, Rey and Kylo's story is probably more of a fill in the blanks.

@ISeeAnIsland @Kylo Rey It's based on a novel and shorthand would be that it's To Serve Man meets The Man Who Fell to Earth. Extraterrestrial takes the form of a young, attractive human female and drives around Scotland in a van, luring hitchhiking men in via means of seduction only to 'prep' them for consumption.

Wikipedia wrote:The novel is darkly satirical. Its themes include sexism, big business, factory farming, and environmental decay; and reflects on more personal questions of sexual identity, humanity, snobbery, and mercy.

The mirror shot of Rey's multiplicities and the sequence with Eleven in the first series of Stranger Things references this somewhat NSFW (butt shot) when one of the victims is lured into undressing because he believes he's going to have sex with ScarJo's character but she's luring him in and prepping him in for food

vaderito wrote:There's no way that LF would have let an individual director decide whether there's 1 or 2 or more Skywalkers left in the trilogy. The decision that Kylo was the last one was made by TPTB. Rey was unrelated so it didn't matter whether her parents were garbage pickers, kings or descendants from Obi Wan or Palpatine. The main thing was that Rey and Kylo were never meant to be related cause romance, last Skywalker.

@vaderito

@nickandnora, @Darth Dingbat

There is no Plotgate. I wrote a post a couple of weeks ago with all kinds of documented evidence that proved JJ, LK and RJ set up the whole thing. Rian was in place months before JJ even started filming.

@snufkin, how do I find that old post?

Also, this new revelation that Rian had to constantly send in things to Kirk Hart proves it all the more ... because that is the same method that the SW writers talked about Dragoncon. The writers were given freedom and no architecture until they got the message back from the Storygroup that said, "No, you can't do that, try again," with little to no explanation. Rian Johnson is talking the party line just like you suspected @nickandnora.

Maria Antonietta wrote:

PalmettoBlue wrote:Uhhh...so, I have a podcast. And I thought I'd mention it. Since I'm a Reylo...it's Reylo friendly. If y'all like to give us a listen, we're on SoundCloud and I-tunes.
Our most recent episode is: Balancing on the Blade of a Lightsaber (The concept of balance in Star Wars.) Naturally, I can't be trusted not to make pro-Reylo comments periodically. Fair warning: Southern accents abound - some might even call it country. In at least one part, I swear the ladies from s*** Southern Women Say would approve.

Here's the Soundcloud link:Soundcloud
I-tunes:I-tunes

I hope those links work (in case anyone is interested....)

@PalmettoBlue

I love Southern accent

@Maria Antonietta

Thank you! I hope you enjoy the podcast if you decide to give it a listen. I'm getting more comfortable on the microphone, so I think it's creeping out even more because I'm not struggling to sound more academic than I actually am.

SoloSideCousin wrote:

vaderito wrote:There's no way that LF would have let an individual director decide whether there's 1 or 2 or more Skywalkers left in the trilogy. The decision that Kylo was the last one was made by TPTB. Rey was unrelated so it didn't matter whether her parents were garbage pickers, kings or descendants from Obi Wan or Palpatine. The main thing was that Rey and Kylo were never meant to be related cause romance, last Skywalker.

@vaderito

@nickandnora, @Darth Dingbat

There is no Plotgate. I wrote a post a couple of weeks ago with all kinds of documented evidence that proved JJ, LK and RJ set up the whole thing. Rian was in place months before JJ even started filming.

@snufkin, how do I find that old post?

Also, this new revelation that Rian had to constantly send in things to Kirk Hart proves it all the more ... because that is the same method that the SW writers talked about Dragoncon. The writers were given freedom and no architecture until they got the message back from the Storygroup that said, "No, you can't do that, try again," with little to no explanation. Rian Johnson is talking the party line just like you suspected @nickandnora.

