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@reylo1992 I guess! I would've thought theoretical physicists would be a little more able to pick up on things which happen at a subtext or subatomic level. Physics is the most imaginative and romantic of the physical sciences after astronomy. Or at least if he's in that discipline, he would've read Richard Feynman (very famous theoretical physicists) memoir about the ill-fated love affair with his first wife, who died from tuberculosis. But he appears to sincerely believe after seeing that movie that they're siblings!

snufkin wrote:@reylo1992 I guess! I would've thought theoretical physicists would be a little more able to pick up on things which happen at a subtext or subatomic level. Physics is the most imaginative and romantic of the physical sciences after astronomy. Or at least if he's in that discipline, he would've read Richard Feynman (very famous theoretical physicists) memoir about the ill-fated love affair with his first wife, who died from tuberculosis. But he appears to sincerely believe after seeing that movie that they're siblings!

@snufkin

I get the feeling this is illustrative of the difference between 'intelligence' and 'wisdom'

Armadeus wrote:

snufkin wrote:@reylo1992 I guess! I would've thought theoretical physicists would be a little more able to pick up on things which happen at a subtext or subatomic level. Physics is the most imaginative and romantic of the physical sciences after astronomy. Or at least if he's in that discipline, he would've read Richard Feynman (very famous theoretical physicists) memoir about the ill-fated love affair with his first wife, who died from tuberculosis. But he appears to sincerely believe after seeing that movie that they're siblings!

@snufkin

I get the feeling this is illustrative of the difference between 'intelligence' and 'wisdom'

@Armadeus

Exactly!

@moonlight13 @armadeus - ha, probably!

You know what's really funny about these type of comments? There are so many fans feeling smug/superior to upset OT purists/Luke fanboys who then turn around and complain about a certain relationship. And more to the point, feel like they have to constantly tell those of us who've been curious about the dynamics of this relationship as the throughline for the ST because somehow we're doing Star Wars or feminism wrong. Nevermind what the filmmakers and actors have said about the film and the characters. To paraphrase Obi-Wan, who's the fool? The fool who spends 2 years theorizing about Rey Skywalker/Rey Solo/Rey the Stereotypical Strong Female Character? Or the fool who sees the movie which blows all of those theories away and then doubles down on complaining about the fans whose ideas weren't disproved/supported?

SheLitAFire wrote:

BenRey wrote:

Atenais wrote:

SheLitAFire wrote:I responded to that tweet! I LITERALLY just signed up for Twitter a  hour ago so I could follow Emo Kylo Ren haha

@SheLitAFire

Emo Kylo Ren is life.

@Atenais

I saw antis complaining about that account. Calling it reylo friendly and unfollowing.

@BenRey

Oh they unfollowed a silly page on Twitter? Wow, they're really making an impact in the world.

@SheLitAFire

I KNOW! Kkkkkkkk... I was thinking the same. I confess that being a newbie in the Reylo fandom I didn't know much about fandom war and antis, etc. But yesterday I saw a pic of a girl giving the middle finger to a toy box of Kylo and Rey dolls, with the caption "I hate Reylo". I couldn't be angry at all, because it was so stupid. That person realize that she was giving her finger to TOYS? That was so stupid that I had to laugh.

@snufkin

His name is Marcelo Gleiser and he's a teacher at Dartmouth College. Despite him being pretty clueless about the romantic drama, I liked how he pointed the theme of "failure" in the movie. His review was naive, but positive.

Cue NBC shooting star THE MORE YOU KNOW lol

Mark said it best.

SheLitAFire wrote:

Cue NBC shooting star THE MORE YOU KNOW lol

@SheLitAFire

I love John more by the day.

BenRey wrote:I heard director Spike Jonze ships them. He was on the DGA podcast with Rian.

@BenRey

"The spine of the whole movie for me was the conversations with each other and their relationship and where it goes."

Kylo Rey wrote:

BenRey wrote:I heard director Spike Jonze ships them. He was on the DGA podcast with Rian.

@BenRey

"The spine of the whole movie for me was the conversations with each other and their relationship and where it goes."

@Kylo Rey

What podcast?

Maria Antonietta wrote:

Kylo Rey wrote:

BenRey wrote:I heard director Spike Jonze ships them. He was on the DGA podcast with Rian.

@BenRey

"The spine of the whole movie for me was the conversations with each other and their relationship and where it goes."