@SoloSideCousin

This. I’ll also concur the writer’s panels at DragonCon were really eye opening. I adore Rian, but there is zero chance he has the free reign that he says he does. I’ve compiled a mountain of evidence against it too, but unfortunately I don’t have it in one concise place. I’d love to see your post!

@Darth Dingbat

"It was the same when John Williams said he didn't know anything about anything. It immediately made the soundtrack to TFA sound like largely meaningless, pretty music to me, and before that I'd been struck not only by its beauty but by its details and layers."


John Williams was present during the "crucial" December 2013 meeting, where JJ pitched the story he and Kasdan had developed.  I'm confident Reylo was part of that discussion, and Williams has known where this story was headed from the beginning.  JJ likely had many conversations with him about Rey and Kylo.

Gemlake wrote:@Darth Dingbat

"It was the same when John Williams said he didn't know anything about anything. It immediately made the soundtrack to TFA sound like largely meaningless, pretty music to me, and before that I'd been struck not only by its beauty but by its details and layers."


John Williams was present during the "crucial" December 2013 meeting, where JJ pitched the story he and Kasdan had developed.  I'm confident Reylo was part of that discussion, and Williams has known where this story was headed from the beginning.  JJ likely had many conversations with him about Rey and Kylo.

@Gemlake

I knew JW was trolling when asked who Rey's parents were with "I don't know, but I think she's probably Luke's daughter on the day it was released, but unfortunately not everyone digs as deep as we do.  It still doesn't change the fact that I believe everything in the soundtrack is indeed meaningful and with purpose, but I also won't deny these little mystery box marketing instances take away from the beauty that they've created.

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

Saracene wrote:Just wanted to add, the reason we're residing in our little echo chamber here is because we actually take romantic love as a serious story element and not a silly frivolous thing that's only relevant to shippers and tumblr fangirls. It's impossible to overstate the sheer cringe factor that's often associated with the romance in the wider discussions. I know I had to overcome a mental block of sorts in order to discuss romantic Reylo in an open matter-of-fact manner in the other corners of the internet.

@Saracene
Oh, I'm endlessly amused that despite two years of being called delusional fangirls Rian et al. obviously considered romantic attachment to be a very real and impactful story element. 

Today I was reminiscing a bit about Death and the Maiden's initial predictions surrounding Kylo's one-sided obsession and Rey choosing the "nice guy" after her cautionary tale with the sensual villain. The irony is this is now what the antis are clinging to as a story. The very first popular Reylo meta is the best they can hope for, and it's already 100% nonsense given the fact that Rey clearly has deep feelings for Ben. Her vision gives her this look of wonder and a single tear falls down her face. She just saw Kylo killing Snoke? Sure, Jan. 

It's like they've had to slowly climb up the rungs of a ladder, accepting each step as it came to them. Funny for a bunch of geniuses who were adamant that Kylo would never develop feelings for the girl he envied and feared. Now he's making "I'm just a girl" confessions and the only thing they can cling to is retcon and the Skywalker line being wiped out. HAHAHA.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Then there are those who still strongly believe that Rey is a Skywalker.  Their ladder is quite long, possibly never ending.

Ohtze's original analysis put a lot of weight into the bridal carry, which, of course, is evocative of a Phantom of the Opera/one sided relationship.  My personal belief is that the bridal carry was a holdover from the Jedi Killer phase of the script. And JJ simply kept the scene.

@SoloSideCousin - sorry I've forgotten what old discussion I may have referenced. Which old post and I'll try to hunt it down for you.

PalmettoBlue wrote:

Maria Antonietta wrote:

PalmettoBlue wrote:Uhhh...so, I have a podcast. And I thought I'd mention it. Since I'm a Reylo...it's Reylo friendly. If y'all like to give us a listen, we're on SoundCloud and I-tunes.
Our most recent episode is: Balancing on the Blade of a Lightsaber (The concept of balance in Star Wars.) Naturally, I can't be trusted not to make pro-Reylo comments periodically. Fair warning: Southern accents abound - some might even call it country. In at least one part, I swear the ladies from s*** Southern Women Say would approve.

Here's the Soundcloud link:Soundcloud
I-tunes:I-tunes

I hope those links work (in case anyone is interested....)

@PalmettoBlue

I love Southern accent

@Maria Antonietta

Thank you! I hope you enjoy the podcast if you decide to give it a listen. I'm getting more comfortable on the microphone, so I think it's creeping out even more because I'm not struggling to sound more academic than I actually am.

@PalmettoBlue

So nearly almost all of my family is Southern and it's funny how the accent is perceived internally within the US to mean provincial, stupid, and ignorant. There are some actors/actresses who speak and perform within their original accent and dialect, but most people feel like if they want to be taken seriously as intelligent and professional, they smooth it out. See nearly every one of my relatives who worked in a technical field, especially if they left the South. Meanwhile non-Americans love that accent in terms of loving how it sounds compared to other standard English dialects. And it's not even one specific type of accent, pronunciation, or dialect. It's a range and varies on the historic nationalities (European colonizers, First Nations, and West African enslaved nations) and migration patterns for the region. I'm used to the more soft sounds of my relatives (Arkansas, Western Tennessee, Louisiana, and Central Texas) but other parts of the South? Especially further down the Bible Belt? Completely different cadence that definitely does not sound familiar to my ears. I don't think it's exactly Code Switching, but it's at least a different dialect going back and forth between talking with some of my relatives versus most of the time how I speak.

snufkin wrote:@SoloSideCousin - sorry I've forgotten what old discussion I may have referenced. Which old post and I'll try to hunt it down for you.

PalmettoBlue wrote:

Maria Antonietta wrote:

PalmettoBlue wrote:Uhhh...so, I have a podcast. And I thought I'd mention it. Since I'm a Reylo...it's Reylo friendly. If y'all like to give us a listen, we're on SoundCloud and I-tunes.
Our most recent episode is: Balancing on the Blade of a Lightsaber (The concept of balance in Star Wars.) Naturally, I can't be trusted not to make pro-Reylo comments periodically. Fair warning: Southern accents abound - some might even call it country. In at least one part, I swear the ladies from s*** Southern Women Say would approve.

Here's the Soundcloud link:Soundcloud
I-tunes:I-tunes

I hope those links work (in case anyone is interested....)

@PalmettoBlue

I love Southern accent

@Maria Antonietta

Thank you! I hope you enjoy the podcast if you decide to give it a listen. I'm getting more comfortable on the microphone, so I think it's creeping out even more because I'm not struggling to sound more academic than I actually am.

@PalmettoBlue

So nearly almost all of my family is Southern and it's funny how the accent is perceived internally within the US to mean provincial, stupid, and ignorant. There are some actors/actresses who speak and perform within their original accent and dialect, but most people feel like if they want to be taken seriously as intelligent and professional, they smooth it out. See nearly every one of my relatives who worked in a technical field, especially if they left the South. Meanwhile non-Americans love that accent in terms of loving how it sounds compared to other standard English dialects. And it's not even one specific type of accent, pronunciation, or dialect. It's a range and varies on the historic nationalities (European colonizers, First Nations, and West African enslaved nations) and migration patterns for the region. I'm used to the more soft sounds of my relatives (Arkansas, Western Tennessee, Louisiana, and Central Texas) but other parts of the South? Especially further down the Bible Belt? Completely different cadence that definitely does not sound familiar to my ears. I don't think it's exactly Code Switching, but it's at least a different dialect going back and forth between talking with some of my relatives versus most of the time how I speak.

@snufkin
You are so right - people tend to hear me speak and automatically deduct 20 points from my IQ. And I think that carries over into the podcast given a bit of the feedback we've gotten. I have found that phenomena to be true for many southerners.
I did use a very southern/country phrase that I wouldn't normally use on a podcast, but I got carried away and lost myself. But it fit so well....