@Kylo Rey

What podcast?

@Maria Antonietta

https://m.soundcloud.com/thedirectorscut/star-wars-the-last-jedi-with-rian-johnson-and-spike-jonze-ep-123

Maria Antonietta wrote:

Kylo Rey wrote:

BenRey wrote:I heard director Spike Jonze ships them. He was on the DGA podcast with Rian.

@BenRey

"The spine of the whole movie for me was the conversations with each other and their relationship and where it goes."

@Kylo Rey

What podcast?

@Maria Antonietta

OMG, Spike Jonze is one of my favorite directors of all time. And I definitely saw some nods to Adaptation. and Her in TLJ.

The part where they briefly discuss Rey and Kylo starts at 10:20 and Spike's comment is around 12:33.

vaderito wrote:The part where they briefly discuss Rey and Kylo starts at 10:20 and Spike's comment is around 12:33.

@vaderito

Bless you

@Atenais - naive but positive really is the best way to describe his conclusions about their relationship. I did like the essay otherwise.

Huh, so in the discussion with Spike Jonze, he makes a point of saying that he got the idea about what to write based on watching the scenes between those two characters/actors during the post-production phase. Meaning, he came up with the idea 3 years ago and went through the same thought process nearly everybody here went through.

Piper Maru wrote:

Maria Antonietta wrote:

Kylo Rey wrote:

BenRey wrote:I heard director Spike Jonze ships them. He was on the DGA podcast with Rian.

@BenRey

"The spine of the whole movie for me was the conversations with each other and their relationship and where it goes."

@Kylo Rey

What podcast?

@Maria Antonietta

OMG, Spike Jonze is one of my favorite directors of all time. And I definitely saw some nods to Adaptation. and Her in TLJ.

@Piper Maru

I have never seen Her, but OMG, Adaptation is one of my favorite movies of all time. It is so wonderfully specific and the humor and emotions in it are incredible.

The top tweet is by one of the hosts of the FanGirls Going Rogue podcast.

Hanleia fans that don't want Ben redeemed are a weird bunch.

BenRey wrote:The top tweet is by one of the hosts of the FanGirls Going Rogue podcast.

Hanleia fans that don't want Ben redeemed are a weird bunch.

@BenRey
Clearly the problem is Reylo. They don't want Reylo to happen so suddenly, Kylo is irredeemable and should burn in force hell.
But I'm glad thats not the story we're getting.

Kylo Rey wrote:

Maria Antonietta wrote:

Kylo Rey wrote:

BenRey wrote:I heard director Spike Jonze ships them. He was on the DGA podcast with Rian.

@BenRey

"The spine of the whole movie for me was the conversations with each other and their relationship and where it goes."

@Kylo Rey

What podcast?

@Maria Antonietta

https://m.soundcloud.com/thedirectorscut/star-wars-the-last-jedi-with-rian-johnson-and-spike-jonze-ep-123

@Kylo Rey

Spike:Any ideas for episode 9 because it still seems their relationship is at the core of it
Rian: yeahh absolutely

The thing is that yes, when it comes to the current state of society and politics, I am also fed the H*ll up with the status quo and who gets to be centered/redeemed based on their privilege. That said, this is a fictional character and not a Punch and Judy stand-in for the real world Tiki Torch bearing douchebags we should be going after. It's a fictional character who a lot of fans identify with for various reasons - estrangement from family, mental illness or addiction issues, abandonment issues, being Other in terms of sexuality, religion, et cetera.  Also a fictional character who very much references the Biblical Parable of the Prodigal Son, which is about how nobody, no matter how far gone into Darkness they may be, is beyond Grace or being allowed back into the family of Man should they show atonement/wish to rejoin.