Gemlake wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

Saracene wrote:Just wanted to add, the reason we're residing in our little echo chamber here is because we actually take romantic love as a serious story element and not a silly frivolous thing that's only relevant to shippers and tumblr fangirls. It's impossible to overstate the sheer cringe factor that's often associated with the romance in the wider discussions. I know I had to overcome a mental block of sorts in order to discuss romantic Reylo in an open matter-of-fact manner in the other corners of the internet.

@Saracene
Oh, I'm endlessly amused that despite two years of being called delusional fangirls Rian et al. obviously considered romantic attachment to be a very real and impactful story element. 

Today I was reminiscing a bit about Death and the Maiden's initial predictions surrounding Kylo's one-sided obsession and Rey choosing the "nice guy" after her cautionary tale with the sensual villain. The irony is this is now what the antis are clinging to as a story. The very first popular Reylo meta is the best they can hope for, and it's already 100% nonsense given the fact that Rey clearly has deep feelings for Ben. Her vision gives her this look of wonder and a single tear falls down her face. She just saw Kylo killing Snoke? Sure, Jan. 

It's like they've had to slowly climb up the rungs of a ladder, accepting each step as it came to them. Funny for a bunch of geniuses who were adamant that Kylo would never develop feelings for the girl he envied and feared. Now he's making "I'm just a girl" confessions and the only thing they can cling to is retcon and the Skywalker line being wiped out. HAHAHA.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Then there are those who still strongly believe that Rey is a Skywalker.  Their ladder is quite long, possibly never ending.

Ohtze's original analysis put a lot of weight into the bridal carry, which, of course, is evocative of a Phantom of the Opera/one sided relationship.  My personal belief is that the bridal carry was a holdover from the Jedi Killer phase of the script. And JJ simply kept the scene.

@Gemlake

If I recall, the Bridal Carry was a late-add by JJ. At the very least, I don't think it was in the shooting script or novelizations. So, while it was certainly another data point pointing to Reylo, it probably shouldn't have been used as the definitive moment to determine how Reylo was going to play out.

PalmettoBlue wrote:

snufkin wrote:@SoloSideCousin - sorry I've forgotten what old discussion I may have referenced. Which old post and I'll try to hunt it down for you.

PalmettoBlue wrote:

Maria Antonietta wrote:

PalmettoBlue wrote:Uhhh...so, I have a podcast. And I thought I'd mention it. Since I'm a Reylo...it's Reylo friendly. If y'all like to give us a listen, we're on SoundCloud and I-tunes.
Our most recent episode is: Balancing on the Blade of a Lightsaber (The concept of balance in Star Wars.) Naturally, I can't be trusted not to make pro-Reylo comments periodically. Fair warning: Southern accents abound - some might even call it country. In at least one part, I swear the ladies from s*** Southern Women Say would approve.

Here's the Soundcloud link:Soundcloud
I-tunes:I-tunes

I hope those links work (in case anyone is interested....)

@PalmettoBlue

I love Southern accent

@Maria Antonietta

Thank you! I hope you enjoy the podcast if you decide to give it a listen. I'm getting more comfortable on the microphone, so I think it's creeping out even more because I'm not struggling to sound more academic than I actually am.

@PalmettoBlue

So nearly almost all of my family is Southern and it's funny how the accent is perceived internally within the US to mean provincial, stupid, and ignorant. There are some actors/actresses who speak and perform within their original accent and dialect, but most people feel like if they want to be taken seriously as intelligent and professional, they smooth it out. See nearly every one of my relatives who worked in a technical field, especially if they left the South. Meanwhile non-Americans love that accent in terms of loving how it sounds compared to other standard English dialects. And it's not even one specific type of accent, pronunciation, or dialect. It's a range and varies on the historic nationalities (European colonizers, First Nations, and West African enslaved nations) and migration patterns for the region. I'm used to the more soft sounds of my relatives (Arkansas, Western Tennessee, Louisiana, and Central Texas) but other parts of the South? Especially further down the Bible Belt? Completely different cadence that definitely does not sound familiar to my ears. I don't think it's exactly Code Switching, but it's at least a different dialect going back and forth between talking with some of my relatives versus most of the time how I speak.

@snufkin
You are so right - people tend to hear me speak and automatically deduct 20 points from my IQ. And I think that carries over into the podcast given a bit of the feedback we've gotten. I have found that phenomena to be true for many southerners.
I did use a very southern/country phrase that I wouldn't normally use on a podcast, but I got carried away and lost myself. But it fit so well....

@PalmettoBlue

I FAINT WHEN I HEAR MATTHEW MCCONAUGHEY TALK I want to marry a cowboy

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

Gemlake wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

Saracene wrote:Just wanted to add, the reason we're residing in our little echo chamber here is because we actually take romantic love as a serious story element and not a silly frivolous thing that's only relevant to shippers and tumblr fangirls. It's impossible to overstate the sheer cringe factor that's often associated with the romance in the wider discussions. I know I had to overcome a mental block of sorts in order to discuss romantic Reylo in an open matter-of-fact manner in the other corners of the internet.

@Saracene
Oh, I'm endlessly amused that despite two years of being called delusional fangirls Rian et al. obviously considered romantic attachment to be a very real and impactful story element. 

Today I was reminiscing a bit about Death and the Maiden's initial predictions surrounding Kylo's one-sided obsession and Rey choosing the "nice guy" after her cautionary tale with the sensual villain. The irony is this is now what the antis are clinging to as a story. The very first popular Reylo meta is the best they can hope for, and it's already 100% nonsense given the fact that Rey clearly has deep feelings for Ben. Her vision gives her this look of wonder and a single tear falls down her face. She just saw Kylo killing Snoke? Sure, Jan. 

It's like they've had to slowly climb up the rungs of a ladder, accepting each step as it came to them. Funny for a bunch of geniuses who were adamant that Kylo would never develop feelings for the girl he envied and feared. Now he's making "I'm just a girl" confessions and the only thing they can cling to is retcon and the Skywalker line being wiped out. HAHAHA.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Then there are those who still strongly believe that Rey is a Skywalker.  Their ladder is quite long, possibly never ending.

Ohtze's original analysis put a lot of weight into the bridal carry, which, of course, is evocative of a Phantom of the Opera/one sided relationship.  My personal belief is that the bridal carry was a holdover from the Jedi Killer phase of the script.  And JJ simply kept the scene.

@Gemlake

If I recall, the Bridal Carry was a late-add by JJ.  At the very least, I don't think it was in the shooting script or novelizations. So, while it was certainly another data point pointing to Reylo, it probably shouldn't have been used as the definitive moment to determine how Reylo was going to play out.

@ISeeAnIsland

From what I recall, I think Rey was orginally supposed to fall off screen when Kylo rendered her unconscious (so he wasn’t supposed to catch her), but he was always supposed to carry her to his ship which is what Han and Finn see. That makes sense because Han and Finn’s reactions are important (Han sees his son and Finn sees Rey being taken).

Kessel wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

Gemlake wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

Saracene wrote:Just wanted to add, the reason we're residing in our little echo chamber here is because we actually take romantic love as a serious story element and not a silly frivolous thing that's only relevant to shippers and tumblr fangirls. It's impossible to overstate the sheer cringe factor that's often associated with the romance in the wider discussions. I know I had to overcome a mental block of sorts in order to discuss romantic Reylo in an open matter-of-fact manner in the other corners of the internet.

@Saracene
Oh, I'm endlessly amused that despite two years of being called delusional fangirls Rian et al. obviously considered romantic attachment to be a very real and impactful story element. 