Also this whole line of "F**k Kylo" thought is where I think, "Jesus, what are those fans like on jury duty?" Or if they've ever been through a situation with somebody who's gone too far down the Dark Path? Like I currently have old family friends I've been close with my entire life where one member (the father) is entangled with a cult where he's too scared to leave and at the same time and part of the fallout one of his kids (who's already prone to depression/anxiety) has fallen off the deep end into a major episode with substance abuse issues. And right now, they know that they've fucked up and that they have people in their lives rooting for them who want them to change (leave the cult for dad, go to rehab for the kid). But neither one of them is doing sh*t about it, but they've been told that they have people who expect/hope for better from them. And yes, you have to have your boundaries of what you will/won't put up with from people when they've trapped themselves in those situations. Which is what Rey does with Ben, but from the expression on her face it wasn't "F**k you, we're done and finished." She's hurt/disappointed and he knows he screwed up. There's something still there, but he has to make the decision himself. She can't save him (also the lesson of why Luke failed with him b/c of the hubris over saving his father). That's how I read the character, not as a strawman for another type of real world character, where in that case I prefer to direct my actual energies on fighting against them. Or to follow Rose's advice, fighting for what you love not destroying what you hate. It's too bad some of those fans can't see that part.

snufkin wrote:The thing is that yes, when it comes to the current state of society and politics, I am also fed the H*ll up with the status quo and who gets to be centered/redeemed based on their privilege. That said, this is a fictional character and not a Punch and Judy stand-in for the real world Tiki Torch bearing douchebags we should be going after. It's a fictional character who a lot of fans identify with for various reasons - estrangement from family, mental illness or addiction issues, abandonment issues, being Other in terms of sexuality, religion, et cetera. Also a fictional character who very much references the Biblical Parable of the Prodigal Son, which is about how nobody, no matter how far gone into Darkness they may be, is beyond Grace or being allowed back into the family of Man should they show atonement/wish to rejoin.

Also this whole line of "F**k Kylo" thought is where I think, "Jesus, what are those fans like on jury duty?" Or if they've ever been through a situation with somebody who's gone too far down the Dark Path? Like I currently have old family friends I've been close with my entire life where one member (the father) is entangled with a cult where he's too scared to leave and at the same time and part of the fallout one of his kids (who's already prone to depression/anxiety) has fallen off the deep end into a major episode with substance abuse issues. And right now, they know that they've fucked up and that they have people in their lives rooting for them who want them to change (leave the cult for dad, go to rehab for the kid). But neither one of them is doing sh*t about it, but they've been told that they have people who expect/hope for better from them. And yes, you have to have your boundaries of what you will/won't put up with from people when they've trapped themselves in those situations. Which is what Rey does with Ben, but from the expression on her face it wasn't "F**k you, we're done and finished." She's hurt/disappointed and he knows he screwed up. There's something still there, but he has to make the decision himself. She can't save him (also the lesson of why Luke failed with him b/c of the hubris over saving his father). That's how I read the character, not as a strawman for another type of real world character, where in that case I prefer to direct my actual energies on fighting against them. Or to follow Rose's advice, fighting for what you love not destroying what you hate. It's too bad some of those fans can't see that part.

@snufkin
If I had to look into the faces of the young men and women I see at work on a daily basis and tell them, yes I know you were mentally, physically, or sexually abused as a child but because you made some bad decisions in life as a result of what happened to you that you are worthless and not worth redeeming then I shouldn't be working where I work. Kylo is a symbol of the angry youth. Each of the kids I work with will ultimately have to save themselves in this world. They will have to find the way to let go of the past and the pain and make the next step forward in life but it doesn't mean as a society we should just give up on them. If they wanted Kylo to be this evil bad guy they should NEVER have given him the backstory they did. Because by just making him this evil worthless bad guy the message you send to all lost youth in today's society is a really really bad one.

@whisperingwillow Absolutely. I had two very close friends in college (one I'm still good friends with) who were both in the juvenile justice system as teenagers. And they both had issues related to their parents divorces, parental neglect, drug abuse, rape et cetera. And they both managed to work their ways through it (with the prodding of their probation officers) to come out at the other end as high achieving students and probably two of the kindest, most supportive friends when I was going through a lot of my own growing pains. So yes, I'm absolutely with you on that point because that's the type of person I see this character to be. So yes, just writing it off as a character who's "evil and worthless" - that's maybe not the point?

@snufkin I definitely don't think the point of Kylo's character will ever be that he is "evil and worthless". If they wanted that then there was absolutely no need to make him a conflicted character. I think the point of Kylo's character will ultimately be about standing on his own two feet and finding his way home. At least that is what I hope.

I'm sorry but why are those butthurt tweets/Instagrams relevant? Are those people from LF? Do they participate in decision making? If answer is No to all than who cares that they are reeling cause their headcanons suffered a blow. They are still in Denial about where the story's going after 2 years and a clear misfire with TLJ prediction.