Today I was reminiscing a bit about Death and the Maiden's initial predictions surrounding Kylo's one-sided obsession and Rey choosing the "nice guy" after her cautionary tale with the sensual villain. The irony is this is now what the antis are clinging to as a story. The very first popular Reylo meta is the best they can hope for, and it's already 100% nonsense given the fact that Rey clearly has deep feelings for Ben. Her vision gives her this look of wonder and a single tear falls down her face. She just saw Kylo killing Snoke? Sure, Jan. 

It's like they've had to slowly climb up the rungs of a ladder, accepting each step as it came to them. Funny for a bunch of geniuses who were adamant that Kylo would never develop feelings for the girl he envied and feared. Now he's making "I'm just a girl" confessions and the only thing they can cling to is retcon and the Skywalker line being wiped out. HAHAHA.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Then there are those who still strongly believe that Rey is a Skywalker.  Their ladder is quite long, possibly never ending.

Ohtze's original analysis put a lot of weight into the bridal carry, which, of course, is evocative of a Phantom of the Opera/one sided relationship.  My personal belief is that the bridal carry was a holdover from the Jedi Killer phase of the script.  And JJ simply kept the scene.

@Gemlake

If I recall, the Bridal Carry was a late-add by JJ.  At the very least, I don't think it was in the shooting script or novelizations. So, while it was certainly another data point pointing to Reylo, it probably shouldn't have been used as the definitive moment to determine how Reylo was going to play out.

@ISeeAnIsland

From what I recall, I think Rey was orginally supposed to fall off screen when Kylo rendered her unconscious (so he wasn’t supposed to catch her), but he was always supposed to carry her to his ship which is what Han and Finn see. That makes sense because Han and Finn’s reactions are important (Han sees his son and Finn sees Rey being taken).

@Kessel

I think you're correct on that. I think I misremembered the details on that.

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

Kessel wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

Gemlake wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

Saracene wrote:Just wanted to add, the reason we're residing in our little echo chamber here is because we actually take romantic love as a serious story element and not a silly frivolous thing that's only relevant to shippers and tumblr fangirls. It's impossible to overstate the sheer cringe factor that's often associated with the romance in the wider discussions. I know I had to overcome a mental block of sorts in order to discuss romantic Reylo in an open matter-of-fact manner in the other corners of the internet.

@Saracene
Oh, I'm endlessly amused that despite two years of being called delusional fangirls Rian et al. obviously considered romantic attachment to be a very real and impactful story element. 

Today I was reminiscing a bit about Death and the Maiden's initial predictions surrounding Kylo's one-sided obsession and Rey choosing the "nice guy" after her cautionary tale with the sensual villain. The irony is this is now what the antis are clinging to as a story. The very first popular Reylo meta is the best they can hope for, and it's already 100% nonsense given the fact that Rey clearly has deep feelings for Ben. Her vision gives her this look of wonder and a single tear falls down her face. She just saw Kylo killing Snoke? Sure, Jan. 

It's like they've had to slowly climb up the rungs of a ladder, accepting each step as it came to them. Funny for a bunch of geniuses who were adamant that Kylo would never develop feelings for the girl he envied and feared. Now he's making "I'm just a girl" confessions and the only thing they can cling to is retcon and the Skywalker line being wiped out. HAHAHA.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Then there are those who still strongly believe that Rey is a Skywalker.  Their ladder is quite long, possibly never ending.

Ohtze's original analysis put a lot of weight into the bridal carry, which, of course, is evocative of a Phantom of the Opera/one sided relationship.  My personal belief is that the bridal carry was a holdover from the Jedi Killer phase of the script.  And JJ simply kept the scene.

@Gemlake

If I recall, the Bridal Carry was a late-add by JJ.  At the very least, I don't think it was in the shooting script or novelizations. So, while it was certainly another data point pointing to Reylo, it probably shouldn't have been used as the definitive moment to determine how Reylo was going to play out.

@ISeeAnIsland

From what I recall, I think Rey was orginally supposed to fall off screen when Kylo rendered her unconscious (so he wasn’t supposed to catch her), but he was always supposed to carry her to his ship which is what Han and Finn see. That makes sense because Han and Finn’s reactions are important (Han sees his son and Finn sees Rey being taken).

@Kessel

I think you're correct on that. I think I misremembered the details on that.

@ISeeAnIsland

I recall that from the novelization actually. She drops offscreen and is then carried onto the ship.

Also, didn't Rian move to San Francisco for 6 months to work with the story group? He claims they were cool as long as he didn't disturb canon, but it seems excessive for just that. Couldn't he have just sent them the script afterwards to look for continuity errors? What is the point of spending half a year with these people, who according to other authors have a great amount of say over the stories? Like the story group would just go "u wanna kill Luke Skywalker, ok that's cool, u do u." I mean really.

californiagirl wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

Kessel wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

Gemlake wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

Saracene wrote:Just wanted to add, the reason we're residing in our little echo chamber here is because we actually take romantic love as a serious story element and not a silly frivolous thing that's only relevant to shippers and tumblr fangirls. It's impossible to overstate the sheer cringe factor that's often associated with the romance in the wider discussions. I know I had to overcome a mental block of sorts in order to discuss romantic Reylo in an open matter-of-fact manner in the other corners of the internet.

@Saracene
Oh, I'm endlessly amused that despite two years of being called delusional fangirls Rian et al. obviously considered romantic attachment to be a very real and impactful story element. 

Today I was reminiscing a bit about Death and the Maiden's initial predictions surrounding Kylo's one-sided obsession and Rey choosing the "nice guy" after her cautionary tale with the sensual villain. The irony is this is now what the antis are clinging to as a story. The very first popular Reylo meta is the best they can hope for, and it's already 100% nonsense given the fact that Rey clearly has deep feelings for Ben. Her vision gives her this look of wonder and a single tear falls down her face. She just saw Kylo killing Snoke? Sure, Jan. 

It's like they've had to slowly climb up the rungs of a ladder, accepting each step as it came to them. Funny for a bunch of geniuses who were adamant that Kylo would never develop feelings for the girl he envied and feared. Now he's making "I'm just a girl" confessions and the only thing they can cling to is retcon and the Skywalker line being wiped out. HAHAHA.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Then there are those who still strongly believe that Rey is a Skywalker.  Their ladder is quite long, possibly never ending.

Ohtze's original analysis put a lot of weight into the bridal carry, which, of course, is evocative of a Phantom of the Opera/one sided relationship.  My personal belief is that the bridal carry was a holdover from the Jedi Killer phase of the script.  And JJ simply kept the scene.

@Gemlake

If I recall, the Bridal Carry was a late-add by JJ.  At the very least, I don't think it was in the shooting script or novelizations. So, while it was certainly another data point pointing to Reylo, it probably shouldn't have been used as the definitive moment to determine how Reylo was going to play out.

@ISeeAnIsland

From what I recall, I think Rey was orginally supposed to fall off screen when Kylo rendered her unconscious (so he wasn’t supposed to catch her), but he was always supposed to carry her to his ship which is what Han and Finn see. That makes sense because Han and Finn’s reactions are important (Han sees his son and Finn sees Rey being taken).

@Kessel

I think you're correct on that. I think I misremembered the details on that.

@ISeeAnIsland

I recall that from the novelization actually. She drops offscreen and is then carried onto the ship.

Also, didn't Rian move to San Francisco for 6 months to work with the story group? He claims they were cool as long as he didn't disturb canon, but it seems excessive for just that. Couldn't he have just sent them the script afterwards to look for continuity errors? What is the point of spending half a year with these people, who according to other authors have a great amount of say over the stories? Like the story group would just go "u wanna kill Luke Skywalker, ok that's cool, u do u." I mean really.

@californiagirl

Wow, I didn’t know Rian moved to SF for six months specifically for that. If he truly had free reign, I highly doubt he needed a daily working environment with them unless it was a truly collaborative effort.

And LOL at them being just totally cool with Luke Skywalker being killed off, as if it’s just another run of the mill decision Rian made.

Sure, Jan...

IoJovi wrote:

californiagirl wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

Kessel wrote:

ISeeAnIsland wrote:

Gemlake wrote:

FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

Saracene wrote:Just wanted to add, the reason we're residing in our little echo chamber here is because we actually take romantic love as a serious story element and not a silly frivolous thing that's only relevant to shippers and tumblr fangirls. It's impossible to overstate the sheer cringe factor that's often associated with the romance in the wider discussions. I know I had to overcome a mental block of sorts in order to discuss romantic Reylo in an open matter-of-fact manner in the other corners of the internet.

@Saracene
Oh, I'm endlessly amused that despite two years of being called delusional fangirls Rian et al. obviously considered romantic attachment to be a very real and impactful story element. 

Today I was reminiscing a bit about Death and the Maiden's initial predictions surrounding Kylo's one-sided obsession and Rey choosing the "nice guy" after her cautionary tale with the sensual villain. The irony is this is now what the antis are clinging to as a story. The very first popular Reylo meta is the best they can hope for, and it's already 100% nonsense given the fact that Rey clearly has deep feelings for Ben. Her vision gives her this look of wonder and a single tear falls down her face. She just saw Kylo killing Snoke? Sure, Jan. 

It's like they've had to slowly climb up the rungs of a ladder, accepting each step as it came to them. Funny for a bunch of geniuses who were adamant that Kylo would never develop feelings for the girl he envied and feared. Now he's making "I'm just a girl" confessions and the only thing they can cling to is retcon and the Skywalker line being wiped out. HAHAHA.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Then there are those who still strongly believe that Rey is a Skywalker.  Their ladder is quite long, possibly never ending.

Ohtze's original analysis put a lot of weight into the bridal carry, which, of course, is evocative of a Phantom of the Opera/one sided relationship.  My personal belief is that the bridal carry was a holdover from the Jedi Killer phase of the script.  And JJ simply kept the scene.

@Gemlake

If I recall, the Bridal Carry was a late-add by JJ.  At the very least, I don't think it was in the shooting script or novelizations. So, while it was certainly another data point pointing to Reylo, it probably shouldn't have been used as the definitive moment to determine how Reylo was going to play out.

@ISeeAnIsland

From what I recall, I think Rey was orginally supposed to fall off screen when Kylo rendered her unconscious (so he wasn’t supposed to catch her), but he was always supposed to carry her to his ship which is what Han and Finn see. That makes sense because Han and Finn’s reactions are important (Han sees his son and Finn sees Rey being taken).

@Kessel

I think you're correct on that. I think I misremembered the details on that.

@ISeeAnIsland

I recall that from the novelization actually. She drops offscreen and is then carried onto the ship.

Also, didn't Rian move to San Francisco for 6 months to work with the story group? He claims they were cool as long as he didn't disturb canon, but it seems excessive for just that. Couldn't he have just sent them the script afterwards to look for continuity errors? What is the point of spending half a year with these people, who according to other authors have a great amount of say over the stories? Like the story group would just go "u wanna kill Luke Skywalker, ok that's cool, u do u." I mean really.

@californiagirl

Wow, I didn’t know Rian moved to SF for six months specifically for that. If he truly had free reign, I highly doubt he needed a daily working environment with them unless it was a truly collaborative effort.

And LOL at them being just totally cool with Luke Skywalker being killed off, as if it’s just another run of the mill decision Rian made.

Sure, Jan...

@IoJovi

The writing process took six months, Rian was with the story group for three in San Francisco. That's still a pretty long time just to be like "do what you want, do we look like we care." It's their JOB to care.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/22/movies/star-wars-last-jedi-women-run-universe.html